Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[yeet123]

I'm pretty sure if you looked at a release of major games, quite a few of them simply try to sell the consumer on being a good game in and of itself. Not like greed is a new thing in the gaming industry.

theres a difference tho between selling a game like Destiny and selling a game like Star Wars Battlefront. While neither are spectacular, both were marketed very well. However, Battlefront was basically 1/2 a game. thats my point

 

[osby]

So slightly off topic but I wanted your guys' opinions on this:

I think that we are at the end of what is, without a doubt, the worst generation of console gaming. Developers sold buggy, unfinished sections of an entire game and expected their customers to pay $60 or more for "continuously updating" garbage. For a good portion of this generation, AAA companies were under the assumption that single player games were dead, and that selling multiplayer only games with no features was enough. Preorder Bonuses, witholding content for DLC, Lootcrates, and Pay to Win became the norm. Thank God for Sony exclusives, Rockstar, and Nintendo (Switch era).

I'd say it's entirely off-topic. It has nothing to with newcomer speculation.

 

[NintenRob]

Speaking of Skull Kid doing well in that poll, some of us gonna be extra vocal for him tomorrow on Gamefaqs and Reddit, you guys should help

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I am very interested in the nature of future DLC. While I could make predictions on the fighter pack, who knows what the future DLC characters would be like.

Right from the get go, before Joker was revealed, Sakurai said the fighter pack would include a stage and music to go with it. With that knowledge, I predicted all the fighters would have to be from a series not represented in Smash yet. It didn't make sense to me to have a new stage and music for a fighter that came from a series that already had those things. So it had to be all new. And I was right.

However, Sakurai has said nothing about what these future DLC fighters will have. If they don't come with a new stage or music and it's just the fighter alone, perhaps we will be getting characters from familiar series.

I doubt they're going back to familiar series exclusively. You'd be kneecapping Smash's longevity and creativity by doing that, and Sakurai has clearly expressed interest in continuing to expand his crossover, and Nintendo seems to really enjoy the benefits/profits of such continued crossovers.

So slightly off topic but I wanted your guys' opinions on this:

I think that we are at the end of what is, without a doubt, the worst generation of console gaming. Developers sold buggy, unfinished sections of an entire game and expected their customers to pay $60 or more for "continuously updating" garbage. For a good portion of this generation, AAA companies were under the assumption that single player games were dead, and that selling multiplayer only games with no features was enough. Preorder Bonuses, witholding content for DLC, Lootcrates, and Pay to Win became the norm. Thank God for Sony exclusives, Rockstar, and Nintendo (Switch era).

Totally off topic...

But did you just seriously praise Rockstar when they're one of the most guilty ones in this regard with their absolutely ****ing insane microtransactions in GTA Online and Red Dead Redemption 2, which are also pay-to-win. They also released GTA V immediately after it came out on new generation hardware and dropped online support for the older versions. They've also released only those two games this entire generation... Oh yeah, and they work their employees to absolute death with insane crunch periods.

This ain't it chief.

 

[Koopaul]

I doubt they're going back to familiar series exclusively. You'd be kneecapping Smash's longevity and creativity by doing that, and Sakurai has clearly expressed interest in continuing to expand his crossover, and Nintendo seems to really enjoy the benefits/profits of such continued crossovers.

Possibly. We'll have to see. You're probably right, but it was interesting to hear Sakurai imply his main reason to continue to add more fighters was to please the fans. And there are a lot of fighters fans want that are from familiar series. So I don't know.

 

[yeet123]

I'd say it's entirely off-topic. It has nothing to with newcomer speculation.

forgive me for not wanting to see you post about doomguy for the 17th time

 

[lady_sky skipper]

Okay guys, here's my WTF picks:

1st party: Waddle Doo, just because I like the little booger and he would make a good echo fighter for Bandana Dee IMHO.

3rd party: Brian or Jason Wayne from Battle Garegga mostly because we didn't get to see what they looked like until Armed Police Batrider and a person would really work their imaginations to make a good moveset for these guys that references their planes from the game.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Possibly. We'll have to see. You're probably right, but it was interesting to hear Sakurai imply his main reason to continue to add more fighters was to please the fans. And there are a lot of fighters fans want that are from familiar series. So I don't know.

I mean, Sakurai's comments have been more directly tied to the idea of "If I can please one fan with a character inclusion, I have reason to do it" (or something to that effect) and also been that it gives him more opportunities to please fans. It's not really referring to the Smash fan base and the ballot when he says that, just a much more general and unassuming, more characters will please more people.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Eggplant Wizard. That is all.

 

[Nquoid]

So slightly off topic but I wanted your guys' opinions on this:

I think that we are at the end of what is, without a doubt, the worst generation of console gaming. Developers sold buggy, unfinished sections of an entire game and expected their customers to pay $60 or more for "continuously updating" garbage. For a good portion of this generation, AAA companies were under the assumption that single player games were dead, and that selling multiplayer only games with no features was enough. Preorder Bonuses, witholding content for DLC, Lootcrates, and Pay to Win became the norm. Thank God for Sony exclusives, Rockstar, and Nintendo (Switch era).

Maybe try phrasing it asking how these changes in game design and monetisation might have affected the pool of speculation characters?

Like I think a lot of these changes have had a negative effect on the kinds of characters that I have an interest in. Games like Destiny and Anthem with customisable but generic player characters don't really lend themselves to a game like Smash. But then for every one of those we have an Overwatch with a great cast of characters, even if Blizzard ultimately popularised loot boxes with how they implemented into the game.

But also, if the AAA space is frustrating you, the indie space has been fantastic this generation, and I don't think any of my games of the year in the last decade or so have come from AAA studios apart from Nintendo.

 

[GoodGrief741]

So slightly off topic but I wanted your guys' opinions on this:

I think that we are at the end of what is, without a doubt, the worst generation of console gaming. Developers sold buggy, unfinished sections of an entire game and expected their customers to pay $60 or more for "continuously updating" garbage. For a good portion of this generation, AAA companies were under the assumption that single player games were dead, and that selling multiplayer only games with no features was enough. Preorder Bonuses, witholding content for DLC, Lootcrates, and Pay to Win became the norm. Thank God for Sony exclusives, Rockstar, and Nintendo (Switch era).

I guess ****ty games got ****tier and monetization definitely got way worse but there were also some legit amazing games so when I look back on it that's what I'll remember.

And hey, monetization schemes are only gonna get worse so enjoy whatever little reprieve we have 'cause we may not have it for much longer. (Unless loot boxes get outlawed, which could happen and let's hope it does)

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I am very interested in the nature of future DLC. While I could make predictions on the fighter pack, who knows what the future DLC characters would be like.

Right from the get go, before Joker was revealed, Sakurai said the fighter pack would include a stage and music to go with it. With that knowledge, I predicted all the fighters would have to be from a series not represented in Smash yet. It didn't make sense to me to have a new stage and music for a fighter that came from a series that already had those things. So it had to be all new. And I was right.

However, Sakurai has said nothing about what these future DLC fighters will have. If they don't come with a new stage or music and it's just the fighter alone, perhaps we will be getting characters from familiar series.

I'm going to assume it's either one of these three outcomes

1: The outcome you said with characters from familiar series first or third party and there is stuff that supports this. In the random stage select menu, the last spot is taken up by the stage builder button so it could mean that along with the fighters pass, we might just be seeing all the stages on one screen. Plus they did not explain if the additional DLC characters would come with a stage and music added to them. Also Sakurai saying he wants to "keep improving on the record" for characters specifically and the fastest way to do that would be to only release characters from now on.

2: We'll continue to see more third party content. It hasn't specifically said one way or the other that the additional DLC won't follow the same pattern as the fighters pass. There is nothing stopping Sakurai from throwing a wrench in our speculative plans and move the stage builder button to the next screen or add another tab for more stages. There is nothing to say that there won't be anymore stages coming to Smash Bros. Also would Sakurai really add more third party characters from series new to Smash if they didn't come with a stage of their own?

3: A mix of the two, possibly cycling between represented and unrepresented characters.

 

[DevaAshera]

forgive me for not wanting to see you post about doomguy for the 17th time

Then offer up another character..we need to stay on-topic or the thread can risk becoming locked. There is, if I recall, a different Off-Topic Section/Thread you can post in.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think we'll have to wait for the first character after the pass to decide what direction the next wave is taking. If we get someone like say Isaac? It's reasonable to assume that the rest of the Wave 2 DLC will follow the same, Nintendo-Centric fan demanded characters. If it's someone like Doom Slayer? Then it's reasonable to think he's going to follow Fighter Pass 1's suit.

Then there's the possibility that it's ****ing Geno and at that point who the **** knows where it's going because Geno is a ****ing 3rd Party Mario character for ****s sake which should be a paradox if it weren't for weird contractual obligations from the 90's..

 

[Impa4Smash]

Okay, how about this, if Dracula is in the game, can Geralt of Rivia be in the game?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I still think the perfect missed opportunity representative is Krystal. Female character. Would've been the first totally unique Star Fox character. Rare's last original character they made before leaving Nintendo. Represents a very, uh, unique part of Star Fox History and Nintendo History. Big enough fanbase. I really feel like if there were a single Nintendo character that SHOULD'VE made it into Smash Ultimate it was her.

I mean, I think Isaac should've made it in too but at least Krystal has the inability to be called "another anime swordsman"... god I hate that term.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Warning, 1 swear word

Crowd reaction to May and Axl Low trailer pic.twitter.com/zVHqDRL9mM

— Alex Jebailey (@Jebailey) September 30, 2019

I think I found another reason to want Sol. Also has any Smash reveal got the community so pumped to sing along? Smell of the Game is a ****ing banger but I wonder if this is a unique thing

 

[DarthEnderX]

Okay, how about this, if Dracula is in the game, can Geralt of Rivia be in the game?

No, because he's based directly on the Witcher books.

Dracula is public domain at this point and Castlevania isn't really related to the Stoker novel.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I think we'll have to wait for the first character after the pass to decide what direction the next wave is taking. If we get someone like say Isaac? It's reasonable to assume that the rest of the Wave 2 DLC will follow the same, Nintendo-Centric fan demanded characters. If it's someone like Doom Slayer? Then it's reasonable to think he's going to follow Fighter Pass 1's suit.

Then there's the possibility that it's ****ing Geno and at that point who the **** knows where it's going because Geno is a ****ing 3rd Party Mario character for ****s sake which should be a paradox if it weren't for weird contractual obligations from the 90's..

I don't think the first character will definitively tell us what the rest of the characters will be like, one of the speculation community's continuous mistakes is that we don't often account for variety being a priority, instead we always assume that a newcomer's qualities makes other similar characters more likely. Like, after K. Rool was revealed, surely that meant we'd keep getting oldschool fan favorites! Nope, the remaining newcomers were modern characters instead. It's probably a remnant of Smash 4 speculation where most of the newcomers checked a lot of the same boxes, but I feel like we need to let go of that.

If the first character revealed is Isaac, as is your example, all it'd tell us is that 1st party characters and ATs are in the running again, but that doesn't mean the next character will be anything similar, or that we'll no longer get characters like Joker or Terry who came out of the left field. If the first character is a 3rd party, then that probably makes it more likely that the rest of the characters will be 3rd party too considering Sakurai's words and how the Fighters Pass went, but it still wouldn't completely rule out 1st party characters either, we'd need more examples to come to a conclusion imo.

It's worth noting that there's no indication that the additional DLC will be released or advertised as a second Fighters Pass, or any other kind of bundle, at the moment it looks like it's just going to be individual DLC, like Piranha Plant, and as such it doesn't really need to be connected in the same way that the Fighters Pass is. They could do three 3rd party characters and just one 1st party character for all we know, the characters don't really have to share anything in common.

 

[Ben Holt]

Dracula is like Medusa and Hades in the Kid Icarus series.
Anyone is allowed to make a Dracula or Medusa character.

 

[Flyboy]

Warning, 1 swear word

Crowd reaction to May and Axl Low trailer pic.twitter.com/zVHqDRL9mM

— Alex Jebailey (@Jebailey) September 30, 2019

I think I found another reason to want Sol. Also has any Smash reveal got the community so pumped to sing along? Smell of the Game is a ****ing banger but I wonder if this is a unique thing

Imagine Sol being revealed at Evo. I want that entire crowd singing along.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Imagine Sol being revealed at Evo. I want that entire crowd singing along.

Nah they'd be too busy going "Ew! Another anime sword guy! Do not want. Do not want."
*Doesn't pay attention to the fact that he never really unsheathes it.*

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So two theories here.

Regional Theory and Platform Theory.

Regional Theory:
: United States
: Japan
: United Kingdom
Terry Bogard: Latin America

Platform Theory:
: Playstation
: NES
: Nintendo 64
Terry Bogard: Arcade

If true any ideal or isn't broken any takers for the final spot?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So two theories here.

Regional Theory and Platform Theory.

Regional Theory:
: United States
: Japan
: United Kingdom
Terry Bogard: Latin America

Platform Theory:
: Playstation
: NES
: Nintendo 64
Terry Bogard: Arcade

If true any ideal or isn't broken any takers for the final spot?

These theories are always bull****, especially if you try to generalize 1 as Playstation as a whole but go "ooh ooh the Nintendo ones are the individual systems!"

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

So two theories here.

Regional Theory and Platform Theory.

Regional Theory:
: United States
: Japan
: United Kingdom
Terry Bogard: Latin America

Platform Theory:
: Playstation
: NES
: Nintendo 64
Terry Bogard: Arcade

If true any ideal or isn't broken any takers for the final spot?

Why are we still looking for patterns, when past history shows that most theories regarding them crumble over a matter of time?

need I bring up Music Theory? Partner Theory?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ok so I have a genuine question, outside of Box and teeechnically Blog, when have any of these crazy ass theories worked out?

 

[Deleted member]

All right boys I came up with a new theory. I like to call it the ‘consonant-vowel’ theory, as each character in the FP has a name that begins with a consonant, then a vowel (Jo, He, Ba, Te). This means the next character will follow this rule that Sakurai made sure would happen, so Crash Bandicoot is deconfirmed.

 

[Aetheri]

Ok so I have a genuine question, outside of Box and teeechnically Blog, when have any of these crazy *** theories worked out?

You'd be surprised...

 

[soyperson]

All right boys I came up with a new theory. I like to call it the ‘consonant-vowel’ theory, as each character in the FP has a name that begins with a consonant, then a vowel (Jo, He, Ba, Te). This means the next character will follow this rule that Sakurai made sure would happen, so Crash Bandicoot is deconfirmed.

Plans within plans, machinations within machinations... Sakurai truly is a mastermind
/s

 

[Calamitas]

So two theories here.

Regional Theory and Platform Theory.

Regional Theory:
: United States
: Japan
: United Kingdom
Terry Bogard: Latin America

Platform Theory:
: Playstation
: NES
: Nintendo 64
Terry Bogard: Arcade

If true any ideal or isn't broken any takers for the final spot?

If that Platform Theory is true, then his time may have finally come. There is only one console left that really comes to mind.

Spoiler: Fighter Pass 5

The Philips CD-I!
The time for King Harkinian has come at last!

In all seriousness though - what Cutie Gwen said.
Also, how the hell is this regional one even supposed to work? You honestly can't tell me that Joker mostly appeals to the US and that Banjo and Kazooie mostly appeal to the UK. That's just one hell of a massive stretch.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I find it extremely funny when someone tries to point out that Joker was picked for the West or something of that caliber. Persona's main audience is in Japan. Sure Persona 5 introduced more Westerners to the series, but it's undeniable that Japan has always been the main audience for the series. There's a reason why the international release for the Persona games is always after the Japanese release by like a year. Hell, Royal is the new updated version for Persona 5 and once again Westerners will have to wait another year for the game release. It's clear that even Atlus realizes where their main audience is in and where most of their sales come from.

Joker was picked for a myriad of reasons besides "region appeal" (and let's face it Joker is not an international pick when you put what I said above into context), focusing on the regional aspect of a character while ignoring their other strengths isn't a good way to speculate on a character. Sure they might help, but they are by no means the only factors that comes into play when choosing characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, how about this, if Dracula is in the game, can Geralt of Rivia be in the game?

I would say that if the game version differs greatly from the book version and is set apart from other incarnations, most likely yes.

So two theories here.

Regional Theory and Platform Theory.

Regional Theory:
: United States
: Japan
: United Kingdom
Terry Bogard: Latin America

Platform Theory:
: Playstation
: NES
: Nintendo 64
Terry Bogard: Arcade

If true any ideal or isn't broken any takers for the final spot?

Why these theories cherrypick details? If anything Hero would be PS4/Switch/3DS/PS2/NES, Terry would be Neo-Geo and Joker would be PS4. Plus the characters with maybe the exception of Banjo to a certain degree are from franchises that are quite popular in Japan, with some having a lot of related media and merchandise.

 

[KatKit]

I find it extremely funny when someone tries to point out that Joker was picked for the West or something of that caliber. Persona's main audience is in Japan. Sure Persona 5 introduced more Westerners to the series, but it's undeniable that Japan has always been the main audience for the series. There's a reason why the international release for the Persona games is always after the Japanese release by like a year. Hell, Royal is the new updated version for Persona 5 and once again Westerners will have to wait another year for the game release. It's clear that even Atlus realizes where their main audience is in and where most of their sales come from.

Joker was picked for a myriad of reasons besides "region appeal" (and let's face it Joker is not an international pick when you put what I said above into context), focusing on the regional aspect of a character while ignoring their other strengths isn't a good way to speculate on a character. Sure they might help, but they are by no means the only factors that comes into play when choosing characters.

I just want to point out that Persona is a text-heavy game; it takes a long time to translate/localize it properly. Coming out 1 year later isn't uncommon and is a very short amount of time compared to other games in the genre.

*cries in Kiseki*

 

[SvartWolf]

I don't think there is a bad thing to see for patterns, or try to formulate theories in teh sense that you are trying to understand teh criteria of selection between nintendo and sakurai...

For example, it's a pretty common theory that this pass will be all third parties from new franchises... this theory have been speculated since joker reveal and so far seems to be spot on. plus we have soem confirmation from sakurai himself and the like... still it could be proven wrong with the fifth being Edelgard, or a rythm heaven rep, but there is little to think otherwise.

Obviously there is some logic and criteria when choosing characters, the don't simply "roll teh dice" and even if they did, there was a selection criteria for the roll possibilities beforehand.

That being said... a lot of this theories are, with due respect, Utter nonsense...

Like they would limit their selection only for characters that have partners? or thinking that the character color is a decisive factor? yeah.. it's true that there might be some true in the color theory in teh sense that they likely will choose a variety of characters to appeal to a wide array, and therefore selecting diverse characters (Instead of say, a pss with doomguy, master chief, Markus form gear of wars, a soldier for call of duty and the guy for fornite) But stuff like teh character colour, or which colour goes well as a background is stuff that is usually bend for your selection, and not teh other way around. It can provide a "hint" but bet on it and you are going to find that they are as free to take liberties as the next guy.

BTW, i still think that my theory, the "pants theory" is sound as to all teh characters on this pass will be wearing "pants"... so i'm sorry dixie fans /s

Okay, how about this, if Dracula is in the game, can Geralt of Rivia be in the game?

as much as I want Geralt in the game, he is still in there with Goku. There isn't any dracula inteh game, but specifically the Dracula that originated in teh castlevania series.

Geralt would still be Geralt from the witcher series, a series of damn fine books turned into damn fine videogames.

 

[SNEKeater]

Warning, 1 swear word

Crowd reaction to May and Axl Low trailer pic.twitter.com/zVHqDRL9mM

— Alex Jebailey (@Jebailey) September 30, 2019

I think I found another reason to want Sol. Also has any Smash reveal got the community so pumped to sing along? Smell of the Game is a ****ing banger but I wonder if this is a unique thing

Maybe it's because I'm playing GG right now but I actually think Sol has some chances for Smash. I believe he could fill the Joker spot of "unexpected but cool as **** character" in the next fighter pass (if we have a proper fighter pass 2), I also think the chances of getting another fighting character in the future are high and personally I don't see Mortal Kombat happening due to his low presence in Japan.
He would bring a different aesthetic and an amazing soundtrack, like Joker, and the new Guilty Gear is releasing in 2020. That doesn't mean anything but hey, people always mention upcoming games when they talk about possible newcomers, like a Doomslayer announcement close to the release of Doom Eternal.

The only problem I see is how Sakurai would translate his aesthetic and design to Smash. I mean, GG and his 2D/3D anime style and all that.
I'd say if we get another fighting character I feel like it's between Tekken and Guilty Gear.

 

[SvartWolf]

The only problem I see is how Sakurai would translate his aesthetic and design to Smash. I mean, GG and his 2D/3D anime style and all that.
I'd say if we get another fighting character I feel like it's between Tekken and Guilty Gear.

With the inclusion of terry.. i wouldn't completely rule out morrigan in teh future neither, (or we can get utterly trolled and sakurai adds Demitri Maximoff instead) but yeah... Regarding it's artsyle.. while i think it would be the only instance of the original looking better than it's smash couterpart (Mostly because i think that the new GG art direction is amazing in both design and technical prowess) I think that a sol normal 3d model could work just fine, a little like the characters from Guilty Gear II overture.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Alright then guess no more bringing up theories then.

 

[yeet123]

Then offer up another character..we need to stay on-topic or the thread can risk becoming locked.

Imagine thinking that this thread would ever get locked

 

[Flyboy]

Maybe it's because I'm playing GG right now but I actually think Sol has some chances for Smash. I believe he could fill the Joker spot of "unexpected but cool as **** character" in the next fighter pass (if we have a proper fighter pass 2), I also think the chances of getting another fighting character in the future are high and personally I don't see Mortal Kombat happening due to his low presence in Japan.
He would bring a different aesthetic and an amazing soundtrack, like Joker, and the new Guilty Gear is releasing in 2020. That doesn't mean anything but hey, people always mention upcoming games when they talk about possible newcomers, like a Doomslayer announcement close to the release of Doom Eternal.

The only problem I see is how Sakurai would translate his aesthetic and design to Smash. I mean, GG and his 2D/3D anime style and all that.
I'd say if we get another fighting character I feel like it's between Tekken and Guilty Gear.

I dream of both Tekken and GG in Smash. With the hype of 2020 rising, and ArcSys back in a big way just like SNK, now is the perfect time!

If they add Sol, I feel like they'd take liberties in the art style to emulate that beautiful animated look. Lots of motion blur. Joker has similar care placed into ensuring his aesthetic works in the smash style with UI tweaks, red silhouettes, and even the eye cut-ins.

It's not something I expect but it's something I'd love.

 

[NintenZ]

I'm starting to wonder if the last Fighters Pass character is actually first-party?

After all, remember in Smash 4 we had one new first-party as part of that run in the form of Corrin? Wondering if it could be the same case here...