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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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GoodGrief741

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Not to call out anyone in particular, but I'm not really a fan of how a lot of recent predictions/wishlists basically boil down to "here's a bunch of male action heroes and platformer mascots I think are cool." Even ignoring the female character debate, I'd like to see at least some male characters that don't fall under the "badass action hero" umbrella like Phoenix Wright or Professor Layton get talked about more. Idk, I like a lot of the macho men and cereal mascots, but I don't want those to be the only options for DLC.
Thing is, action games tend to be the most popular games, so if you're choosing popular characters or characters from popular franchises you're bound to end up with tons of those. And this is coming from someone who's most wanted third-party is Phoenix Wright.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I wasn't complaining about the female-male ratio. I'll be happy for one. Just one. One. It's so damn easy.
My counter argument wasn't really directed at you. I think a female character would be a good idea, but there's not really much point in stressing about it because whether or not we do get one (or any specific character really) is pretty much a coin flip.
I swear if I see one more Doomabusa "leak" then may the gods have mercy on my soul.
Don't worry. Terry debunked it.
EDIT: I mean...we could still get it, but it's not more likely or anything.
 
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TheYungLink

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A male third-party character that is neither an action hero nor a mascot character is Pete from Story of Seasons / Harvest Moon. That series is real iconic AND popular with women.
 

Michael the Spikester

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So what do you guys think? Think we'll get DLC fighter 5 released with Terry's release date and then the first post-Pass DLC fighter at the VGA? I could see that happening.
 

Wunderwaft

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Not to call out anyone in particular, but I'm not really a fan of how a lot of recent predictions/wishlists basically boil down to "here's a bunch of male action heroes and platformer mascots I think are cool." Even ignoring the female character debate, I'd like to see at least some male characters that don't fall under the "badass action hero" umbrella like Phoenix Wright or Professor Layton get talked about more. Idk, I like a lot of the macho men and cereal mascots, but I don't want those to be the only options for DLC.
Well, it's other people's wish lists to begin with so no one can say their choices are wrong and whatnot, everyone has their own preferences. There's a reason these characters are so common in these types of lists, it's because they're very popular.
 

SNEKeater

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About people referring Banjo & Kazooie as simply Banjo most of the times, I think it's obvious why. It's shorter and faster, not because some people are trying to demerit Kazooie or something like that. I do the same in general with other characters: I usually say Crash instead of Crash Bandicoot, Leon instead of Leon S. Kennedy, Jill instead of Jill Valentine, Terry instead of Terry Bogard, and more.

I think it's normal. Also there's context. If the topic of the thread shifts to, I don't know, Capcom characters, I will assume people will understand me if I simply say "Leon", "Jill", or "Phoenix" instead of saying their full names. So if people or most of them knows these characters I don't think writing his full names constantly is mandatory, but if I'm talking to people who maybe doesn't know about some characters then I will introduce them with their full names.
 

KatKit

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I got this.

For the fans of Western RPGs and Western third person shooters. Moveset-wise, I think Shep would be more fun than Doom Slayer, for example, but these kind of characters aren't my thing for Smash in general. Moreover, if we ever get another Rare rep she seems likely. Perfect Dark was critically acclaimed and is still considered one of the best in the genre. I'm surprised people didn't rally behind Joanna like they did for Banjo. But realistically, someone like Tracer would probably get in before those two.

No doubt Dante would be cool. Another Capcom rep that's slept on is Monster Hunter. Let's ignore the fact that Monster Hunter World sold more than any other Capcom title ever. It's also a type of game not explored in Smash's playable roster and the series has a lot of history with Nintendo. Also, if we go the Echo route, Sakura is high up there on the list, being Street Fighter fans' most popular character, consistently ranking 1st in official popularity polls with over 150,000 votes each. Though if we got an original character from the game, I can't think of anyone more iconic in popular culture than the strongest woman herself, Chun-Li. And don't get me started on Jill Valentine.

Speaking of Chun, there's Mai Shiranui if SNK can double dip. Or Athena Asamiya if we just want mascots (but she's legit, too).

2B. No picture. No need for an explanation. You should already know by now if you already don't. Just 2B. Although SquareEnix has so many awesome women to choose from (partially thanks to Final Fantasy), but I'll just settle with 2B.

If we go the Assassin's Creed route, Kassandra is from the latest game and turned out to be more popular than her male counterpart. Although I imagine her being an alt while other more popular protagonists like Ezio or Altair are the default.

Soul Calibur's Sophitia Alexandra has a lot going for her in and out of her home series. She's relevant enough to have two kids and her sister in the games. She was one of the few to defeat Soul Edge (with some help from Taki) in canon. She's heavily featured in merchandising, etc.

Shantae seems likely as an indie rep. She has a game coming out soon.

Don't get me started on first party candidates with no playable IPs yet like Mach Rider, Style Savvy, Ayumi Tachibana, Ribbon Girl, Akira Howard, etc. Or popular picks like Elma, Dixie, and <insert Fire Emblem gal here>. Or less popular yet viable curve balls who were screwed in the Brawl era like Jill Dozer. Or villains like Medusa. The list is long.

And I haven't even touched viable 3rd party picks for Japan or even Asia at large.

I can't help but feel ashamed for Smash. We're the only people who won;t let new girls join the fun!
Smash 4 was on the right track, but then they took a step back.
 
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D

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My counter argument wasn't really directed at you. I think a female character would be a good idea, but there's not really much point in stressing about it because whether or not we do get one (or any specific character really) is pretty much a coin flip.

Don't worry. Terry debunked it.
EDIT: I mean...we could still get it, but it's not more likely or anything.
In your opinikn, what is the probability we do get one? Mine is probably 40-60 at worst.
 

Evil Trapezium

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One thing that has been pretty consistent with newcomers is that Sakurai always introduces new series into Smash with the protagonist first, whether it would be of the latest game like Joker and Eleven (Luminary) or a classic character like Marth and Simon Belmont. Some characters could be debated like Pikachu but then you can argue back that he was the protagonist of Pokemon Yellow.

It's mainly the reason why I didn't include any female characters in my fighters pass mock up that Ben Holt Ben Holt showed. Most video game girls aren't protagonists. Jill Valentine could easily be a alt for Leon along with Chris and Claire similar to the Dragon Quest Heroes, Lara Croft doesn't have much of a moveset potential compared to the Resident Evil characters from what is showed in her games and for 2B or Arle Nadja, I had no reason not to add them, I'm just not familiar with their series.

My Fighters Pass was solely focused on adding iconic video game protagonists from critically acclaimed video game series from over the years, although Heihachi, Rayman and Spyro weren't my choices.
 
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Schnee117

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If we go the Assassin's Creed route, Kassandra is from the latest game and turned out to be more popular than her male counterpart. Although I imagine her being an alt while other more popular protagonists like Ezio or Altair are the default.
Kassandra would be her own character entirely with her brother as an alt.
They've got way more abilities and tools to use than the other Assassins.
 

Michael the Spikester

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Another Capcom rep that's slept on is Monster Hunter. Let's ignore the fact that Monster Hunter World sold more than any other Capcom title ever. It's also a type of game not explored in Smash's playable roster and the series has a lot of history with Nintendo.
The only thing is you'd think he/she would had been revealed alongside Rathalos. Its obvious Rathalos is the face of the series and represents the series enough as far as it goes.

I personally don't see Monster Hunter. If he/she were gonna get in they would had been revealed at that point for Base game.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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If I was allowed total control of the DLC lineup
About people referring Banjo & Kazooie as simply Banjo most of the times, I think it's obvious why. It's shorter and faster, not because some people are trying to demerit Kazooie or something like that. I do the same in general with other characters: I usually say Crash instead of Crash Bandicoot, Leon instead of Leon S. Kennedy, Jill instead of Jill Valentine, Terry instead of Terry Bogard, and more.

I think it's normal. Also there's context. If the topic of the thread shifts to, I don't know, Capcom characters, I will assume people will understand me if I simply say "Leon", "Jill", or "Phoenix" instead of saying their full names. So if people or most of them knows these characters I don't think writing his full names constantly is mandatory, but if I'm talking to people who maybe doesn't know about some characters then I will introduce them with their full names.
Plus it's awkward to say a person's first and last names every time you mentioned them. I'm probably the only one here who mentions every character by their full name as represented in Smash (though even I commonly refer to Terry Bogard as just Terry.)
In your opinikn, what is the probability we do get one? Mine is probably 40-60 at worst.
Incalculable. (I said coin-flip earlier which implies 50-50 but I really just meant random.)

EDIT:
The only thing is you'd think he/she would had been revealed alongside Rathalos. Its obvious Rathalos is the face of the series and represents the series enough as far as it goes.
I'm sure it doesn't matter too much considering she would likely be added in this "season 2" we're about to have.
 
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OrpheusTelos

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About people referring Banjo & Kazooie as simply Banjo most of the times, I think it's obvious why. It's shorter and faster, not because some people are trying to demerit Kazooie or something like that. I do the same in general with other characters: I usually say Crash instead of Crash Bandicoot, Leon instead of Leon S. Kennedy, Jill instead of Jill Valentine, Terry instead of Terry Bogard, and more.

I think it's normal. Also there's context. If the topic of the thread shifts to, I don't know, Capcom characters, I will assume people will understand me if I simply say "Leon", "Jill", or "Phoenix" instead of saying their full names. So if people or most of them knows these characters I don't think writing his full names constantly is mandatory, but if I'm talking to people who maybe doesn't know about some characters then I will introduce them with their full names.
I mean, nobody's denying that it's more concise, but it's weird how people use her as some kind of "gotcha" for people criticizing the lack of female characters when most people omit her when referring to Banjo. I like Kazooie, but 1/2 of a character who most people leave out of the full character's name is not substantial female representation.
 
D

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One thing that has been pretty consistent with newcomers is that Sakurai always introduces new series into Smash with the protagonist first, whether it would be of the latest game like Joker and Eleven (Luminary) or a classic character like Marth and Simon Belmont. Some characters could be debated like Pikachu but then you can argue back that he was the protagonist of Pokemon Yellow.

It's mainly the reason why I didn't include any female characters in my fighters pass mock up that Ben Holt Ben Holt showed. Most video game girls aren't protagonists. Jill Valentine could easily be a alt for Leon along with Chris and Claire similar to the Dragon Quest Heroes, Lara Croft doesn't have much of a moveset potential compared to the Resident Evil characters from what is showed in her games and for 2B or Arle Nadja, I had no reason not to add them, I'm just not familiar with their series.

My Fighters Pass was solely focused on adding iconic video game protagonists from critically acclaimed video game series from over the years, although Heihachi, Rayman and Spyro weren't my choices.
sigh...in that case, how do you think people will say about the lack of true female characters? Do you think people would be mad about it, like me for instance? It's probably due to my experiences with a lot of FGC, but it would be a shame for Smash to be the only fighting game in the modern FGC to only have male DLC, compared to other fighting games I showed.

It's just one. One female character is all I ask and I won't ***** about the rest of the characters being male. One.
 

Wunderwaft

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The only thing is you'd think he/she would had been revealed alongside Rathalos. Its obvious Rathalos is the face of the series and represents the series enough as far as it goes.

I personally don't see Monster Hunter. If he/she were gonna get in they would had been revealed at that point for Base game.
There's nothing stopping Monster Hunter from getting a playable character in post fighters pass DLC. Even if Rathalos is already in as a boss, who's to say they decide to go all in and make a playable character?
 

Michael the Spikester

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I'm sure it doesn't matter too much considering she would likely be added in this "season 2" we're about to have.
There's nothing stopping Monster Hunter from getting a playable character in post fighters pass DLC. Even if Rathalos is already in as a boss, who's to say they decide to go all in and make a playable character?
You also ignore though too that Monster Hunter has other Capcom reps to contend with.

Dante, Phoenix Wright and Resident Evil rep notably. I feel out of them an Resident Evil rep is the most likely.
 
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Flyboy

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I got this.

For the fans of Western RPGs and Western third person shooters. Moveset-wise, I think Shep would be more fun than Doom Slayer, for example, but these kind of characters aren't my thing for Smash in general. Moreover, if we ever get another Rare rep she seems likely. Perfect Dark was critically acclaimed and is still considered one of the best in the genre. I'm surprised people didn't rally behind Joanna like they did for Banjo. But realistically, someone like Tracer would probably get in before those two.

No doubt Dante would be cool. Another Capcom rep that's slept on is Monster Hunter. Let's ignore the fact that Monster Hunter World sold more than any other Capcom title ever. It's also a type of game not explored in Smash's playable roster and the series has a lot of history with Nintendo. Also, if we go the Echo route, Sakura is high up there on the list, being Street Fighter fans' most popular character, consistently ranking 1st in official popularity polls with over 150,000 votes each. Though if we got an original character from the game, I can't think of anyone more iconic in popular culture than the strongest woman herself, Chun-Li. And don't get me started on Jill Valentine.

Speaking of Chun, there's Mai Shiranui if SNK can double dip.

2B. No picture. No need for an explanation. You should already know by now if you already don't. Just 2B. Although SquareEnix has so many awesome women to choose from (partially thanks to Final Fantasy), but I'll just settle with 2B.

If we go the Assassin's Creed route, Kassandra is from the latest game and turned out to be more popular than her male counterpart. Although I imagine her being an alt while other more popular protagonists like Ezio or Altair are the default.

Soul Calibur's Sophitia Alexandra has a lot going for her in and out of her home series. She's relevant enough to have two kids and her sister in the games. She was one of the few to defeat Soul Edge (with some help from Taki) in canon. She's heavily featured in merchandising, etc.

Shantae seems likely as an indie rep. She has a game coming out soon.

Don't get me started on first party candidates with no playable IPs yet like Mach Rider, Style Savvy, Ayumi Tachibana, Ribbon Girl, Akira Howard, etc. Or popular picks like Elma, Dixie, and <insert Fire Emblem gal here>. Or less popular yet viable curve balls who were screwed in the Brawl era like Jill Dozer. Or villains like Medusa.

And I haven't even touched viable picks for Japan or even Asia at large.



Smash 4 was on the right track, but then they took a step back.
The fact that you can name all of these and still miss characters like Arle Nadja, Cooking Mama, Sakura Shinguji, Reimu Hakurei, or Velvet Crowe is wild. It just goes to show that it's not as shallow as people think. Plus from there you can spin into series' that have heavy female fanbases such as Story of Seasons, Ace Attorney, Professor Layton, even double dipping in Final Fantasy 7 with Tifa or Sephiroth... There are options, people! And encouraging that those options be explored, especially in a pass that is already varied in audience and vibe, is a good thing.
 
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NoOtherPersona

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sigh...in that case, how do you think people will say about the lack of true female characters? Do you think people would be mad about it, like me for instance? It's probably due to my experiences with a lot of FGC, but it would be a shame for Smash to be the only fighting game in the modern FGC to only have male DLC, compared to other fighting games I showed.

It's just one. One female character is all I ask and I won't ***** about the rest of the characters being male. One.
would you want the female by herself or as an alt?
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Koei-Tecmo is one of the LAST major Japanese publishers without a character in Smash. Hayabusa HAS to be next, right? Like, right now who else could ot be? Maybe Doom Slayer but he seems more like someone who would kick off Pass 2...

This next month is going to murder me with anticipation.
 

Deathcarter

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I think that any Nintendo character is fair game.
But it's clear that third parties have some sort of vetting process that blocks most female fighters.
Leon is more popular than Jill, and Sakurai goes with popularity over female quotas. Terry is a prime example.
Shantae is an indie character, and Shovel Knight would most likely be the first Indie rep.
2B simply isn't iconic enough.

So if we get a female third party character, it's 90% likely Lara Croft unless it's a random "Sakurai Pick".
How is 2B not iconic enough to get in Smash but Joker is? Her game actually outsold his by over a million.
 

Wunderwaft

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You also ignore though too that Monster Hunter has other Capcom reps to contend with.

Dante, Phoenix Wright and Resident Evil rep notably. I feel out of them an Resident Evil rep is the most likely.
Of course it has competition, every other third party has competition. I just don't subscribe to the idea that Monster Hunter has no chance of getting a playable character as DLC just because of Rathalos.
 

KatKit

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The only thing is you'd think he/she would had been revealed alongside Rathalos. Its obvious Rathalos is the face of the series and represents the series enough as far as it goes.

I personally don't see Monster Hunter. If he/she were gonna get in they would had been revealed at that point for Base game.
The base roster was large enough as is; a 3rd party avatar character (especially one as popular as Monster Hunter) that uses like a dozen different weapons seems like something that'd be regulated to DLC.
 
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Sour Supreme

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Well, come to think of it, yeah. I am getting tired of this trend. I swear that all these stuff about Doomguy/Hayabusa/Master Chief is so alarmingly too much it's c*****. I swear if I see one more Doomabusa "leak" then may the gods have mercy on my soul.
I can almost guaruntee we'll make it out of this DLC cycle with at least one female representative. And I would put money on more. Sakurai is no doubt aware of the demand for female fighters, especially considering their absence from the Fighter Pass thus far.
 

Michael the Spikester

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Koei-Tecmo is one of the LAST major Japanese publishers without a character in Smash. Hayabusa HAS to be next, right? Like, right now who else could ot be? Maybe Doom Slayer but he seems more like someone who would kick off Pass 2...

This next month is going to murder me with anticipation.
A part of me feels actually Doom Slayer is next.

Not only the companies great relationship with Nintendo and playing a part in development of the Switch but the fact the N64 and its latest game being on the Switch.

Not only that but Eternal comes out in November and Terry releases on that month. Timing couldn't be any perfect. Not to say I'm right but I'd keep an eye out.
 
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She's from an currently inactive series though.

They'd also have to reduce her breast size given her cleavage is exposed.
*chuckles* That was the same thing I've received when I told others about her being in Smash. But she's been with Capcom crossovers since day one so at least that would be a pipe dream that is actually still a dream.
 

NoOtherPersona

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Herself. If it's an alt, I could say so.

But at the very least I managed to discuss my points thoroughly with true discussion.
i just wanted to know where you were coming from at the very least because i don't know a lot of iconic video game females only stuff from Capcom and Lara Croft but i don't even know what she would do
 

Michael the Spikester

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*chuckles* That was the same thing I've received when I told others about her being in Smash. But she's been with Capcom crossovers since day one so at least that would be a pipe dream that is actually still a dream.
That's a fair point. I can't argue with that. I'd be honestly down for her anyways she'd bring in a unique moveset.
 

Michael the Spikester

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The base roster was large enough as is; a 3rd party avatar character (especially one as popular as Monster Hunter) that uses like a dozen different weapons seems like something that'd be regulated to DLC.
Even then in terms of another Capcom rep I'd feel an Resident Evil rep has the best shot getting in.
 
D

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A part of me feels actually Doom Slayer is next.

Not only the companies great relationship with Nintendo and playing a part in development of the Switch but the fact the N64 and its latest game being on the Switch.

Not only that but Eternal comes out in November and Terry releases on that month. Timing couldn't be any perfect. Not to say I'm right but I'd keep an eye out.
You can have your Doom Slayer by Season 2 DLC. Sakurai was probably testing the waters with a Western rep in Banjo. I don't feel like they should add 2 Western reps in one pass.

*sigh* The Doom supporters honestly didn't show up until the 5chan leak, and look where it took them.
 

Ben Holt

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sigh...in that case, how do you think people will say about the lack of true female characters? Do you think people would be mad about it, like me for instance? It's probably due to my experiences with a lot of FGC, but it would be a shame for Smash to be the only fighting game in the modern FGC to only have male DLC, compared to other fighting games I showed.

It's just one. One female character is all I ask and I won't ***** about the rest of the characters being male. One.
I feel you, but I think you should understand that we don't speculate out of sexism. It's just simply that there aren't many female third party characters to choose from. I'll happily take Lara Croft over some characters on my roster. But beyond that, you almost have to actively force a female pick.
But if you really want a female character, I would suggest picking one you really like and run with her. We won't judge your pick. It just seems so disingenuous to request "female fighter". I didn't pick Spyro because Smash lacks quadrupedal fighters; I picked him because I genuinely believe that he belongs with Crash in Smash Bros.
 

Michael the Spikester

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You can have your Doom Slayer by Season 2 DLC. Sakurai was probably testing the waters with a Western rep in Banjo. I don't feel like they should add 2 Western reps in one pass.

*sigh* The Doom supporters honestly didn't show up until the 5chan leak, and look where it took them.
I don't deny that I might be wrong because I could be just saying due to what I said its worth keeping check on. I probably am wrong anyways knowing Sakurai he's probably gonna surprise us again with a pick we don't expect.

Watch it be Chosen Undead or Ezio from Assassin's Creed.
 
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D

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Even then in terms of another Capcom rep I'd feel an Resident Evil rep has the best shot getting in.
In that case...*crosses fingers*Jill Valentine. Please be Jill Valentine. You gave her a moveset in Marvel VS Capcom. Let's make it such that she'll powercreep Snake in terms of camping ability.
 

Sour Supreme

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You can have your Doom Slayer by Season 2 DLC. Sakurai was probably testing the waters with a Western rep in Banjo. I don't feel like they should add 2 Western reps in one pass.

*sigh* The Doom supporters honestly didn't show up until the 5chan leak, and look where it took them.
I support Doom simply because Smash Ultimate is at this point the most expansive celebration of video gaming to date. I think an FPS representative would be sick just because it's an unexplored genre thus far in Smash. (Other than the Breegul Blaster... Funny that Kazooie is a cross argument to both lacking female and FPS representation.)

Regardless there are other niches that deserve to be filled and could easily be done so by female characters. I don't think anyone is demanding we see Doomguy over a chick.
 
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AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea

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Not to call out anyone in particular, but I'm not really a fan of how a lot of recent predictions/wishlists basically boil down to "here's a bunch of male action heroes and platformer mascots I think are cool." Even ignoring the female character debate, I'd like to see at least some male characters that don't fall under the "badass action hero" umbrella like Phoenix Wright or Professor Layton get talked about more. Idk, I like a lot of the macho men and cereal mascots, but I don't want those to be the only options for DLC.
This female character debate is never going to end huh, I'd rather go back to people complaining about Terry not being iconic

A lot of franchises/characters already represented in Smash are "badass action heroes" so why would people be wrong in expecting/wanting those kinds of characters for DLC? Sakurai said that he initially thought of Slime but went with Hero instead, the protagonists of Dragon Quest. Then there's Joker, the protagonist of Persona 5, and the list goes on.

I'm not understanding the logic in complaining about certain characters being talked about constantly, but ones people generally gush over like Sora, or Geno, or even Shantae are fine?
 

Michael the Spikester

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With that said these are the most likely female characters we could see.

-Dixie Kong
-Elma (More of wishful thinking)
-Edelgard
-Jill Valentine (As an alt to Leon)
-KOS-MOS (Same as Lara I feel she's being slept on)
-Lara Croft (Feel she's being slept on given her legacy)
-Shantae
 
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