Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[RoboFist]

I also kind of appreciate the fact that Sakurai basically said, "I hear you, but I don't care" to the competitive Smash community. It's still his game and his product, and he's not going to bend on that point haha.

Especially after everything he and Nintendo have done with Ultimate to pry competitive players away from Melee haha. "No, guys, it's super cool that you guys enjoy playing in professional tournaments and stuff, and you're welcome for all of the technical changes we brought to Ultimate, but for real this time, Smash Bros. is supposed to be a party game! Here's an entire character to drive that point home!"

I know a lot of Smash fans who assume/hope that Sakurai or his team are browsing the internet looking for ideas and suggestions, but man I'm glad he really isn't. Aside from the Ballot (which, at the end of the day, I think was ridiculously successful), he and Nintendo seem to just be doing their own thing, which allows us to get insane playstyles like Hero's. I'm glad they're not bending to the ever-changing whims of fans who keep moving the goalpost.

Also, this whole backstory with Sakurai approaching the heads of Enix and talking about DQ representation has been the most interesting discussion on this thread in ages. Thanks to all who collected that data and shared it with the rest of the class.

 

[Deleted member]

I also kind of appreciate the fact that Sakurai basically said, "I hear you, but I don't care" to the competitive Smash community. It's still his game and his product, and he's not going to bend on that point haha.

Hero is some of the most fun I've had with Ultimate. No way in Hell do I want him nerfed in any capacity due to RNG.

That said, I do agree that his down-b spells should be color-coded with universal symbols.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

F!Byleth's tights might be ugly but I love her and I love her hair.

Her tights are great.

 

[ZelDan]

The two indies I wanted most were Shovel Knight and Sans, so that's a pretty big oof right there for me. (though the Sans Mii costume atleast actually looks exactly like him and came with megalovania so...still kinda cool).

As someone who does play Smash in a more competitive style, I'm not against hero's moveset in theory. I could see his down B being an issue though in actual international tournaments where people from different parts of the world play and I could see language barriers complicating things. I'm also not entirely a fan of the crit move. Not that I think the move should make hero banned or anything like that, but if one move had to be nerfed or made less powerful I'd definitely say it should be the crit move.

 

[Flyboy]

Her tights are great.

To each their own. I think they're a little overly complicated and could've been simpler visually.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Yeah, that tracks. Either Gunvolt or Quote Cavestory. But with the current state of Nicalis, I wouldn't blame Sakurai for leaving Cave Story repless.

Which would make me upset since Cave Story is my favorite indie game and it deserves better. Furthermore, being owned by a company with a bad reputation isn't stopping demand for other characters like Crash despite how awful Activision is. I wouldn't blame Sakurai either, but it'd still be very unfortunate since neither Cave Story nor Pixel are to blame for this.

 

[AmphabulouSnake]

The one indie character that has a chance to me right now is Reimu, definitely helps that Touhou is MASSIVE in Japan lol.
If Undertale could only get a mii costume, I really can't see someone like Quote or Hollow Knight getting in, maybe a mii costume at best...

 

[DarthEnderX]

It would be cool to have a Sans Gunner costume, a Hollow Knight Swordfighter costume, and a Shantae Brawler costume,

Shovel Knight Swordfighter.

 

[Deleted member]

I wonder if Final Fantasy music is in the same situation as DQ, if so I could potentially see someone like Sephiroth or Terra being added later on.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I wonder if Final Fantasy music is in the same situation as DQ, if so I could potentially see someone like Sephiroth or Terra being added later on.

God, Uematsu is one of the greatest composers we've ever known just because of Dancing Mad and the idea of more of his delightful music is simply amazing. And I never even ****ing played Final Fantasy

 

[SKX31]

I'm playing as Hero in a local tourney in a couple of weeks, and from what I can tell I might be the only one. (While I fully expect to lose to more experienced players with better choice in characters, I still want to play Hero because I think he's just a ton of fun.)

Hey, why not? Tiers don't matter as much when in locals or online - even though they give a very, very rough idea of matchups*. I don't think Hero has any really horrible matchup. Such as Little Mac getting trounced by Pacman.

I wonder if Final Fantasy music is in the same situation as DQ, if so I could potentially see someone like Sephiroth or Terra being added later on.

Could see it, depending on if Sakurai and S-E managed to get through the licensing issues and copyright stuff. I do doubt that it'll actually happen - but the best shot at expanding Ultimate's FF content likely comes with FF7R and its release. Doesn't Cloud have a new English VA in that game?

*(Cloudisstillprettygood,lowhightieratbest)

 

[NoOtherPersona]

It's crazy that DQ11 comes out tomorrow and I can finally play it that was the main reason I got the switch along with SMT V which I don't think we'll see more of till 2020 but it's just crazy 2019 is an awesome year to be a DQ fan went from awww we get games if they feel like it to BOOM HERO IN SMASH WHAT YOU WANT MORE? DQ11S IS BETTER THEN PS4 AND 2D AND YOU GET IT AT THE SAMETIME AS JAPAN. I don't know lol just makes me happy

 

[Nemuresu]

The DQ livestream is very interesting. So much behind the scene things from Sakurai.
Just Hero bit here. I don't want to translate all but you should be looking forward for full-translation from PushDustIn.
Demands for DQ was always there but Sakurai thought it was just impossible however Nintendo said to him this time may be they can make it happen.
SE suggested Slime first but Sakurai really wanted Hero. Hero was first only had 11 and 3 skins but Horii gave him go for the others. Sakurai really wanted DQ3 hero and he had intention to create 8 different Heroes but he couldn't do it because of time constraints. The image of DQ1 hero is too varied and DQ5 protagonist is not a sword-wielder so they went with DQ4 hero instead. DQ8 protagonist was for overseas.
The concept of Hero was to represent the big-hearted, easygoing and generous feelings that DQ has. He knows that competitive players tend to dislike randomness but Smash is always meant to be a loose game.

Heh, guess that implies that Nintendo just found their way to make these negotiations go smooth. Comes to show how little issue they have with third-party licenses and whatnot.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Hey, why not? Tiers don't matter as much when in locals or online - even though they give a very, very rough idea of matchups*. I don't think Hero has any really horrible matchup. Such as Little Mac getting trounced by Pacman.

I don't wanna go off-topic since this isn't a competitive character thread. But I want to say that Hero gets shut down by rushdown characters as they don't give him room to breathe. Joker in particular might be one of his worst match ups.

The one indie character that has a chance to me right now is Reimu, definitely helps that Touhou is MASSIVE in Japan lol.
If Undertale could only get a mii costume, I really can't see someone like Quote or Hollow Knight getting in, maybe a mii costume at best...

I think so as well. I always thought that Touhou would get a playable fighter in Smash before any of the other indies.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

One thing I know about Touhou is that a friend of mine was livid I figured out how to move past bullets and get behind a boss 6 years ago and I told him "Dude just pay attention to your character and bullets around them when there's a million little orbs on screen and not the boss".

The other thing is that UN OWEN WAS HER managed to convince people Flandre is this super important character

 

[DarthEnderX]

One thing I know about Touhou is that a friend of mine was livid I figured out how to move past bullets and get behind a boss 6 years ago and I told him "Dude just pay attention to your character and bullets around them when there's a million little orbs on screen and not the boss".

That's always the thing about bullet hell shooters. It looks impressive to fill the entire screen with 1000 bullets. But only the, like, 20 that actually pass by your ship actually matter. The rest is just eye candy.

 

[Wunderwaft]

The other thing is that UN OWEN WAS HER managed to convince people Flandre is this super important character

Which makes it even funnier because Flandre's only major appearance was her debut game as an extra boss. Flan definitely owes her popularity to her theme song.

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

That's always the thing about bullet hell shooters. It looks impressive to fill the entire screen with 1000 bullets. But only the, like, 20 that actually pass by your ship actually matter. The rest is just eye candy.

In the case of Touhou, that excess is turned into a narrative strength as the characters are deliberately trying to show off

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Anyway I will write a formal letter expressing my disappointment if we can't get Capcom VS SNK music

Me whenever I play Capcom vs SNK 2 pic.twitter.com/5u2WPzEiWu

— Goose (@Fujyno) September 26, 2019

 

[SvartWolf]

who owns the right for Capcom vs SNK music? :S Capcom? SNK? Both? Neither?

 

[Deleted member]

Dynasty Warriors is a pretty iconic franchise and I could see it getting in down the line, but it's no Ninja Gaiden. The original Ninja Gaiden trilogy is synonymous with the NES and difficult games and the modern trilogy is one of the premiere character action. Dynasty Warriors invented (or at least codified) a genre, but it's kind of stuck in a more niche space outside of Japan (which also makes it more impressive that it's still so renowned).

I think the comparison is like saying Pac-Man and Heihachi were in competition to be Bandai Namco's first character. Yeah, they're both huge, but one was clearly going to get in before the other. Of course, Ryu H. is no Pac-Man and Dynasty Warriors is not Tekken, but I hope you get the point I'm trying to make.

Still something worse considering (alongside DoA, which nobody talks about either). I only played one Dynasty Warriors game as a kid, and I can't remember anything about the plot, so enlighten me: who would be the character they'd choose to rep the series?

I never got around to responding to the question about who would be chosen to rep Dynasty Warriors now that I have started working, so here's my answer to that question:

Since he's the poster boy of the franchise, Zhao Yun would most likely be the 1 to rep the series. Lu Bu may be more memorable since he's intentionally designed as 1 of the strongest characters throughout the games, but Zhao Yun's 1 of the most popular characters in Japan, which is probably pretty crazy considering Dynasty Warriors has a roster that's currently bigger than Ultimate's.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I also kind of appreciate the fact that Sakurai basically said, "I hear you, but I don't care" to the competitive Smash community. It's still his game and his product, and he's not going to bend on that point haha.

This so much. To be honest, I wish they didn't spend so many resources on making three versions of stages for the people that hate fun. Just a hazard toggle would suffice.

 

[yeet123]

This so much. To be honest, I wish they didn't spend so many resources on making three versions of stages for the people that hate fun. Just a hazard toggle would suffice.

NO ITEMS. FINAL DESTINATION. FOX ONLY. DONT BE A *****

 

[EricTheGamerman]

This so much. To be honest, I wish they didn't spend so many resources on making three versions of stages for the people that hate fun. Just a hazard toggle would suffice.

I wouldn’t go that far. I really appreciate being able to play on battlefield versions of stages with the music and aesthetic of the parent stage because I really dislike how some of the stages are even with Hazards off. Moray Tower, for example, is a stage I rarely enjoy playing on, but I love playing based in the Splatoon universe, so I really appreciate a Battlefield form then.

 

[SNEKeater]

who owns the right for Capcom vs SNK music? :S Capcom? SNK? Both? Neither?

As far as I know Capcom has the rights.

I know it's unlikely but one man can dream, Capcom has been very nice in regards to Smash so maybe, maaaaaybe, they will be nice and give 1 or 2 songs from CvS games.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

who owns the right for Capcom vs SNK music? :S Capcom? SNK? Both? Neither?

For Capcom vs. SNK? Capcom. For SNK vs. Capcom? SNK.

Edit: Same thing happened with SNK vs. Capcom and Capcom vs. SNK that was supposed to happen with Street Fighter X Tekken and Tekken X Street Fighter. One company make one and the other make the other. Capcom made CvS and SNK made SvC. Capcom made SFxTK and Namco was supposed to make TKxSF if that ever happens.

 

[Garteam]

A little late to the party, but Dragon Quest being intended for the base game makes a lot of sense. Both Brawl and Smash for introduced two third parties for the base game, so it's logical that two would be planned for Ultimate's base game with Castlevania and Dragon Quest.

It does kinda make me wonder, which came first, Luminary or Erdrick? Was Erdrick always the plan with the protagonist of the then upcoming Dragon Quest XI planned as an alt, or was a spot left open for the newest Dragon Quest Hero with a classic alt being planned?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Also for third parties who have Spirits in base: I’d definitely think Shantae has a shot. She’s demanded like CRAZY, I’d say her demand is on the level of Waluigi, Isaac and the already confirmed guys:

You sure about that Rie?

Shantae is pretty popular in the Core and Indie fanbase, but she's near nonexistent in Japan. Furthermore, the characters you listed have incredibly variable demand, from quite possibly the most popular character in the world K. Rool to popular in America Ridley & Banjo to mass meme phenomenon Waluigi to Isaac. He's popular in the core fanbase? Europe too?

From my perspective Shantae's less popular than Isaac, which isn't very good.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

For Capcom vs. SNK? Capcom. For SNK vs. Capcom? SNK.

Edit: Same thing happened with SNK vs. Capcom and Capcom vs. SNK that was supposed to happen with Street Fighter X Tekken and Tekken X Street Fighter. One company make one and the other make the other. Capcom made CvS and SNK made SvC. Capcom made SFxTK and Namco was supposed to make TKxSF if that ever happens.

this is all we will need fam

 

[UberPyro64]

WHAT IF SCENARIO: Doom Slayer and Geno are shadow dropped at The Game Awards.

How would you guys feel?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

WHAT IF SCENARIO: Doom Slayer and Geno are shadow dropped at The Game Awards.

How would you guys feel?

Eh.

About as much as I'd expect. Doom Slayer is H Y P E but Geno is a pretty tepid way to start post-Fighters Pass DLC when you put it into perspective.

 

[Megadoomer]

WHAT IF SCENARIO: Doom Slayer and Geno are shadow dropped at The Game Awards.

How would you guys feel?

Those are two of my top three most wanted characters, so that would be pretty neat.

In all seriousness, I'd be more excited for that announcement than any Smash-related announcement aside from Bayonetta (a long-shot that I wanted to see make it in but figured it would never happen), Banjo-Kazooie (a long-shot that I wanted to see make it in but figured it would never happen) or the Direct that showed off Ridley and every veteran returning. (that was so satisfying)

 

[yeet123]

WHAT IF SCENARIO: Doom Slayer and Geno are shadow dropped at The Game Awards.

How would you guys feel?

id be so pissed. i hate smash bros

 

[MainJPW]

this is all we will need fam

Can't have one without the other my guy.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

WHAT IF SCENARIO: Doom Slayer and Geno are shadow dropped at The Game Awards.

How would you guys feel?

Doom Slayer: Boo.
Geno: Yay for his fans and for fan favorites being made playable.

 

[DarthEnderX]

You people and your amazing CvS2 music disgust me...

This so much. To be honest, I wish they didn't spend so many resources on making three versions of stages for the people that hate fun. Just a hazard toggle would suffice.

I think it's weird you think the Battlefield/FD reskins took a bunch of resources to make.

 

[Aetheri]

This so much. To be honest, I wish they didn't spend so many resources on making three versions of stages for the people that hate fun. Just a hazard toggle would suffice.

Your version of fun is different than someone else's version of fun.

 

[NoOtherPersona]

Can't have one without the other my guy.

BRO HOW HAVE I NEVER HEARD THIS I NEED THIS ONE TOO you know what just take the WHOLE CAP VS SNK AND PUT IT IN SMASH

 

[GoodGrief741]

You people and your amazing CvS2 music disgust me...

I think it's weird you think the Battlefield/FD reskins took a bunch of resources to make.

Definitely takes resources to make that stuff, especially for over 100 stages. We only got 4 new stages for the game so those resources could have definitely been better allocated elsewhere.

Your version of fun is different than someone else's version of fun.

If someone's version of fun is the flat stage in the wacky party game, great for them. But don't spend extra resources on them when they already have stages that suit their needs. It's clear that Sakurai's vision of Smash doesn't agree with the Final Destination-only crowd.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

BRO HOW HAVE I NEVER HEARD THIS I NEED THIS ONE TOO you know what just take the WHOLE CAP VS SNK AND PUT IT IN SMASH

Oh dude you have no idea. Late 90's/Early 2000's Capcom fighting games had the biggest bangers. Go listen to Street Fighter III, X-Men vs. Street Fighter, Marvel vs. Capcom, Marvel vs. Capcom 2, Capcom vs. SNK, and Darkstalkers 3. All have dope ass soundtracks.