• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

7NATOR

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
4,089
Refresh my memory in case i'm misremembering but wasnt Sephiroth on the Square 7? That list that supposedly Nintendo was considering adding and negotiating for a spot?

It was a popular topic around the pre-E3 2019 days.
He was. I also believe Verge said that Sephiroth and Dragon Quest were heard the most characters (I need to find the source though), and they so happened to be Playable

Geno will likely return sometime, and Sora's been rumored to have failed in negotations, so the only character unaccounted for is Chrono
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
19,721
NNID
RieSonomura
Switch FC
SW-4976-7649-4666
Refresh my memory in case i'm misremembering but wasnt Sephiroth on the Square 7? That list that supposedly Nintendo was considering adding and negotiating for a spot?

It was a popular topic around the pre-E3 2019 days.
yeah. we also had these on the list: Slime (considered briefly, appears in Hero's taunt); Luminary (Hero's default appearance), Erdrick (one of Hero's alts); Crono (MIA), Geno (Spirit currently, may also have Mii costume return), and Sora (if the rumors are to be believed, tried to be negotiated for but said negotiations fell through)

too bad Neku and 2B weren't there, I'm sure they'll be Mii'd anyway. kinda hope so since I see 3 as the upper limit for third party characters. Counting Joker as Atlus personally
 

RileyXY1

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
7,602
It wouldn't be necessary for a remake. If it were to be done for a new game, it'd probably be for (and I'm just spitballing here) a new Kirby, Pikmin, Metroid, or The Legend of Zelda title.

EDIT: Perhaps it could still be Pokémon. We don't know if it'll be a remake or if there'll be a new game next year.
It will likely be a remake. It's far too early for a new gen.
 

Momotsuki

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
2,490
Location
endleSSS
It's a comparison I made before, but Smash reveals - divided into cases like base game reveals, and Volume 1, tends to come closer to dramatic structure, rather than ending with a bang with no time to wind down. It's just something I'd keep in mind.
 

TheTuninator

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
2,315
Ultimately, I just think it's pretty silly for people to go "yeah Byleth wasn't an exciting reveal for fans" based off of a perceived consensus among relatively inbred (in discussion terms) roster speculation communities when FE3H was a huge success for Nintendo. This is purely anecdotal, of course, but for me personally Byleth was probably the #2 most exciting character of the pass because Byleth and Joker were the characters whose games I had actually played. Many other people will be in the same boat. How many? We can't say, of course, and it may indeed be not that many people. But it'd behoove people to avoid the knee-jerk reactions in assuming that new FE stuff couldn't possibly get people excited more broadly when FE3H did really well and Smash DLC is aimed at the whole fanbase, not just highly-enfranchised communities like this one. I'd be quite confident in stating that many of the characters which rank as "more popular" in discussion here would be relatively unknown (and thus unpopular) to the broader fanbase, and vice versa. It's simply the nature of small discussion communities like this one.

Market research isn't clairvoyance. There is ultimately no way to tell how much exactly a game is going to sell. It could have gone the way of Shadows of Valentia for all they knew.
Sure, but it didn't, so that's a moot point - they expected a success, and they were right. So that settles the business side of things re: their inclusion, and as for the hype side, we're talking about fan perceptions of how exciting Byleth's inclusion was, which is entirely a post-release thing.
 

Oracle Link

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 9, 2020
Messages
3,849
Location
Germany
Admittedly that was jumping the gun. Each phase of Ultimate's development seems to drop what the fandom considers two "hype bombs" (E3 2018 and August 8, Joker and Hero/Banjo dual reveal), then it goes "downhill". And now we've gotten our second "hype bomb".
This is what im Trying to say but i hope this means we get some nice 1st/2nd Party reps
 

Nekoo

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 19, 2014
Messages
4,825
Location
Behind you !
NNID
Almazu
3DS FC
0259-0278-5162
Cross Posting from the Geno Thread, because I think that It's relevant for Speculation -

I'm going to be very much honest with you guys.
First of all, even if my avatar might says otherwise, I'm a Square-Enix fans and JPRG nerd first and foremost, and Sephiroth Inclusion was an absolute delight for me.
However, one thing I think that is good to understand is that Sephiroth inclusion is big, EXTREMELY Big, and it's mother****ing Sephiroth. If he's in, it's because Nintendo and Sakurai wanted him. Not because he was a replacement for Sora cuz talks fell through/Or because SE said no to Geno cuz LOL MUH OBSCURE

Sephiroth is Sephiroth, Mother****ing Sephiroth THE edgy Anime Swordsman and probably in the top 3/4 of most influencial Gamin Vilain ever.
But the other thing that this pass teached us, is that I truly believe this pack was tailored for fans in mind, and I'm going to go on a hunch that the budget for it was MUCH bigger...Steve was in talks for years apparently, and Sephiroth is ****ing sephiroth, they probably didn't get him for a cereal box price.

While you guys might not see it as "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MOST ASKED CHARACTERS" I'm going to counter that with "VIDEO-GAMES FANS" beside Min-Min which was literally to be said to be a demand from Nintendo Themselves, Steve and Sephiroth? They're not Heavy hitter...They're HUMONGUS hitters in terms of Video Games influence, who probably beat any of the characters of FP1 by themselves (probably only contested by Hero in term of influence)

Which makes me think, that this pass? Nintendo/Sakurai, they're just going to asks for characters they want, and probably get them they probably don't care about double dipping a dev (Microsoft/SE) or even a franchise (FF7)... So, I'm going go on a hunch that, unless the dreaded Mii Costume shows up, Geno might come down latter down the line. I can't see this pass not having AT LEAST one "Fan Favorite" like Banjo-Kazooie were for FP1

And really in term of long "Fan Favorites" ? We don't have much left beside Geno, Sora, Crash? And what? We actually probably have all if not most of the "Never ever" possible and even more with ****ing Sephiroth joining in.
 

I.D.

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
1,552
Ultimately, I just think it's pretty silly for people to go "yeah Byleth wasn't an exciting reveal for fans" based off of a perceived consensus among relatively inbred (in discussion terms) roster speculation communities when FE3H was a huge success for Nintendo.
What is really silly is that 3H fans can't just be happy that they got their character and move on already. If we had gotten Ring Fit Trainer or Officer Howard instead of Byleth nobody would have ever put into question their promotional nature, but since we got another fire emblemer instead we still have to argue the obvious a year later.
 
Last edited:

SharkLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
7,748
Location
Pangaea, 250 MYA
And really in term of long "Fan Favorites" ? We don't have much left beside Geno, Sora, Crash? And what? We actually probably have all if not most of the "Never ever" possible and even more with ****ing Sephiroth joining in.
I feel like Isaac would fit better than Crash, seeing as the latter only truly flared up recently. Might as well throw Lloyd in there too while we're at it, and after that I admittedly haven't been around long enough to say who else we could add.
 

Guynamednelson

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
13,526
NNID
Nelson340
3DS FC
2105-8742-2099
Switch FC
SW 4265 6024 9719
I feel like Isaac would fit better than Crash, seeing as the latter only truly flared up recently. Might as well throw Lloyd in there too while we're at it, and after that I admittedly haven't been around long enough to say who else we could add.
To be fair, it's hard to tell when certain Smash fanbases have died down more than others, but Krystal was up there as well.
 
Last edited:

Nekoo

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 19, 2014
Messages
4,825
Location
Behind you !
NNID
Almazu
3DS FC
0259-0278-5162
I feel like Isaac would fit better than Crash, seeing as the latter only truly flared up recently. Might as well throw Lloyd in there too while we're at it, and after that I admittedly haven't been around long enough to say who else we could add.
I was specifically targetting the "never ever" characters for that line, but yes, Isaac for double dipping first party, or Llyod too!
I genuinely think this pass is going to be wild, beside Min-Min. I refuse to believe Nintendo saw the line up of six characters, and went "Okay, let's put Sephiroth and Steve here...And the last 3? Idk man, some obscure ****)
 

7NATOR

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
4,089
It's a comparison I made before, but Smash reveals - divided into cases like base game reveals, and Volume 1, tends to come closer to dramatic structure, rather than ending with a bang with no time to wind down. It's just something I'd keep in mind.
We've noticed that. It's also makes sense from a Business Standpoint since you want to secure as much Sales in the Beginning compared to at the end, so they put who they think will Sell the most

I think Min-Min is really curious though. She was the character to start off everything in the First place, and she was the E3 Reveal (well what would have been E3 anyway). Whether Steve was to be there is kind of a theory, but in any case, if we go off the Logic that The Beginning characters are more Popular on Average than the Ending Characters, Than that's a very interesting Discussion

Min-Min is a Character that wasn't a Spectacular Wow like Joker was for Fighter Pass 1, so I can only Imagine that these Next Characters in some form lacked some type of Precense that Min-Min had. Perhaps it's Unfamiliarity with Nintendo Audience, or Lack of Smash Requests (ARMS was heavily talked about, even alot of the time just rooted in Predictions, for Smash).

The only other thing I could think of to explain Min-Min being First is that Min-Min, being a First party, was easier to create as the first character in Fighter Pass 2. This might either Imply that there are no More First Parties, or that whoever the other 1st party characters are are more Controversial than Min-Min. Or Perhaps they really wanted to Promote the ARMS Series now in 2020 instead of waiting till 2021
 

TheBeastHimself

No time for tea, uncle, gotta capture the Avatar!
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Messages
2,427
Location
New York
However, one thing I think that is good to understand is that Sephiroth inclusion is big, EXTREMELY Big, and it's mother****ing Sephiroth. If he's in, it's because Nintendo and Sakurai wanted him. Not because he was a replacement for Sora cuz talks fell through/Or because SE said no to Geno cuz LOL MUH OBSCURE
Geno just doesn't seem prioritized when they have the ability to represent Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest (which, I don't even need to describe how enormous and legendary those franchises are).

Some may say "why'd they revive Banjo but not Geno?" Geno was in a single game, got cameo'd in another, then never showed up again. It's not like he spearheaded his own franchise like Banjo. Geno played as big of a role as Starlow, who actually probably made a bigger splash than Geno in her debut.
 

Guynamednelson

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
13,526
NNID
Nelson340
3DS FC
2105-8742-2099
Switch FC
SW 4265 6024 9719
I dunno about Sora and Crash, but I think the longest running requests are currently Geno, Lyn, Isaac, and Ashley.
IIRC Sora was a more popular request than Crash during the Brawl days, probably due to Crash having a dork age around then but then again so did Sonic.
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
64,142
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Lance Bass was a singer in N-Sync and the Idea that a member of N-Sync is in smash is just kinda funny

also they only got him to do fighting grunts for the First Kingdom Hearts and that makes it funnier to me personally.
Oh god Max's reaction vid joked about N-Sync in Smash before OWA started playing, he's too powerful
 

Nekoo

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 19, 2014
Messages
4,825
Location
Behind you !
NNID
Almazu
3DS FC
0259-0278-5162
This is the same series whose DLC once went from Ryu and Cloud to Corrin.
To be fair DLC for Smash 4 weren't much planned and there was no real plan beyond Mewtwo. As Sakurai was already working on Ultimate during that time and I'm going to bet my right hand that some of those deals were made for both Smash 4 and Ultimate, as Ultimate's base document, which Sakurai already said NO CHARACTERS FROM IT EVER GET CUTS was done the day of the final Smash 4 stream (so Cloud's deal was probably already sealed)


I dunno about Sora and Crash, but I think the longest running requests are currently Geno, Lyn, Isaac, and Ashley.
Jokingly enough, Sora was already heavily asked during the Brawl days behind Cloud and Geno, thanks to the burst of popularity of KH thanks to KH2, which is why he suddenly appeared years later in Smash Flash 2, because of this demands
 

TheTuninator

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
2,315
What is really silly is that 3H fans can't just be happy that they got their character and move on already. If we had gotten Ring Fit Trainer or Officer Howard instead of Byleth nobody would have ever put into question their promotional nature, but since we got another fire emblemer instead we still have to argue the obvious a year later.
Whoever said it wasn't promotional? Characters can be both promotional and popular. No need for salt.
 

Nekoo

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 19, 2014
Messages
4,825
Location
Behind you !
NNID
Almazu
3DS FC
0259-0278-5162
I can definitely believe Sora being a big request back then, it makes a ton of sense. I just don't remember it being a thing.
It's history being rewriten.
It's like people forgetting that Cloud was almost in every "Dream pick" for Brawl/post brawl after Snake and Sonic's inclusion, same for Sephiroth, and y'all know with what picture.

You know which one.

That damn Dissidia Artwork, always badly stretched out.
 

Mapusaurus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 12, 2020
Messages
112
Location
Ends blud
Hey that's me. Needless to say, I agree lol. If I were to add something to what I said here it would be that I DO think that there is a place for fan rules. I think that they should be used to develop one's own speculation model. I think if we stop basing speculation on any sort of pattern then we truly are just shooting in the dark. I think the current methods we are using as a community are ineffective, but I also think that there is a time and place estimating sales, popularity, etc... I just think it all needs to be reevaluated. thanks for sharing!
Hello, i am a big fan of your content i think a league of legends character would be interesting to see you weigh up
 

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
13,653
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
I swear, Sakurai can reveal ****ing Goku in Sephiroth's presentation and this thread would go back arguing over Byleth in two days at most.
That I'd have to disagree with for no other reason than the fact that Goku would probably be the one character that would be more controversial than him. lol
 

Oracle Link

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 9, 2020
Messages
3,849
Location
Germany
Sephiroth is Sephiroth, Mother****ing Sephiroth THE edgy Anime Swordsman and probably in the top 3/4 of most influencial Gamin Vilain ever.
But the other thing that this pass teached us, is that I truly believe this pack was tailored for fans in mind, and I'm going to go on a hunch that the budget for it was MUCH bigger...Steve was in talks for years apparently, and Sephiroth is ****ing sephiroth, they probably didn't get him for a cereal box price.
He is well known but definitly not in the top 3/4 most gaming Villans ever characters above him are
The Ghosts (Pac-man)
Donkey Kong
Bowser
Ganon
older Rpg villans
the first Goomba
Space Invaders
Dark-Link
Dedede(Kirby)
Nightmare (kirby)
Boxers (Punch out)

dont get me wrong Sephiroth (in FF7) is awesome but he is far too new to be in even a top ten list of the most Influencial Villans in Videogames

but he is one of the most Known Badguys
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
19,721
NNID
RieSonomura
Switch FC
SW-4976-7649-4666
Imagine if Sephiroth's presentation just kills all the returning Mii Costumes all at once.
realistically it'd probably just be all (or mostly) S-E costumes. I don't see Lloyd coming with him or MonHun for some reason

imma go out on a limb tho and declare we will get a non-SE PreMiium and that's Monokuma (Brawler with a Danganronpa remix) cause Monokuma is also all about dat despair

in fact if Lloyd is nowhere to be seen in the upcoming Mii part of the presentation, they could be saving him for KOS-MOS if the rumor is true
 
Last edited:

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
64,142
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
He is well known but definitly not in the top 3/4 most gaming Villans ever characters above him are
The Ghosts (Pac-man)
Donkey Kong
Bowser
Ganon
older Rpg villans
the first Goomba
Space Invaders
Dark-Link
Dedede(Kirby)
Nightmare (kirby)
Boxers (Punch out)

dont get me wrong Sephiroth (in FF7) is awesome but he is far too new to be in even a top ten list of the most Influencial Villans in Videogames

but he is one of the most Known Badguys
How the hell is a 23 year old JRPG that pushed the genre to mainstream levels and heavily influenced the genre 'too new'? It's especially funny when you can't name 'older JRPG villains' and 'boxers' while pretending One Winged Angel isn't literally the most iconic boss theme period
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom