Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[OrpheusTelos]

Controversial opinion time, but here we go:

I think Byleth would be a better Three Houses character than Edelgard. While he may be another sword-wielder, his access to gauntlet brawling, light magic, and potentially even summoning other characters gives him more than enough to work with. That's not even counting the fact that the Sword of the Creator is a whip sword and not a regular blade.

Edelgard, while she does use a unique weapon, would probably play something like Ike (using strong range and strength at the cost of lower speed and weak frame data on many moves). An axe user isn't exactly like a spear user, where the design of the weapon automatically makes the character play unlike others on the roster. In fact, the thing that would interest me the most in Edelgard would be dark magic, and that would be an auxiliary part of the moveset at best.

I love Edelgard, but I agree that Byleth is way too cool of a character to just ignore. They're a whip sword wielding teacher with time powers and the ability to order armies, there's so much stuff to work with for their moveset. I really wish the "Fire Emblem bad" meme wasn't as prevalent as it was with Smash fans, because Byleth would honestly be the most hype first party inclusion for me if they did get in.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

After starting up Yakuza 0 properly over the mid-sem break, I've absolutely come to love the idea of Kiryu or Majima joining Ultimate. Alongside Puyo Puyo, Yakuza would be the next flagship SEGA franchise I'd love to see in Smash Bros. I can easily see stuff like the Heat Gauge system being used for either of them that they can use to pull off flashier special moves or throws the higher the Heat Gauge gets. So yeah I'm down for Yakuza getting represented one day in Smash Bros.

View attachment 239597

Also random announcement that DRAGALIA LOST IS PARTNERING UP WITH MEGA MAN NOW
Dread it - Nintendo's first Smartphone hero is awaiting an invite. and stealing your wallet through gacha pulls or phones that don't run Dragalia Lost

Wait... is that Legit? Nintendo's little app that could os Crossing with Mega Man?? That's sick!

But yeah, I think for Smash 6(7?) Euden is a shoo in.

 

[Roberk]

Controversial opinion time, but here we go:

I think Byleth would be a better Three Houses character than Edelgard. While he may be another sword-wielder, his access to gauntlet brawling, light magic, and potentially even summoning other characters gives him more than enough to work with. That's not even counting the fact that the Sword of the Creator is a whip sword and not a regular blade.

Edelgard, while she does use a unique weapon, would probably play something like Ike (using strong range and strength at the cost of lower speed and weak frame data on many moves). An axe user isn't exactly like a spear user, where the design of the weapon automatically makes the character play unlike others on the roster. In fact, the thing that would interest me the most in Edelgard would be dark magic, and that would be an auxiliary part of the moveset at best.

Adding on to this, Edelgard isn't even able to use dark magic in her timeskip/canon classes. She just has a Hidden Talent in it for... some reason? Flavor? Balance? We'll never know, but she's definitely limited to her axe when it comes to weaponry compared to Byleth with whipsword, light magic, and brawling.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Adding on to this, Edelgard isn't even able to use dark magic in her timeskip/canon classes. She just has a Hidden Talent in it for... some reason? Flavor? Balance? We'll never know, but she's definitely limited to her axe when it comes to weaponry compared to Byleth with whipsword, light magic, and brawling.

This bothers me in Three Houses, especially because her final class increases her magic Growth Rate. Either way, Let's be real. Robin can't use Nosferatu as a Tactician. If they wanted to give Edelgard her Dark Magic, they absolutely can.

 

[ZelDan]

Adding on to this, Edelgard isn't even able to use dark magic in her timeskip/canon classes. She just has a Hidden Talent in it for... some reason? Flavor? Balance? We'll never know, but she's definitely limited to her axe when it comes to weaponry compared to Byleth with whipsword, light magic, and brawling.

maybe she learned a thing or two from Hubert just by being around him alot?

 

[perfectchaos83]

maybe she learned a thing or two from Hubert just by being around him alot?

Given who else learns the best Dark Magic Spell alongside Edelgard and the one thing they have in common, I'd assume it's more of a lore thing.

 

[SvartWolf]

Another fake leak down for the count.

Back to detailing why Agitha would be the best Zelda newcomer...

I honestly would love a Mii costume though ...

Now speaking seriously I really really really wish the will gave us Mii Wizard alongside a little overhaul of the miis...So they can really become a decent consolation prize... If anything Snas have showed that you can please people with aq good Mii costume.
For example, I like ashley, would love to have her as a newcomer... but honestly.. it looks kinda hard now... sinsce mii swordfighter is a little meh... and is no fun to spam tornados trying to pretend that i'm casting spells while everything she does is wack ppl with her "wand" ._.

If i had a mii wizard and ashley instead of awand had a staff and actual spells.. i think that i wuold be happy enough... Same with black mage form final fantasy, not that i WOULDN'T love it for being a full fledged playable character... but if i had a great mii costume with a mii class that made sense, i think i would compromise.

The problem with mii wizard is that for it to actually work, it would need to be a free dlc, but if they overhaul miis enough that purchasing is such a big deal like the sans costume, i think that there is worth into doing it.

The second problem that most mii costumes find is proportions... while if you have teh proportions of the miis teh costume usually have a good chance of working great (slightly goemon, Protoman, geno in SB4WIIU or sans for example) but stuff like black knight, chrom in SSBwiiu or Zero fall really short. If they manage to create at least one or two extra proportions that can validate more characters archetypes. suddenly stuff like a Mii costume of Urbosa or Fiora, or any FE character doesn't sound as bad.

This in part would work a little like determining the mii height, but the problem this brings is that it slightly would change teh gameplay. but then again i don't think it would be as bad as to balance an echo... and worst case scenario they can still ban non medium mii fighters from competitive play, since mii costumes are mostly for fun anyways. and unlike Smash for wiuu, it would be only fixed presets, instead of a granular slider.

That being said a slightly taller mii proportion with smaller head would work pretty well for more manga and realistic proportions (Alucard, Lyn, Celica, Tifa, Barret, Mona), while a slightly smaller mii costume with bigger head would work wonder for more cartoony mascot style characters. (Jack frost, Goemon, Shovel Knight, the Knight from hollow knight Mumbo Jumbo, just to name a few examples).

Obviously a mask would be waaaay more prefered most of the time than stuff like whatever is the Tails costume or Krool costume or the shyguy mask...

While we are at it.. if i learned something by watching sans ditto fights is at least a couple of alternate colours would be very appreciated.

Another very cool overhaul that they could do is customizable taunts. aaand designing taunts with specific characters in mind (say if for example mii gunner had a taunt where it falls asleep for sans, or mii brawler had a taunt where it shakes its head for skull kid) would greatly help inject some flavour into otherwise flavourless characters,and if we have many taunts, it means that not every taunt needs to be super generic like right now. These taunts could also come bundled with the costumes when purchasing to make the purchase more tempting.

Also, more custom moves would be very welcome... right now the moves try to be as generic as they can be to fit a big amount of concepts, but it would be extremely cool if some of this moves also are though for interesting characters repped in mii costumes... like gunner having a custom side b that is like a balanced Gaster Blaster for sans or Brawler having a down B thats a able to put a debuff cloud in place for Skull kid, Or Swordsman having a neutral B that gives him a chargeable Blade Beam for Black Knight. Obviously this would mean more work and more balancing, although as long as none of teh options is kept in a broken state, such as piston punch in SB4 i don't think it wouldnt be too much trouble balancing it. Now this could bring a semi pay to win situation, so i think that these should be kept as free DLC, but not being limited for free costumes... it could also help sell that Shovel Knight Costume if you know that miisowrdsman have a custom move where it digs teh earth and unearths a couple of jewels >:3

And finally More costumes with remixes... That goemon costume really really really could have used a Goemon track, at keast for the Goemon fan that don't care about mii swordsman to have something...I wouldn't mind if we have increased prize mii coostumes if they come with tracks... and honestly... think for a second....

Would you buy a sephirot mii sowrdsman costume for 0.75?

Now think again.... would you buy a sephirot costume with better proportions, a sephirot taunt, and One winged angel bundled in? even if it is for 1.00?

Edelgard, while she does use a unique weapon, would probably play something like Ike (using strong range and strength at the cost of lower speed and weak frame data on many moves). An axe user isn't exactly like a spear user, where the design of the weapon automatically makes the character play unlike others on the roster. In fact, the thing that would interest me the most in Edelgard would be dark magic, and that would be an auxiliary part of the moveset at best.

All of the 3 houses reps also have access to gambits, and combat arts that could spice things up. but i think that edelgard with only his ingame defining traits AXE, Heavy armor and access to dark magic and black magic is enough imo to make her at the very least as interesting as corrin (uniqueness wise) the same could be said rep thoughs, but my point is that a three houses rep souldn't worry to fall into "Chrome syndrome"

Regarding spear users... for all purposes i think that a spear user would work mostly as a belmont.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm a huge supporter for Hayabusa in Smash, but it's crazy how almost everyone thinks there's little to no contest for a Koei-Tecmo rep because of Ninja Gaiden. Like, I get it since the series predates back to the NES era and does have some relevancy with the modern trilogy and him being in Warriors Orochi 4 Ultimate, but that doesn't really mean anything when, you guessed it, Dynasty Warriors exists. A lot of people point at Hyrule Warriors and Fire Emblem Warriors as a reason to why Koei-Tecmo might get a rep in Smash, yet hilariously enough, they never say that rep could be from any of the Warriors games itself. A Dynasty Warriors character could very well be in Smash before Hayabusa regardless of if they're in FP5 or not.

For the record, Ryu Hayabusa and Zhao Yun are 2 of my most wanted characters in Smash. I know Hayabusa will get mixed reactions since he's getting talked about more, but I really want to see how people would react to Smash Bros Ultimate x Dynasty Warriors since it's currently unexpected.

Dynasty Warriors is a pretty iconic franchise and I could see it getting in down the line, but it's no Ninja Gaiden. The original Ninja Gaiden trilogy is synonymous with the NES and difficult games and the modern trilogy is one of the premiere character action. Dynasty Warriors invented (or at least codified) a genre, but it's kind of stuck in a more niche space outside of Japan (which also makes it more impressive that it's still so renowned).

I think the comparison is like saying Pac-Man and Heihachi were in competition to be Bandai Namco's first character. Yeah, they're both huge, but one was clearly going to get in before the other. Of course, Ryu H. is no Pac-Man and Dynasty Warriors is not Tekken, but I hope you get the point I'm trying to make.

Still something worse considering (alongside DoA, which nobody talks about either). I only played one Dynasty Warriors game as a kid, and I can't remember anything about the plot, so enlighten me: who would be the character they'd choose to rep the series?

 

[7NATOR]

Screencap this: Shadow the Hegehog will be Playable DLC in Smash Ultimate

 

[MainJPW]

Screencap this: Shadow the Hedgehog will be Playable DLC in Smash Ultimate

INB4 we get Vector The Crocodile instead.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Screencap this: Shadow the Hegehog will be Playable DLC in Smash Ultimate

You sure you wanna be so confident?

Stuff like this ends up in the cringe compilations once all is said and done.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't know if I really agree with the notion that Kunio is who Nintendo would want with how limited his appeal is going to be beyond Japan, and Blazblue and Guilty Gear are pretty damn important and hot fighting games that have been garnering a lot of attention over the past few years, especially in the fighting game community circles that Smash also runs in. Hell, Blazblue Cross Tag Battle seems to be going for its own crossover craziness like Smash too that has gotten a lot of attention haha. Like I don't expect it to be so clear cut that they would choose Kunio as the legacy character over Sol (or even Billy and Jimmy of Double Dragon fame). Maybe I'm not educated on how big Kunio-kun is in Japan and that's a blindspot I may have.

I think we both just want the character we want and are both making excuses for them.

I'll also be honest in saying like, Kunio's design just really bothers me (it's just very aesthetically not pleasing) and potentially may make me more bias against Kunio in Smash.

To be fair, it's his 8-bit design that is his probably his best and most iconic design. But there's no way they'd use that in Smash.

I can understand not liking his usual chibi boxart design. But he does have a bunch of other designs throughout the series. Like his Super Dodgeball design, or even his most recent River City Girls design.

 

[Nquoid]

I mean, one of Banjo's tracks is literally just a nursery rhyme so points off for creativity and even then, I've only played like 5 N64 games

This post made me sad. Interpolating public domain music into your soundtrack is not a lack of creativity.

Also how much am I going to have to brace myself for Smash speculation when people bring up Japan centric characters and try and inflate their importance?

 

[osby]

Also how much am I going to have to brace myself for Smash speculation when people bring up Japan centric characters and try and inflate their importance?

People usually do the same for West-centric character, it shouldn't be that hard.

Like, Dragon Quest in west sold better than Banjo-Kazooie in Japan, but only the former gets complaints for being "too niche" in one region.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

People usually do the same for West-centric character, it shouldn't be that hard.

Like, Dragon Quest in west sold better than Banjo-Kazooie in Japan, but only the former gets complaints for being "too niche" in one region.

Banjo's still much bigger in Japan than Sakura Wars is in the West.

 

[osby]

Banjo's still much bigger in Japan than Sakura Wars is in the West.

I wasn't talking about Sakura Wars, but OK.

 

[Nquoid]

People usually do the same for West-centric character, it shouldn't be that hard.

Like, Dragon Quest in west sold better than Banjo-Kazooie in Japan, but only the former gets complaints for being "too niche" in one region.

I would never argue Dragon Quest is too niche though. It's just that whenever a new Japan-centric comes up and someone says something along the lines of "you gaijin don't understand how important this franchise is to the very fabric of Japan!!". Which amuses me and annoys me simultaneously.

 

[CroonerMike]

Yes, in sumarry, I only want 3rd party playable characters, who are highly iconic, famous, and have a complete series that is at least 5+ games. I would still consider a trilogy or duology a series, but just not complete.

Wants Chell from portal but says that they want 3rd parties who are iconic and famous....but wants Chell...who has like 2 games. Go troll other threads please for the love of god.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

I wasn't talking about Sakura Wars, but OK.

I know, I was just pulling a recent example.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm a huge supporter for Hayabusa in Smash, but it's crazy how almost everyone thinks there's little to no contest for a Koei-Tecmo rep because of Ninja Gaiden. Like, I get it since the series predates back to the NES era and does have some relevancy with the modern trilogy and him being in Warriors Orochi 4 Ultimate, but that doesn't really mean anything when, you guessed it, Dynasty Warriors exists.

True. But the argument could be made that all the Dynasty Warriors characters are historical figures, not video game characters. It's also based on an ancient story, Record of the Three Kingdoms.

Although...we DO have Dracula, and he comes from an old-ass book as well. So...I dunno.

After starting up Yakuza 0 properly over the mid-sem break, I've absolutely come to love the idea of Kiryu or Majima joining Ultimate.

Majima NEEDS to be an AT, so we can have Majima Everywhere!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

True. But the argument could be made that all the Dynasty Warriors characters are historical figures, not video game characters. It's also based on an ancient story, Record of the Three Kingdoms.

Although...we DO have Dracula, and he comes from an old-*** book as well. So...I dunno.

Majima NEEDS to be an AT, so we can have Majima Everywhere!

Majima would need to use his Majima Mobile from Yakuza 3 so make him playable alongside Kiryu

 

[DarthEnderX]

I would never argue Dragon Quest is too niche though. It's just that whenever a new Japan-centric comes up and someone says something along the lines of "you gaijin don't understand how important this franchise is to the very fabric of Japan!!". Which amuses me and annoys me simultaneously.

That description really only applies to Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter.

 

[Nquoid]

That description really only applies to Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter.

And yet in the last month I can count at least three franchises that have been brought up as being cultural touchstones in Japan.

I get that we've had an awful lot of big hitters, but I can see the reason, logic and import behind every character we've had as DLC. And everything about them says to me that being localised outside of Japan in a significant way is kind of important.

(Now watch the debate around what "localised in a significant way" *means*)

 

[Idon]

And yet in the last month I can count at least three franchises that have been brought up as being cultural touchstones in Japan.

I get that we've had an awful lot of big hitters, but I can see the reason, logic and import behind every character we've had as DLC. And everything about them says to me that being localised outside of Japan in a significant way is kind of important.

(Now watch the debate around what "localised in a significant way" *means*)

Well... what DOES it mean?

There aren't degrees of localization. It either is, or it isn't.

 

[Nquoid]

Well... what DOES it mean?

There aren't degrees of localization. It either is, or it isn't.

Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest have all been localised significantly.

If you have a long running franchise where only one or two titles have been localised outside of Japan, I think its fair to say that counts as not significant localisation.

This isn't a binary "it happened or didn't happen situation". Things have nuance behind them and "something is either localised or it isn't" puts equal weight on a franchise which are 100% available outside of Japan, 50% or 5%.

And before anyone mentions, yes I know Earthbound has only had one game localised outside of Japan, but if we can't understand why that franchise is a special case for a myriad of reasons then we're already at an impasse.

 

[Calamitas]

I love Edelgard, but I agree that Byleth is way too cool of a character to just ignore. They're a whip sword wielding teacher with time powers and the ability to order armies, there's so much stuff to work with for their moveset. I really wish the "Fire Emblem bad" meme wasn't as prevalent as it was with Smash fans, because Byleth would honestly be the most hype first party inclusion for me if they did get in.

If we do get Byleth, I just hope that they make the female one the default. They should've already done this with Corrin, but nooo.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest have all been localised significantly.

If you have a long running franchise where only one or two titles have been localised outside of Japan, I think its fair to say that counts as not significant localisation.

This isn't a binary "it happened or didn't happen situation". Things have nuance behind them and "something is either localised or it isn't" puts equal weight on a franchise which are 100% available outside of Japan, 50% or 5%.

And before anyone mentions, yes I know Earthbound has only had one game localised outside of Japan, but if we can't understand why that franchise is a special case for a myriad of reasons then we're already at an impasse.

Isn't Earthbound a special case because Smash introduced the world to it, making people gain interest through Smash like this theoretical Sakura Wars character would? Had Ness never gotten in Smash then it'd ve as forgotten as other games nobody talks about

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Made a custom fighter's pass set of my own, using the template in the Geno thread. You all should try it!

 

[DarthEnderX]

There aren't degrees of localization. It either is, or it isn't.

There are for an entire series.

Does all of a franchise get localized? Does none of it get localized? Some of them? Most of them? Half of them?

Like, Kunio is a franchise where only, like, half of the games were localized.

Or, for a long time, Earthbound was a series with 3 games where only 1 of them was localized.

There are degrees of series localization.

Isn't Earthbound a special case because Smash introduced the world to it, making people gain interest through Smash like this theoretical Sakura Wars character would?

No. Earthbound is a special case because it's a Nintendo franchise. Nintendo will thrown any unknown whatever into Smash if it's one of their properties.

 

[TheCJBrine]

And before anyone mentions, yes I know Earthbound has only had one game localised outside of Japan, but if we can't understand why that franchise is a special case for a myriad of reasons then we're already at an impasse.

They released Mother’s localization on the Wii U virtual console in 2015.

Now it’s just Mother 3 with no localization.

 

[Idon]

Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest have all been localised significantly.

If you have a long running franchise where only one or two titles have been localised outside of Japan, I think its fair to say that counts as not significant localisation.

This isn't a binary "it happened or didn't happen situation". Things have nuance behind them and "something is either localised or it isn't" puts equal weight on a franchise which are 100% available outside of Japan, 50% or 5%.

And before anyone mentions, yes I know Earthbound has only had one game localised outside of Japan, but if we can't understand why that franchise is a special case for a myriad of reasons then we're already at an impasse.

Ah for entire series. Yeah that's something I'd definitely agree on probably being a deciding factor

If we do get Byleth, I just hope that they make the female one the default. They should've already done this with Corrin, but nooo.

Considering that the trailers all feature Male Byleth and the female design is universally panned by just about every single person I've ever met, I highly doubt that will be the case.

Because Edelgard is going to be the Three Houses character anyways.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

You sure you wanna be so confident?

Stuff like this ends up in the cringe compilations once all is said and done.

It's cringey now.

Btw, you people are gullible af re: that sakura image.

 

[Nquoid]

Isn't Earthbound a special case because Smash introduced the world to it, making people gain interest through Smash like this theoretical Sakura Wars character would? Had Ness never gotten in Smash then it'd ve as forgotten as other games nobody talks about

I'd actually be interested to see whether or not Earthbound started retrospectively getting the respect it deserved before Ness debuted in Smash. Because obviously commercial and critical response was muted at the time to say the least, but whether or not Ness' inclusion in Smash also led to the critical reevaluation of Earthbound I'm not sure.

But I do think it's important to note that multiple things helped Ness' appearance in Smash; it being a first (or second if you want to get technical) party character developed by HAL Laboratory, Mother 3 still being in active development for the N64 and the involvement of Iwata in both Smash and Mother.

It irks me that a lot of Smash speculation devolves into "X happened so therefore Y can" which feels incredibly regressive and ignores a whole host of other factors that might have led to decisions.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I think we both just want the character we want and are both making excuses for them.

To be fair, it's his 8-bit design that is his probably his best and most iconic design. But there's no way they'd use that in Smash.

I can understand not liking his usual chibi boxart design. But he does have a bunch of other designs throughout the series. Like his Super Dodgeball design, or even his most recent River City Girls design.

Clicked on the River City Girls design link. Just to make you aware Darth it takes me to a pic of a question mark and the file is called "who.jpg".

Poor Kunio is our genuine first "literal who"

 

[DarthEnderX]

Clicked on the River City Girls design link. Just to make you aware Darth it takes me to a pic of a question mark and the file is called "who.jpg".

Poor Kunio is our genuine first "literal who"

Not sure why it's doing that for you. It's working for me. I'll just save it and link that.

Btw, you people are gullible af re: that sakura image.

Plus, now that she was a leak for 10 seconds, she'll be showing up in character predictions for the next decade...

 

[TheYungLink]

Considering that the trailers all feature Male Byleth and the female design is universally panned by just about every single person I've ever met, I highly doubt that will be the case.

Because Edelgard is going to be the Three Houses character anyways.

Well in my experience, my lesbian friends (well, the wlw ones more broadly) seem to like it, heh.

Not that they wouldn't be happy with Edelgard, either. She seems to have a design popular across the gender spectrum.

 

[dezeray112]

Not sure if it's just me, but I think it looks like that the Sakura model is a different resolution compared to the Smash logo. Feels like a photoshop to me.

Sakura Shinguji would've been an awesome candidate for Smash, but based upon the render and someone who had already pointed it out earlier, it very much looks fake.

 

[RileyXY1]

Sakura Shinguji would've been an awesome candidate for Smash, but based upon the render and someone who had already pointed it out earlier, it very much looks fake.

It's already been confirmed that it is fake.

 

[Flyboy]

F!Byleth's tights might be ugly but I love her and I love her hair. I'd love to see her as the default. I'm very fond of her.

It's cringey now.

Btw, you people are gullible af re: that sakura image.

Bruh people didn't believe it, it was just fun to consider a character far out of the norm while trying to debunk it. Render hoaxes are waaay more fun than the millionth flavor of the month text "leak" or the stupid codename "leaks" or whatever.

 

[Deleted member]

People want more Fire Emblem? Damn, Nintendo is brainwashing you guys there's like 7 characters already in the game and 3 of them are clones and 2 of those are from one game. Enough already.

Also, I really hope none of you fell for that 4chan fake leak.