Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[BernkastelWitch]

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What in the world?

Don't take the wikis estimate on age there for granted. The only wiki to take for granted for Touhou is https://en.touhouwiki.net/. Any other wiki tends to throw in a lot of headcanon and fandom stuff into the mix and treat it like canon.

She's depicted drinking alcohol and is as tall as some of the adult characters which means she's either an adult or Gensokyo is a lot freakier than the near 11-12 years I've been in Touhou than I thought.

 

[Deleted member]

I guess you could count Edelgard as a villain if you want to. I wouldn't argue with that.

Spoiler

Hmm, I wouldn't consider her a villain. More like a rival. You know, Red vs Blue, rather than Sonic vs Eggman.

Don't make me get into a debate into Three Houses, or else.

 

[extremeturkey]

Bowser Jr. is a literal toddler.

I mean. Do you know what toddlers are like IRL?
This is a toddler (baby Bowser)

Bowser jr reads more like a bratty 7-10 year old boy to me.

 

[Shroob]

Let's just say the world of Touhou is... something.

Looks pretty but everything out there is probably trying to attack you is basically the motto of Gensokyo.

So, Australia

 

[Deleted member]

It always reverts back to Fire Emblem.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Spoiler

Hmm, I wouldn't consider her a villain. More like a rival. You know, Red vs Blue, rather than Sonic vs Eggman.

Don't make me get into a debate into Three Houses, or else.

Spoiler

Edelgard's actions are apalling.

Sure her goal is ultimately good, but all the things she does to accomplish them put her straight in villain category.

The path to Hell is paved with good intentions, except Edelgard goes a bit beyond that.

There's a reason every other path has you kill her. She's a gigantic problem and a threat to all of Fodlan.

 

[cashregister9]

I Finally made my Fighter Pass 2

I've decided to go "**** it" and lean head first into my most wanted (except for Sakura :^( I would have put her on here but Crash has a lowkey better chance)

Crash: Needs no explanation

Saber: A Highly iconic character from a massive multimedia Franchise that continues to make money and is still consistently popular (yes the first game started as an eroge, Type-moon never acknowledges it and that version has never once been rereleased or ported, Bayo I think shatters that arguement anyways.)

Estelle: Falcom is highly prolific and influential and has been slowly getting more games on the switch and has had a history on Nintendo in the past and Trails is good and seems to be what Falcom is pushing for the most at the moment


EDIT: Other Potential Candidates: Reimu, Arle, Phoenix, Sakura, Sora, Dante

 

[Gitaroo]

the only correct additional FE choice is oliver

nvm too op
/s

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I acknowledge how this is a shallow thought, but I really hope we get one more character that's not a serious swordsman by the end of this pass. I swear, every swordsman (I think besides Meta Knight) just has that same "I'm very serious about slicing" look on their face.

Gimmie a goofy swordsman with a big ol' smile on their face!

 

[cashregister9]

pic.twitter.com/5WhstCcGqd

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) December 14, 2020

POTD

Big Swords

 

[Kokiden]

It always reverts back to Fire Emblem.

It does lol.

I think it's safe to say that with every new Fire Emblem game that comes out, the protagonist is going to be in smash.

If Nintendo pushed for Byleth for marketing purposes even before the game came out, then that seals the deal for me that this will be the case.

 

[Ivander]

the only correct additional FE choice is oliver

nvm too op
/s

No, you're right. After the recent FEH update, he's way too op to be in Smash.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

 

[Lionfranky]

Gotta love Master Chief out of all the characters is now considered a safe pick. We've come far away from pipe dream.

 

[SharkLord]

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What in the world?

It's kinda hard to pin down Reimu's age because the Touhou timeline progresses in real time. Assuming she's 10 in EoSD, the beginning of the Windows era, she'd be 27 by the time of WBaWC, the most recent game so far.

There's also the fact that she drinks a lot and has canonically killed someone, so if she's still in her teens... Yeah...

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler

Edelgard's actions are apalling.

Sure her goal is ultimately good, but all the things she does to accomplish them put her straight in villain category.

The path to Hell is paved with good intentions, except Edelgard goes a bit beyond that.

There's a reason every other path has you kill her. She's a gigantic problem and a threat to all of Fodlan.

Spoiler

I will say that she has done some wrong stuff. She's not perfect.

But you have to consider that, Rhea and the church are horrible. (They banned multiple books, and banned surgery and the printing press.)

If you betray Rhea, than each student will give their reason on hating the church, and they are quite valid.

And at the end of Crimson Flower, they permanently kill TWSITD, according to the lore.

Plus, I think TWSITD shares a lot of responsibility for the horrible acts committed in Three Houses, so that is something to note. It is not like Edelgard can shake Thales's head and tell him to stop.

I'm not perfect with this, because it has been a long while since I have played Three Houses.

There's also the fact that she drinks a lot and has canonically killed someone, so if she's still in her teens... Yeah...

She's going to canonically kill her second person in her reveal trailer. You know who.

 

[Gitaroo]

I acknowledge how this is a shallow thought, but I really hope we get one more character that's not a serious swordsman by the end of this pass. I swear, every swordsman (I think besides Meta Knight) just has that same "I'm very serious about slicing" look on their face.

Gimmie a goofy swordsman with a big ol' smile on their face!

Spoiler

You're so right excellent idea

 

[TheTuninator]

Putting aside how unlikely KOS-MOS is, the 5chan leak is also incompatible with the Voice Icon theory unless Crash comes with Coco as an alt.

Aha, not necessarily, actually! It'd be very fringe (and to be clear, I don't believe the "leak"), but the most recent Touhou fighter featured a tag-team mechanic, and Touhou doesn't actually have one protagonist. It has two, Reimu and Marisa, who appears as playable in virtually every game Reimu appears as playable and is always present with Reimu in the official print works. Like I said, it'd be very fringe, but given that the most recent Touhou fighter featured a tag mechanic, it's within the realm of possibility that Marisa could appear along with Reimu as a tag fighter.

 

[Shroob]

Gotta love Master Chief out of all the characters is now considered a safe pick. We've come far away from pipe dream.

I wouldn't say he's 'safe' for this pass at the very least, if we got a 3rd I'd be all in on Chief, but it really does show how crazy this has gotten. Smash's reach has reached farther than we could have realistically ever imagined.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Spoiler

You're so right excellent idea

YES that's what I mean

 

[MooMew64]

Really, the only real option for a Fire Emblem villain is the Black Knight.

In the first CYL Poll, he was the only villain to break the top 100. There's a reason why he's an AT now.

I guess you could count Edelgard as a villain if you want to. I wouldn't argue with that.

Spoiler: FE Spoilers

NGL I played Edelgard's route first, and by the time I finished it, I walked away feeling like I pretty much played the villain route, lol.

Like...It's really hard to not see Edelgard as a villain after you see what happens on Blue Lions. Heck, siding with her is really hard: Killing Claude, Flayn, and Seteth legit made me feel horrible. I know you can spare them, but I didn't know that at the time and killed them on my playthrough.

I don't wanna start a huge debate or anything, but these are just some quick thoughts I have on Edelgard.

Also, as a huge Bernadetta fan...I will never forgive what Edelgard does to her on non Black Eagles playthroughs if you don't recruit Bernie.

Anyways, on a Smash note, I wanna see a Yuffie costume next week. Gimme the girl with the best FF7 theme.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

It does lol.

I think it's safe to say that with every new Fire Emblem game that comes out, the protagonist is going to be in smash.

If Nintendo pushed for Byleth for marketing purposes even before the game came out, then that seals the deal for me that this will be the case.

Well, I don't honestly think the next one will, unless we get a remake next and then it takes another 3 years for the next game to come out. The way I figure it, the next non-remake FE game will either be in 2022 (three years after TH) or 2024-25 (three years after a potential 2021-22 remake). 2022 would be too late and beyond that we're talking about Smash 6, which could be handled far differently than this one. There might not be room for more FE in that game.

 

[Shroob]

It's still funny to me how much of Sephiroth's trailer feels almost 1:1 with Advent Children of all things.

Cloud, and Sephiroth, feel like some of the only characters to have stuff in game based on movies of all things.

 

[Lamperouge]

pic.twitter.com/5WhstCcGqd

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) December 14, 2020

POTD

Big Swords

Amazing reference to the "third phase" of Sephiroth's boss battle with the scripted Omnislash.

 

[Idon]

Given what they did to Byleth's moveset, I think I would've preferred Edelgard instead.

 

[MooMew64]

pic.twitter.com/5WhstCcGqd

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) December 14, 2020

POTD

Big Swords

As a huge FF7 nerd.

Spoiler

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee IT'S THE FINAL FIGHT PHASE AAAAA SAKURAI YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY BRILLAINT THIS IS AN AMAZING REFERENCE

It's a pretty cool pic.

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler: FE Spoilers

NGL I played Edelgard's route first, and by the time I finished it, I walked away feeling like I pretty much played the villain route, lol.

Like...It's really hard to not see Edelgard as a villain after you see what happens on Blue Lions. Heck, siding with her is really hard: Killing Claude, Flayn, and Seteth legit made me feel horrible. I know you can spare them, but I didn't know that at the time and killed them on my playthrough.

I don't wanna start a huge debate or anything, but these are just some quick thoughts I have on Edelgard.

Also, as a huge Bernadetta fan...I will never forgive what Edelgard does to her on non Black Eagles playthroughs if you don't recruit Bernie.

Spoiler

You can spare Claude. Also, you can spare Flayn and Seteth if you defeat them with Byleth.

Also, that Bernadetta Sanders moment was weird. I don't know why they decided to do that. I believe she isn't on the fire, but still a strange moment. In Crimson Flower, that is the only route that she actually gets out of her room in, so she does like Edelgard.

Edit: No one will see this edit, but notice how my eyes betrayed me, and I misread something. Shocker.

pic.twitter.com/5WhstCcGqd

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) December 14, 2020

POTD

Big Swords

I really want to play Sephiroth so bad. His long sword looks so fun to use.

 

[extremeturkey]

If they added Cadence as one of the GOOD mii costumes, she would be the first mii I'm willing to actually pay money for.

 

[Megadoomer]

If they added Cadence as one of the GOOD mii costumes, she would be the first mii I'm willing to actually pay money for.

If Cadence was one of the Mii costumes that came with a bonus music track, which one should they go with? (I've only played a bit of Crypt of the Necrodancer - I had a tough time figuring out the rhythm mechanics)

 

[Deleted member]

Given what they did to Byleth's moveset, I think I would've preferred Edelgard instead.

I thought you were a devoted Dimitri fan. Dimitri is quite cool, I will say.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Spoiler

You can spare Claude. Also, you can spare Flayn and Seteth if you defeat them with Byleth.

Also, that Bernadetta Sanders moment was weird. I don't know why they decided to do that. I believe she isn't on the fire, but still a strange moment. In Crimson Flower, that is the only route that she actually gets out of her room in, so she does like Edelgard.

I really want to play Sephiroth so bad. His long sword looks so fun to use.

Spoiler

The Bernadetta leaving her room thing is probably more because it's the only route where her father is properly dealt with, so she doesn't feel the pressure of his existence as much, but yeah.

 

[SharkLord]

Aha, not necessarily, actually! It'd be very fringe (and to be clear, I don't believe the "leak"), but the most recent Touhou fighter featured a tag-team mechanic, and Touhou doesn't actually have one protagonist. It has two, Reimu and Marisa, who appears as playable in virtually every game Reimu appears as playable and is always present with Reimu in the official print works. Like I said, it'd be very fringe, but given that the most recent Touhou fighter featured a tag mechanic, it's within the realm of plausibility that Marisa could appear along with Reimu as a tag fighter.

Adding on to this, whenever there's a tag-team feature, Reimu tends to get paired up with Yukari. Yukari is a mysterious, powerful old youkai who is essentially Reimu's employer. She prefers to sit back and send out other people to do her bidding rather than resolving things hands-on, but if she ever goes to fight you personally, you're screwed.
She has the ability to manipulate boundaries; SInce everything is defined by boundaries, she is essentially manipulating reality itself. Usually, she just uses it to open portals, but she could hypothetically, say, remove the boundaries of every cell wall in your body and turn you into a puddle of goop, among other things. She also weakened the boundary between life and death so spirits from the Netherword could come and visit.

Also, she does this:

Welcome to Touhou

 

[Kokiden]

Well, I don't honestly think the next one will, unless we get a remake next and then it takes another 3 years for the next game to come out. The way I figure it, the next non-remake FE game will either be in 2022 (three years after TH) or 2024-25 (three years after a potential 2021-22 remake). 2022 would be too late and beyond that we're talking about Smash 6, which could be handled far differently than this one. There might not be room for more FE in that game.

It could happen via DLC for smash 6 (if that's a thing then).

I've been caught off guard with FE DLC enough times to expect it lol.

pic.twitter.com/5WhstCcGqd

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) December 14, 2020

POTD

Big Swords

Now that's just cool.

Lol going through the comments and talk about music comes up.

Imagine they don't even give us One Winged Angel... didn't Joker's trailer feature Last Surprise, but that track isn't even in the game?

~Sparing a Tip~ #SmashBros #SuperSmashBrosUltimate #SSBU pic.twitter.com/U09gx7n3hN

— Stoic Seraphim (@Stoic_Miiverse) December 13, 2020

Ok now that's just adorable.

 

[Shroob]

If Cadence was one of the Mii costumes that came with a bonus music track, which one should they go with? (I've only played a bit of Crypt of the Necrodancer - I had a tough time figuring out the rhythm mechanics)

Probably the title theme

Spoiler

Lobby's good too

Spoiler

King Konga is also my favorite boss track

Spoiler

 

[Lamperouge]

I thought you were a devoted Dimitri fan. Dimitri is quite cool, I will say.

I think he's just trying to emphasize how dissatisfied he is with Byleth's implementation by suggesting the worst house leader be playable instead.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, I have to get Final Fantasy VII.

I think he's just trying to emphasize how dissatisfied he is with Byleth's implementation by suggesting the worst house leader be playable instead.

Yes, I see the point now.

Spoiler

The Bernadetta leaving her room thing is probably more because it's the only route where her father is properly dealt with, so she doesn't feel the pressure of his existence as much, but yeah.

Spoiler

You know what really bugs me about Crimson Flower? It is my favorite route, but it is wasted potential. They throw in these cool characters that just die casually off-screen. And there are all of these cool moments that the game never shows to you. I mean why couldn't we see Edelgard and the gang destroy TWSITD, and Bernadetta's father?

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

It could happen via DLC for smash 6 (if that's a thing then).

I've been caught off guard with FE DLC enough times to expect it lol.

For sure. I'm just saying there's a decent chance the next game won't have good timing on its side, that's all. The game after that, you're probably right.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Spoiler

I will say that she has done some wrong stuff. She's not perfect.

But you have to consider that, Rhea and the church are horrible. (They banned multiple books, and banned surgery and the printing press.)

If you betray Rhea, than each student will give their reason on hating the church, and they are quite valid.

And at the end of Crimson Flower, they permanently kill TWSITD, according to the lore.

Plus, I think TWSITD shares a lot of responsibility for the horrible acts committed in Three Houses, so that is something to note. It is not like Edelgard can shake Thales's head and tell him to stop.

I'm not perfect with this, because it has been a long while since I have played Three Houses.

Spoiler

Rhea being a villain doesn't magically make it okay for Edelgard to do terrible things.

TWSITD are also bad, but you know what? Edelgard willingly works with them for years. Even after she sees all the terrible things they do. Oh hey, she's appalled that TWSITD are turning people in to monsters! Oh but not enough to stop her from getting their help.

And well yes. Edelgard has the power to NOT do bad things. She can't magically change Thales, but she can stop working with him and STOP COMMITING AND EXCUSING ATTROCITIES AND NOT STARTING CONTINENTAL WAR. Those are choices SHE made. You can't blame them on TWSITD. Just like you can't blame all of Rhea's crimes on the people who killed her race.

The thing that really gets me is that Edelgard never has a humbling moment. Dimitri and Rhea, two other characters who do awful things, see the light in some paths. They change and acknowledge they were wrong. Edelgard doesn't care about right and wrong. She cares about getting her revenge on the system that screwed her over and justifies it by saying she's helping the common man.

Yeah sure, I bet the common man is real happy for the continental war that spanned five years. I bet the common man is real happy that several villages got their citizens turned into monsters. I'm sure the common man is happy that their main religion has been attacked and effectively destroyed.

Not to mention the things she does to Bernie if you don't recruit her and the fact that Petra is essentially a prisoner.

I have no sympathy for TH Edelgard. She's had terrible things happen to her, but she never had the strength to move past them. She is an embodiment of "the ends justify the means," and I hate that the game even implies that's okay.

FEH Edelgard is the only version I somewhat like, purely because her seeing other characters from other games is making her reconsider her actions.

You got me ranting. I do not regret my words here.

 

[Momotsuki]

If we absolutely had to have a Three Houses rep I think Edelgard was the ideal choice. What's done is done now though. So long as it remains water under the bridge for this pass, I see no reason to remain upset.

 

[Megadoomer]

Imagine they don't even give us One Winged Angel... didn't Joker's trailer feature Last Surprise, but that track isn't even in the game?

Last Surprise was in the game, but you're right that the song from Joker's trailer (Life Will Change) didn't make it in. Which is a shame, because that song is great for pumping you up before a boss fight.

Okay, I have to get Final Fantasy VII.

I beat it for the first time on the Switch, and while I was worried that it couldn't possibly live up to the hype (it did live up to the hype), it managed to become one of my favourite RPGs, up there with Final Fantasy 6, Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, the Mass Effect games, and Persona 5.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If Cadence was one of the Mii costumes that came with a bonus music track, which one should they go with? (I've only played a bit of Crypt of the Necrodancer - I had a tough time figuring out the rhythm mechanics)

I'd be fine with just Disco Descent.