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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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PacificFun

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Well, WoL could definitely be improved, I also found it a bit to grindy. But now the team could refine and improve it to make it more stomachable, keep in mind it wasn’t the games priority and was rushed.
I definitely think some characters could be updated, but completely overhauling movests is unnecessary imo.
Online issues seem more like a problem with its design than anything to do with the roster. I do agree that ARMS hit the nail on the head in terms of online.
Most of the cast is perfectly functional but a lot of characters feel outdated to me. The whole N64 and most of the Melee cast could use overhauls.

What I'm trying to say is that I really wouldn't mind a new director and direction for Smash.

I'd be fine with a reboot if the remaining cast from 64/Melee got updated movesets and characters that could be entirely decloned were.
Plus it'd make story mode easier to implement.
This is how I feel.
 
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Þe 1 → Way

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Wouldn’t You Like To Know?
Most of the cast is perfectly functional but a lot of characters feel outdated to me. The whole N64 and most of the Melee cast could use overhauls.

What I'm really saying is that I really wouldn't mind a new director and direction for Smash.
I suppose we’ll agree to disagree then. I am very satisfied with most characters, just feel that characters like Mario, DK, and Ganon could use new specials. That and a few others.
 

SpectreJordan

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Even though he’s my most wanted Sonic character, I don’t think Eggman is too likely rn.

I think one of the reasons they chose Sephiroth is because he was the biggest villain who wasn’t in yet. Sure they could do that again & go with Eggman. But I think what’s most likely if we get another secondary 3rd party character is that they go for another role. I think a sidekick would be the front runner for that & there’s only one choice there, Tails. The only game sidekicks more iconic than him are:ultluigi::ultyoshi:

I just think it makes a lot of sense to go with various different types of secondary game character roles before double dipping on one specific type.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I don’t really see how all those can’t happen with a big roster.
We’ve got a decent single player mode in WoL, it just needs some polishing before it can be considered great.
Smash 4 managed to give each character 4 different custom moves, I don’t see how updating veterans is out of the question.
The only reason Ultimates online sucks so bad is because it uses delay netcode instead of rollback. Fix that and Online is good.
Character interaction could be achieved by hiring more writers and making more stuff like Palutenas Guidance and Snakes Codecs.
I agree. From what we know, 69 is too many, and pretty major concessions have to be made there. 52 is possible while developing for two consoles at the same time, though it's unknown how many resources are reused from Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Super Smash Bros. Brawl had 39, and while it's unknown how much Super Smash Bros. Melee's resources were reused, I think the increase in budget since then makes this pretty easily recreateable regardless.

So a reboot roster is likely to have from 39 to ~52 characters, with a lean toward the higher end. My guesstimate would be around 48-54 characters depending on all the circumstances around development. Mind you, the number of cuts is still gonna be depressing. Going from 81-54 fighters, with about 15 of those being newcomers, we're looking at about 39 cuts give or take a handful. Just...oof.
 

Þe 1 → Way

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I agree. From what we know, 69 is too many, and pretty major concessions have to be made there. 52 is possible while developing for two consoles at the same time, though it's unknown how many resources are reused from Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Super Smash Bros. Brawl had 39, and while it's unknown how much Super Smash Bros. Melee's resources were reused, I think the increase in budget since then makes this pretty easily recreateable regardless.

So a reboot roster is likely to have from 39 to ~52 characters, with a lean toward the higher end. My guesstimate would be around 48-54 characters depending on all the circumstances around development. Mind you, the number of cuts is still gonna be depressing. Going from 81-54 fighters, with about 15 of those being newcomers, we're looking at about 39 cuts give or take a handful. Just...oof.
That is very depressing to think about. Its pretty much the reason I’m such a big advocate for Ultimate Deluxe.
 

Dinoman96

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For what it's worth, stuff like Break the Targets and Board the Platforms (each stage being designed around each character), as well as a proper SSE styled adventure mode with expensive CGI cutscenes, would be more feasible with a cut down roster.

But I guess it depends on how much you think it's worth it for those modes.
 
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PacificFun

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For what it's worth, stuff like Break the Targets and Board the Platforms (each stage being designed around each character), as well as a proper SSE styled adventure mode, would be more feasible with a cut down roster.

But I guess it depends on how much you think it's worth it for those modes.
I really wouldn't mind a gutting for a proper SSE that was actually fun to play.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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As far as reworks go, I'd say that a lot of the older characters could use an update, either because of design creep, or because they could stand to improve either design wise, or representation wise. Some I'd give overhauls, but I think a lot of them just need tweaks.

Heh, imagine if a full blown reboot only allowed for up to two participants from each franchise selected for the game.
Unless it played like Super Smash Bros. Melee, but better, nobody would like it.

EDIT: The bigger series just have too many characters that should be in the game. Like, Super Mario just has Mario and Luigi. No Peach. No Bowser...That's just too far.
 
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DarthEnderX

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Do you guys think the likes of Wii Fit Trainer, ROB and Mr. Game & Watch (the "console" device characters) would survive a roster gutting?
If there has to be a gutting, they'd be amoung the first I'd cut. Along with Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt Piranha Plant and half the FE characters.

You know what...here's my Smash 6 tight 30:

1608065203679.png
 
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SpectreJordan

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There's the possibility they'll want Nintendo to go with a Call of Duty rep as someone mentioned.
Nah, I think they’d definitely choose Crash. They’re currently trying to make Crash one of their big series. Promoting it to the Smash/Nintendo audience is a good way to do that. But I can see them screwing up things in the negotiation process.
They're going to get gutted. Like much of the roster, by whichever stooge Nintendo found to direct the next installment. I'm not looking forward to it.
Post-Sakurai Smash installments will happen, that's inevitable. But I've already decided I won't be recognizing them as legitimate entries. The series is done after this, as far as I care, and I think this is a good time for Mr. Sakurai to close up shop, when Ultimate's DLC is all done.
But... what if they’re good games? That’s like if someone refused to play Mario & Zelda games that Miyamoto didn’t direct.
 
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PacificFun

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I do wonder if we're going to get Ultimate Deluxe or a reboot for the next console.

Would Nintendo leave Ultimate on the Switch? I doubt it...but then again, unlike the Wii U, the Switch is a runaway success. Ultimate Deluxe probably wouldn't get big sales due to this.

And I can't see both happening because then they would be potentially competing (which is probably why we don't have MK9 yet even after nearly 7 years).
 

ahemtoday

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Honestly, I don't want a sequel to Ultimate to be... halfhearted in any respect with what it does with the series. I don't want it to be, like... "okay, let's not bring back some of the less-negotiable third-parties and some of the clones, but add in like five newcomers". If it's trying to be Ultimate 2, it should be Ultimate 2. And if it's not that - which it probably can't be - then I want it to do something wild. Add in four new specials for everyone; cut Sheik; go 3D; something. Ultimate wrapped itself in Smash's history as a franchise, and while "everyone is here" is really cool, it does tie the game down in some respects. If you bring most things back, but not all, then you're just as tied down but have nothing to show for it. Ultimate gives the next game an opportunity to throw off the chains of the past and not be beholden to decisions made up to two decades ago, and if they're not going all-in on Everyone Is Still Here, then I want to see those chains broken.
 

Momotsuki

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Okay then, I'll nip both of those in the bud, get your attention on this.
What do you think of Madotsuki? If she was somehow the March reveal how would you feel?
 
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I'll just dip my toes in.

We aren't getting a new Smash game in at least 8 years after Ultimate. I think Nintendo knows that any Smash game won't be the same as Ultimate.
 
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I.D.

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I don't know where this "CHRONO TRIGGER IS A LEGAL NIGHTMARE" is coming from but it is pure misinfo and I have to nip this one in the bud

Here is the copyright for Chrono Trigger DS:


Here is the copyright of a recent Dragon Quest title chosen at random (DQVIII 3DS):


Almost identical, isn't it
Now I know what you're thinking, "AHA, IT'S THOSE SHUEISHA ******** THAT REFUSE TO COOPERATE WITH SQUARE-ENIX"

No, I don't think that's the case


If the Chrono's IP legal situation was really that nightmarish, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be able to do those upgraded ports at all. I mean it's not like you get to ignore copyright just because "it's a port".

Wanna know the real reason why we aren't getting more Chrono? It's not pretty


"That's not what the sales tell me!" Hashimoto said. "If people want a sequel, they should buy more!"
The ugly truth is, the Chrono IP got abandoned by Square just like a lot of other great games they created during the SNES/PS1 eras, never to be revisited again. It's no more of a special case than any of them.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Okay then, I'll nip both of those in the bud, get your attention on this.
What do you think of Madotsuki? If she was somehow the March reveal how would you feel?
Okay.

I consider myself well versed in video games.

And now I have to ask "literally who?"
 

PacificFun

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I don't know where this "CHRONO TRIGGER IS A LEGAL NIGHTMARE" is coming from but it is pure misinfo and I have to nip this one in the bud

Here is the copyright for Chrono Trigger DS:


Here is the copyright of a recent Dragon Quest title chosen at random (DQVIII 3DS):


Almost identical, isn't it
Now I know what you're thinking, "AHA, IT'S THOSE SHUEISHA ******** THAT REFUSE TO COOPERATE WITH SQUARE-ENIX"

No, I don't think that's the case


If the Chrono's IP legal situation was really that nightmarish, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be able to do those upgraded ports at all. I mean it's not like you get to ignore copyright just because "it's a port".

Wanna know the real reason why we aren't getting more Chrono? It's not pretty




The ugly truth is, the Chrono IP got abandoned by Square just like a lot of other great games they created during the SNES/PS1 eras, never to be revisited again. It's no more of a special case than any of them.
That sucks for Chrono Trigger fans, holy moly.
 

Momotsuki

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Oh come on now. I feel like more people know who she is than know her name. She's the playable character in Yume Nikki. Y'know, game with light switch going brrrrr because that's all some people seem to know of it.
 

chocolatejr9

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Oh come on now. I feel like more people know who she is than know her name. She's the playable character in Yume Nikki. Y'know, game with light switch going brrrrr because that's all some people seem to know of it.
Okay, but... why Yume Nikki? I could get representing RPG Maker, but why that game in particular? There's no combat, as far as I'm aware.
 

Momotsuki

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I mean I know what Yume Nikki is, so I hope this helps your point.

Also, wasn't Gaster from Undertale inspired by this?
Gaster looks a lot like Uboa. Toby's take on Dr. Andonuts uses a mangled edit of Uboa for his overworld sprite too, if I'm remembering. Uboa, Uboa's Trap, and the Bloody Touching Monster are both relatively minor parts of the game, though.
 
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ARandomFruit

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Okay then, I'll nip both of those in the bud, get your attention on this.
What do you think of Madotsuki? If she was somehow the March reveal how would you feel?
I think she'd fit better as a Mii costume but I wouldn't be disappointed if they were a full fighter. I would just be sorta confused, but also laughing at it cause the concept of it is really funny to me thinking about it.
 

Momotsuki

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Okay, but... why Yume Nikki? I could get representing RPG Maker, but why that game in particular? There's no combat, as far as I'm aware.
No combat does not mean no material. We have several case studies of this already. One of the more interesting ideas of mine involves one of her specials, her recovery move, being Medamaude, a move with very heavy lag on both startup and ending, and warps her to the center of the stage regardless of where she happens to be when using it. One of her taunts have her cycle through her usual braids, blonde hair, and poo hair as well, though that's purely aesthetic.

I think she'd fit better as a Mii costume but I wouldn't be disappointed if they were a full fighter. I would just be sorta confused, but also laughing at it cause the concept of it is really funny to me thinking about it.
You have NO idea how happy I'd be if she somehow got a Mii outfit. Unlike a fighter. that seems almost realistic and any Yume Nikki in Smash is good enough for me.
 
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