Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[OrpheusTelos]

Unpopular Opinion(?): There won't be and never will be as good of an era as Smash Ultimate's base game speculation moving forward we've gotten a lot of good characters that weren't really controversial but were sure as hell hype and exciting with a good mix of third and first party characters making the speculation a good mix of both which is all I want.

Not to mention the leaks and rumors were a billion times more interesting than what we have now: The Grinch Hoax (Best fake leak ever btw), Character render leaks, Vergeben at his prime, Stage/Character leaks, Sassy Geno (that leak was hilarious), Etc and now is just "oh Sabi said that, Vergeben may be right he may be wrong" and little to no leaks outside of that that's worthy of discussion.

Plus Smash 6? Well there's most likely going to be at least a sizable portion of the roster cut so people would be worried more on their current favorites returning than the perfect balance mentioned with the base game speculation of Ultimate's roster. (Also yes this includes the FP speculation)

As much as I didn't like how centeralized the discussion was on big fan requests (Geno, Isaac, etc), I do admit that the leaks and rumors back then were way more interesting than the 8 billionth Doomguy 4Chan text leak. I remember that one riddle leak that was floating around sometime after E3 and getting a good chuckle out of that, and I just wish we got more crazy **** like that and the Grinch Leak. The closest anything has come to making me laugh as hard as Sassy Geno and that riddle leak is probably that ridiculous belt theory. If you're gonna waste everyone's time with a fake leak, at least make it entertaining

 

[Ovaltine]

The closest anything has come to making me laugh as hard as Sassy Geno and that riddle leak is probably that ridiculous belt theory. If you're gonna waste everyone's time with a fake leak, at least make it entertaining

Wait...

You mean Sandbag redesigned by Tetsuya Nomura with thousands of belts and zippers ISN'T HAPPENING?!

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Don't play these games with me, lmao.
My first post said that FE has too many characters, or other series have too few depending on how you prefer to see it. Which is objective: most series are in the 1-3 characters range, while the pop-culture juggernauts Mario and Pokèmon have around 8-10. FE has even more than Zelda, the other pop-culture juggernaut.
If you know something about statistics, you'll agree with me that FE is what we call an outlier. It definetely has more stuff than the average. Way more stuff, at that. Now if it's FE that has too much or the other series that have too few, that's on you.
That's the extent of what I said in my original post.
But of course, everytime you're doing something less than sucking FE's ****, the mob crew has to come in full swing and attack you, so there it was, your very useful post remarking how opinions are subjective (and even then, FE being an outlier isn't even subjective, as I've explained above).
Then I remarked how with this kind of aggressive psychopolicing you're not going to convert anyone to FE's cause. That wasn't me talking about FE but me talking about you. If people not wanting anymore FE stuff bothers you this much, try to be happy with what you have, which is A LOT.

Now stop trolling.

Yeah, no. Your original point was that either “Fire Emblem had too many characters” or “other series had too few.” That’s an entirely subjective analysis of the situation that has absolutely no bearing on a statistical analysis of the data that leads to the number of Fire Emblem characters being considered an outlier. The statistical analysis of the roster in no way indicates which series have too few or too many characters, and it’s foolish to try to use statistics in trying to validate an objective stance on an entirely subjective issue that data can’t actually tell you anything definitively on.

Yes, Fire Emblem, Pokemon, and Mario can all be outliers if you run a descriptive statistical analysis on the data of “number of reps per series” and use the Interquartile Range X 1.5 + Q3 (value of the third quartile) to determine outliers. The issue, however, is that all that tells you is that you have three “true outlier observations” that reside outside of expected results within the data... nothing more, nothing less. The additional meaning you ascribe to it is entirely subjective. Furthermore, part of statistical analysis is actually considering whether a data point is an outlier or if it has an explanation that determines if it should still be used in data, and the values for characters per series do have an explanation, so I don’t think there’s any good reason at all to identify the number of reps these series have as statistical outliers.

And, frankly, “be happy with what you have” is just condescending and part of the reason you’re getting such heavy pushback, especially when the series in question continues to perform better and Fire Emblem Heroes has earned over $600,000,000 for Nintendo, indicating that it has become more a “cultural touchstone” than you’ve initially implied. There’s no objectivity to the number of reps any series has, so there is no such thing as “enough,” “too many,” or “too few.”

 

[Fenriraga]

Now stop trolling.

My dude, if you ever think Opo of ALL people is trolling, then it's no wonder literally no one here is leveling with what you're saying.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Me when Byleth from Fire Emblem Three Houses is released as a playable DLC character in Super Smash Brothers Ultimate:

this joke seems familiar lol

 

[Impa4Smash]

Real talk. Byleth shouldn’t be in Smash Ultimate.





And that’s because Lorenz Hellman Gloucester and Ferdinand von Aegir are the worthy reps.

 

[Nquoid]

Hypothetical question. If Sakurai had made the decision to make a moveset for Sandbag instead of Piranha Plant and released it as a free bonus character, how much better would that have gone over with the community?

 

[Sour Supreme]

Hypothetical question. If Sakurai had made the decision to make a moveset for Sandbag instead of Piranha Plant and released it as a free bonus character, how much better would that have gone over with the community?

Please no... think of all of the years of pain in those empty eyes... the horrible revenge within him threatening to burst from his every stitch.

 

[DevaAshera]

View attachment 240759 "Just tired of this ****."

"Yup..definitely.."

Real talk. Byleth shouldn’t be in Smash Ultimate.





And that’s because Lorenzo Hellman Gloucester and Ferdinand von Aegir are the worthy reps.

I want to say 'no, because they are crap characters'..but I can't..Fire Emblem Three Houses has no crap characters..

That said, I do think Byleth would be the most interesting moveset-wise..I'm also extremely biased..and doubt my other fav, Bernadetta, would make it in lol
Maybe they'll all get into a Fire Emblem Warriors 2

 

[Impa4Smash]

Hypothetical question. If Sakurai had made the decision to make a moveset for Sandbag instead of Piranha Plant and released it as a free bonus character, how much better would that have gone over with the community?

Probably about the same. People were expecting Isaac, Banjo, Geno, Shadow, Mach Rider, and Ken and then we got Ken, Incineroar, and Piranha Plant. Sandbag wouldn’t have lessened the salt. Though making Sandbag the first playable “Smash” character would be hilarious

 

[Deleted member]

Hypothetical question. If Sakurai had made the decision to make a moveset for Sandbag instead of Piranha Plant and released it as a free bonus character, how much better would that have gone over with the community?

Personally I think it would've gone over a million times better and I have a few reasons for that; A) Smash has grown big enough as to where I think it should get it's own character and I really think the best choice for that is Sandbag. B) People may think that we already have enough Mario Characters even before Piranha Plant so Smash getting it's own character would feel a lot more welcome I think.

There's plenty more reasons I could get into but just having a character for Smash itself as it's grown into this massive crossover feels really welcoming.

 

[Impa4Smash]

I want to say 'no, because they are crap characters'..but I can't..Fire Emblem Three Houses has no crap characters..

That said, I do think Byleth would be the most interesting moveset-wise..I'm also extremely biased..and doubt my other fav, Bernadetta, would make it in lol
Maybe they'll all get into a Fire Emblem Warriors 2

It’s amazing, Three Houses might be the only FE game where I don’t have an intense hatred for a major character. I like them all really.

And FE Warriors 2 would be dope, just as long as it’s not just all characters from the same 3 games lol

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Real talk. Byleth shouldn’t be in Smash Ultimate.





And that’s because Lorenzo Hellman Gloucester and Ferdinand von Aegir are the worthy reps.

Only if Ferdinand von Aegir brings his boyfriend Hubert for his final smash at the very least

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hypothetical question. If Sakurai had made the decision to make a moveset for Sandbag instead of Piranha Plant and released it as a free bonus character, how much better would that have gone over with the community?

Dunno. The SSF2 community found it funny when Sandbag was added, though the character seems to be pretty much ignored now due to how wonky it is.

 

[krokotopia101]

Please no... think of all of the years of pain in those empty eyes... the horrible revenge within him threatening to burst from his every stitch.

Empty eyes this man/woman says.

 

[DevaAshera]

It’s amazing, Three Houses might be the only FE game where I don’t have an intense hatred for a major character. I like them all really.

And FE Warriors 2 would be dope, just as long as it’s not just all characters from the same 3 games lol

Same here..like there were some I thought I'd hate..but then you learn about them through supports and realize they aren't that bad.

Agreed..even if I was fine with the first being three game focused (like Hyrule Warriors was at first, what with being focused on OoT, TP, and SS). I have no doubt a FE Warriors 2 would have all the characters return but add a new 3 game focus (I could see Blazing/Binding, Radiance, and, of course, Three Houses).

 

[TheYungLink]

I forget which Smash game (obv not Ultimate) did this but Sandbag's trophy states that it actually likes being hit. So Sandbag blushing in Home Run Contest or blinking with a happy expression elsewhere has an explanation behind it.

 

[KatKit]

Hypothetical question. If Sakurai had made the decision to make a moveset for Sandbag instead of Piranha Plant and released it as a free bonus character, how much better would that have gone over with the community?

I can't speak for the community, but I can say that I would've been way less excited than I was about Piranha Plant (I loved Plant's addition). Sandbag is a lover, not a fighter. If Smash got an original character with an original moveset, I'd prefer one based off of Dragon King (which is most likely the inspiration for Captain Falcon's moveset). That's what Smash would've been before adding Nintendo characters lol.

 

[Impa4Smash]

Same here..like there were some I thought I'd hate..but then you learn about them through supports and realize they aren't that bad.

Agreed..even if I was fine with the first being three game focused (like Hyrule Warriors was at first, what with being focused on OoT, TP, and SS). I have no doubt a FE Warriors 2 would have all the characters return but add a new 3 game focus (I could see Blazing/Binding, Radiance, and, of course, Three Houses).

I’d love a focus on those 3. Ike not being playable in the first Warriors was a travesty.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

I’d love a focus on those 3. Ike not being playable in the first Warriors was a travesty.

Its mostly because Ike and Roy aren't really popular in japan like that apparently which even they had one chance to get Emblem Warriors right and they messed it up

 

[Sour Supreme]

I forget which Smash game (obv not Ultimate) did this but Sandbag's trophy states that it actually likes being hit. So Sandbag blushing in Home Run Contest or blinking with a happy expression elsewhere has an explanation behind it.

What if he's absorbing the hits, and, dare I say...

Charging his persona.

 

[Calamitas]

Real talk. Byleth shouldn’t be in Smash Ultimate.





And that’s because Lorenzo Hellman Gloucester and Ferdinand von Aegir are the worthy reps.

Only if the latter says "I am Ferdinand von Aegir" when:

• Being selected on the CSS
• Taunting
• Getting KO'd
• Using his Final Smash
• And his victory quotes

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Just imagine if Katalina was #5 and Hitagi was right in that one.

Honestly? I'd be happy in an ironic way, similar to how I'm happy that LeakyPandy was probably right about Dragon Quest content. We've dumped on Hitagi so much it'd be funny to see him actually be right.

 

[Will]

im still on the board that porky is #5 to the day

this may be insomnia talking but trying to counter the porky spirit theory with "he'll be back as a boss" is kind of stupid considering literally every other boss in the smash bros series except him has a spirit in one way or another so that's my hot take

 

[Deleted member]

Petition to shut down comicbook.com for spreading fake leaks!

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Don't play these games with me, lmao.
My first post said that FE has too many characters, or other series have too few depending on how you prefer to see it. Which is objective: most series are in the 1-3 characters range, while the pop-culture juggernauts Mario and Pokèmon have around 8-10. FE has even more than Zelda, the other pop-culture juggernaut.
If you know something about statistics, you'll agree with me that FE is what we call an outlier. It definetely has more stuff than the average. Way more stuff, at that. Now if it's FE that has too much or the other series that have too few, that's on you.
That's the extent of what I said in my original post.
But of course, everytime you're doing something less than sucking FE's ****, the mob crew has to come in full swing and attack you, so there it was, your very useful post remarking how opinions are subjective (and even then, FE being an outlier isn't even subjective, as I've explained above).
Then I remarked how with this kind of aggressive psychopolicing you're not going to convert anyone to FE's cause. That wasn't me talking about FE but me talking about you. If people not wanting anymore FE stuff bothers you this much, try to be happy with what you have, which is A LOT.

If you know something about statistics

Did someone say statistics?

Late to the party like always, but I do know about statistics. At least enough to have a reasonable belief that statistics, at least as you're using them, do not contribute to your argument.

You say that Fire Emblem "has more stuff (I'm assuming you mean characters, stages, items, music, Spirits, etc.) than other series," but the problem with this argument is that it assumes that every series in Smash Bros. is as important as the other. Furthermore, from a cursory glance of the roster, the average content a series gets is going to be pretty low given that a lot of series (especially third parties, which there are many) have only one character, one stage, and no items. In that regard, a lot of series are going to be "outliers," not just Fire Emblem.

I have and will argue that Fire Emblem has taken its spot among them as one of Nintendo's flagship series. The series brought itself from the brink of death, sells consistently well, Heroes has been Nintendo's highest grossing mobile game since it released 2 years ago, Three Houses sold like gangbusters and proved that Fire Emblem is popular, what with all the discussion going on around it. To put it into perspective, only two Nintendo series have gotten Warriors games. Those are the Legend of Zelda and Fire Emblem. The series Nintendo has on mobile right now are Mario (Kart, Dr., Run), Pokémon (Go, Masters), Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem, and Dragalia Lost.

Fire Emblem is certainly large enough to warrant the amount of characters it has. Besides, 1 is a semi-clone, and 2 are literally clones. You can't really complain about additional characters that took little to no effort to make. You're free to not want Fire Emblem characters, but other people are free to want Fire Emblem characters and you ought to respect them and their opinions.

 

[StormC]

Honestly? I'd be happy in an ironic way, similar to how I'm happy that LeakyPandy was probably right about Dragon Quest content. We've dumped on Hitagi so much it'd be funny to see him actually be right.

Hitagi kinda deserves it for talking a big game despite clearly not knowing anything.

"Banjo was never talked about"
"there is no Atlus character"
"Steve is a lock"

Imagine being seen as a reputable insider and having literally everything you claim about Smash be fake. Couldn't be me!

 

[Sour Supreme]

Still haven't seen this alleged leak. Been up all night waiting for that PapaGenos upload.

 

[lady_sky skipper]

I get what you're saying. But I think it also kind of misses the point of why people want these characters to begin with.

Yes, people who think a character making it to Smash means they have a chance at showing up outside of Smash is a tad silly. But as depressing as it is, I kind of look at it more as their farewell party.

Obvious example is obvious, Geno. No way in hell Square will use him at any point anytime soon, Smash or otherwise. If he does make it, I honestly expect it to be the last we see of him.

But that's why I want to see him. A way to, for lack of a better word, validate that, yes, this character isn't worthless. They meant something at one point in time or another. So here's one last hurrah for em. I don't doubt it's how Banjo fans felt before he got revealed.

Aww, that's pretty sweet. It's kinda why I wanna see a Pilotwings character such as Robin or Ibis in a Smash game. It would be their last chance/hurrah for them to shine as video game heroes. As well as any obscure video game character to be honest.

 

[Calamitas]

im still on the board that porky is #5 to the day

this may be insomnia talking but trying to counter the porky spirit theory with "he'll be back as a boss" is kind of stupid considering literally every other boss in the smash bros series except him has a spirit in one way or another so that's my hot take

The problem with that is that Earthbound is already very well off for a series that consists of just three games, and which has also officially been finished for about thirteen years now. The series has two unique fighters, four stages, twenty-six Spirits, and fourteen music tracks, several of which are remixes. There are several series in Smash that wish they had this amount of content. Like, Xenoblade has the exact same amount of games as Earthbound, probably sold better than the series, and yet it only has one fighter, one stage, eleven music tracks of which one is a remix.
And need I remind you that Fighter's Pass characters all come with a new stage, new music, and new Spirits? At this point, what else is there really left to add for Earthbound? And not to be overly anti-Earthbound here, but I think the series has already enough content, if not more than enough. The most I could see would be Ninten making it in as an Echo Fighter, but even that's a stretch.

Still haven't seen this alleged leak. Been up all night waiting for that PapaGenos upload.

Which leak now?

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Still haven't seen this alleged leak. Been up all night waiting for that PapaGenos upload.

He uploaded something yesterday what happened now?

 

[Nquoid]

The one that says Crash is next and Rayman, E Gadd and Bandana Dee are in pass 2

Utterly bizarre "leak" to be covered by mainstream sites. Especially since its NYCC so comicbook.com isnt lacking for news stories...

 

[Sour Supreme]

He uploaded something yesterday what happened now?

The one that says Crash is next and Rayman, E Gadd and Bandana Dee are in pass 2

Utterly bizarre "leak" to be covered by mainstream sites. Especially since its NYCC so comicbook.com isnt lacking for news stories...

What they said. I was mostly joking. I'm sure Papa doesn't see it was a worthy upload. He'll probably talk about it when there are other ridiculous claims to be covered along with it.

 

[DevaAshera]

I’d love a focus on those 3. Ike not being playable in the first Warriors was a travesty.

I know I'm in the Minority on this, but I was fine with both Ike and Roy not being included in Fire Emblem Warriors..I was mostly happy to see Lyn get some spotlight for once and having Celica there was great too.
My only complaint with Fire Emblem Warriors is that the villains weren't playable and, aside from one, all used Robin's moveset..everything else I honestly loved, even characters sharing movesets since then if I liked a moveset but didn't really care for the character, there was always another..for example, I do not like Takumi, but I like Sakura.
Ike definitely seems like a lock for the next game though considering PoR/RD seems like a good fit for one of the games included along with Three Houses..and I kinda believe that, unlike Lyn & Celica, it would be better to include Ike along with his supporting cast and part of the storyline.
I also agree with how they decided to focus on 3 primary games with 2 side characters, easier to get a diverse roster and story focus..and I hope that they decided to do another 3 game focus for FEW2.
If we do get Three Houses, Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn, and Binding/Blazing Blade, some characters I'd love to see..
- Bernadetta, Lysithea, Marianne, and Shamir for Three Houses
- Nephenee, Mia, and Lucia for PoR/RD
- Florina for BB
- I would die happy if we got Eirika & Ephraim as side characters.

The one that says Crash is next and Rayman, E Gadd and Bandana Dee are in pass 2

Utterly bizarre "leak" to be covered by mainstream sites. Especially since its NYCC so comicbook.com isnt lacking for news stories...

That seems..unlikely at best..if only because its two Western 3rd Parties (I doubt we'll get that many..maybe 1 more like Crash..I really don't expect Rayman..ever) and E. Gadd doesn't seem like a character they'd pick for DLC since I doubt that he'd really sell. Base Roster, I could see, but not DLC.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

How would E. Gadd even play?

 

[NoOtherPersona]

The one that says Crash is next and Rayman, E Gadd and Bandana Dee are in pass 2

Utterly bizarre "leak" to be covered by mainstream sites. Especially since its NYCC so comicbook.com isnt lacking for news stories...

Oh so it's not even worth paying attention too

 

[Deleted member]

comicbook.com is the spawn of fake news. It's a must-block for people who want their minds intact.

Honestly these "leaks" are just advertisements to give support for a character to be added in Smash. They need to report the damn facts, not serve as billboards saying, "Support this character!"

 

[Curious Villager]

Honestly these "leaks" are just advertisements to give support for a character to be added in Smash. They need to report the damn facts, not serve as billboards saying, "Support this character!"

That's basically what the purpose of most "leaks" are in a nutshell.

Try and get more people interested in characters they otherwise would have brushed aside, either that, or piggyback off characters that are a popular subject within the Smash community.

We most probably won't be hearing anything too credible until we are closer to Terry's release I suppose...

 

[Deleted member]

That's basically what the purpose of most "leaks" are in a nutshell.

Try and get more people interested in characters they otherwise would have brushed aside, either that, or piggyback off characters that are a popular subject within the Smash community.

We most probably won't be hearing anything too credible until we are closer to Terry's release I suppose...

If they were just ads, shouldn't they be stuff like "Why you should include this character" instead of "This character is going to be included in Smash!". It's basically a determinant to find out who will believe them easily.

If one is the kind of person who shamelessly says these "leaks" are real, my say is:

 

[Curious Villager]

If they were just ads, shouldn't they be stuff like "Why you should include this character" instead of "This character is going to be included in Smash!". It's basically a determinant to find out who will believe them easily.

If one is the kind of person who shamelessly says these "leaks" are real, my say is:

It seems to be more effective to get people to believe that a character has a good chance to happen in order to increase a characters interest over just telling them why they should be in, it would have a bit more of a longer lasting impact for the character. (Whenever it works at least)

At least, that's what I've observed when looking around the community. It's why characters like Chorus Kids and Mach Rider still remained somewhat popular beyond their initial rumours/leaks.