Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

So who's the next circle jerk we'll discuss? Doom? Ryu H.? Geno? Waluigi? Tracer? Steve?

I thought Tracer was discussed before Terry

 

[Deleted member]

I'm glad we didn't get Slime honestly as the Heroes are what makes Dragon Quest so much fun. Nintendo showing that they know what they are doing.

Definitely interesting news. Even more so because a lot of Erdrick supporters were treating suggestions of Slime as something downright offensive for DQ's Smash representation. I guess the fact that SE was the one to suggest Slime really shows how much presence the little things have.

That said... I wonder what other Hero skins we would have if not for time constraints. Maybe some of the recolors we ended up getting (DQI and DQV)?

Not offensive but rather a dull one honestly, It just feels to me that is one of the choices fans go for the potential more than they like the character.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

One more thing.
It's not stated clearly but the talk between Sakurai and Fujimoto sounded like DQ was planned very early stage of Ultimate.
This is purely on my speculation but may be it sent to DLC because of JASRAC. DQ musics are managed by them and they always take money by percentage of the sales of the product so the cost will be far less if it's DLC.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Definitely interesting news. Even more so because a lot of Erdrick supporters were treating suggestions of Slime as something downright offensive for DQ's Smash representation. I guess the fact that SE was the one to suggest Slime really shows how much presence the little things have.

That said... I wonder what other Hero skins we would have if not for time constraints. Maybe some of the recolors we ended up getting (DQI and DQV)?

In all honesty it's because slime doesn't represent what Dragon Quest is all about a hero on his journey slime is just a monster that you fight early on and that's it and as for characters that could have been used as an alt skin I think DQ6 hero could have made it in

 

[Michael the Spikester]

My current prediction for DLC fighter 5.

-Capcom rep (Amaterasu, Dante, Phoenix Wright, Resident Evil rep)
-Crash Bandicoot
-Doom Slayer
-Dovahkiin
-Namco rep (Agumon, Dark Souls rep, KOS-MOS, Lloyd Irving); Don't see Heihachi at this point in this pass given Terry
-Ryu Hayabusa

 

[Deleted member]

One more thing.
It's not stated clearly but the talk between Sakurai and Fujimoto sounded like DQ was planned very early stage of Ultimate.
This is purely on my speculation but may be it sent to DLC because of JASRAC. DQ musics are managed by them and they always take money by percentage of the sales of the product so the cost will be far less if it's DLC.

I wouldn't be surprised, after all Erdrick (Hero) was the 1st DLC rumored character.

 

[3BitSaurus]

One more thing.
It's not stated clearly but the talk between Sakurai and Fujimoto sounded like DQ was planned very early stage of Ultimate.
This is purely on my speculation but may be it sent to DLC because of JASRAC. DQ musics are managed by them and they always take money by percentage of the sales of the product so the cost will be far less if it's DLC.

Hmm, that would explain why people like Vergeben were hearing about a SE newcomer before Ultimate even released. It was one of the first rumors after the game was announced, even.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Hero was first only had 11 and 3 skins

That must be why leaks focused on Erdrick.

 

[Deleted member]

The DQ livestream is very interesting. So much behind the scene things from Sakurai.
Just Hero bit here. I don't want to translate all but you should be looking forward for full-translation from PushDustIn.
Demands for DQ was always there but Sakurai thought it was just impossible however Nintendo said to him this time may be they can make it happen.
SE suggested Slime first but Sakurai really wanted Hero. Hero was first only had 11 and 3 skins but Horii gave him go for the others. Sakurai really wanted DQ3 hero and he had intention to create 8 different Heroes but he couldn't do it because of time constraints. The image of DQ1 hero is too varied and DQ5 protagonist is not a sword-wielder so they went with DQ4 hero instead. DQ8 protagonist was for overseas.
The concept of Hero was to represent the big-hearted, easygoing and generous feelings that DQ has. He knows that competitive players tend to dislike randomness but Smash is always meant to be a loose game.

Can we get an f in the chat for my brother who really wanted Slime?

 

[3BitSaurus]

I'm glad we didn't get Slime honestly as the Heroes are what makes Dragon Quest so much fun. Nintendo showing that they know what they are doing.

Not offensive but rather a dull one honestly, It just feels to me that is one of the choices fans go for the potential more than they like the character.

In all honesty it's because slime doesn't represent what Dragon Quest is all about a hero on his journey slime is just a monster that you fight early on and that's it and as for characters that could have been used as an alt skin I think DQ6 hero could have made it in

Maybe Hero represents DQ's fundamentals better, but really, "dullness" seems really subjective. Both were interesting choices in terms of moveset and character imo. It's just that Smash seems to care about representing a whole series (as far as third parties are concerned), so in most situations it would make more sense to go with someone like Hero, especially considering DQ's status as "the original JRPG".

That must be why leaks focused on Erdrick.

Aaah, if I recall correctly, in the "Seven Squares" list were three DQ names: Erdrick, Luminary (Eleven) and Slime! Or in other words, the three characters that were discussed in negotiations at that point in time. I guess that piece of the puzzle has been found then.

 

[Flyboy]

It's amazing how this is making everything fall into place. So many pieces make sense now! The Square Seven having Eleven, Erdrick, and Slime, the Hero rumor, Erdrick's presence in leaks...how cool!

 

[Untouch]

Hero getting in over Slime is kind of bittersweet, I really wanted Slime.
Hero does make more sense, but I still really wanted Slime.

 

[Deleted member]

Wonder what does this means for the remaining SE characters in the list, were those actually used as leakbait?

 

[NintenZ]

Wonder what does this means for the remaining SE characters in the list, were those actually used as leakbait?

Was pretty interesting Sora wasn't on the list ngl...

Could those have been Square Enix characters they considered adding?

 

[IAmGiles]

Personally, I would have preferred Slime, but my opinion is definitely skewed. The only DQ game I've ever played was Rocket Slime lol

 

[Ridrool64]

This is definitely the most interesting bit.

Really makes you wonder what other characters were suggested to Nintendo from companies like Sega, Konami, SNK, etc.

I might be the Arle guy, but even I have to admit that Joker honestly won hands down against her in basically every category. If anything, I don't think it'd be Arle, it'd be Yu Narukami who was discussed as the alternative to Joker. Sakurai seems to prefer Persona 5 to 4, so obviously Yu lost. And if even if Joker's guns weren't a problem, P3 Hero/ine's guns would absolutely be because they shoot themselves in the head. Yeah, it's not with a real gun, but the suicide imagery is still there. And Atlus doesn't talk about Persona 1 or 2, and doesn't talk about anything else from Shin Megami Tensei anymore.

 

[Flyboy]

Wonder what does this means for the remaining SE characters in the list, were those actually used as leakbait?

Maybe they're potential future characters? Sephiroth and Geno in particular seem plausible, with Sora and Crono being outliers for one reason or another. Or it was all leakbait. Very interesting stuff either way.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Was pretty interesting Sora wasn't on the list ngl...

Could those have been Square Enix characters they considered adding?

He was on the list, actually. The other non-DQ characters were Sora, Geno, Crono and Sephiroth.

I think what's interesting about this is that he's on the list despite Disney owning KH while other characters, like 2B for example, are nowhere to be seen.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Was pretty interesting Sora wasn't on the list ngl...

Could those have been Square Enix characters they considered adding?

Because Sora's an Disney rep duh.

 

[Deleted member]

They were probably on the list because they were popular characters that people request, so if people found out about it, they wouldn't know which one it was exactly.

 

[NintenZ]

Because Sora's an Disney rep duh.

True, but Square would be involved with his inclusion in terms of licensing and getting Nomura's permission.

 

[Untouch]

Dragon Quest being considered early into development, and Nintendo doing the negotiations is interesting.
DQ Switch was announced late 2016.
I wonder if Nintendo went to Square and asked for a character in exchange for Square announcing and developing DQXI:S.
It matches up a lot with the theorized timeline, we know Smash started development early 2016.

 

[osby]

It's amazing how this is making everything fall into place. So many pieces make sense now! The Square Seven having Eleven, Erdrick, and Slime, the Hero rumor, Erdrick's presence in leaks...how cool!

It also kills the "Luminary is only added later to promote DQ11" argument, since he was apparently selected along with Erdrick.

I might be the Arle guy, but even I have to admit that Joker honestly won hands down against her in basically every category. If anything, I don't think it'd be Arle, it'd be Yu Narukami who was discussed as the alternative to Joker. Sakurai seems to prefer Persona 5 to 4, so obviously Yu lost. And if even if Joker's guns weren't a problem, P3 Hero/ine's guns would absolutely be because they shoot themselves in the head. Yeah, it's not with a real gun, but the suicide imagery is still there. And Atlus doesn't talk about Persona 1 or 2, and doesn't talk about anything else from Shin Megami Tensei anymore.

I think Joker was picked because P5 outsold P3 and P4's lifelong sales in a couple of years and overall is the best selling game ATLUS ever made.

Also, ATLUS just released a SMT mobile game last year and they keep updating it. Why "SMT is dead" memes are still around?

 

[Ridrool64]

Also, ATLUS just released a SMT mobile game last year and they keep updating it. Why "SMT is dead" memes are still around?

That's actually news to me! I'm thinking I'll check it out. I was mostly referring to the blank on SMTV news, which I am considering getting but would like to know more about it.

And yeah, P5 was a financial powerhouse. Even with Puyo Tetris' shocking popularity, it was nothing compared to that (on a multiplat release with Tetris in the name to boot).

 

[Slime Master]

Just to make the case for a slime: it would represent the charm and light hearted nature of DQ really well, and I believe that is often part of what initially draws people into the series and part of what makes it so accessible.

 

[GoodGrief741]

This I interesting info we're getting. I for one hope that someday in the future Sakurai doubles down and gets Slime.

 

[Opossum]

You know, Hero being decided early might've also factored into why he got such a big budget trailer. Joker and Terry got ones done in the style of their home series (which, presumably, would be cheaper than the massive CGI ones), while Banjo and Kazooie's reused a lot of K. Rool's trailer assets.

Hero, meanwhile, got a big budget CGI trailer without reused assets, like the base game characters.

 

[Ridrool64]

Do you think post-pass characters will have other series-based takes on reveal trailers (which would be accompanied by machinima), or is it all machinima from here on out (after the final character of the Fighter's Pass)?

I doubt we're gonna get very many more big budget trailers unless the character getting in is a really big deal. Like, almost Mario-level. And I don't think there's very many of those left.

 

[NintenZ]

You know, Hero being decided early might've also factored into why he got such a big budget trailer. Joker and Terry got ones done in the style of their home series (which, presumably, would be cheaper than the massive CGI ones), while Banjo and Kazooie's reused a lot of K. Rool's trailer assets.

Hero, meanwhile, got a big budget CGI trailer without reused assets, like the base game characters.

Actually Sakurai said the collaboration with Production IG for Joker's trailer was quite a lot of work, and he wasn't sure if the budget would be able to afford doing another anime-styled trailer because of that.

I do agree though that trailers moving forward will likely be more simpler.

 

[Dee Dude]

Honestly, I think future DLC trailers might actually be mixed into 3 types depending on the budget:

-Stylized animated trailers based on their game (Joker, Terry)

-Full fledged CGI trailers (Hero, Banjo)

-Gameplay only trailer with no budget. (Piranha Plant)

 

[DarthEnderX]

So it's bait because it's an unpopular opinion that people don't agree with.

Actually, pretty sure most people agree with it. Just not here on the Smash forum.

Probably not on a FE forum either I would imagine...

SE suggested Slime first but Sakurai really wanted Hero.

Good on ya Sakurai!

Hopefully, Slime gets to be an AT next time. Like a whole bunch of Slimes start dropping down from the sky, and if you don't kill em fast enough, they merge into a King Slime that can really do some damage.

Hero was first only had 11 and 3 skins but Horii gave him go for the others. Sakurai really wanted DQ3 hero and he had intention to create 8 different Heroes but he couldn't do it because of time constraints..

Hopefully, we'll get a full 8(or more) next time.

The image of DQ1 hero is too varied and DQ5 protagonist is not a sword-wielder so they went with DQ4 hero instead.

I think Sakurai needs to play more DQ5...Five can wield 13 different types of sword...

Aaah, if I recall correctly, in the "Seven Squares" list were three DQ names: Erdrick, Luminary (Eleven) and Slime! Or in other words, the three characters that were discussed in negotiations at that point in time. I guess that piece of the puzzle has been found then.

Or they were just the 3 most obvious and likely choices for a DQ rep...which is likely WHY they were in negotiations for them in the first place.

I for one hope that someday in the future Sakurai doubles down and gets Slime.

WAY in the future hopefully. SE has a lot more characters in line ahead of getting a 2nd DQ rep...

 

[NintenZ]

Ngl if we ever get more Echo Fighters, one of the most obvious to me is Rock Howard.

We have Ken, he starred in his own game, he's one of SNK's most popular characters, and he's really similar to Terry but has enough to stand on his own and be an Echo in the style of Ken.

Like imagine how cool a fight between Ryu and Ken and Terry and Rock in Smash would be?

 

[Izanagi97]

Adding on to this, Edelgard isn't even able to use dark magic in her timeskip/canon classes. She just has a Hidden Talent in it for... some reason? Flavor? Balance? We'll never know, but she's definitely limited to her axe when it comes to weaponry compared to Byleth with whipsword, light magic, and brawling.

Pretty sure Reason (the skill stat Edelgard has a hidden talent for) comprises Offensive Magic in general (Edelgard has Fire and Bolganone) and not just Dark Magic. Then again, Edelgard is one of three playable characters who can use Dark Magic, albeit only two spells (Luna Λ and Hades Ω) compared to Hubert and Lysithea's five spells.

 

[Sari]

Ngl if we ever get more Echo Fighters, one of the most obvious to me is Rock Howard.

We have Ken, he starred in his own game, he's one of SNK's most popular characters, and he's really similar to Terry but has enough to stand on his own and be an Echo in the style of Ken.

I think he's too different from Terry both in his animations and moveset to be an echo (especially since he uses some moves that Geese has). I could see him working as a Lucas-type of clone though.

Like imagine how cool a fight between Ryu and Ken and Terry and Rock in Smash would be?

Rock would be cool though I wish we could get Kyo so we could get Kyo vs Ryu and Terry vs Ken again.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think he's too different from Terry both in his animations and moveset to be an echo (especially since he uses some moves that Geese has). I could see him working as a Lucas-type of clone though.


Rock would be cool though I wish we could get Kyo so we could get Kyo vs Ryu and Terry vs Ken again.

View attachment 239638

I love Ryu in that image, he looks so serious!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Does anyone have a link to that "smiley" leak? I don't want to watch Blocked Content.

Anyone know what leak he’s talking about? Since he mentioned Blocked Content I’m going to assume this is a Smash leak

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

F!Byleth's tights might be ugly but I love her and I love her hair. I'd love to see her as the default. I'm very fond of her.


Bruh people didn't believe it, it was just fun to consider a character far out of the norm while trying to debunk it. Render hoaxes are waaay more fun than the millionth flavor of the month text "leak" or the stupid codename "leaks" or whatever.

Remember back when people made "leaks" in the form of word puzzles?

Those weren't good times.

 

[soyperson]

Anyone know what leak he’s talking about? Since he mentioned Blocked Content I’m going to assume this is a Smash leak

It's basically a chan leak that BlockedContent covered, claiming that Fighter Five is Waluigi. I watched the video last night, and honestly I don't remember anything else of note, besides that the information given was rather iffy.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Remember back when people made "leaks" in the form of word puzzles?

Those weren't good times.

I remember in just July that the Geno thread jumped on a picture of a bird as some sort of hint to something potentially upcoming in Smash... So, it's still ongoing (that one didn't pay off by the way and seems dead)

Why do people act like "puzzle leaks" and "cryptic leaks" are somehow an acceptable way of communicating information to people, and that was as a community should pay them any attention? If you're a leaker, we're already putting faith into your words, hiding your information behind a facade or a riddle/puzzle/hint is just a giant red flag that is manipulative of the Smash fan base for little to no chance of payoff.

The next time anything like that comes up we should all ignore it, this **** is not conducive to a healthy community.

 

[yeet123]

Ngl if we ever get more Echo Fighters, one of the most obvious to me is Rock Howard.

Im dying for an echoes pass.

Dixie for Lil Monkey Boi
Octoling for Squidboi
Birdo for Tax-Dodging-Boi
Shadow for Blue Balls Boi
Ms Pac Man for Yellow Ball Boi
Black Shadow for Show me your moves boi
Impa for Secretly Not a Boi
Proto Man for Robot Boi

Why do people act like "puzzle leaks" and "cryptic leaks" are somehow an acceptable way of communicating information to people

I was in Sabi's discord when she received a picture of a witch puzzle board weeks before E3.

I was also in Sabi's discord when she received a picture of a bear with a bird in its mouth weeks beforee e3.

They're not ALL bull****. Just sayin.