Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Flyboy]

If Waluigi is future DLC (A non-zero chance) I very very much doubt he'll be in the fighter's pass. Wouldn't give Blocked Content the time of day.

 

[osby]

If Waluigi is future DLC (A non-zero chance) I very very much doubt he'll be in the fighter's pass. Wouldn't give Blocked Content the time of day.

*insert obligatory "but it would end Fighter Pass with a bang!" comment here*

 

[yeet123]

*insert obligatory "but it would end Fighter Pass with a bang!" comment here*

If you don't think Waluigi would be an explosive way to end the pass, youre buggin

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If you don't think Waluigi would be an explosive way to end the pass, youre buggin

I know Osby's not English but he literally said that people would be so excited they'd defend it from doubt

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Im dying for an echoes pass.

Dixie for Lil Monkey Boi
Octoling for Squidboi
Birdo for Tax-Dodging-Boi
Shadow for Blue Balls Boi
Ms Pac Man for Yellow Ball Boi
Black Shadow for Show me your moves boi
Impa for Secretly Not a Boi
Proto Man for Robot Boi


I was in Sabi's discord when she received a picture of a witch puzzle board weeks before E3.

I was also in Sabi's discord when she received a picture of a bear with a bird in its mouth weeks before e3.

They're not ALL bull****. Just sayin.

No, the method of delivery is bull**** regardless of if they're valid or not. Like I said, it already takes an enormous amount of faith to trust someone on their word without anything really to back them up besides reputation (which are sometimes not that great even in the best cases). I know some people think it's "cute" or "fun" or whatever, but that's not really the position to be making information more difficult to parse/understand. I just don't think we should be giving those types of leakers the time of day because of that fact.

Also, Mrs. Pac-Man is almost certainly too held up in legal trouble to ever be playable in Smash and this probably explains why she wasn't included as an Echo despite being the most recognizable Echo option in exisitance; https://twitter.com/ShaunMusgrave/status/1176693140503154688

*insert obligatory "but it would end Fighter Pass with a bang!" comment here*

Typical Nintendo, ending their Fighter's Pass with another unexciting, shill pick.... this is mostly sarcasm... but Waluigi would be a super meh end to this Fighter's Pass in all actuality lol

 

[soyperson]

I'm fully convinced that Fighter Five will either be Doomslayer (lines up extremely well with Doom Eternal's release, et c et c) or Geno/Waluigi. Just to sate the fans for this pass.

 

[Deleted member]

Remember back when people made "leaks" in the form of word puzzles?

Those weren't good times.

You mean Polar Panda?

 

[Ovaltine]

You know, I'm probably very biased when I say this, but the fact that DQ may have been base game and was moved to DLC is very interesting to me. The only base game content we got apart from Cloud's bare minimum are Geno's and Mallow's spirits. It makes me wonder if DQ and Geno were both on the table, DQ was chosen for a rep, and Geno's spirit was added with Mallow's as a, "This will do for now, maybe we'll add him as DLC later." Then, DQ was pushed off to DLC.

Just a point of fascination that makes me wonder if Geno, apart from the Fighter's Pass, was never entirely off of the table at any point. Shelved for now and for the Fighter's Pass, yes, but not completely off of the table. It'd make some sense to me that they were both in consideration, one more iconic pick and one more fan-based pick, and they prioritized the iconic one (smart business move). Whether that theory is true and whether or not we'll get Geno at any point is still up in the air, but considering how third parties are negotiated and require more work than first parties, I wouldn't rule it out. Geno's spirit got in the game somehow, and this seems like a logical process.

 

[osby]

If you don't think Waluigi would be an explosive way to end the pass, youre buggin

What I think about Waluigi is irrelevant.

My point was just because a character would be hype for core Smash fandom doesn't mean they are more likely to be a final reveal.

 

[Aetheri]

I'm fully convinced that Fighter Five will either be Doomslayer (lines up extremely well with Doom Eternal's release, et c et c) or Geno/Waluigi. Just to sate the fans for this pass.

Doubt either Geno or Waluigi is going to be in the Fighter's pass because both are already present in Smash in some form and the fighter's pass was decided very early on.

They'd come post-pass if anything since we still don't have much details about that just yet.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You know, I'm probably very biased when I say this, but the fact that DQ may have been base game and was moved to DLC is very interesting to me. The only base game content we got apart from Cloud's bare minimum are Geno's and Mallow's spirits. It makes me wonder if DQ and Geno were both on the table, DQ was chosen for a rep, and Geno's spirit was added with Mallow's as a, "This will do for now, maybe we'll add him as DLC later." Then, DQ was pushed off to DLC.

Just a point of fascination that makes me wonder if Geno, apart from the Fighter's Pass, was never entirely off of the table at any point. Shelved for now and for the Fighter's Pass, yes, but not completely off of the table. It'd make some sense to me that they were both in consideration, one more iconic pick and one more fan-based pick, and they prioritized the iconic one (smart business move). Whether that theory is true and whether or not we'll get Geno at any point is still up in the air, but considering how third parties are negotiated and require more work than first parties, I wouldn't rule it out. Geno's spirit got in the game somehow, and this seems like a logical process.

Wait so they added Geno as a spirit in case they wanted DLC when they even made sure Piranha Plant didn't get a spirit before being DLC?

 

[SvartWolf]

I'm fine with this in Smash but it bothers me in Fire Emblem Warriors for some reason...It's probably because Tharja's a clone of him (Who can't can't use anima magics in her base class which is what Robin focuses on).

I really wish they went for charm or cool factor and uniqueness rather than a lack of characterization. Miitopia proves that you can be goofy and still represent a wide variety of people, so why doesn't smash jump on board. I think the reason why there isn't a Mii Caster is because the Brawler, Swordfighter, and Gunner fit the brawler, swordsman, and zoner archetypes respectively so what's the caster going to play like? Zelda? Robin? I'd like it if they tried anyway but it's never going to happen because most people seem to not care about Miis all that much.

Dunno, both swordfighter and gunner are inda zoner, and i think that caster could be either trapper, setup and resource management.... I think that it can be a little of hero but withouth the rng... where he can charge spells, and smash attacks are good, as long as he has mp.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Wait so they added Geno as a spirit in case they wanted DLC when they even made sure Piranha Plant didn't get a spirit before being DLC?

I think her point is that Dragon Quest was planned for base game or in the base game phase and that Geno was potentially going to be a DLC rep in the Fighter's Pass before Dragon Quest got moved to the Fighter's Pass because of whatever specific issues, and that potentially, Geno may have been moved to later DLC, but given a Spirit in base game since he was also "in the works" in this scenario.

 

[SNEKeater]

Ngl if we ever get more Echo Fighters, one of the most obvious to me is Rock Howard.

We have Ken, he starred in his own game, he's one of SNK's most popular characters, and he's really similar to Terry but has enough to stand on his own and be an Echo in the style of Ken.

Like imagine how cool a fight between Ryu and Ken and Terry and Rock in Smash would be?

Rock would be very cool but as Sari said, I think he has too many differences to be an echo fighter of Terry. I mean, I wouldn't complain if Rock gets into Smash as an echo fighter because I don't think expecting another SNK character is realistic, at least for Ultimate, and if we get another I'd guess Kyo would be the first on the list for Sakurai.

But yeah it would be nice to see him (or Kyo) alongside Terry.

 

[NintenZ]

Tbh my thoughts on Spirits being promoted are that they can just have them have their Fighter artworks for their Fighter Spirits like Cloud or Robin do.

 

[Ovaltine]

Wait so they added Geno as a spirit in case they wanted DLC when they even made sure Piranha Plant didn't get a spirit before being DLC?

It's more that Hero was the priority, and they weren't going to consider Geno just yet. At this point, DLC had not even been planned, and PP was probably meant to be in the base game (no spirit, Palutena's guidance). Then Fighter's Pass happened, DQ got pushed into DLC, and any chance of Geno being in the FP was eliminated by Hero taking precedent either way. Base game or not, Hero was the focus, and Geno was on the backburner with no further plans for him yet. Therefore, spirit.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think her point is that Dragon Quest was planned for base game or in the base game phase and that Geno was potentially going to be a DLC rep in the Fighter's Pass before Dragon Quest got moved to the Fighter's Pass because of whatever specific issues.

Idk, to me it says that they moved Hero to DLC so they only had to give royalties for Hero sales and not every Ultimate sale, the mere implication this has anything to do with Geno just seems baffling

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Rock would be very cool but as Sari said, I think he has too many differences to be an echo fighter of Terry. I mean, I wouldn't complain if Rock gets into Smash as an echo fighter because I don't think expecting another SNK character is realistic, at least for Ultimate, and if we get another I'd guess Kyo would be the first on the list for Sakurai.

But yeah it would be nice to see him (or Kyo) alongside Terry.

Depending on how much DLC we get, we could potentially see a second SNK fighter like Nakoruru or Haohmaru to represent Samurai Showdown. It's a long shot for sure, but SNK is a pretty decent well to come back to if Sakurai wants to.

 

[soyperson]

I figure that the only spirit characters that could be "upgraded" to fighter status are first parties. The shortlist on that front is Waluigi, Geno, Bandana Dee, and Dixie Kong. Maybe, maybe, Min-Min from ARMS.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's more that Hero was the priority, and they weren't going to consider Geno just yet. At this point, DLC had not even been planned, and PP was probably meant to be in the base game (no spirit, Palutena's guidance). Then Fighter's Pass happened, DQ got pushed into DLC, and any chance of Geno being in the FP was eliminated by Hero taking precedent either way. Base game or not, Hero was the focus, and Geno was on the backburner with no further plans for him yet. Therefore, spirit.

Idk, it just seems so unneccesary to negotiate a spirit if you wanted to do more because Geno's negotiations would already mean a new contract, just seems like a waste of time

 

[DarthEnderX]

Proto Man for Robot Boi

You misspelled Bass.

 

[NintenZ]

Gwen's got a point, it does seem weird they'd negotiate for Geno's rights, put him in as a Spirit, and then say "Sike, he's in!", especially when we just got a brand new character from the same company.

Seems like a bit of a stretch to me. (I also don't get the correlation between Geno and Hero's negotiations since that's two separate parts of Square Enix you would have to go through.)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I figure that the only spirit characters that could be "upgraded" to fighter status are first parties. The shortlist on that front is Waluigi, Geno, Bandana Dee, and Dixie Kong. Maybe, maybe, Mei-Mei from ARMS.

I’d personally throw in Elma for that list too. Maybe Octoling (Octo Expansion) too. Maybe Medusa or Black Shadow if they’re feeling generous

(Ps. Her name’s actually Min-Min)

 

[Ovaltine]

Idk, it just seems so unneccesary to negotiate a spirit if you wanted to do more because Geno's negotiations would already mean a new contract, just seems like a waste of time

Well, my thinking was more, "Maybe they can do something with Geno later, but if that can't happen, at least he'll have a spirit so the fans got something," but you do have a good point.

Either way, I am very intrigued with the process.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Also for third parties who have Spirits in base: I’d definitely think Shantae has a shot. She’s demanded like CRAZY, I’d say her demand is on the level of Waluigi, Isaac and the already confirmed guys:

 

[soyperson]

I’d personally throw in Elma for that list too. Maybe Octoling (Octo Expansion) too. Maybe Medusa or Black Shadow if they’re feeling generous

(Ps. Her name’s actually Min-Min)

Shoot, you're right. I don't know how I forgot that!

 

[NintenZ]

Also for third parties who have Spirits in base: I’d definitely think Shantae has a shot. She’s demanded like CRAZY, I’d say her demand is on the level of Waluigi, Isaac and the already confirmed guys:

Yeah tbh in terms of indies I can see her and Gunvolt, I think what helps her case the most imo is that she's very popular in Asia, and since Japan is usually considered first she makes sense in that regard.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Also for third parties who have Spirits in base: I’d definitely think Shantae has a shot. She’s demanded like CRAZY, I’d say her demand is on the level of Waluigi, Isaac and the already confirmed guys:

This may be my bias speaking, but it seems like they only want to rep indie series in minor ways. It helps that many people think the Sans Mii costume is good enough.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I also kind of appreciate the fact that Sakurai basically said, "I hear you, but I don't care" to the competitive Smash community. It's still his game and his product, and he's not going to bend on that point haha.

 

[SvartWolf]

Im dying for an echoes pass.

Dixie for Lil Monkey Boi
Octoling for Squidboi
Birdo for Tax-Dodging-Boi
Shadow for Blue Balls Boi
Ms Pac Man for Yellow Ball Boi
Black Shadow for Show me your moves boi
Impa for Secretly Not a Boi
Proto Man for Robot Boi


I was in Sabi's discord when she received a picture of a witch puzzle board weeks before E3.

I was also in Sabi's discord when she received a picture of a bear with a bird in its mouth weeks beforee e3.

They're not ALL bull****. Just sayin.

I honestly don't like much ms pacman.. and i feel that everyone is saying she should be an echo because is doable...
I think that echo still should have some degree of popularity and bring at least interesting animations to the table, perfect example, dark samus... (unless you are pit) but daisy? popular, dark samus? popular, Lucina? popular, chrom... for some reason.. popular.. ken? more popular most people think... Richter? the dude just took over poor simon popular...

Thats why i'm all for dixie, Impa and shadow, i think they both fit the echo mold perfectly and also bring something cool to the roster... I guess Black shadow, protoman, octoling and... maybe birdo you can argue.... but i guess they have their genuine fans somewhere?

But Ms pacman?... I really think that should be a costume at best. i'm pretty sure that even Zack fair have waaaaay more fans behind it.

Still, i'm a greedy person and i want Trevor Belmont as 66ee, bonus points if he comes with MOAR TRACKS and another stage XD...

Jill Valentine/ Leon Kennedy are other characters that I think i like more if both come together in a simon/richter way in a way that also both character can complete the other moveset.

Ive never played fatal fury, nor Garou mark of the wolves... but i remember really liking Rock howard on Capcom vs SNK 2, I don't know if he can work as an echo... but if he can I'm all open to him...

I'm fully convinced that Fighter Five will either be Doomslayer (lines up extremely well with Doom Eternal's release, et c et c) or Geno/Waluigi. Just to sate the fans for this pass.

I don't think he is as safe as some people think, but with all the noise, and push and legacy doom have, i wouldn't doubt he will end as a heavy contester for the second pass if he isn't the 5th... but so far Loyd looks more likely for the 5th... although it certainly would be an overabundance of JRPGs protagonists XD. At least Persona and Dragon quest are different enough (almost as two extremes)... I don't think Waluigi, Geno or Isaac will be the fifth. the characters for teh fans was Banjo. but i also think they had very good chances in a next pass...

 

[NintenZ]

This may be my bias speaking, but it seems like they only want to rep indie series in minor ways. It helps that many people think the Sans Mii costume is good enough.

I know it might seem like that, I completely understand what you're saying... But I feel like having an indie character is a good thing because it presents a nice sense of balance.

 

[soyperson]

It would be cool to have a Sans Gunner costume, a Hollow Knight Swordfighter costume, and a Shantae Brawler costume, each with a bonus track. They could bundle them for two dollars and sell it as an indie pack.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Also for third parties who have Spirits in base: I’d definitely think Shantae has a shot. She’s demanded like CRAZY, I’d say her demand is on the level of Waluigi, Isaac and the already confirmed guys:

I dunno if her demand is on THAT level but yeah she has a damn good shot if we're not deconfirming on Spirits. But if we're not deconfirming on Spirits I think Geno, Rayman, and a few others may be next in line ahead of her.

She is my go to indie rep though. Sans and Shovel Knight be damned.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It would be cool to have a Sans Gunner costume, a Hollow Knight Swordfighter costume, and a Shantae Brawler costume, each with a bonus track. They could bundle them for two dollars and sell it as an indie pack.

Since Sans is already out, I’d personally replace his already present costume with Gunvolt in the pack if we can’t get Gunvolt as playable (or plot twist, Copen, who now has his own game, becomes playable). Beyond the Blue/Eternal Blue as a bonus track pls

 

[soyperson]

Since Sans is already out, I’d personally replace his already present costume with Gunvolt in the pack if we can’t get Gunvolt as playable (or plot twist, Copen, who now has his own game, becomes playable). Beyond the Blue/Eternal Blue as a bonus track pls

Yeah, that tracks. Either Gunvolt or Quote Cavestory. But with the current state of Nicalis, I wouldn't blame Sakurai for leaving Cave Story repless.

 

[NintenZ]

I honestly don't like much ms pacman.. and i feel that everyone is saying she should be an echo because is doable...
I think that echo still should have some degree of popularity and bring at least interesting animations to the table, perfect example, dark samus... (unless you are pit) but daisy? popular, dark samus? popular, Lucina? popular, chrom... for some reason.. popular.. ken? more popular most people think... Richter? the dude just took over poor simon popular...

Thats why i'm all for dixie, Impa and shadow, i think they both fit the echo mold perfectly and also bring something cool to the roster... I guess Black shadow, protoman, octoling and... maybe birdo you can argue.... but i guess they have their genuine fans somewhere?

But Ms pacman?... I really think that should be a costume at best. i'm pretty sure that even Zack fair have waaaaay more fans behind it.

Still, i'm a greedy person and i want Trevor Belmont as 66ee, bonus points if he comes with MOAR TRACKS and another stage XD...

Jill Valentine/ Leon Kennedy are other characters that I think i like more if both come together in a simon/richter way in a way that also both character can complete the other moveset.

Ive never played fatal fury, nor Garou mark of the wolves... but i remember really liking Rock howard on Capcom vs SNK 2, I don't know if he can work as an echo... but if he can I'm all open to him...

Huh what?

Mrs. Pac-Man is one of the most iconic videogame characters ever, and she's more Echo material because she's known for being from a faster version of Pac-Man.

Change her speed, make her moves a bit more powerful, and change a few animations to be more feminine, that's it.

 

[SvartWolf]

Since Sans is already out, I’d personally replace his already present costume with Gunvolt in the pack if we can’t get Gunvolt as playable (or plot twist, Copen, who now has his own game, becomes playable). Beyond the Blue/Eternal Blue as a bonus track pls

Let me QUOTE you...

Still maybe we can talk about Miis? I really wish they started putting more tracks into miis... and a couple of pages ago i posted a long post about how they could improve the miis so much, to a point that they could be amazing replacements for newcomers that don't have a chance a super big chance.

Huh what?

Mrs. Pac-Man is one of the most iconic videogame characters ever, and she's more Echo material because she's known for being from a faster version of Pac-Man.

Change her speed, make her moves a bit more powerful, and change a few animations to be more feminine, that's it.

Definetly you are not selling me her... I know who miss pacman is. and i know she is recognizable, my question was.. is she popular?
Obviusoly though if you made her a straight up better pacman she will be popular in smash though :v

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Yeah, that tracks. Either Gunvolt or Quote Cavestory. But with the current state of Nicalis, I wouldn't blame Sakurai for leaving Cave Story repless.

To be fair he did negotiate with Koichi Sugiyama for the DQ tracks, and Sugiyama’s probably just as bad morals wise

Then again Nicalis isn’t a Japanese company so...

besides Nicalis would totally ghost Sakurai if he reached out to them, nevermind the CEO’s bigoted behavior

 

[SKX31]

I also kind of appreciate the fact that Sakurai basically said, "I hear you, but I don't care" to the competitive Smash community. It's still his game and his product, and he's not going to bend on that point haha.

Then again, the competitive community at large didn't break over Hero. I'd say it came kinda close when it was at its peak (Early August), but in the end only South Australia (IIRC) banned him. And then the best players identified his weaknesses and managed to overcome Hero (AFAIK he's ranked as mid-tier or so), so banning him became a moot point. The only real issue is the language barrier aspect - which is a completely legitimate one, and that's what lead to Nintendo of France's very short ban. His best recent result in a competitive setting is 9th-12th (komorikiri) at a Japanese major.

I'm of the belief that Sakurai and Sora did pay some attention to the competitive community when balancing Hero. Extremely strong magic game and RNG, but horribly laggy sword attacks and bad when he's in a disadvantaged spot.

 

[soyperson]

Then again, the competitive community at large didn't break over Hero. I'd say it came kinda close when it was at its peak (Early August), but in the end only South Australia (IIRC) banned him. And then the best players identified his weaknesses and managed to overcome Hero (AFAIK he's ranked as mid-tier or so), so banning him became a moot point. The only real issue is the language barrier aspect - which is a completely legitimate one, and that's what lead to Nintendo of France's very short ban. His best recent result in a competitive setting is 9th-12th (komorikiri) at a Japanese major.
I'm of the belief that Sakurai and Sora did pay some attention to the competitive community when balancing Hero. Extremely strong magic game and RNG, but horribly laggy sword attacks and bad when he's in a disadvantaged spot.

I'm playing as Hero in a local tourney in a couple of weeks, and from what I can tell I might be the only one. (While I fully expect to lose to more experienced players with better choice in characters, I still want to play Hero because I think he's just a ton of fun.)