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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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NoOtherPersona

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Oh dude you have no idea. Late 90's/Early 2000's Capcom fighting games had the biggest bangers. Go listen to Street Fighter III, X-Men vs. Street Fighter, Marvel vs. Capcom, Marvel vs. Capcom 2, Capcom vs. SNK, and Darkstalkers 3. All have dope *** soundtracks.
my guy i already know 90s Capcom has the best hits but you gotta admit Sega is up there too especially with there vocal tracks like the burning rangers theme song and Daytona USA and JSR plus SOF
 

Aetheri

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Definitely takes resources to make that stuff, especially for over 100 stages. We only got 4 new stages for the game so those resources could have definitely been better allocated elsewhere.

If someone's version of fun is the flat stage in the wacky party game, great for them. But don't spend extra resources on them when they already have stages that suit their needs. It's clear that Sakurai's vision of Smash doesn't agree with the Final Destination-only crowd.
You make it sound like the requests from the competitive smash community are irrelevant to Sakurai and the devs.

Call Smash what you want but both the competitive and casual sides of Smash are important to the developers. While Sakurai's initial design was that of a party fighter he also understands that some fans would rather enjoy playing the game in a more competitive setting. Those fans asked for a particular feature so that they could better enjoy the game while playing in a more competitive setting. Many fans were happy about this addition, therefore the resources weren't wasted.
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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my guy i already know 90s Capcom has the best hits but you gotta admit Sega is up there too especially with there vocal tracks like the burning rangers theme song and Daytona USA and JSR plus SOF
Jet Set Radio Future has one of my favorite Vocal Tracks of any game ever so I definitely see where your coming from.
Not even to mention that no matter how bad a Sonic game is, you can always depend on the music being phenomenal.
 

NoOtherPersona

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Jet Set Radio Future has one of my favorite Vocal Tracks of any game ever so I definitely see where your coming from.
Not even to mention that no matter how bad a Sonic game is, you can always depend on the music being phenomenal.
Only sonic game with bad music was Sonic Boom other then that great track record
 

GoodGrief741

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You make it sound like the requests from the competitive smash community are irrelevant to Sakurai and the devs.

Call Smash what you want but both the competitive and casual sides of Smash are important to the developers. While Sakurai's initial design was that of a party fighter he also understands that some fans would rather enjoy playing the game in a more competitive setting. Those fans asked for a particular feature so that they could better enjoy the game while playing in a more competitive setting. Many fans were happy about this addition, therefore the resources weren't wasted.
It's a waste of resources because those fans already have Final Destination and Battlefield. Complaining that they want to be able to play on those stages while listening to other music is absurd, just revamp My Music so that they can listen to whatever they want on those stages. Even if you did wanna heed those complaints, there are more resource-effective ways to do so. Seems like a lot of work to do just because people whine about not being able to hear K.K. Slider during their fight.

The people that play Smash like a competitive game are just a very vocal minority anyhow.
 
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NintenZ

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You sure about that Rie?

Shantae is pretty popular in the Core and Indie fanbase, but she's near nonexistent in Japan. Furthermore, the characters you listed have incredibly variable demand, from quite possibly the most popular character in the world K. Rool to popular in America Ridley & Banjo to mass meme phenomenon Waluigi to Isaac. He's popular in the core fanbase? Europe too?

From my perspective Shantae's less popular than Isaac, which isn't very good.
Actually this isn’t entirely true.

I recently went to Japan and she actually had some merchandise there, she’s actually decently popular in South Asia as a whole but yeah I don’t see many requests for her in that region specifically.

I do want to say something important though, when bringing up indies in Smash, remember to also consider what’s popular towards the Japanese market, which ALWAYS comes first and foremost in terms of what they consider appealing. (Kinda why I’m keeping my eyes on Gunvolt)
 

DarthEnderX

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Definitely takes resources to make that stuff, especially for over 100 stages. We only got 4 new stages for the game so those resources could have definitely been better allocated elsewhere.
Considering they're made up almost entirely of preexisting assets over a standardized geometry template, I wouldn't be surprised if those 100 Battlefield and FD stages took less resources than a single unique stage.

The people that play Smash like a competitive game are just a very vocal minority anyhow.
Kinda like your opinion on this subject.
 
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Opossum

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It's a waste of resources because those fans already have Final Destination and Battlefield. Complaining that they want to be able to play on those stages while listening to other music is absurd, just revamp My Music so that they can listen to whatever they want on those stages. Even if you did wanna heed those complaints, there are more resource-effective ways to do so. Seems like a lot of work to do just because people whine about not being able to hear K.K. Slider during their fight.

The people that play Smash like a competitive game are just a very vocal minority anyhow.
I want to be able to have Chrom rematch Captain Falcon on Arena Ferox without dealing with the janky layouts that the hazards-off version often goes to with Id - Purpose playing in the background. Please inform me how "just playing on Battlefield and Final Destination" helps me there.
 

Aetheri

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It's a waste of resources because those fans already have Final Destination and Battlefield. Complaining that they want to be able to play on those stages while listening to other music is absurd, just revamp My Music so that they can listen to whatever they want on those stages. Even if you did wanna heed those complaints, there are more resource-effective ways to do so. Seems like a lot of work to do just because people whine about not being able to hear K.K. Slider during their fight.

The people that play Smash like a competitive game are just a very vocal minority anyhow.
You keep using words like 'complain' and 'whine' instead of 'want' or 'request', clearly you have some kind of animosity towards the competitive side of the community if you keep referring to them in such a negative light.

Which is interesting given how a lot of casual fans can also be just as whiny like for example how a group of fans can be so salty that their favourite characters did not make the playable roster. Kinda like the "Dark Pit took resources from adding K Rool in the game" levels of complaints, which is something that both competitive and casual fans are guilty of.
 
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GoodGrief741

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Considering they're made up almost entirely of preexisting assets over a standardized geometry template, I wouldn't be surprised if those 100 Battlefield and FD stages took less resources than a single unique stage.
Your speculation is as good as mine, but considering Sakurai's eye for detail and how great they look, I very much doubt that.
Kinda like your opinion on this subject.
Great argument there.
I want to be able to have Chrom rematch Captain Falcon on Arena Ferox without dealing with the janky layouts that the hazards-off version often goes to with Id - Purpose playing in the background. Please inform me how "just playing on Battlefield and Final Destination" helps me there.
I would ask why you have such specific tastes, and also if you really think that it's worth the work to placate those overly specific demands.
You keep using words like 'complain' and 'whine' instead of 'want' or 'request', clearly you have some kind of animosity towards the competitive side of the community if you keep referring to them in such a negative light.

Which is interesting given how a lot of casual fans can also be just as whiny like for example how a group of fans can be so salty that their favourite characters did not make the playable roster. Kinda like the "Dark Pit took resources from adding K Rool in the game" levels of complaints, which is something that both competitive and casual fans are guilty of.
I don't really care about who's complaining, I calls it as I sees it.

Complaining about Dark Pit getting in over K. Rool is just as dumb, I never really minded clones but I guess people really needed the explanation that they don't take as many resources.

When are Geno fans going to cope with the fact he's most likely going to be a full blown costume like Sans?
Any reason why you say that?
 

Ridrool64

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It's not very likely. The ship on Square-Enix Mii Costumes has sailed, and we didn't get it then.

Unless you mean post-pass, then I could see it.
 

Aetheri

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Your speculation is as good as mine, but considering Sakurai's eye for detail and how great they look, I very much doubt that.

Great argument there.

I would ask why you have such specific tastes, and also if you really think that it's worth the work to placate those overly specific demands.

I don't really care about who's complaining, I calls it as I sees it.

Complaining about Dark Pit getting in over K. Rool is just as dumb, I never really minded clones but I guess people really needed the explanation that they don't take as many resources.


Any reason why you say that?
"Clones don't take as many resources"

another interesting statement...
 

Opossum

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I would ask why you have such specific tastes, and also if you really think that it's worth the work to placate those overly specific demands.
Games are about fun, and fun is subjective. Only about a fourth of the stages in the game are even PASSABLY fun for me because I'd rather fight the opponent than the stage itself. And even fewer are actually full-on good. For every Town and City there's like four Hanenbows.

I love how varied the stage locales are. Video game music is also important to me. I'd like to play on Arena Ferox, a stage from one of my favorite games, without caves of life rendering it unplayable. I'd like to enjoy 75M's pink and black aesthetic without dealing with the mess that is the normal stage. I'd like to listen to the Banjo-Kazooie songs in a fight without literally getting motion sickness.

By offering different layouts that are infinitely more playable, it helps me and many others. Battlefield Forms were requested ever since Omega forms were made in 4. The only one with a problem here is you. You're literally acting as a gatekeeper for the subjective definition of fun.
 

Megadoomer

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When are Geno fans going to cope with the fact he's most likely going to be a full blown costume like Sans?
There's nothing to base this off of, as far as I can tell. It seems like the most logical time to bring back Geno's Mii costume would have been when they added a Square-Enix character as DLC, like when they did the same thing in Smash 4, but that didn't happen. As of now, there's nothing to indicate that his Mii costume will or won't return.
 
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On the topic of stages, I want to see a DLC character come with a stupidly large stage for fun. The only question is what character would bring such a thing.
 

GoodGrief741

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"Clones don't take as many resources"

another interesting statement...
Not as many does not equal none. For example, Sakurai has gone on record that he had the choice of adding six clones or one unique in Melee.

As for stages, who knows what the ratio is, but with over 200 Battlefield and FD stages, I guarantee that it's not a nothing addition. Given how Smash Ultimate desperately needed new stages, as much as some people might have wanted that feature, it was not the right game to implement it.

Games are about fun, and fun is subjective. Only about a fourth of the stages in the game are even PASSABLY fun for me because I'd rather fight the opponent than the stage itself. And even fewer are actually full-on good. For every Town and City there's like four Hanenbows.

I love how varied the stage locales are. Video game music is also important to me. I'd like to play on Arena Ferox, a stage from one of my favorite games, without caves of life rendering it unplayable. I'd like to enjoy 75M's pink and black aesthetic without dealing with the mess that is the normal stage. I'd like to listen to the Banjo-Kazooie songs in a fight without literally getting motion sickness.

By offering different layouts that are infinitely more playable, it helps me and many others. Battlefield Forms were requested ever since Omega forms were made in 4. The only one with a problem here is you. You're literally acting as a gatekeeper for the subjective definition of fun.
I wonder how you even became a Smash player given how obviously antithetical to your idea of fun it is, but hey, I'm genuinely glad that you got a solution to your very specific needs.
 

Aetheri

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On the topic of stages, I want to see a DLC character come with a stupidly large stage for fun. The only question is what character would bring such a thing.
Elma of course...The stage is the entirety of Mira that spans all 5 continents! Each continent the size of the Great Cave Offensive!

Not as many does not equal none. For example, Sakurai has gone on record that he had the choice of adding six clones or one unique in Melee.

As for stages, who knows what the ratio is, but with over 200 Battlefield and FD stages, I guarantee that it's not a nothing addition. Given how Smash Ultimate desperately needed new stages, as much as some people might have wanted that feature, it was not the right game to implement it.
Obviously, where he spent time in one area always takes away from another. Just like how bringing back every character in Smash history also resulted in adding less new characters in the base game. Some fans were happy about this, while others were also disappointed as it possibly meant that their most wanted missed their opportunity because of it. For some people, getting Pichu back wasn't worth not having, let's say, Dixie Kong in the game. But that shouldn't take away from those who were happy to see the little self-harming yellow rat come back.

That said, for both the lack of new stages and new characters we have a simple solution that allows the team to add more to the game post development. DLC!

I wonder how you even became a Smash player given how obviously antithetical to your idea of fun it is, but hey, I'm genuinely glad that you got a solution to your very specific needs.
It's almost like every person has different specifications to how they prefer to play the game, and what's fun for some people is not fun for others.
 
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ROBnWatch

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WHAT IF SCENARIO: Doom Slayer and Geno are shadow dropped at The Game Awards.

How would you guys feel?
Doom: Figured as much by this point. At least it’s a character I know.

Geno: I’d honestly be more happy for his fans and my friend who wants him in. Still a good addition, would probably enjoy it more than not.
 
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Captain Fun

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I like having FD and battlefield versions of stages. I don’t play on those stages exclusively , but some stage layouts (like the many walk-off stages) aren’t fun for me even with hazards off.
I wonder how you even became a Smash player given how obviously antithetical to your idea of fun it is, but hey, I'm genuinely glad that you got a solution to your very specific needs.
This is needlessly rude.
 

King Sonnn DeDeDoo

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Jet Set Radio Future has one of my favorite Vocal Tracks of any game ever so I definitely see where your coming from.
Not even to mention that no matter how bad a Sonic game is, you can always depend on the music being phenomenal.
I know Beat would never make it as a character, but I would buy a Mii costume of him with any Jet Set Radio song in a heartbeat. Jet Set Radio has defined my taste in music more than any singular album ever has.
 
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MainJPW

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GoodGrief741

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Obviously, where he spent time in one area always takes away from another. Just like how bringing back every character in Smash history also resulted in adding less new characters in the base game. Some fans were happy about this, while others were also disappointed as it possibly meant that their most wanted missed their opportunity because of it. For some people, getting Pichu back wasn't worth not having, let's say, Dixie Kong in the game. But that shouldn't take away from those who were happy to see the little self-harming yellow rat come back.

That said, for both the lack of new stages and new characters we have a simple solution that allows the team to add more to the game post development. DLC!
Having to pay for more content is not really a solution to the lack thereof in the base game.
This is needlessly rude.
Does it read that way? If so then Opossum Opossum I apologize, I didn't mean to insult you or anything. I was honestly asking what drew you to Smash, given that most stages pre-4 don't really fit your tastes.

Why is "more content and variety is bad actually" the hill you're choosing to die on here
I'd hardly call having 100 versions of Battlefield and 100 versions of Final Destination "variety".
 

ROBnWatch

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My general thoughts on Battlefield/FD forms...

I like the option. Do I always play on Battlefield/FD forms? No. I like a bit more variety. There are very few stages that I flat out hate. And those I do dislike, I dislike generally because either the layout is garbage (looking at you, 75m) or the gimmick is unbearably annoying. So unlike most people here, I can stand to play on quite a few stages that aren’t competitively viable.

However, I’m not saying that disliking those sorts of stages is a bad thing. Everyone has their preferences. And while I do think, at times, the competitive scene is really, really routine with their handful of maybe 10 stages, if that’s the way they want to play, whatever. I’ll play my way and I’ll let them play theirs.

The option of Battlefield/FD forms also makes it pretty great when I do feel like simplifying things but also want a certain song to be playing. I can just switch to the Battlefield form of that stage and select whatever music track I want to play.

In other words, there’s no right and there’s no wrong. Why? Because the option exists to eliminate what one player feels is “wrong”. But for those that feel otherwise (i.e. that same thing is “right”), the option doesn’t need to be used because that player is fine with playing in a different manner.
 

Opossum

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Having to pay for more content is not really a solution to the lack thereof in the base game.

Does it read that way? If so then Opossum Opossum I apologize, I didn't mean to insult you or anything. I was honestly asking what drew you to Smash, given that most stages pre-4 don't really fit your tastes.


I'd hardly call having 100 versions of Battlefield and 100 versions of Final Destination "variety".
What drew me in, mostly, was the characters. You know, the crossover aspect. And the concept of fighting on stages from all these different video games. I never actually owned Melee and instead only played it at a friend's house, but Brawl was the first game in the series I actually owned. But even back then while there were fun stages like Smashville (especially when KK was playing) and Delfino, other stages from games I loved like Spear Pillar and Mario Bros. weren't good to play on at all, what with the Shellcreepers and Sidesteppers plaguing the latter while Dialga and ESPECIALLY Palkia ruined the former. Even then I thought, "man, this is great, but I wish there were better layouts for these stages."

The announcement of Omega Stages in 4 was incredibly hype for me for exactly that reason. I didn't need to worry about a stage I really wanted getting in only for its layout to make me hate playing on it. The addition of Battlefield forms made that even better, since I like Battlefield a lot more than Final Destination. Now I could fight on my favorite locations in gaming with my favorite characters with even more great songs playing in the background.

The addition of stage forms opened up a wealth of new stage options for me, and even singlehandedly salvaged ones like Spiral Mountain and 75M.
 
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DarthEnderX

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Geno: I’d honestly be more happy for his fans and my friend who wants him in. Still a good addition, would probably enjoy it more than not.
I'm always happy when a highly requested character like that gets in, because all those people will need someone new to request. And maybe that someone will be someone *I* care about.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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I won't lie that I don't really use the FD or BF versions of the stages and I would've preferred that there had been a few more new stages base game, especially for characters like Snake or Mega Man, but I can see the appeal to them and it seems to have made a lot of people happy so if someone's happy then I'm cool with it.
 

Aetheri

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Having to pay for more content is not really a solution to the lack thereof in the base game.
Well I never said it was an ideal solution. But it is a (literal) price to pay to get the game sooner rather than later, because I'm fairly sure Nintendo didn't want to delay the game after it's reveal last year. And with DLC, they could always add more after the game's released and everyone's playing it. One advantage to DLC is that if you really don't want that content, you don't have to buy it.

That said, I wouldn't exactly say the game is 'lacking' in content per se. Sakurai's already spoiling us like crazy with the game's current content even if absolute shiny new stuff wasn't as much as it could've been. There's a lot of things that were left out of the game (trophies, break the targets, even some older stages, etc) and there's an infinite amount of other things that could've been put into the game. It's a matter of perspective as you could choose to focus on what isn't in the game or focus on what is.

You don't like battlefield and FD forms? Fine. But some of us like to be able to play Brinstar Depths without getting all topsy turvy, perhaps we like the aesthetic of Great Cave Offensive but it's just straight up obnoxious to play on due to it's size and hazards but there's a work around for those who want it. Would I have liked Phendrana Drifts or something like that, of course it would've been nice but not everyone can get what they ask for and if resources are taken away from one thing that people enjoy, it could be put into something that they don't enjoy just as likely.
 

NoOtherPersona

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so i ain't got nothing to add to this stage topic so here's a dope song
please enjoy
 

GoodGrief741

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What drew me in, mostly, was the characters. You know, the crossover aspect. And the concept of fighting on stages from all these different video games. I never actually owned Melee and instead only played it at a friend's house, but Brawl was the first game in the series I actually owned. But even back then while there were fun stages like Smashville (especially when KK was playing) and Delfino, other stages from games I loved like Spear Pillar and Mario Bros. weren't good to play on at all, what with the Shellcreepers and Sidesteppers plaguing the latter while Dialga and ESPECIALLY Palkia ruined the former. Even then I thought, "man, this is great, but I wish there were better layouts for these stages."

The announcement of Omega Stages in 4 was incredibly hype for me for exactly that reason. I didn't need to worry about a stage I really wanted getting in only for its layout to make me hate playing on it. The addition of Battlefield forms made that even better, since I like Battlefield a lot more than Final Destination. Now I could fight on my favorite locations in gaming with my favorite characters with even more great songs playing in the background.

The addition of stage forms opened up a wealth of new stage options for me, and even singlehandedly salvaged ones like Spiral Mountain and 75M.
Yeah, I get it now. The game is what it is, but now I can see why it can be attractive to some. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
I'm always happy when a highly requested character like that gets in, because all those people will need someone new to request. And maybe that someone will be someone *I* care about.
Now for my essay "Geno and Kunio: why they're more similar than you'd think!"
Well I never said it was an ideal solution. But it is a (literal) price to pay to get the game sooner rather than later, because I'm fairly sure Nintendo didn't want to delay the game after it's reveal last year. And with DLC, they could always add more after the game's released and everyone's playing it. One advantage to DLC is that if you really don't want that content, you don't have to buy it.

That said, I wouldn't exactly say the game is 'lacking' in content per se. Sakurai's already spoiling us like crazy with the game's current content even if absolute shiny new stuff wasn't as much as it could've been. There's a lot of things that were left out of the game (trophies, break the targets, even some older stages, etc) and there's an infinite amount of other things that could've been put into the game. It's a matter of perspective as you could choose to focus on what isn't in the game or focus on what is.

You don't like battlefield and FD forms? Fine. But some of us like to be able to play Brinstar Depths without getting all topsy turvy, perhaps we like the aesthetic of Great Cave Offensive but it's just straight up obnoxious to play on due to it's size and hazards but there's a work around for those who want it. Would I have liked Phendrana Drifts or something like that, of course it would've been nice but not everyone can get what they ask for and if resources are taken away from one thing that people enjoy, it could be put into something that they don't enjoy just as likely.
I do feel that the game was lacking in new content overall, but it is true that the best solution would have been to delay the game. I do think that the new content that each game brings really is what makes each game memorable for me, and in the stage department Ultimate really didn't make an impact due to an overreliance on returning stages.
 

perfectchaos83

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That's always the thing about bullet hell shooters. It looks impressive to fill the entire screen with 1000 bullets. But only the, like, 20 that actually pass by your ship actually matter. The rest is just eye candy.
It's far more than that. It's about limiting your movement. You may only need to pay attention to the 20 or so around you, but it means you can't go around that 20 bullets and be free. You just have another 20 bullets you need to pay attention to.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I know Beat would never make it as a character, but I would buy a Mii costume of him...
A beat helmet would be great!
...with any Jet Set Radio song in a heartbeat. Jet Set Radio has defined my taste in music more than any singular album ever has.
Oh. You weren't talking about the bird.

The addition of stage forms opened up a wealth of new stage options for me, and even singlehandedly salvaged ones like Spiral Mountain...
What's wrong with Spiral Mountain (causally)?

It's far more than that. It's about limiting your movement. You may only need to pay attention to the 20 or so around you, but it means you can't go around that 20 bullets and be free. You just have another 20 bullets you need to pay attention to.
I'd imagine that if they did add a Touhou Project character that character would be the new most hated online character 'cuz bullets. Bullets everywhere. Also bombs.
 

Ovaltine

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When are Geno fans going to cope with the fact he's most likely going to be a full blown costume like Sans?
You kidding me? If he got a full upgraded costume that looks like him and came with music like Sans, I'd be over the moon. I'd VERY happily take that because at least it feels like I'm playing as Geno.

What I fear is a straight port of his Sm4sh costume lol.
 
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