Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[TheBeastHimself]

Is anyone aware of how popular 2K games are over in Japan? I think it'd be super cool to see a Borderlands or Bioshock rep in Smash. Those series aren't discussed frequently in the speculation scene. They're not the biggest, most revolutionary shooters in gaming, but 2K puts a unique spin on their shooters. They're fantastic storytellers in this department which immerses the player into the worlds of their FPS/Looting/RPG games.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Is anyone aware of how popular 2K games are over in Japan? I think it'd be super cool to see a Borderlands or Bioshock rep in Smash. Those series aren't discussed frequently in the speculation scene. They're not the biggest, most revolutionary shooters in gaming, but 2K puts a unique spin on their shooters. They're fantastic storytellers in this department which immerses the player into the worlds of their FPS/Looting/RPG games.

Idk about a playable rep but I would be so content with a Bioshock series spirit event, Infinite was my obsession back in 2013. I loved that game’s aesthetic

 

[TheCJBrine]

Seriously- if (I'm) the one being an issue, I'd really appreciate the feedback. I believe in justice, and I believe in self correction.
I don't see that as this current conversation- and I think I'm decent at admitting when I'm wrong.

So please. Speak up. I always encourage that. Silence is evil, and silence is part of the current problem in the world. It's literally why I work as a journalist in PR.

Idk what happened, but based on what I remember of older posts of yours, don’t you focus more on the character being a costume than an actual playable character? Like wanting him as just a costume, and saying “he’d be the perfect mii costume” or something to those who are aware he could be a costume, and may like him as one more than nothing, but argue he could be playable and want him that way as they see him being represented better as a character with his actual moves? Maybe that rubbed some people the wrong way, idk. It is uncalled for to be aggressive over it, though; while I believe I have also argued with you about Steve in the past, you never appear to be a troll or anything similar like some users may have thought you were (I’m assuming since they got mad; I wasn’t online to see), and you seem reasonable and genuine.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Tl;dr: Talking it out could work things out, it'll just never happen.

Wait... isn't that what I was doing?
I've gone out of my way to say I support Geno.
Maybe it's some mental block, but how is it not supporting a character to want them as a preMiium?
And... why does that only apply to Geno?

I'm being accused of 'derailing' this thread somehow (despite the fact that we make sex jokes about characters and talk about completely irrelevant games), and that it's considered harassment of the mods to claim that here, rather than privately.

Is that true? Am I just crazy to think otherwise? I (feel) I've been attempting both from the beginning, and in an especially civil way (aka, eggshells).

Idk what happened, but based on what I remember of older posts of yours, don’t you focus more on the character being a costume than an actual playable character? Like wanting him as just a costume, and saying “he’d be the perfect mii costume” or something to those who are aware he could be a costume, and may like him as one more than nothing, but argue he could be playable and want him that way as they see him being represented better as a character with his actual moves? Maybe that rubbed some people the wrong way, idk. It is uncalled for to be aggressive over it, though; while I believe I have also argued with you about Steve in the past, you never appear to be a troll or anything similar like some users may have thought you were (I’m assuming since they got mad; I wasn’t online to see), and you seem reasonable and genuine.

Yes. Directly what I think. And I dont feel I say it in a derogatory way. It's said in threads all the time. I can literally go quote this from other characters.
I like Geno. What I've played from SMRPG, even though I don't like RPGs, is actually really fun.
He's an awesome costume.

Why isn't that supporting a character? I'm not saying, "***** this guy, let him rot in hell." I'm saying this version of inclusion in Smash seems like his destiny, and his best option.

 

[PK Duststorm]

Lol mod harassment sounds like such a load of crap on their end. Sounds like bias coming to fruition. Someone's out to get you mate, and I hope they get a kick in their arse for coming after you.

 

[cashregister9]

It's a funny coincidence. This guy's mostly just fanart and laughs. Case in point:

eheh funny consoles pic.twitter.com/QjRC7YWDzg

— 🦀 YORA 🦀 (@yoracrab) September 9, 2020

Especially Since they made a joke referencing the Art already...

nintendo is coming after me aren't they pic.twitter.com/x6Llh6vbbc

— 🦀 YORA 🦀 (@yoracrab) December 12, 2020

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Wait... isn't that what I was doing?
I've gone out of my way to say I support Geno.
Maybe it's some mental block, but how is it not supporting a character to want them as a preMiium?
And... why does that only apply to Geno?

I'm being accused of 'derailing' this thread somehow (despite the fact that we make sex jokes about characters and talk about completely irrelevant games), and that it's considered harassment of the mods to claim that here, rather than privately.

Is that true? Am I just crazy to think otherwise? I (feel) I've been attempting both from the beginning, and in an especially civil way (aka, eggshells).

I'm not talking about you and your grievances specifically. I mean for multiple members (in addition to yourself) from both parties to come out and discuss their grievances.

From their perspective, saying you support a character as preMiium comes across as "this person doesn't think our character is good enough to warrant being playable." Which, to me, is pretty dumb, only because you're literally supporting the character, just in a different way. You're not saying "**** Geno and his supporters, Geno sucks, Geno doesn't deserve to be in!" To make my point clear, I don't think what you said about Geno being a Mii Costume is wrong.

I'm not sure if this truly only applies to Geno because I'm not that savvy on this site to know those kinds of things, but it's likely because some members of the Geno community can be seen as... volatile. The mods probably don't know the best approach to deal with the problematic users without overstepping their power...? Honestly not sure on this one.

And don't worry about derailing the thread with this discussion. People go on and on about Byleth, sex jokes (as you've said), etc. Geno just isn't a popular discussion choice, but if the thread were being derailed by something popular, nobody would have a problem.

 

[Peeton]

I’m really surprised you guys thought Bowie was leaker! He’s literally just a Twitter personality. He drew that as a sort of dream pass and not a leak or prediction or anything. Sometimes people really go deep into evidence (grinch) and other times they don’t.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm not talking about you and your grievances specifically. I mean for multiple members (in addition to yourself) from both parties to come out and discuss their grievances.

From their perspective, saying you support a character as preMiium comes across as "this person doesn't think our character is good enough to warrant being playable." Which, to me, is pretty dumb, only because you're literally supporting the character, just in a different way. You're not saying "**** Geno and his supporters, Geno sucks, Geno doesn't deserve to be in!" To make my point clear, I don't think what you said about Geno being a Mii Costume is wrong.

I'm not sure if this truly only applies to Geno because I'm not that savvy on this site to know those kinds of things, but it's likely because some members of the Geno community can be seen as... volatile. The mods probably don't know the best approach to deal with the problematic users without overstepping their power...? Honestly not sure on this one.

And don't worry about derailing the thread with this discussion. People go on and on about Byleth, sex jokes (as you've said), etc. Geno just isn't a popular discussion choice, but if the thread were being derailed by something popular, nobody would have a problem.

It's actually moreso that my job is, in real life, in PR and as a journalist. I guess I just find it odd that it is apparently against the rules to make a public claim that disapproves of the moderators.

But I will comply. I'm a Jew. If it's considered harassment, then that's the rules. It's definitely not how I interpret them, but it's the rules. I've been cited with 14 points in two days, and this is the answer I'm getting. So, pardon my conversation about 'if I'm wrong,' I'll just silently comply and not question why.

 

[SharkLord]

I'm not sure if this truly only applies to Geno because I'm not that savvy on this site to know those kinds of things, but it's likely because some members of the Geno community can be seen as... volatile. The mods probably don't know the best approach to deal with the problematic users without overstepping their power...? Honestly not sure on this one.

I think it's because we've just been building animosity over time At some point, the two threads diverged, and with it their mindsets. The newcomer thread became more skeptical, and the Geno thread more enthusiastic. One side got aggressive for whatever reason, and then so did the other. The negativity grew within the threads, until it just solidified. At least, that's how I think it went.

 

[Giga Man]

I don't care if this is recency bias. I just want this.

And Ms. Pac-Man as a bonus echo fighter as a final sendoff from Bandai Namco at the end of their development of the game.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Yeah KOS-MOS ain't happening lol. If we get any Xenoblade characters it's gonna be Elma.

If we get any Xenoblade Characters, it will be Rex.

 

[7NATOR]

Regarding the Geno Thread Situation and Mods Coming after pupNapoleon

I think Honestly it's probably just to keep the Peace in each thread. Bringing Up Geno as a Premium costume shouldn't, and I don't think is against the rules and such like that, but I Know Indviduals in the Geno thread can be fickle with that Suggestion, and with Sephiroth being in, it might be worse. There are Geno fans that are more open to the idea especially now, but it's also the Opposite way perhaps, So I think it's just the mods way of just saying it's really not a good idea, though I don't think it should require you get banned, that's no Good

And yeah, this Thread Derails a whole bunch. It Turns into Meme factory, or Sex Jokes (as Mentioned) or other game discussion, especially with TLOU2 before TGA's.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Also, a few fun things, since I've been a bit of a Grinch (wait... maybe I shouldnt say that after posting I'm Jewish)...

Being really sick has the benefit of allowing you to play more games
I still don't understand how to navigate WoL, but I enjoy it a lot more
Even FE3H is fun! I'm definitely wishing we got Edelgard, but that's okay.
I'm getting to see snow for the first time in 4 years! This might be my favorite.
I finally figured out today how to display my 80+ Smash amiibo.
Otters are so cute.

Fun list!

 

[Cosmic77]

This is going to be the thread for the next week or so isn't it?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Wait... isn't that what I was doing?
I've gone out of my way to say I support Geno.
Maybe it's some mental block, but how is it not supporting a character to want them as a preMiium?
And... why does that only apply to Geno?

I'm being accused of 'derailing' this thread somehow (despite the fact that we make sex jokes about characters and talk about completely irrelevant games), and that it's considered harassment of the mods to claim that here, rather than privately.

Is that true? Am I just crazy to think otherwise? I (feel) I've been attempting both from the beginning, and in an especially civil way (aka, eggshells).


Yes. Directly what I think. And I dont feel I say it in a derogatory way. It's said in threads all the time. I can literally go quote this from other characters.
I like Geno. What I've played from SMRPG, even though I don't like RPGs, is actually really fun.
He's an awesome costume.

Why isn't that supporting a character? I'm not saying, "***** this guy, let him rot in hell." I'm saying this version of inclusion in Smash seems like his destiny, and his best option.

I think I understand; you think a mii costume is the best he’s likely to get, so you support him as one because you like him and want him to be in the game in some fashion. That sounds perfectly fine to me, I know that’s how it is for me and some other people when it comes to indie characters (like Freddy Fazbear, Hat Kid, etc.), even if we’d love for them to be actual fighters as well. Maybe some users misinterpreted what you were saying, idk, though they were still in the wrong for being aggressive over it.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

It's actually moreso that my job is, in real life, in PR and as a journalist. I guess I just find it odd that it is apparently against the rules to make a public claim that disapproves of the moderators.

But I will comply. I'm a Jew. If it's considered harassment, then that's the rules. It's definitely not how I interpret them, but it's the rules. I've been cited with 14 points in two days, and this is the answer I'm getting. So, pardon my conversation about 'if I'm wrong,' I'll just silently comply and not question why.

I'm in college right actually to get into PR! Have you tried reaching out to mods and having a full discussion about your issues and you think they could be dealt with more appropriately?

 

[Momotsuki]

Yeah KOS-MOS ain't happening lol. If we get any Xenoblade characters it's gonna be Elma.

Well do I have news for you...

 

[pupNapoleon]

This is going to be the thread until Sakurai retires, isn't it?

Fixed

 

[BritishGuy54]

I remember bringing up Reimu at early 2019 and not many people treated her seriously. Wild how that changed.

I dunno. Reimu in Smash would stick out like a sore thumb to be honest.

 

[Momotsuki]

I dunno. [Insert LITERALLY ANYONE here] in Smash would stick out like a sore thumb to be honest.

When will we learn?

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think I understand; you think a mii costume is the best he’s likely to get, so you support him as one because you like him and want him to be in the game in some fashion. That sounds perfectly fine to me, I know that’s how it is for me and some other people when it comes to indie characters (like Freddy Fazbear, Hat Kid, etc.), even if we’d love for them to be actual fighters as well. Maybe some users misinterpreted what you were saying, idk, though they were still in the wrong for being aggressive over it.

Mostly, yeah.
I have a list of 100+ characters I want. I love video games.
But I cannot see Geno getting in beyond a Mii. And it actually would suit him (now--- the cosplay characters make me ill).

Speaking of being ill.

I'm in college right actually to get into PR! Have you tried reaching out to mods and having a full discussion about your issues and you think they could be dealt with more appropriately?

1- My best advice for you. Get ready to take a LOT of ****. That's half the job.
2- I'm working on reaching out to mods. I've mentioned it a bit casually to some of them, but I was so ill last week I missed Sephiroth. There were four days I couldn't eat or drink. So, ya know, it's what it is.

Sometimes that's life with long term issues. I wish I knew Delzethin to discuss that more.
It certainly makes me a LOT more blunt. Which is why I work on camera now more than just with words.
I swear I'm charming when you watch me. But I don't always spend the time with my words to make sure people feel comforted and loved.

Or maybe I'm just blond and have white privilege. That's for sure possible, but I hope not true.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

pupNapoleon
TBH, in this specific instance, you came in at the wrong time and misunderstood some comments as being directed at you when they were initially directed at other people. Then things got more extreme. Sorry I didn't step in earlier. I'm fairly conflict avoidant and when I try to make peace it tends to go badly so I tend to dip. I hope things work out.

 

[Icedragonadam]

So basically with an avergae of 2.5 months per characters since it seems like the very complex characters are done with now.

Sephiroth: Late December
CP9: Early-Mid March
CP10: Late May-Early June
CP11: Mid-Late August

While it seems too early, they did say they were on track with the DLC.

 

[SharkLord]

I dunno. Reimu in Smash would stick out like a sore thumb to be honest.

At this point I legitimately don't know what the theme of Smash is supposed to be anymore

 

[Lyncario]

Are we supposed to read this post to the tune of a song or something?

Of course we're supposed to sing it to the tune of OWA.

 

[Momotsuki]

View attachment 295544
At this point I legitimately don't know what the theme of Smash is supposed to be anymore

To be completely fair, Steve would probably look more out of place and uncanny had they tried to have him fit in. That said, it just goes to show that homogenity is not at all a concern, nor should it be for a roster of supposed all-stars.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

So this is probably like 7 pages late, but really?
“It’s all downhill after Sephiroth!” Bruh that’s LITERALLY what was said by some after Steve.

Steve and Sephiroth are probably the highest points of this Pass, but do I think that means that big-hype characters are done? NO.

You guys do realize that we have 3 more characters to go with nearly a year left, right? Unless Nintendo wants any attention to Smash to greatly decrease, I don’t think there’s gonna be a total lack of hype/attention drawing additions.

As others have said, have some self-awareness here. After Steve everybody thought the budget was blown. Then we get a character who was MOST LIKELY expensive to acquire. We also have potential background information that Sephiroth, and Fighter Pass 2, were planned earlier than we thought (which makes sense considering costumes were held back until now). Sephiroth was not added to start a trend of villains, and it CERTAINLY was not because “he’s hype, so now we can put less hype characters in”.

Lastly, suggesting that Sephiroth getting revealed now is a positive for first parties is...what? How does Sephiroth help any one character or archetype of character? He’s Sephiroth! Trying to put this into specific characters or types of characters benefiting, I think, is a major stretch.

As always, I do expect the following: smaller character to follow (1st or 3rd party but my guess is 3rd), a potentially big character at E3 (essentially last E3 for Smash Ultimate news), and then a wild card for last pick for a number of reasons.

With added context of the DLC picks I just don’t see how Sephiroth specifically helps any other characters at this point. I think it’s looking too deep at this point. The only thing I’d argue is that this hurts Square characters quite a bit.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The only reason why I think Lloyd Mii costume could return with Sephiroth is that the other 2 Bandai Namco mii costumes have come back with the last 2 fighters, so following that Lloyd would be the next logical step (not to mention Sephiroth happens to be a JRPG character like Lloyd so....)
I also lost faith in any Bandai Namco character appearing as dlc anyways (as much as I want KOS-MOS, I feel Rex and Pyra/Mythra should really get their spot on one of the next 3 dlc characters)

Wait.... we get 3 JRPG characters each DLC (well, so far, 2/3 passes).

Though I do think the Mii character theory is illogical. Or rather, that it absolutely indicates pass 2 was planned from the start. Since that's how math works.

 

[Lyncario]

View attachment 295544
At this point I legitimately don't know what the theme of Smash is supposed to be anymore

I would say that it's Nintendo and Sakurai's crazy final last ride where they go all out on everything, but even then it doesn't feel like it's enough to describe what Smash became, at least not anymore.

 

[Momotsuki]

So this is probably like 7 pages late, but really?
“It’s all downhill after Sephiroth!” Bruh that’s LITERALLY what was said by some after Steve.

Steve and Sephiroth are probably the highest points of this Pass, but do I think that means that big-hype characters are done? NO.

You guys do realize that we have 3 more characters to go with nearly a year left, right? Unless Nintendo wants any attention to Smash to greatly decrease, I don’t think there’s gonna be a total lack of hype/attention drawing additions.

As others have said, have some self-awareness here. After Steve everybody thought the budget was blown. Then we get a character who was MOST LIKELY expensive to acquire. We also have potential background information that Sephiroth, and Fighter Pass 2, were planned earlier than we thought (which makes sense considering costumes were held back until now). Sephiroth was not added to start a trend of villains, and it CERTAINLY was not because “he’s hype, so now we can put less hype characters in”.

Lastly, suggesting that Sephiroth getting revealed now is a positive for first parties is...what? How does Sephiroth help any one character or archetype of character? He’s Sephiroth! Trying to put this into specific characters or types of characters benefiting, I think, is a major stretch.

As always, I do expect the following: smaller character to follow (1st or 3rd party but my guess is 3rd), a potentially big character at E3 (essentially last E3 for Smash Ultimate news), and then a wild card for last pick for a number of reasons.

With added context of the DLC picks I just don’t see how Sephiroth specifically helps any other characters at this point. I think it’s looking too deep at this point. The only thing I’d argue is that this hurts Square characters quite a bit.

We're getting the real climax of this pass come this summer, and they'll be sandwiched between two more tame, "niche" picks. I'm more confident of this than I probably should be. The timing makes a ridiculous amount of sense. I've never felt like I had all the cards before when it comes to speculation.

 

[Deleted member]

I dunno. Reimu in Smash would stick out like a sore thumb to be honest.

I don't know about that.

Just admit you don't like her. Don't say nonsense stuff like that.

 

[BritishGuy54]

How do you think our next fighter will kill Mario?

Rex will kill Mario with freaking Siren.
Crash will spin him into oblivion.
Eggman will just blow him up.

 

[7NATOR]

So basically with an avergae of 2.5 months per characters since it seems like the very complex characters are done with now.

Sephiroth - Late December
CP9- Early-Mid March
CP10: Late May-Early June
CP11: Mid-Late August

While it seems too early, they did say they were on track with the DLC.

I do think that December 2021 Date at this point seemed like a Placeholder, rather than a Hard date

We got Min-Min, Steve, and Sephiroth all in One year, along with the fact that Byleth released this year as well, so that's 4 Characters released. That's actually the Same Amount of Characters released in 2019.

EDIT: Actually there were 5 Characters in 2019. Sorry about that

We only Have 3 Characters at this Point. I think we could actually finish by Fall, or even Earlier

 

[pupNapoleon]

I do think that December 2021 Date at this point seemed like a Placeholder, rather than a Hard date

We got Min-Min, Steve, and Sephiroth all in One year, along with the fact that Byleth released this year as well, so that's 4 Characters released. That's actually the Same Amount of Characters released in 2019.

EDIT: Actually there were 5 Characters in 2019. Sorry about that

We only Have 3 Characters at this Point. I think we could actually finish by Fall, or even Earlier

Until we get pass 3.
I wish I could have gotten that conversation to catch on. The pros and cons one. And why it is logically incredibly likely.

... maybe I'm a robot. I think I'm a robot.
Or Abed from Community. I do relate to most things to TV...

Okay great. Now I'm paranoid this is derailing again. Maybe this is a tumor. **** it. Let's play Smash, someone? I wanna test out my PP, Banjo, and KR.

 

[Momotsuki]

I think a third pass is pretty much impossible to discuss at the moment. There is no evidence for or against it going one way or the other, and we've got a lot on our plate to think about as it is.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Until we get pass 3.
I wish I could have gotten that conversation to catch on. The pros and cons one. And why it is logically incredibly likely.

... maybe I'm a robot. I think I'm a robot.
Or Abed from Community. I do relate to most things to TV...

Okay great. Now I'm paranoid this is derailing again. Maybe this is a tumor. **** it. Let's play Smash, someone? I wanna test out my PP, Banjo, and KR.

I'm just waiting for Sephiroth to drop so i can do some video projects with my Elgato HD 60 S

speaking of I might go on hiatus from this place too for a bit, only popping into socials and plugging potential Twitch streams (I got a possible release-day-or-close-to-it Shantae And The Seven Sirens stream series planned)

just lemme do some of my last predictions before i dip from the thread, it's gon b meaty im going full DaybreakHorizon in here (miss u man)

 

[pupNapoleon]

We're getting the real climax of this pass come this summer, and they'll be sandwiched between two more tame, "niche" picks. I'm more confident of this than I probably should be. The timing makes a ridiculous amount of sense. I've never felt like I had all the cards before when it comes to speculation.

Honestly... I thought I had the cards this time too. I got most of the roster right after echoes were revealed, I got 3/5 of the first pass revealed, and I knew Min Min and Steve were likely.

But Then Terry and Sephiroth come around. And suddenly the Earth is a cube.

 

[Deleted member]

View attachment 295544
At this point I legitimately don't know what the theme of Smash is supposed to be anymore

I honestly still think it is a celebration of gaming. Like you can't get every popular character.

If Nintendo selected the most famous characters out there, we would have a Tetris Block, CJ, Steve, a FIFA character, and a Call of Duty character for FP1. You could probably replace Call of Duty with PUBG or a LEGO character.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I think a third pass is pretty much impossible to discuss at the moment. There is no evidence for or against it going one way or the other, and we've got a lot on our plate to think about as it is.

Schrodinger's Fighter Pass Vol. 3. The pass both exists and doesn't exist right now.