Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[WeirdChillFever]

This is the thread, isn't it?

View attachment 295543

Fixed it. I think Geno discourse remains the way it is as long as we keep this us vs them mentality between this thread seeing them as a cult and the Geno thread seeing this thread as the non-believing heathens.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I know it's a (racist but not negative) comment that Japanese people work hard---- but it's not like half of the USA doesn't have to work multiple jobs.

It's not really racist if it's the truth; Japanese work culture leans pretty heavily to overworking people.

I won't deny that it's the pot calling the kettle black though. lol

 

[I.D.]

Unless my understanding of copyright law is wrong (which it likely is), I can't see how a Smash Ultimate Deluxe would be an easy port as some are implying... That's a lot of contract renewals and licensening agreements to sort out again.

People already forgot about Sakurai recently commenting on how hard it was to get everyone to agree on something as simple as letting them play their music on battlefield and final destination, even though the music is already in the game! Yeah, there's no way it will be easy, Nintendo can't just say "ehehe it's just a port, we don't need to consult you on anything"

 

[pupNapoleon]

Let's be fair for a second, when I said stuff like "we are inevitably going down after Steve" I was going to be right no matter what. As big as Sephiroth is, he's still coming after the most sold videogame in the world, ergo, he's smaller (200 million units sold vs 10 million). I remain completely correct :^)

Eh... it depends how you define 'big.'
Length, girth, load?
By that I mean- Minecraft is the most sold game, but there are more popular media franchises, and other ways to measure 'bigness.'

 

[Deleted member]

NGL, I'm already extremely satisfied with both and , so I'm kind of just along for the ride at this point. If they lengthen this thing into late 2022? I'll hapilly take more, of course, but I'm not gonna be in speculation, lol. I've been hardcore speculating Ultimate since 2018: I am very much ready for it to be done next year.

SAME.

I have wanted Steve very badly, even during the Smash 4 days. He was my most wanted. I'm so happy he is in. I am relaxing right now, and I am all for the ride. I do not have to worry about my most wanted characters not getting in, which is very nice.

Also, I still remember your Steve reaction.

 

[Momotsuki]

I remember talking to people some time ago that seemed to think the problem with Sakurai was that he hates making Smash. I'd argue there is a problem, but it's inverse of that; he seems to love it a little too much for his own good. Nobody can tell him what to do about that, if this is his passion, beyond wishing him well and wishing him luck.

 

[MooMew64]

Honestly? I don't think an Ultimate port will even be necessary, as I'd be shocked if Nintendo abandoned the Switch format at this point. I see us getting a beefier Switch in the next couple of years that has complete backwards compatibility with the previous version's library. Like...Maybe around late 2022 or so.

As for Smash itself, it's obviously gonna stick around, but I imagine it's going to be a long, long time before we see it again. Like, earliest turn around I could see is maybe 5 or so years after Ultimate wraps up late next year.

 

[pupNapoleon]

It's not really racist if it's the truth; Japanese work culture leans pretty heavily to overworking people.

I won't deny that it's the pot calling the kettle black though. lol

I just think that's.... not true.
Sakurai absolutely makes money. Hollywood actors make money.
Half of people in the USA make minimum wage, which is not a livable wage.

And it's not counting countless other countries.

If Sakurai wants to quit working on his dream job- let him. But saying it isn't his dream job is foolhardy.

 

[I.D.]

Honestly? I don't think an Ultimate port will even be necessary, as I'd be shocked if Nintendo abandoned the Switch format at this point. I see us getting a beefier Switch in the next couple of years that has complete backwards compatibility with the previous version's library. Like...Maybe around late 2022 or so.

As for Smash itself, it's obviously gonna stick around, but I imagine it's going to be a long, long time before we see it again. Like, earliest turn around I could see is maybe 5 or so years after Ultimate wraps up late next year.

So what you're saying is... Nintendo should just port the Switch

 

[Momotsuki]

Honestly? I don't think an Ultimate port will even be necessary, as I'd be shocked if Nintendo abandoned the Switch format at this point. I see us getting a beefier Switch in the next couple of years that has complete backwards compatibility with the previous version's library. Like...Maybe around late 2022 or so.

As for Smash itself, it's obviously gonna stick around, but I imagine it's going to be a long, long time before we see it again. Like, earliest turn around I could see is maybe 5 or so years after Ultimate wraps up late next year.

Discussion of whatever follows Ultimate is so bleak I don't bother giving it thought anyhow. It's funny how for the first time, "the next Smash" sounds dreadful rather than exciting. What we have now is not something I want to leave behind.

 

[Deleted member]

So what you're saying is... Nintendo should just port the Switch

Yes.

PlayStation and Xbox do that, why not Nintendo?

 

[MooMew64]

So what you're saying is... Nintendo should just port the Switch

It's Switch Deluxe time.

 

[AmphabulouSnake]

To quote Maximilian Dood : "Nintendo would be outright foolish to end Smash Ultimate DLC now" or something like that
Street Fighter 5 came out like 6 years ago at this point and it's still getting dlc I think lmao

 

[Deleted member]

I’d be down for an under $10 echo pass consisting of just fighters and music. An actual FP3 seems highly improbable imo.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Nintendo needs to be crystal clear if they're announcing a new version of the Switch as their next console. People thought the Wii U was just a Wii add on when it was announced. Best the "Switch 2" avoids a Wii U scenario.

 

[7NATOR]

I just wish the people who hate on him for not giving them their most wanted appreciated and respected him more. He's poured his entire heart out in giving us some of our most wants in and this is the thanks he gets?

To be Fair

We do Give him Thanks by Paying for Smash Ultimate, and DLC if you want to. Sakurai shouldn't be hated, but I do think people are allowed to Give Criticism to him. They did pay for the game after all, and the DLC if they did that also.

Plus on him being tired of Making Smash, It is possible since Directing a Game like Smash, especially for 8 Years in a Row at this Point (counting the Smash 4 Development) can be taxing. But Honestly I think some of the Animators, Programmers, Composers, Artists, Modelers, etc are probably more tired to be honest, And I don't know if they make a Huge Wage like Sakurai does.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'm pretty sure the logic is that Sephiroth isn't the main character for his game, which shows that other characters who aren't the main character have a shot, and that's basically what's left for first party characters. So it's less first party specifically being helped out, and more that secondary characters as a whole are helped.

I don't think it's a great boost, or even one that's going to pan out, but I see the logic. That said, it all falls flat if Sephiroth was a consolation prize for not getting Sora or if he was part of the deal to get Cloud back, since it would mean he wasn't chosen in the same sense as the rest of the DLC.

I still disagree.

Sephiroth was, from what we know, a supposed deal maker: Square Enix wanted Cloud to stay DLC to make money, Nintendo wanted him base game. Square gets money for DLC characters, Nintendo gets top tier picks in their game. If Steve is anything to go by, as well as the fact that Mii costumes were clearly saved for these reveals as opposed to all being conveniently cut, these picks were likely decided plenty of time in advance.

The concept for some of the “disconfirmed” characters (mind you I won’t actually call anything disconfirmed) was that, “Maybe they changed their mind between passes!” We now know there probably wasn’t much time, if any, in change minds determining the picks.

What I’m getting at here is this: Timing, not Sephiroth, is what matters here.

Sephiroth was obtained in what I assume is a very particular circumstance that...doesn’t necessarily apply to any other character. It’s the same with Steve or Min Min. Each has had situations that led to their inclusion that don’t help another character, because it assumes that will carry over to the next in some capacity.

Sephiroth isn’t a protagonist, no. But he’s Sephiroth. He’s among the pantheon of gaming villains.

I really don’t agree that it helps any character in particular that he, of all characters, surprised people.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I just think that's.... not true.
Sakurai absolutely makes money. Hollywood actors make money.
Half of people in the USA make minimum wage, which is not a livable wage.

And it's not counting countless other countries.

If Sakurai wants to quit working on his dream job- let him. But saying it isn't his dream job is foolhardy.

?

I never said people didn't make money nor was I saying that Sakurai wasn't working his dream job.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

To be Fair

We do Give him Thanks by Paying for Smash Ultimate, and DLC if you want to. Sakurai shouldn't be hated, but I do think people are allowed to Give Criticism to him. They did pay for the game after all, and the DLC if they did that also.

Plus on him being tired of Making Smash, It is possible since Directing a Game like Smash, especially for 8 Years in a Row at this Point (counting the Smash 4 Development) can be taxing. But Honestly I think some of the Animators, Programmers, Composers, Artists, Modelers, etc are probably more tired to be honest, And I don't know if they make a Huge Wage like Sakurai does.

I wasn't saying us, I was referring to the haters as mentioned.

There's also only so many characters people wants most Sakurai could add in. He can't get them all.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I feel like FP3 is nearly impossible.

Smash 4's DLC started from 2014-2016.

FP2's DLC will start from 2018-2021 if it ends with FP2.

If Ultimate has FP3, it could very well end in 2024. That will be 6 years after Ultimate has released. The dev teams need a break after all of this, and Ultimate's player-base will be a lot smaller by the time FP3 ends. Plus, the team has more projects to work, like maybe a Kid Icarus: Uprising sequel.

And as I keep on saying, Sakurai has deeply stated that FP2 will be the last pass of Ultimate.

Who gets off from work? I just dont understand how people think this with Sakurai.
He gets do do what he loves, with characters he beloves, and is paid well.

Meanwhile, in the USA, you work in some cities for under ten dollars an hour. That means a full week goes to healthcare- or you just dont have it- one and a half weeks go to rent, more than half a week goes to food, and god forbid you have a dependent.

This Japanese work culture might be accurate in that they have to work harder for respect, but in the USA, it's actual fact you are practically subhuman without benefits.

 

[Momotsuki]

To quote Maximilian Dood : "Nintendo would be outright foolish to end Smash Ultimate DLC now" or something like that
Street Fighter 5 came out like 6 years ago at this point and it's still getting dlc I think lmao

Man, if we're really in this for the long haul... I guess that's fine by me. I got my Switch at launch, and her internal battery oughta do me nicely for at least another six years, even if it degrades to the point of leaving her dock-ridden. Still, though... trying to look outward to post-FP2, I see nothing but fog.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

It's not really racist if it's the truth; Japanese work culture leans pretty heavily to overworking people.

I won't deny that it's the pot calling the kettle black though. lol

they have been trying to fix this here due to growing trends in “death by overwork”. Teachers here typically work 7:30 am to anywhere from 6 to 9 pm and also work weekends and vacations. I don’t have to do this but the science teacher at my school is also the baseball coach so they do that job during the weekend. My working hours are 8:30 to 5 and off on weekends with reduced hours in vacation time which is nice but I also don’t get three bonuses per year and I have reduced vacation/sick time compared to the more official teachers.

It’s my understanding that Sakurai has three houses: one he shares with his wife, his work/development house, and finally a summer home he goes to for vacations and such.

 

[MooMew64]

I’d be down for a under $10 echo pass consisting of just fighters and music. An actual FP3 seems highly improbable imo.

This is the most I'm expecting if we get anything more, TBH. It would fit the leftover 4 slots well: An Echo bundle released either as a cheaper pass, and maybe even a potential freebie for those who purchased both passes. It'd round out the roster number and end the game on a really cool note, IMO.

 

[pupNapoleon]

It's not really racist if it's the truth; Japanese work culture leans pretty heavily to overworking people.

I won't deny that it's the pot calling the kettle black though. lol

There's just this notion that "Sakurai needs a break."
I'm sorry- no he doesn't. He wouldn't want one, and who the hell just gets a break from work? And how is that a work ethic?
I adore Sakurai as an artist. But saying he "Needs a break," which I often read, is comparitively ridiculous. You don't even need to be a resident of Japan to get universal healthcare. They treat you like human beings.

Meanwhile, at Walmart and McDonalds...

they have been trying to fix this here due to growing trends in “death by overwork”. Teachers here typically work 7:30 am to anywhere from 6 to 9 pm and also work weekends and vacations. I don’t have to do this but the science teacher at my school is also the baseball coach so they do that job during the weekend.

It’s my understanding that Sakurai has three houses: one he shares with his wife, his work/development house, and finally a summer home he goes to for vacations and such.

Just gonna say- that's true here, too. Teachers are slaves and do it all day.

 

[Momotsuki]

This is the most I'm expecting if we get anything more, TBH. It would fit the leftover 4 slots well: An Echo bundle released either as a cheaper pass, and maybe even a potential freebie for those who purchased both passes. It'd round out the roster number and end the game on a really cool note, IMO.

If this means we get Funky Kong I'm all for it. Take away cargo throw, cut his weight in half, and give him Jigglypuff air speed.

 

[TwiceEXE]

Sephiroth was, from what we know, a supposed deal maker: Square Enix wanted Cloud to stay DLC to make money, Nintendo wanted him base game. Square gets money for DLC characters, Nintendo gets top tier picks in their game. If Steve is anything to go by, as well as the fact that Mii costumes were clearly saved for these reveals as opposed to all being conveniently cut, these picks were likely decided plenty of time in advance.

Where exactly does this originate from? I have seen this sentiment, or something similar, many times in the past few days but never heard how people came up with this idea. Is it just a nameless rumor or was there a verifiable source that suggested it might be the case?

 

[PeridotGX]

do we know if there's a stage limit, like how there's a character limit of 4 after vol.2?

A stage/music pass is genuinely something i want.

 

[cashregister9]

HORRIBLY OFF TOPIC TIME!

I've noticed this lately but it's something I want to bring up, Since Sephiroth has been revealed people have immediately started saying that Chun-li and Eggman are frontrunners, yes their chances have definitely increased but just because of Sephiroth that does not mean that there will be another instance of this or that they are the most likely.

Folks thought F-pass 1 was going to be all third party. it was not

People thought After Min-min it was going to be all first party. It was not

After Steve people thought it was going to be newer characters and Jonesy was the most likely, That did not happen.

I'm not saying those characters won't happen because they very well could.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I’d be down for a under $10 echo pass consisting of just fighters and music. An actual FP3 seems highly improbable imo.

This is the most I'm expecting if we get anything more, TBH. It would fit the leftover 4 slots well: An Echo bundle released either as a cheaper pass, and maybe even a potential freebie for those who purchased both passes. It'd round out the roster number and end the game on a really cool note, IMO.

I gotta agree now that it's mentioned if we get anything more it'll be a cheap Echo Pack. I recall it was said the game could only hold up to 90 characters before crashing, something around those lines I heard...

Making 4 echos wouldn't take up as much data and easy and quick to make

 

[chocolatejr9]

Where exactly does this originate from? I have seen this sentiment, or something similar, many times in the past few days but never heard how people came up with this idea. Is it just a nameless rumor or was there a verifiable source that suggested it might be the case?

I believe it's some kind of rumor, specifically one that started on the Japanese side of the fanbase, apparently. Don't know anything for certain, though.

 

[N3ON]

To quote Maximilian Dood : "Nintendo would be outright foolish to end Smash Ultimate DLC now" or something like that
Street Fighter 5 came out like 6 years ago at this point and it's still getting dlc I think lmao

I would like to get Smash DLC as long as possible, but to be fair, it's been downright foolish Nintendo hasn't provided any paid DLC for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Nor Mario Odyssey.

Nintendo could keep the Smash train going as long as the Switch is current. Maybe longer. But because they're Nintendo, them curtailing the action after this pass wouldn't be uncharacteristic. It wouldn't have even been uncharacteristic to have cut things off after last pass.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Octoling is one of those four Echos I could see for sure.

 

[pupNapoleon]

HORRIBLY OFF TOPIC TIME!

I've noticed this lately but it's something I want to bring up, Since Sephiroth has been revealed people have immediately started saying that Chun-li and Eggman are frontrunners, yes their chances have definitely increased but just because of Sephiroth that does not mean that there will be another instance of this or that they are the most likely.

Folks thought F-pass 1 was going to be all third party. it was not

People thought After Min-min it was going to be all first party. It was not

After Steve people thought it was going to be newer characters and Jonesy was the most likely, That did not happen.

I'm not saying those characters won't happen because they very well could.

Smash fans are often shortsighted. I think every single character as DLC has broken some stupid fan rule.





Yet me have them, and enforce them.


(And worse, sometimes we all fall into them. I certainly didnt want Sephy. I'm coming around. But it's not hype for me to have more FF and RPG.
=====though he does look cool, even if not unique. And he is a legend. And he does have a shirtless skin, allegedly. But he isn't Sora or Lara, and that's unforgivable!)

 

[TwiceEXE]

I've noticed this lately but it's something I want to bring up, Since Sephiroth has been revealed people have immediately started saying that Chun-li and Eggman are frontrunners, yes their chances have definitely increased but just because of Sephiroth that does not mean that there will be another instance of this or that they are the most likely.

I just want to point out that characters like Eggman's chances have not increased. All that has changed is that people's perception of their chances have changed. The DLC has been decided for a long time now so whatever character gets revealed doesn't actually change anything for future characters. It's simply a Schrödinger's cat situation where we have yet to observe all of the possibilities for DLC so we make assumptions based on what we know. And those assumptions change when we observe something and gain more knowledge. But that doesn't mean anything about the actual nature of the DLC and who has been choosen.

I believe it's some kind of rumor, specifically one that started on the Japanese side of the fanbase, apparently. Don't know anything for certain, though.

If that's the case then it sounds like it is no better than any random 4chan rumor.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I would like to get Smash DLC as long as possible, but to be fair, it's been downright foolish Nintendo hasn't provided any paid DLC for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Nor Mario Odyssey.

Nintendo could keep the Smash train going as long as the Switch is current. Maybe longer. But because they're Nintendo, them curtailing the action after this pass wouldn't be uncharacteristic. It wouldn't have even been uncharacteristic to have cut things off after last pass.

I dont understand all this hate Nintendo gets. They've been around longer than any other company because they don't sway with the wind. I still remember that first DLC ever with Luigi.......

They eventually get things correct. And they're a business. They want money. They brought out this Smash with the launch of the system. They have supported it very well. Do they ever get the benefit of the doubt?
All companies falter at times. Microsoft and Sony certainly have. It's only our devotion to them that makes us judge every single item.

And if we did- we wouldn't have some of the innovations we have in gaming. So, I'm alright with letting them experiment. Plus, I'm pretty confident in a third, maybe even fourth, pass. It seems preplanned.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

they have been trying to fix this here due to growing trends in “death by overwork”. Teachers here typically work 7:30 am to anywhere from 6 to 9 pm and also work weekends and vacations. I don’t have to do this but the science teacher at my school is also the baseball coach so they do that job during the weekend.

It’s my understanding that Sakurai has three houses: one he shares with his wife, his work/development house, and finally a summer home he goes to for vacations and such.

Hmm. Perhaps I should clarify that I was more speaking to things as a whole rather than on Sakurai's position specifically in that post.

There's just this notion that "Sakurai needs a break."
I'm sorry- no he doesn't. He wouldn't want one, and who the hell just gets a break from work? And how is that a work ethic?
I adore Sakurai as an artist. But saying he "Needs a break," which I often read, is comparitively ridiculous.

It probably stems from stories of him getting so into his work that he falls ill, and then comes back the next day with an IV drip in his arm. That doesn't exactly sound healthy. But as others have said, it is ultimately his choice. Whether his choice killing him is tragic or awe inspiring is a matter of perspective. Did the poor man work himself to death or did he die doing the thing he loved?

And of course, that's assuming the consequence is death. There's no telling what will happen, and he could be perfectly fine in the end.

 

[7NATOR]

Smash fans are often shortsighted. I think every single character as DLC has broken some stupid fan rule.





Yet me have them, and enforce them.


(And worse, sometimes we all fall into them. I certainly didnt want Sephy. I'm coming around. But it's not hype for me to have more FF and RPG.
=====though he does look cool, even if not unique. And he is a legend. And he does have a shirtless skin, allegedly. But he isn't Sora or Lara, and that's unforgivable!)

Well Hopefully after Sephiroth, It will get people to perhaps consider potential Fan Rules or Patterns, consider why they are heralded (the reasoning why these fan rules exist), and perhaps Look at Character's Actual Merit toward Smash and see if they can Conquer that fan rule, and how they match up against other characters

Well at least hopefully...

 

[cashregister9]

I still think that Zack Fair should be in as an echo he is just Cloud but interesting but I think Sephy has shattered that dream. Unless for some reason we get 3 FFVII reps. EDIT: Wait I think that Sephiroth actually helps Zack's chances as a potential echo now that I think about it

I just want to point out that characters like Eggman's chances have not increased. All that has changed is that people's perception of their chances have changed. The DLC has been decided for a long time now so whatever character gets revealed doesn't actually change anything for future characters. It's simply a Schrödinger's cat situation where we have yet to observe all of the possibilities for DLC so we make assumptions based on what we know. And those assumptions change when we observe something and gain more knowledge. But that doesn't mean anything about the actual nature of the DLC and who has been choosen.

You hit the nail on the head, I am bad with words.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

It’s my understanding that Sakurai has three houses: one he shares with his wife, his work/development house, and finally a summer home he goes to for vacations and such.

Don't forget his Minecraft house!

 

[pupNapoleon]

I just want to point out that characters like Eggman's chances have not increased. All that has changed is that people's perception of their chances have changed. The DLC has been decided for a long time now so whatever character gets revealed doesn't actually change anything for future characters. It's simply a Schrödinger's cat situation where we have yet to observe all of the possibilities for DLC so we make assumptions based on what we know. And those assumptions change when we observe something and gain more knowledge. But that doesn't mean anything about the actual nature of the DLC and who has been choosen.

You're fully correct- but that's all it means when fans say "chances." Recency means relevancy, too. We have a lot of misnomers, and as a whole, follow stupid rules that are constantly broken.

But hey- everyone needs some wool- the sheep are needed.