Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SvartWolf]

Picture this.. chun li as a newcomer, with a stage based actually in SF3 china stage and SF3, MVC2 and CAPvSNK hits...

Although i wouldntsay no to morrigan neither

 

[Idon]

Picture this.. chun li as a newcomer, with a stage based actually in SF3 china stage and SF3, MVC2 and CAPvSNK hits...

Although i wouldntsay no to morrigan neither

I love Chun Li as much as the next guy that buys 30 costumes of her in SFV, but the next Capcom character being another Street Fighter character and not one of their many many many many many popular franchises would be a major bummer to me.

 

[SvartWolf]

I love Chun Li as much as the next guy that buys 30 costumes of her in SFV, but the next Capcom character being another Street Fighter character and not one of their many many many many many popular franchises would be a major bummer to me.

while i think the same ( my most wanted capcom rep are actually morrigan and amateratsu) i Think that Chun li is THE exception were i would actually say wow, she fits smash like a glove.

Still i was just poking fun than she can rep the Capcom vs Games... since so many people were drooling about those tracks.

Edit: or maybe i just don't care too much about the next Capcom rep because ive never played too much resident evil, devil May cry, or monster hunter which certainly are the biggest heavy hitters... my capcom picks are rather niche...

(i know you can do it, Firebrand, i trust in you)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I love Chun Li as much as the next guy that buys 30 costumes of her in SFV, but the next Capcom character being another Street Fighter character and not one of their many many many many many popular franchises would be a major bummer to me.

Unless it was an echo I'd like to get the other heavy hitters out of the way so Amaterasu can have her time to shine. lol

 

[Nemuresu]

I love Chun Li as much as the next guy that buys 30 costumes of her in SFV, but the next Capcom character being another Street Fighter character and not one of their many many many many many popular franchises would be a major bummer to me.

Maybe for you, but the music selection for Street Fighter is gutter trash (exceptions being the two Smash remixes), and if there's a way to improve it, I'll take it.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Maybe for you, but the music selection for Street Fighter is gutter trash (exceptions being the two Smash remixes), and if there's a way to improve it, I'll take it.

I'm mostly disappointed that all the songs are from SF2. Would have loved some songs from Alpha, 3 and 4.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Maybe for you, but the music selection for Street Fighter is gutter trash (exceptions being the two Smash remixes), and if there's a way to improve it, I'll take it.

There are actually four of them (Ryu, Ken, Guile, Vega). All of them are amazing. The rest of it's pretty much just Street Fighter II Turbo's soundtrack. I think the soundfont kills it to be honest.

 

[ErenJager]

I subscribe to the idea that current/ present representation of a series/ franchise in Smash disqualifies the chances of that character appearing as a playable fighter in future DLC.
The reason why I believe this is because ever since Joker's reveal at the Video Game Awards, Reggie gave us some insight on the Fighter's Pass.
He stated the DLC would be entirely new to Smash just like Joker from Persona 5.
At the time a lot of people brushed this off as political or corporate talk not to be taken seriously or literally.
Since then however all the DLC in the fighters pass has been exactly that.
Characters from series entirely new to Smash with not so much as that characters series/ franchise being previously established or existing in Smash in any way shape or form.
At the VGA's Reggie had some ambitious words, he said something along of the lines of "Smash is dare I say, the largest crossover in entertainment" to which the host was quick to point out that the Russo's may have something to say about that. It seems there is some kind of sentiment at Nintendo to make Smash a record holder or title holder for crossovers in some aspect.

Fast forward to Sakurai's Banjo direct game play.
He said some curious things like he looks forward to doing as many collaborations as possible.
There was also mention of crossing over as many new game worlds as possible.
Granted this has been pointed out to be translators choice of words, and not precisely Sakurai's words.
However none-the-less this is still an officially approved translation by Nintendo, which still means something.
It looks like there is ambition or strive to make Smash a significant crossover.

So if a series can be represented by music, spirits, AT's, Mii's, or a playable fighter...
I don't believe Nintendo/ Sakurai would double down on series/ franchises that already have some sort of representation in Smash.
Because if the goal is to increase to total number of cross overed series, it would make more sense to introduce an entirely new series, currently not in Smash to increase the total number of over all series featured in Smash.

I think going forward even after Fighter's Pass #1 is done, the further DLC will continue the trend of being entirely new to Smash to increase it's over all crossover count.
Subsequently I think you'll see Geno, Lloyd, and Heihachi return as Mii's just as the other missing Mii's have slowly returned over time, as this continues a flow of revenue for involved companies as well.
I look heavily at Soulcalibur for a potential second Namco character, but I suppose Digimon and Tamigotchi are also viable... they just seem less imaginable in my perception, however that would make them a much more exciting inclusion.

As for speculation for the future DLC characters, i'd look to the big video game series currently not present in Smash.
I think you're more likely to see Japanese based characters/ series more frequently because Sakurai seems to worry about language barriers and his instructions being followed. (The Grant Hopekirk music comments he made). But Western characters are also increasingly more likely with Sakurai opening up to Banjo, Sans, etc. and having these positive responses and outcomes.

I don't take these perceptions as gospel though, surely a spirit could become playable.
This is just my own perceptions based on whats been said by the official sources and established trends in DLC.
It's not 100% concrete it's just an impression i've gathered.

 

[Nemuresu]

There are actually four of them (Ryu, Ken, Guile, Vega). All of them are amazing. The rest of it's pretty much just Street Fighter II Turbo's soundtrack. I think the soundfont kills it to be honest.

I was thinking only of the additions from Ultimate, but you're right about the remixes.

What kills it isn't much the soundfont, but rather the overall lack of creativity to include more varied songs. I mean, why would there be a need to include two variations of the SF2 themes when they're all essentially the same with different instrumentations? It's not like the "pace change" property is such an important thing when Vega and Guile's themes don't even have them despite being added to Ryu and Ken's remixes.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Not as many does not equal none. For example, Sakurai has gone on record that he had the choice of adding six clones or one unique in Melee.

Ackshually, Sakurai never said that.

His statement on "clones vs. a unique character" is as follows:

“If I could add one or two more characters, then Wario could have gotten in. Of all the characters I discarded, he’s ranked near the top.


However, even if I didn’t work on several clone characters he wouldn’t have gotten in.


Even if I deleted characters from before (Jigglypuff, Luigi) he wouldn’t have gotten in.


You might think it’s impossible that even if we delete one character in development that it couldn’t be replaced with another character….


I would have needed to get rid of both Marth and Roy or Mewtwo in order for Wario to get in

Even without the clones in Melee Wario wouldn't have been added.

Your argument kinda falls apart with this major premise knocked down. The Battlefield and FD stages probably weren't anything major in terms of development time, or at the very least aren't the reason x stage or y character or z feature didn't make it in.

 

[TheYungLink]

I don't play Street Fighter but my favorite song from seeing matches at a friend's house once was Jazzy NYC '99 when they played SFIII Third Strike.

All I'm saying is if Chun-Li came into Smash as DLC (probably after another Capcom character so people don't think other Capcom series are being ignored) with more Street Fighter music, and if this song was included, then we'll be closer than ever before at being able to faithfully recreate the legendary Daigo parry with Ken against Justin Wong's Chun-Li.

 

[NintenZ]

So I was gonna post my list of characters I think have a solid chance of getting in today, but after thinking a few things over I’ve decided I’m gonna delay posting for just a bit.

Expect it soon however.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Now for my essay "Geno and Kunio: why they're more similar than you'd think!"

Lol, indeed.

"Sora and Bill Rizer: Two Great Tastes that Go Great Together."

Picture this.. chun li as a newcomer, with a stage based actually in SF3 china stage and SF3, MVC2 and CAPvSNK hits...

Although i wouldntsay no to morrigan neither

I'd prefer Morrigan. Cause, ya know, new series and all.

 

[TheAJJohnson]

You kidding me? If he got a full upgraded costume that looks like him and came with music like Sans, I'd be over the moon. I'd VERY happily take that because at least it feels like I'm playing as Geno.

What I fear is a straight port of his Sm4sh costume lol.

I'd be totally OK with this as long as we get Beware the Forest Mushrooms. As cool as it would be to have Geno in the game, if I have to be honest with myself, I love that song more than him

I subscribe to the idea that current/ present representation of a series/ franchise in Smash disqualifies the chances of that character appearing as a playable fighter in future DLC.
The reason why I believe this is because ever since Joker's reveal at the Video Game Awards, Reggie gave us some insight on the Fighter's Pass.
He stated the DLC would be entirely new to Smash just like Joker from Persona 5.
At the time a lot of people brushed this off as political or corporate talk not to be taken seriously or literally.
Since then however all the DLC in the fighters pass has been exactly that.
Characters from series entirely new to Smash with not so much as that characters series/ franchise being previously established or existing in Smash in any way shape or form.
At the VGA's Reggie had some ambitious words, he said something along of the lines of "Smash is dare I say, the largest crossover in entertainment" to which the host was quick to point out that the Russo's may have something to say about that. It seems there is some kind of sentiment at Nintendo to make Smash a record holder or title holder for crossovers in some aspect.

Fast forward to Sakurai's Banjo direct game play.
He said some curious things like he looks forward to doing as many collaborations as possible.
There was also mention of crossing over as many new game worlds as possible.
Granted this has been pointed out to be translators choice of words, and not precisely Sakurai's words.
However none-the-less this is still an officially approved translation by Nintendo, which still means something.
It looks like there is ambition or strive to make Smash a significant crossover.

So if a series can be represented by music, spirits, AT's, Mii's, or a playable fighter...
I don't believe Nintendo/ Sakurai would double down on series/ franchises that already have some sort of representation in Smash.
Because if the goal is to increase to total number of cross overed series, it would make more sense to introduce an entirely new series, currently not in Smash to increase the total number of over all series featured in Smash.

I think going forward even after Fighter's Pass #1 is done, the further DLC will continue the trend of being entirely new to Smash to increase it's over all crossover count.
Subsequently I think you'll see Geno, Lloyd, and Heihachi return as Mii's just as the other missing Mii's have slowly returned over time, as this continues a flow of revenue for involved companies as well.
I look heavily at Soulcalibur for a potential second Namco character, but I suppose Digimon and Tamigotchi are also viable... they just seem less imaginable in my perception, however that would make them a much more exciting inclusion.

As for speculation for the future DLC characters, i'd look to the big video game series currently not present in Smash.
I think you're more likely to see Japanese based characters/ series more frequently because Sakurai seems to worry about language barriers and his instructions being followed. (The Grant Hopekirk music comments he made). But Western characters are also increasingly more likely with Sakurai opening up to Banjo, Sans, etc. and having these positive responses and outcomes.

I don't take these perceptions as gospel though, surely a spirit could become playable.
This is just my own perceptions based on whats been said by the official sources and established trends in DLC.
It's not 100% concrete it's just an impression i've gathered.

This is a well thought out conclusion, IMO. I think a majority of our DLC will be in this vein. However, it's also important to remember that Sakurai said he hopes to please more fans with the additional DLC. I would be surprised if an Isaac or Geno didn't sneak in there, or something like that.

 

[7NATOR]

Alright Guys im sorry im doing this again, but im just can't get enough of Shadow but...

I just came up with a theory that Shadow was planned to be DLC from the start, but as the extra dlc. I Write up more detailed explanation later. anyway I Don't think the extra DLC is ENTIRELY unplanned. I think some of the extra dlc was planned and i think we would have gotten these anyway unless either the Fighter Pass flopped, Smash Ultimate flopped, or the Switch flopped, which neither did. I Think Shadow will be one of these extra characters

He's an assist trophy for reasons

1. adds some uniqueness to his inclusion, being the first assist Trophy character to be playable in same game

2. Would make Shadow a surprise. it would be way too suspicious if Shadow was just missing from Assist Trophy role

3. in the case that the Fighter Pass didn't sell well, Smash Ultimate flopped, or the Switch itself flopped, Shadow probably wouldn't be DLC, but he would at least have content in game

As for why he's not DLC in fighter pass, it's cause i think the Fighter pass was more geared towards new franchises, which Shadow is not one of those. I think at least with Fighter pass, Sakurai wanted to get in as many new franchises as possible, and if Fighter pass did not sell well, Characters from already represented franchises have chance next game

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

There's nothing to base this off of, as far as I can tell. It seems like the most logical time to bring back Geno's Mii costume would have been when they added a Square-Enix character as DLC, like when they did the same thing in Smash 4, but that didn't happen. As of now, there's nothing to indicate that his Mii costume will or won't return.

It's more of a feeling than something I expect. Just that since Sans got a very accurate costume, I feel like the same could be done for Geno, because all it would have to do is add a new head, plus it could come with a song.

While not saying Geno fans should give up on him being playable, at this point, I feel like a costume is the most he's gonna be.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Ackshually, Sakurai never said that.

His statement on "clones vs. a unique character" is as follows:

Even without the clones in Melee Wario wouldn't have been added.

Your argument kinda falls apart with this major premise knocked down. The Battlefield and FD stages probably weren't anything major in terms of development time, or at the very least aren't the reason x stage or y character or z feature didn't make it in.

First off, thanks for clarifying that, I gotta stop using that quote now.

Second, whether or not that applies to my argument depends on more than what's said there. The reason why clones can't be cut to add characters is because clones are added at the end of development, not because there isn't an equivalency in work. (Not to mention that the whole part about clones being added last is suspect as it contradicts other Sakurai statements, but I lean towards it being true for several reasons)

The decision to make three forms of each stage isn't likely made at the last minute but is rather a part of the plan from the beginning, so choosing not to do that from the get-go means resources are free from day one to expend on other stuff.

It's more of a feeling than something I expect. Just that since Sans got a very accurate costume, I feel like the same could be done for Geno, because all it would have to do is add a new head, plus it could come with a song.

While not saying Geno fans should give up on him being playable, at this point, I feel like a costume is the most he's gonna be.

Well, your original post was a pretty definitive statement when all you have backing you is a hunch.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I've been teaching myself how to rip 3DS and Wii games, here's my current top 3 most-wanted characters that I've extracted.

Spoiler

I highly doubt any of them have a snowball's chance in HFIL, especially with the focus on third parties, but I would be happy to see any of them in.

 

[Ben Holt]

Yesterday, I was thinking about the difference between Fighter's Pass characters and Bonus Characters.
It struck me that Bonus characters don't need to have music and a stage included. This makes me think that a second full blown Fighter's Pass is inevitable, and it will once again be all third parties.
That means that Nintendo newcomers would be in the same boat as Piranha Plant, unless they are from a series without a stage. So Isaac would be in a pack, but Bandana Waddle Dee wouldn't.
Just a thought.

Edit: Here's my ideal five bonus characters (no Assist Trophies):
Piranha Plant, Bandana Waddle Dee, Impa, Toad, Paper Mario.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Yesterday, I was thinking about the difference between Fighter's Pass characters and Bonus Characters.
It struck me that Bonus characters don't need to have music and a stage included. This makes me think that a second full blown Fighter's Pass is inevitable, and it will once again be all third parties.
That means that Nintendo newcomers would be in the same boat as Piranha Plant, unless they are from a series without a stage. So Isaac would be in a pack, but Bandana Waddle Dee wouldn't.
Just a thought.

Edit: Here's my ideal five bonus characters (no Assist Trophies):
Piranha Plant, Bandana Waddle Dee, Impa, Toad, Paper Mario.

I agree. But I would bet that we get two more fighters passes, each with one more first party representative with them. Expands the worlds of Smash while expanding upon representation where its due.

 

[osby]

Alright Guys im sorry im doing this again, but im just can't get enough of Shadow but...

I just came up with a theory that Shadow was planned to be DLC from the start, but as the extra dlc. I Write up more detailed explanation later. anyway I Don't think the extra DLC is ENTIRELY unplanned. I think some of the extra dlc was planned and i think we would have gotten these anyway unless either the Fighter Pass flopped, Smash Ultimate flopped, or the Switch flopped, which neither did. I Think Shadow will be one of these extra characters

He's an assist trophy for reasons

1. adds some uniqueness to his inclusion, being the first assist Trophy character to be playable in same game

2. Would make Shadow a surprise. it would be way too suspicious if Shadow was just missing from Assist Trophy role

3. in the case that the Fighter Pass didn't sell well, Smash Ultimate flopped, or the Switch itself flopped, Shadow probably wouldn't be DLC, but he would at least have content in game

As for why he's not DLC in fighter pass, it's cause i think the Fighter pass was more geared towards new franchises, which Shadow is not one of those. I think at least with Fighter pass, Sakurai wanted to get in as many new franchises as possible, and if Fighter pass did not sell well, Characters from already represented franchises have chance next game

I don't know, this sounds like a conspiracy theory than anything. There's no reason to go such big lengths for Shadow when we got like ten third parties with zero weird planning.

Plus, most of your points can be applied to any Assist Trophy, not just Shadow. Also, making a character an AT just to give their playable reveal more "uniqueness" and "surprise" is a waste of resources than anything.

I'd love Shadow, but if he gets in, it'll because of his fan demand, not because Nintendo plays 4D chess behind the scenes for months.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Last time I'm gonna say it... Eggman would be so much tighter than Shadow.

 

[osby]

Last time I'm gonna say it... Eggman would be so much tighter than Shadow.

Pretty much everyone assumes Shadow would be an echo. There's not much point in comparing the two.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Pretty much everyone assumes Shadow would be an echo. There's not much point in comparing the two.

I just compare everyone as though they would be original fully fleshed characters, since there's absolutely no confirmation we'll get any DLC echos.

 

[Aetheri]

Yesterday, I was thinking about the difference between Fighter's Pass characters and Bonus Characters.
It struck me that Bonus characters don't need to have music and a stage included. This makes me think that a second full blown Fighter's Pass is inevitable, and it will once again be all third parties.
That means that Nintendo newcomers would be in the same boat as Piranha Plant, unless they are from a series without a stage. So Isaac would be in a pack, but Bandana Waddle Dee wouldn't.
Just a thought.

Edit: Here's my ideal five bonus characters (no Assist Trophies):
Piranha Plant, Bandana Waddle Dee, Impa, Toad, Paper Mario.

That depends on what the franchise and what stages are in the game.

A character like let's say Elma for example, her series is present in Smash with a stage, but her home game itself has very little content in Smash as is with no stage and no music. Even though she's first party she could be an ideal candidate for the Fighter's Pass because of the amount of new content she could bring. Another good example (ignoring the assist trophy status for the sake of the argument) would be Spring Man, once again Arms doesn't have a stage and music (though to be honest I don't remember if it has music, so I could be wrong).
Bandanna Dee could be another good example since Smash lacks content from Modern Kirby titles. But for him as an example Kirby itself does already have a ton of content unlike the aforementioned Xenoblade and Arms, which would be more ideal as a way to "expand" dong the worlds of Smash. I think first parties still have a better chance than we are giving them credit for. It's just a bigger deal to add third parties.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

.


What's wrong with Spiral Mountain (causally)?
/QUOTE]
Opossum said the stage gave him motion sickness

 

[osby]

Yesterday, I was thinking about the difference between Fighter's Pass characters and Bonus Characters.
It struck me that Bonus characters don't need to have music and a stage included. This makes me think that a second full blown Fighter's Pass is inevitable, and it will once again be all third parties.
That means that Nintendo newcomers would be in the same boat as Piranha Plant, unless they are from a series without a stage. So Isaac would be in a pack, but Bandana Waddle Dee wouldn't.
Just a thought.

Edit: Here's my ideal five bonus characters (no Assist Trophies):
Piranha Plant, Bandana Waddle Dee, Impa, Toad, Paper Mario.

They can just sell fighter+stage+music packs separately like they did in Smash 4. I imagine Geno would be in a unique position, though, since he's a third party from Mario franchise.

Also, by Bonus Fighter, you mean free for a limited time? If so, I don't think they'd do that anymore.

 

[Ben Holt]

They can just sell fighter+stage+music packs separately like they did in Smash 4. I imagine Geno would be in a unique position, though, since he's a third party from Mario franchise.

Also, by Bonus Fighter, you mean free for a limited time? If so, I don't think they'd do that anymore.

By Bonus Fighter, I mean just a character sold (or given) individually without music, a stage, or as part of a bundle.

 

[Sour Supreme]

By Bonus Fighter, I mean just a character sold (or given) individually without music, a stage, or as part of a bundle.

On another note I don't know if bonus fighters are something we'll even see. It seems probable that Piranha Plant was meant to be base roster or at the very least just a fun side project.

 

[Ben Holt]

On another note I don't know if bonus fighters are something we'll even see. It seems probable that Piranha Plant was meant to be base roster or at the very least just a fun side project.

I mean, the site DOES have an entire section for individual DLC. I think that is where our First Party picks will come from.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I don't really think bonus characters are happening. At most I can MAYBE see Geno due to his popularity but I still think he could be in Fighter's Pass 2 rather easily.

As much as it pains me to say it, I think we're going to have to wait till "next" Smash to get any more Nintendo owned characters. It just seems like Nintendo isn't the focus for Ultimate's DLC and I think that's ok. I want Isaac with all my heart, he's one of the last Nintendo characters I feel like is missing from the game but I don't think he's going to get his shot in DLC. I think I'm going to have to wait till next time.

I say "next" smash because I don't think we're getting a "new" Smash. At least not next generation. Anything that comes after Ultimate that isn't Ultimate is going to be disappointing no matter how you slice it. Everyone coming back is something that can never be replicated, so why bother? I think Sakurai knows that what's best for Smash is to let Ultimate grow for as long as it possibly can and I think that definitely includes a "Deluxe" version of Ultimate. A version that is by and large the original game but with more and more content just like you would see with Mario Kart 8 or, for a more direct example, Pokken DX.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'd be totally OK with this as long as we get Beware the Forest Mushrooms.

Forget that! Gimmie Hello Happy Kingdom!

Last time I'm gonna say it... Eggman would be so much tighter than Shadow.

Eggman should be a Boss(piloting the Death Egg Robot), not a playable character.

 

[GoodGrief741]

That depends on what the franchise and what stages are in the game.

A character like let's say Elma for example, her series is present in Smash with a stage, but her home game itself has very little content in Smash as is with no stage and no music. Even though she's first party she could be an ideal candidate for the Fighter's Pass because of the amount of new content she could bring. Another good example (ignoring the assist trophy status for the sake of the argument) would be Spring Man, once again Arms doesn't have a stage and music (though to be honest I don't remember if it has music, so I could be wrong).
Bandanna Dee could be another good example since Smash lacks content from Modern Kirby titles. But for him as an example Kirby itself does already have a ton of content unlike the aforementioned Xenoblade and Arms, which would be more ideal as a way to "expand" dong the worlds of Smash. I think first parties still have a better chance than we are giving them credit for. It's just a bigger deal to add third parties.

Arms does not have songs in Smash, to the dismay of me and my friends.

That Arms chant, it's the catchiest thing on the planet.

 

[ZelDan]

Alright Guys im sorry im doing this again, but im just can't get enough of Shadow but...

I just came up with a theory that Shadow was planned to be DLC from the start, but as the extra dlc. I Write up more detailed explanation later. anyway I Don't think the extra DLC is ENTIRELY unplanned. I think some of the extra dlc was planned and i think we would have gotten these anyway unless either the Fighter Pass flopped, Smash Ultimate flopped, or the Switch flopped, which neither did. I Think Shadow will be one of these extra characters

He's an assist trophy for reasons

1. adds some uniqueness to his inclusion, being the first assist Trophy character to be playable in same game

2. Would make Shadow a surprise. it would be way too suspicious if Shadow was just missing from Assist Trophy role

3. in the case that the Fighter Pass didn't sell well, Smash Ultimate flopped, or the Switch itself flopped, Shadow probably wouldn't be DLC, but he would at least have content in game

As for why he's not DLC in fighter pass, it's cause i think the Fighter pass was more geared towards new franchises, which Shadow is not one of those. I think at least with Fighter pass, Sakurai wanted to get in as many new franchises as possible, and if Fighter pass did not sell well, Characters from already represented franchises have chance next game

Couldn't any of this be said for literally any assist trophy of a popular character?

 

[Deleted member]

Alright Guys im sorry im doing this again, but im just can't get enough of Shadow but...

I just came up with a theory that Shadow was planned to be DLC from the start, but as the extra dlc. I Write up more detailed explanation later. anyway I Don't think the extra DLC is ENTIRELY unplanned. I think some of the extra dlc was planned and i think we would have gotten these anyway unless either the Fighter Pass flopped, Smash Ultimate flopped, or the Switch flopped, which neither did. I Think Shadow will be one of these extra characters

He's an assist trophy for reasons

1. adds some uniqueness to his inclusion, being the first assist Trophy character to be playable in same game

2. Would make Shadow a surprise. it would be way too suspicious if Shadow was just missing from Assist Trophy role

3. in the case that the Fighter Pass didn't sell well, Smash Ultimate flopped, or the Switch itself flopped, Shadow probably wouldn't be DLC, but he would at least have content in game

As for why he's not DLC in fighter pass, it's cause i think the Fighter pass was more geared towards new franchises, which Shadow is not one of those. I think at least with Fighter pass, Sakurai wanted to get in as many new franchises as possible, and if Fighter pass did not sell well, Characters from already represented franchises have chance next game

That's vague enough as to where it could be applied for most Assist Trophies currently in the game like Waluigi, Ashley, Skull Kid, Etc. so I don't think that's very good or sound reasoning.

Could he be added? no depending on how much focus they would want to hypothetically put onto upgrades maybe but I don't think they'll focus too much on upgrades so at best we'll get like 4-5 but even then that's a bit of a stretch, Shadow would not be one of those few. I just don't see it and as I said your reasoning is vague enough as to where it could be applied to a good chunk of Assist Trophies.

 

[Dee Dude]

Shadow, Eggman, Tails, Knuckles, honestly don’t care at this point.

Sonic needs a ***ing second character imo and I don’t know why it still doesn’t.

 

[Deleted member]

Shadow, Eggman, Tails, Knuckles, honestly don’t care at this point.

Sonic needs a ***ing second character imo and I don’t know why it still doesn’t.

Yeah for one of the biggest gaming franchises ever made and for it to have been on par with Mario for awhile it's weird it only has a single character. Just put in Eggman/Tails already as while I may not be a fan of Sonic I respect the hell out of it and I think it should have at least two characters. Castlevania/Street Fighter has two reps and not Sonic for goodness sake.

 

[Sour Supreme]

But where's Earthworm Jim?

 

[Ben Holt]

Shadow, Eggman, Tails, Knuckles, honestly don’t care at this point.

Sonic needs a ***ing second character imo and I don’t know why it still doesn’t.

I literally want all four.

 

[Idon]

Shadow, Eggman, Tails, Knuckles, honestly don’t care at this point.

Sonic needs a ***ing second character imo and I don’t know why it still doesn’t.

Because Sega has other franchises and Sonic's already in the game to represent the series.

Neither Joker nor Bayonetta are as on par in terms of popularity with any Sonic side-character but having them is far more exciting than having a character from another 3rd party series already in the game.

If they were going to go to Sega again, I'd bet top dollar they'd rather have Kazuma Kiryu than they would, say, Shadow.