Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Fenriraga]

Also, you in regards to the Geno topic, I can tell you as one of his "fanatics" that I get it. Really, I do.

I'm a massive Square nut, I'm probably more invested in the majority of their series than any other company on my radar besides Nintendo. Yet despite how much I would lose my mind over Neku, or Terra, Or 2B, Or even Sora as much as I'm begrudging to admitting it (I still love KH to death), Geno still tops them all for me.

Which is funny, because Seven Stars isn't even my favorite Mario RPG. It's probably third, behind TTYD and Superstar Saga. But there's still something about Geno that just CLICKS with me.

I think being a fan of Mario's RPGs are a big factor. TTYD is my favorite game of all time, and I can probably guarantee you 90% of Geno's supporters love the other RPG games as well. I guess Geno was really just the spark of creativity and character that helped kick start the other Mario RPGs, honestly.

Like, Geno was SUCH a weird concept at the time. Sure, he fits well enough in the Mario universe, but compared to all the characters that came before him in other Mario games, he's easily the most out there, him and Mallow both. He represents both Mario kind of breaking out of his traditional mold, which gave way for some many games after, and also as a perfect crossover character.

He is literally the love child of Mario and Final Fantasy, the perfect hybrid of the two. That, and I still can't get over how much I love the idea of a toy being given life, and all those cheap gimmicks people used to get people to buy action figures like Rocket Arms and such being used as actual attacks. It's great. Though I certainly can understand why other Square reps might get in beforehand.

Honestly I find it kinda funny that people think that a one shot character that wasn't even the main character of his debut and only prominent role, to be more important or with magically increased chances due to the fanatical fanbase than the protagonists of many historical series from SE which I'm quite sure have a better chance of appearing due to bringing new worlds to Smash.

Because that one character is tied to a franchise that is arguably bigger than most of Square's library combined. At least at the time of Mario RPG's launch.

Though you're not wrong.

 

[ZelDan]

I know LBP is basically impossible, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt seeing a character with a similar gimmick to Sackboy.

So a Nintendo character that is level-creator based?

Spoiler

Holy crap guys Mario should be in Smash!

 

[Deleted member]

2B > Geno
Sora > Geno
Lara > Geno
Chrono Trigger > Geno
Countless FF characters > Geno
Octopath Traveler > Geno
Even other characters from Super Mario RPG > Geno

I could go on, but Geno does not remotely come to mind when I think of Square Enix's library or bringing new worlds to Smash. Sorry.

Girl, what a spicy post that started my day.

Y'all can kill me now coz I second this take. The Geno thread is gonna be out for my blood.

Why? Not only do I have the lleeeeaaassstt amount of connection to the game, I haven't even played it for me to be remotely attached to the character. Square Enix has a craaaappppptoooonnn of IPs waiting to be utilized at the basement. All of them would rock compared to this guy. Yes, 2B will absolutely rock in Smash. Would definitely want to see that. You could add Sora just to make the fanbase shut up (geez if he gets in I gotta see HMK's reaction he's gonna flip). Any other one is fine in my book.

But yeah. He's too overrated. Give others a chance. Though if he does get in, good for y'all.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly I feel bad for Geno fans as Square didn't even put him in **** like Mario Hoops or Fortune Street showing that not even the people who can do anything with Geno care

 

[Fenriraga]

I think the reason Geno fans might come off as "fanatics" to most is because, for better and for worse, we've been closer to getting him than almost any other character who isn't in already, to the extent of what Sakurai has revealed overtime.

The one (?) time Sakurai has talked about Geno, he firmly established 3 things:

1. He wanted Geno in Brawl, and possibly Smash 4
2. He's aware of the demand for him
3. That he thinks Geno would fit in well in Smash.

That is literally three bases covered: Popularity, transitioning as a fighter, and Sakurai's own experience with the "franchise"/character. Yet he never happened, and we'll likely never know why, not definitively, anyway.

I think the obvious answer is Square- rightfully so, might I clarify- is more focused on promoting franchises that have actual relevance and popularity to them. There's no shortage of Mario representation, after all.

It just... It eats away at my brain sometimes. Knowing that a character you really do care about has been so close to making it. That's part of what makes us tick so much. That all the jokes of relevancy and such would have potentially been shut down over a decade ago as we eventually made way for FF and DQ, but clearly, something is in the way. And we will NEVER know what. It's just words at the end of the day, maybe he was glorifying the situation, who knows. But it's still something that makes me tick.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think the reason Geno fans might come off as "fanatics" to most is because, for better and for worse, we've been closer to getting him than almost any other character who isn't in already, to the extent of what Sakurai has revealed overtime.

The one (?) time Sakurai has talked about Geno, he firmly established 3 things:

1. He wanted Geno in Brawl, and possibly Smash 4
2. He's aware of the demand for him
3. That he thinks Geno would fit in well in Smash.

That is literally three bases covered: Popularity, transitioning as a fighter, and Sakurai's own experience with the "franchise"/character. Yet he never happened, and we'll likely never know why.

I think the obvious answer is Square- rightfully so, might I clarify- is more focused on promoting franchises that have actual relevance and popularity to them. There's no shortage of Mario representation, after all.

It just... It eats away at my brain sometimes. Knowing that a character you really do care about has been so close to making it. That's part of what makes us tick so much. That all the jokes of relevancy and such would have potentially been shut down over a decade ago, but clearly, something is in the way. And we will NEVER know what.

I mean. It's clearly that Square just doesn't want to negotiate for Geno as a character

 

[3BitSaurus]

I thought it was kinda established that the "bringing new worlds to Smash" things came from a mistranslation? Or am I remembering things wrong?

Either way, seeing people argue historical relevance of franchises above all else in the Newcomer Thread makes me think I stumbled into a weird alternate dimension. Isn't this the same place where people argued Rabbids over Ezio and AC?

Say what you will about Geno being a one-off character and whatnot, but after we got , I simply can't bring myself to say it's impossible. There's his Spirit holding him back (and I'm personally betting on the Sans treatment for him), but otherwise? Yeah, fan demand can go a long way.

If I'm being honest, between Sora, 2B or him, I'd be happy anyway, so...

 

[Deleted member]

Every choice by SE can be good for me. I just want Geno most because of nostalgia, damn his importance or relevance.

 

[Poopyhead]

Are you implying that politics have any substance, let alone on a site made for grown men by grown men about a children's party game?
There are boards here for more serious discussion such as politics, I think.

It does have substance because it's completely relevant to speculation. On the Smash Ballot they had: Name of character, Game character is from, and your gender (m/f). While I'm aware anyone can mark M or F, I can't imagine they asked that without having the intention of learning what characters are popular among women, considering as I said it's hard to gather that data when the vocal fanbase is so predominantly male.

Demographics are far more than "just politics," especially when we're discussing the production and distribution of new content based heavily on fan demand. I'd appreciate it if you'd not drown out our opinions by disregarding it all as just politics.

 

[Deleted member]

It does have substance because it's completely relevant to speculation. On the Smash Ballot they had: Name of character, Game character is from, and your gender (m/f). While I'm aware anyone can mark M or F, I can't imagine they asked that without having the intention of learning what characters are popular among women, considering as I said it's hard to gather that data when the vocal fanbase is so predominantly male.

Demographics are far more than "just politics," especially when we're discussing the production and distribution of new content based heavily on fan demand. I'd appreciate it if you'd not drown out our opinions by disregarding it all as just politics.

Damn it I just want to take a break from it. We all know how toxic that went, so I'd say you may wanna hold it off for the moment.

Sorry, not gonna reply.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Girl, what a spicy post that started my day.

Y'all can kill me now coz I second this take. The Geno thread is gonna be out for my blood.

Why? Not only do I have the lleeeeaaassstt amount of connection to the game, I haven't even played it for me to be remotely attached to the character. Square Enix has a craaaappppptoooonnn of IPs waiting to be utilized at the basement. All of them would rock compared to this guy. Yes, 2B will absolutely rock in Smash. Would definitely want to see that. You could add Sora just to make the fanbase shut up (geez if he gets in I gotta see HMK's reaction he's gonna flip). Any other one is fine in my book.

But yeah. He's too overrated. Give others a chance. Though if he does get in, good for y'all.

"Geno is overrated because I haven't played his game and I like other characters more than him."

Oh what a take, what a lovely take!

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Honestly I find it kinda funny that people think that a one shot character that wasn't even the main character of his debut and only prominent role, to be more important or with magically increased chances due to the fanatical fanbase than the protagonists of many historical series from SE which I'm quite sure have a better chance of appearing due to bringing new worlds to Smash.

Yeah, it's hard to explain rationally why Geno is so popular. I think it might be a reason why so many clashes happened in the past between Geno fans and other parts of the community. Most people who participate in Smash speculation are looking for rational clues, trying to link the dots to create a cohesive argument but Geno fans just love the character and they happen to want him in Smash.

Just to be clear, i wasn't trying to say that Geno was more important or more likely than other SE reps in my previous post*. I just wanted to point out how much the criterias seem to be different in his case.

*Well, except when i compared his chances with Crono's.

I just want Geno most because of nostalgia, damn his importance or relevance.

This pretty much sums up exactly what i was trying to explain lol.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Yeah, it's hard to explain rationally why Geno is so popular. I think it might be a reason why so many clashes happened in the past between Geno fans and other parts of the community. Most people who participate in Smash speculation are looking for rational clues, trying to link the dots to create a cohesive argument but Geno fans just love the character and they happen to want him in Smash.

Just to be clear, i wasn't trying to say that Geno was more important or more likely than other SE rep in my previous post. I just wanted to point out how the much the criterias seem to be different in his case.

I guess in the end we keep trying to rationalize why characters were chosen, but as far as third parties go, the one thing linking them all together is that they just come from good games.

It's funny how much we run around in circles when you think about that lol.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah, it's hard to explain rationally why Geno is so popular. I think it might be a reason why so many clashes happened in the past between Geno fans and other parts of the community. Most people who participate in Smash speculation are looking for rational clues, trying to link the dots to create a cohesive argument but Geno fans just love the character and they happen to want him in Smash.

Just to be clear, i wasn't trying to say that Geno was more important or more likely than other SE rep in my previous post. I just wanted to point out how much the criterias seem to be different in his case.


This pretty much sums up what i was trying to explain lol.

Oh the reason Geno became popular is simple, Forest Maze became a meme back in the day and people bandwagonned Geno due to the connection in that one video, Geno's fanbase died off quite a bit but then the mii costume happened, revigorating the fanbase significsntly

 

[Evil Trapezium]

The reason I like Geno is because he has a gun for a hand and he wears a blue cape. He's a cool looking character.

 

[Deleted member]

The reason I like Geno is because he has a gun for a hand and he wears a blue cape. He's a cool looking character.

Wooden toy robot powered by a servant of God? Yeah, why not?

 

[GoodGrief741]

Speculating for Square Enix is really an interesting thing. Mostly because all the characters have weird caveats. Sora is technically owned by Disney but the games are made by Square Enix (and their DNA is all over Kingdom Hearts). Lara Croft, on the other hand, is owned by Square Enix but she's a Western character acquired by SE and her games are still developed by a Western studio. And Geno plays by completely different rules, as a character owned by Square Enix but from a Mario game, and if he gets in it won't be by the same criteria that Sora or Lara would get in by, but rather sheer popularity.

2B or Neku seem like the likeliest SE characters with no asterisks, but any of these five could be the one, and we could even have a curveball thrown our way.

 

[cj.]

I'm disappointed that almost no one mentions Bub & Bob when they talk about Square Enix characters
I mean... Bub is even in the first post!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Speculating for Square Enix is really an interesting thing. Mostly because all the characters have weird caveats. Sora is technically owned by Disney but the games are made by Square Enix (and their DNA is all over Kingdom Hearts). Lara Croft, on the other hand, is owned by Square Enix but she's a Western character acquired by SE and her games are still developed by a Western studio. And Geno plays by completely different rules, as a character owned by Square Enix but from a Mario game, and if he gets in it won't be by the same criteria that Sora or Lara would get in by, but rather sheer popularity.

2B or Neku seem like the likeliest SE characters with no asterisks, but any of these five could be the one, and we could even have a curveball thrown our way.

I’ve wanted Neku since Brawl and it kinda feels like he’s being slept on, so thanks for acknowledging him

 

[ChronoBound]

Oh the reason Geno became popular is simple, Forest Maze became a meme back in the day and people bandwagonned Geno due to the connection in that one video, Geno's fanbase died off quite a bit but then the mii costume happened, revigorating the fanbase significsntly

This is surprisingly succinct explanation. I actually grew up with Super Mario RPG, and not only was it the first RPG I ever played, but its still one of my favorite SNES titles ever. Geno never stuck out to me even though I always kept him in my party.

The Forest Maze video was absolutely big back in the day (in general a lot of stuff from this website called Newgrounds drove a lot of memes and internet cultures during the early to mid 2000's).

At the peak of Geno's pre-Brawl popularity, he was at the lower end of the Top 10. The characters that were usually higher than him were the likes of Sonic, Ridley, Diddy Kong, King Dedede, Wolf, Mega Man and Krystal (another character that ended up dissipating after Brawl).

After Brawl's release, Geno's popularity really collapsed (whereas Krystal, it was more of a gradual dissipation as the the post-64 games started to lose relevance, the same sort of thing happened to Dark Samus as well). Bowser Jr., Toad, Waluigi, and Paper Mario were all more popularly requested during the pre-Smash 4 period (whereas during the 2006-2007 pre-Brawl period, the only Mario character that was as requested as Geno was Bowser Jr.).

Geno's resurrection was a result of two things:
1. The Mii costume
2. Sakurai's statements regarding the Mii costume (including a personal endorsement from Sakurai about the character and saying he wanted to make him playable in Brawl).

Geno then really blew up after K. Rool's confirmation (the same happened with Isaac), because it seemed as though Sakurai was going to fulfill every big Smash Bubble request with this title. He did not collapse like Skull Kid and Isaac did, because unlike the latter two he did not receive both an Assist Trophy role and a Mii costume.

It really says something about the newcomer pool at this point when a side character from a game nearly 25 years old is the most wanted character among the most chatty section to the Smash fanbase (and I also wonder how many of these people played and completed Super Mario RPG).

That all being said Geno is the ONLY character I am absolutely confident in that is going to be DLC for Ultimate. He is the only character I would be willing to put money down that he will be a DLC fighter. The absence of the Mii costume thus far, and the announcement of additional DLC are two big neon clues that its going to happen in my eyes (especially with Sakurai outright saying he is a Geno fan).

 

[Fenriraga]

Oh the reason Geno became popular is simple, Forest Maze became a meme back in the day and people bandwagonned Geno due to the connection in that one video, Geno's fanbase died off quite a bit but then the mii costume happened, revigorating the fanbase significsntly

Hey, come on now. That's just insulting to the source material itself. If anything, Mario RPG making it to the Virtual Console is what reignited a lot of the passion for the game.

I know a number of people who considered Mario RPG an honorary FF game even before the rap and all that.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm disappointed that almost no one mentions Bub & Bob when they talk about Square Enix characters
I mean... Bub is even in the first post!

Yeah, there's also them, but they're like Lara Croft sans the Western thing. Being owned by Taito still places them in a weird position.

 

[Plank08]

I want geno because of the threads passion and he has cool moveset potential
And I kinda wanna play super Mario RPG for free

 

[---]

It would take a really good trailer like Duck Hunt or Piranha Plant for me to get behind Geno. His design doesn't appeal to me at all nor do I have nostalgia for the game he co-stared in (or SE as a whole). I feel a lot of arguments for him are vastly overstated or have applied to other characters who haven't made it in either.

That aside I view speculation as mostly dead with ever Rumors/Leaks being more present than ever & Piranha Plant being a thing. For better or for worse, pretty much anything can happen now...except for 4th Parties. lol

 

[3BitSaurus]

That aside I view speculation as mostly dead with ever Rumors/Leaks being more present than ever & Piranha Plant being a thing. For better or for worse, pretty much anything can happen now...except for 4th Parties. lol

Really, I think the last few places untouched by Smash right now are PC-centric games and Sony characters. Probably the only real curveballs we could get at this point, most other characters at least have some form of acknowledgement that they're possible.

 

[Calamitas]

Speaking of speculation in general, I'm probably in the minority that thinks that FP5 is quite likely to be more of a "low-key" character. I mean, roster reveals tend to be front-loaded, and we already got a some pretty big reveals out for this Fighter Pass. Joker was a worldwide big surprise, Hero was one for Japan, and BK was one for the West. And no matter how much history he has, Terry really is a more low-key character already. With three big reveals out of the way, and the promise of more DLC coming, it would be a the perfect time to "sneak in" another less frequently requested character.

 

[Plank08]

It would take a really good trailer like Duck Hunt or Piranha Plant for me to get behind Geno. His design doesn't appeal to me at all nor do I have nostalgia for the game he co-stared in (or SE as a whole). I feel a lot of arguments for him are vastly overstated or have applied to other characters who haven't made it in either.

That aside I view speculation as mostly dead with ever Rumors/Leaks being more present than ever & Piranha Plant being a thing. For better or for worse, pretty much anything can happen now...except for 4th Parties. lol

I feel you, I really didn’t want terry in smash but his reveal trailer won me over

 

[ChronoBound]

That aside I view speculation as mostly dead with ever Rumors/Leaks being more present than ever & Piranha Plant being a thing. For better or for worse, pretty much anything can happen now...except for 4th Parties. lol

Yeah. Anything is now possible. Aside from Piranha Plant, Dark Samus is another character people would have been very shocked to see make the roster in a 2018 title (the thread for her during pre-Smash 4 was quite small). She was killed off for good at the end of Prime 3, and most of her requests for Smash dissipated over the course of the pre-Smash 4 period (most of the Metroid fanbase circled around Ridley to make it in). It was quite miraculous for a character with her background to make it in even as an echo fighter.

What Piranha Plant did do, is throw out the moveset potential argument. If a traditionally immobile Mario enemy can be made into an unique fighter, then most characters could as well with enough creativity.

While there are characters we can ascertain will probably make the roster based on bread crumbs (like Geno for example), there are many that most speculators would not see coming. I mean again, how many thought that Terry would be part of the Fighters Pass?

Even for the base game, the Smash Bubble barely talked about Castlevania, yet it ended up being the first third-party series to get two playable characters, and the biggest song selection after Mega Man.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Wooden toy robot powered by a servant of God? Yeah, why not?

Wait a minute... Robot? I thought he was just a toy puppet though I guess he has metal parts on him.

Speaking of speculation in general, I'm probably in the minority that thinks that FP5 is quite likely to be more of a "low-key" character. I mean, roster reveals tend to be front-loaded, and we already got a some pretty big reveals out for this Fighter Pass. Joker was a worldwide big surprise, Hero was one for Japan, and BK was one for the West. And no matter how much history he has, Terry really is a more low-key character already. With three big reveals out of the way, and the promise of more DLC coming, it would be a the perfect time to "sneak in" another less frequently requested character.

Low-key character? Well I think I know the man who fits that category perfectly.

Everyone: *groans*

Guest: Someone make him shut up about that guy.

Okay fine I was going to say Sgt. Cortez...

 

[NoOtherPersona]

You know I feel if we get more characters individually I feel Geralt from the witcher has a shot if I made a list of western characters that had a chance I'd say
Geralt
Crash or Spyro
Rayman
Master Chief although a game needs to get on switch
Doom Guy although I don't believe his chances
Lara Craft but she's hard to rate because he's owned by Square Enix
And with Japanese companies there are still a few left that haven't gotten in and could very well get something and the ones who have could get more.Falcom could get something and Marvelous or ever owns travis
I think some companies could get more just because they own alot of iconic characters that people would pay money for

Spoiler: Square Enix

We got
2b she's not iconic but she's really popular
Geno smash fans really want him
Chrono he may be another swordsman but he's really cool

Spoiler: Namco

Lloyd is the one I can see happening along with someone from Tekken plus Ms Pacman as a bonus

Spoiler: Capcom

we could compete the street fighter trio which in my eyes included Chun li and we can get a Resident Evil Character or Characters DMC too along with Ace Attorney and maybe a megaman echo

That's all I can think of there's Konami but I don't have faith in them and I'm pretty sure the Guilty Gear guys are gonna get something

 

[Deleted member]

That all being said Geno is the ONLY character I am absolutely confident in that is going to be DLC for Ultimate. He is the only character I would be willing to put money down that he will be a DLC fighter. The absence of the Mii costume thus far, and the announcement of additional DLC are two big neon clues that its going to happen in my eyes (especially with Sakurai outright saying he is a Geno fan).

Pretty much why I bothered betting my account on him. Everything pointed to Geno being deconfirmed with his spirit until post-fighter pass was announced. I'm fairly confident if Sakurai had to choose the next Smash Bubble character, he would go with Geno similarly why he even bothered with Banjo.

 

[Deleted member]

Wait a minute... Robot? I thought he was just a toy puppet though I guess he has metal parts on him.

That toy puppet fires laser beams and rocket arms. He ain't your typical Pinocchio

 

[Sour Supreme]

How would you guys feel about the character from Little Town Hero hypothetically sliding in as a shill pick? Just out of curiosity. I think the game looks pretty good.

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of speculation in general, I'm probably in the minority that thinks that FP5 is quite likely to be more of a "low-key" character. I mean, roster reveals tend to be front-loaded, and we already got a some pretty big reveals out for this Fighter Pass. Joker was a worldwide big surprise, Hero was one for Japan, and BK was one for the West. And no matter how much history he has, Terry really is a more low-key character already. With three big reveals out of the way, and the promise of more DLC coming, it would be a the perfect time to "sneak in" another less frequently requested character.

Hayabusa sure is the main man with Shifty and Brew supposedly having a source saying it's him, but what if they might actually got info that only said the next character is from Koei-Tecmo but never said specifically that it was Hayabusa?

*plays Arena*
Zhao Yun Charges Through!




...but seriously, another Musou related announcement catching people off guard again would be great.

 

[Garteam]

How would you guys feel about the character from Little Town Hero hypothetically sliding in as a shill pick? Just out of curiosity. I think the game looks pretty good.

I'd want to see exactly what they do before they're added to the game. If they've got something to make an interesting moveset out of, I'd be interested.

 

[GoodGrief741]

How would you guys feel about the character from Little Town Hero hypothetically sliding in as a shill pick? Just out of curiosity. I think the game looks pretty good.

I expect Daemon X Machina level of representation at best. If it were a Nintendo project then sure, but I see no reason for Nintendo to go out of their way to back a franchise with zero renown when it could end up on other systems.

 

[Deleted member]

Hayabusa sure is the main man with Shifty and Brew supposedly having a source saying it's him, but what if they might actually got info that only said the next character is from Koei-Tecmo but never said specifically that it was Hayabusa?

*plays Arena*
Zhao Yun Charges Through!




...but seriously, another Musou related announcement catching people off guard again would be great.

Why should we believe Brew and Shifty?

 

[SNEKeater]

How would you guys feel about the character from Little Town Hero hypothetically sliding in as a shill pick? Just out of curiosity. I think the game looks pretty good.

I can see some spirits for the game like happened with Daemon X Machina.
Maybe the protag from LTH could bring cool things, but at this day I would prefer other choices.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

What do y'all think about the Witcher getting a character in smash from what I remember wasn't the witcher 3 an influence for breath of the wild along with many other western open world fantasy games

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

As someone who's a fan that would enjoy Ryu Hayabusa in Smash, I personally dont buy all of the leaks. I just find it fishy how since he appeared on the 5ch leak his expectations rose up pretty high.

Then again, we got Banjo and Ken, who were both on the Grinch leak. I suppose coincidences do happen.