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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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A troubling foe, and yet, I can't resist! Overcome with an unearned hubris, I'll rise to the task~

Good evening! As of... let's see... December 13th 2020, this is my hard prediction, fueled by confirmation bias and nothing else. I'm an irrational knobgoblin, and who would I be to be better than that? No, of course not. This is my time to go at it, make the fool out of myself~

Now, I'm adhering pretty strongly to the 5chan leak here - almost seems stupid of me. It probably is. Surely out of so many tommyrot text leaks, one might hit the nail on the head with a single fighter, even in regards to a pick like Sephiroth! Indeed, the leak has not yet proven itself to be more than a fluke. It has not done so in the slightest.

And so I tried to seperate the leak itself, from the idea of the latter half of the pass looking like this... and the more I thought about it, the more sense I found it to make. I'm going to go over these three and what I'm thinking about them, if you'll let me... You can't stop me~!

KOS-MOS

I know KOS-MOS is a bit divisive around these parts, but hear me out. And then make fun of me, if you'd like. Whether Xenosaga is particularly relevant or not... probably doesn't matter as much as whether KOS-MOS herself is a character that those in charge think people will buy. On that front, I think there's just a little more merit than she's given credit for. KOS-MOS is demonstrably a marketable character, idependently so of Xenosaga. I was actually surprised just how much material involving her seemed to exist. I think KOS-MOS is a recognizable enough face to at the very least make sense as an oncoming fighter.

There's also the more intangible aspect that is purely percieved on my part: those upstairs really just seem to love her to bits, that lot. Monolith in particular seems to hold her in very high regard, perhaps the closest thing the studio has to a mascot of sorts. While it may be mostly internal, she has a sort of clout few other characters have, not that I think any character particularly needs it. And, surely, those working on this game will have a very easy time getting in touch with those that own KOS-MOS, Bandai Na- wait a minute...

All waters aside, I think these two aspects of her situation come together to put her in a much better spot than people realize. I would compare her to Bayonetta in the sense of almost being a sort of honorary first-party, if you'll entertain that.

Crash

Now, Crash... Crash is Crash. He's probably the single most requested fighter in general as it currently stands, and I think he's had the momentum long enough for that to have mattered when these decisions were made. It seemed as though this muppet had all the cards back in October, and even three days ago, he was seen as in the running.

I fail to see why he's any less prominent than before, especially since as per the timeline I will present soon enough, he'd likely be unveiled at the best time to do so with a crowd-pleaser like this. His odds have looked quite strong for about as long as this pass has been ongoing, to the point where I have precious little to add, speaking as somebody not particularly invested in his chances. You know where we do have a conflict of interest, though...?

Reimu

I'm going to keep it real here. I want Reimu in Smash. A lot. Has this clouded my judgement on the matter when it comes to the 5chan leak? You better believe it. But for the sake of this thought exercise, I'm happy to own that, and truck on anyway.

To say Reimu is "popular in Japan" would be, uh... rather modest. She's a downright unrivalled indie icon, sat atop an empire of official work and oceans, oceans of fan content. There is no sidestepping her prominence. A solid chunk of those on the roster would cower in fear in her shadow.

The main thing people bring up to respond to this is that she's not known overseas. Once upon a time this was very true. However seeing as people here have been, uh, talking about her, clearly it's not quite the case. Indeed, thanks to Ronald McDonald the power of the internet, Touhou has been successful in gaining an impressive western following, the tireless efforts of fans allowing this to be the case long before official work was even distributed there. Perhaps to us she's "niche" but you could say the same about plenty of fighters in Smash. She's present here, and a truly unstoppable force in the birthplace of Smash Bros. A character like this is absolutely pass-finishing material, as I'd like to present in a moment, able to flaunt a kind of cult following we've seen of Mr. Bogard.

Timeline

When I was ordering these three, I had reasons for my placements. I'm going to present a somewhat rough timeline for this scenario and then explain myself best I can.

KOS-MOS - March 2021
Crash - Summer 2021
Reimu - Winter 2021

There's been a bit of buzz about the prospect of a March reveal for Challenger 9, and I think it largely checks out. It's a sensible gap of time with the good ol' amiibo indicator. I don't feel like there's a whole lot I'd need to say for why I feel this way. KOS-MOS being where she is has to do with this simply being where she ended up after thinking about where Crash and Reimu oughta go.

Crash is where he is for two reasons. First off, if he's in this pass and they've held off so long, I would say that it points to an E3 (or E3-adjacent, love ya COVID) reveal. There's hardly a better time and place to bring out the show-stopper, which I'd imagine most would consider Crash to be. I also can't imagine KOS-MOS and Reimu being back-to-back. Crash not only fits into the best time to reveal him (IMO), but also neatly breaks up two fighters with somewhat similar appeal.

Ending the pass, and just in time for that deadline would be Reimu. The resolution following Sephiroth's rising action, and - hmm... y'know what, I'm not giving anyone that line. Anyway, such a resolution is embodied quite nicely with a fighter who can feel simultaneously a bit outlandish, and yet also have the appeal to back it up. I think that's Reimu, and I think this is when she'll present herself. She'll bring ire to some, confusion to others, and something real special to many. And with that, our golden Fighters Pass would draw to a close. Would it be the end? I have no idea; my intuition draws a blank.

Before signing off here, I'd note that I put more than a bit of work into the little mock-up you see before you. I wanted to make it stand out a bit from most templates. I hope it's a pleasure to see. The renders of KOS-MOS and Reimu used for it were made by newt and GGalactigal respecitively.
Digging on the 5chan leak.

Honestly, I feel like Reimu is the likeliest out of the others you mentioned, because of your reasons. Good post!
 
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N3ON

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What makes King Boo or Ganon smaller than Andross?
I won't dispute Ganon, I just wasn't counting him because we already have that character, just not in that form. It'd be like getting Tetra.

Otherwise, same thing that has people saying Medusa or Giygas are bigger than Fawful. The stature that comes with being a primary antagonist versus the villain of a side spin-off.

Is it correct? Depends how you're measuring it. But what I will say is by your measurements, Diglett is bigger than Link.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Over in the Sephiroth thread, a few of us have come to the conclusion that he is going to be slow to play unfortunately.

Of course, it's all speculation and we don't know how he's going to play out until the presentation on Friday (my time), but going by the trailer, it's looking to be the case.

I'd love it if he were mobile and feels smooth to control, but I doubt it.
There isn't really anything to suggest it though. The only movement actions we've seen from him are his walk, jump, and dodge roll. His jump seems to be as quick as his dodge roll, which probably means his air speed is decent. Everything else is an unknown.

EDIT: Or...maybe it's half the speed? It's really not enough to tell I think.
 
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Kokiden

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Diglett is bigger than Link.
This just made me laugh harder than I actually should lmao.

Yeah, it just doesn't seem plausible that he'd have both gonzo range and incredible speed combined with the inevitably excellent hitting power and what will be (presumably) middling to heavy weight - what weakness would he even have at that point?
I'd just rather he not be Ganondorf levels slow.

Laggy characters are just not fun to use (for me anyway) no matter how powerful they are.

He's a hype character and him not being fun to play would be a downer due to his lack of mobility imo.

There isn't really anything to suggest it though. The only movement actions we've seen from him are his walk, jump, and dodge roll. His jump seems to be as quick as his dodge roll, which probably means his air speed is decent. Everything else is an unknown.

EDIT: Or...maybe it's half the speed? It's really not enough to tell I think.
Oh it's purely speculation at this point lol.

Just thinking about it in terms of balance, in addition to what we've seen, is all.
 
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CP6: Min Min
CP7: Steve
CP8: Sephiorth
CP9: Phoenix Wright
CP10: Reimu
CP11: Rillaboom

Your reaction?
 

SKX31

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Assuming Ganon got in he eouldnt be as heavy as Bowser given that's his trait being heaviest character since melee but the question is would Ganon be heavier than K. Rool, equal or less?
From a gameplay perspective I'd assume that, yes. I'm gonna guess here:

Ganon would very likely have a similar playstyle to K. Rool: mostly that the projectiles are nigh-central to establishing stage control and damage-racking, and his normals would likely have quite a bit of range thanks to the trident so he can continue to hold stage and secure early kills. The main difference would likely be that Ganon would probably be able to send his projectiles in multiple directions readily, while K. Rool has to rely on the Vacuum catching a cannonball / an opponent for him to be able to shoot in multiple directions. Ganon would likely not have Rool's Belly Armor - although Ganon might have another, perhaps weaker Armor mechanic so he doesn't get recklessly pummeled.

Another big difference would be that Ganon has his teleport - he'd likely have an easier time repositioning and taking advantage of a situation than K. Rool does. But that wouldn't neccessarily mean that Ganon's weight gets reduced to compensate for that. It'd likely be compensated by another weakness, like the teleport having somewhat limited range or what not.

Now I can't say this with 100 % certainty (Terry's heavier than Wario or Ridley, for example), but that's the thing with theorycrafting. I find it likely that Ganon would play a like to K. Rool, but with major differences.

Alright, here is my question.

How do you think Sephiroth will play?

I think he will have enormous range, but his downfall will be his slow speed and framedata.
Okay so guessing again:

Sephiroth strikes me as the kind of character who wants to discourage his opponents from staying away and instead in range of his Masamune, but not too close to comfort for him. The black orbs (which I'm guessing is Shadow Flare, could be wrong) seem to hover around the opponent they hit and explode automatically, so zoners would not be safe with that. Scintilla (his Counter / possibly Reflector) would probably add to the counter-zoning he has.

Reunion (his KH mode / comeback mechanic) might give him additional counter-zoning tools (his Kaboom, which I'm guessing is Black Materia or something like that, it looked different than Shadow Flare) as well as perhaps buffs to his other attacks. Thusly he's further encouraged to make his opponent dance to his tune.

I'm guessing that his speed won't be a huge weakness for him, even if we haven't seen his dash, If only because he won't rely on his speed that much anyway a la :ultlink: . I'd say that Masamune's lack of width and something else (probably what ALongWistfulSquiggle ALongWistfulSquiggle said re: angles, and him possibly being floaty and thus vurnerable to being juggled around in disadvantage) would be his primary weaknesses.

Masamune's lack of width could be a major problem since misses can be costly and that might make him vurnerable to characters that pancake or can just jump around the sword swings. Angles could be a major problem for similar reasons, and because it might make his disadvantage a bit wonky.

I could be off with this guesswork of course, but we'll have to see really.
 
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Kokiden

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You all talk about how terrible it'll be if Sephy is slow, as if Ganondorf isn't one of the most fun fighters to play as in this game.
All boils down to personal preference I reckon.

See, Ganondorf would be a nightmare for me.

I like my characters speedy and nifty, yet my favourite characters aren't exactly nimble but I still stick to them because I like them so much lol.

Double edged sword there for me.

At the moment, I'm just wondering if they're going to troll us all by making his final smash actually 2 minutes lol. 30 seconds? 10?
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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The black orbs (which I'm guessing is Shadow Flare, could be wrong) seem to hover around the opponent they hit and explode automatically, so zoners would not be safe with that.
TFW zoners keep getting really good anti-zoning tools but grapplers are stuck with weird counters if they get anything at all.

he likely isnt going to say anything if it's a hard FFVII PSX reference
Or if he does, he won't say "supernova" because he doesn't have an English voice actor.
 

Guynamednelson

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Or if he does, he won't say "supernova" because he doesn't have an English voice actor.
"Supanoba"

And since Sakurai would've played the Japanese version, said Supernova won't even be long enough for you to make a sandwich.
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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I just edited the second one to King Boo. But Black Knight is like the FE villain for a lot of players.
Nah bruh, if we get a FE villain one day it better be Hardin:


Absolutely, without question, easily one of the very best CHARACTERS in FE canon. Man is straight tragic so you understand his pain that led him to his dark power but you end up seeing the monster inside instead of the monster he’s become.
 

Will

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Nah bruh, if we get a FE villain one day it better be Hardin:


Absolutely, without question, easily one of the very best CHARACTERS in FE canon. Man is straight tragic so you understand his pain that led him to his dark power but you end up seeing the monster inside instead of the monster he’s become.
Come on NSG, you're gonna give me Gharnef's mind controlled tragic villain but not the man who made him the tragic villain?
 

SpectreJordan

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Steve was for the kids who grew up gaming in the 2010s. Sephiroth is for the kids who grew up gaming in the ‘90s. Come on Sakurai/Nintendo, give those who grew up gaming in the ‘00s something just as huge next.
 

Kokiden

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Okay so guessing again:

Sephiroth strikes me as the kind of character who wants to discourage his opponents from staying away and instead in range of his Masamune, but not too close to comfort for him. The black orbs (which I'm guessing is Shadow Flare, could be wrong) seem to hover around the opponent they hit and explode automatically, so zoners would not be safe with that. Scintilla (his Counter / possibly Reflector) would probably add to the counter-zoning he has.

Reunion (his KH mode / comeback mechanic) might give him additional counter-zoning tools (his Kaboom, which I'm guessing is Black Materia or something like that, it looked different than Shadow Flare) as well as perhaps buffs to his other attacks. Thusly he's further encouraged to make his opponent dance to his tune.

I'm guessing that his speed won't be a huge weakness for him, even if we haven't seen his dash, If only because he won't rely on his speed that much anyway a la :ultlink: . I'd say that Masamune's lack of width and something else (probably what ALongWistfulSquiggle ALongWistfulSquiggle said re: angles, and him possibly being floaty and thus vurnerable to being juggled around in disadvantage) would be his primary weaknesses.

Masamune's lack of width could be a major problem since misses can be costly and that might make him vurnerable to characters that pancake or can just jump around the sword swings. Angles could be a major problem for similar reasons, and because it might make his disadvantage a bit wonky.

I could be off with this guesswork of course, but we'll have to see really.
Ok I really like this take. I'd take angle problems, over speed issues, any day of the week.

I also just realised something... will this be the first time ever we're going to hear Sephiroth wailing as he's sent flying into the horizon?! Or just yelling in general as he's sent flying into the blast zone?!
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Ok I really like this take. I'd take angle problems, over speed issues, any day of the week.

I also just realised something... will this be the first time ever we're going to hear Sephiroth wailing as he's sent flying into the horizon?! Or just yelling in general as he's sent flying into the blast zone?!
He's pretty subdued, so I'd imagine he'd just grunt or say a simple phrase upon hit/death. His star K.O. might be a shout though.

What in the world?
I was going to ask you how old you thought she was, but considering most characters that look like this are actually 1000+, she's probably the only major childlike character that is actually a child. lol
 
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I was going to ask you how old you thought she was, but considering most characters that look like this are actually 1000+, she's probably the only major childlike character that is actually a child. lol
I thought she was like 16-18.
 

RileyXY1

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Putting aside how unlikely KOS-MOS is, the 5chan leak is also incompatible with the Voice Icon theory unless Crash comes with Coco as an alt.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Let's just say the world of Touhou is... something.

Looks pretty but everything out there is probably trying to attack you is basically the motto of Gensokyo.
And also, basically everyone is dumb as a brick. Like, Marisa fights you because she thinks the demons are going to eat people until they explode. And of course, the eating of people was not the sticking point for her, it was the demons exploding.

I swear, why is there this trend to take characters that look 10, and make them 1000+ years old? ...
Sometimes it's because they think it's funny, other times it's because Japan is addicted to cute, and other times it's because...uh...you know...
 

Megadoomer

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I don't know much about Fire Emblem, so if we get a villain, my vote is for Cervantes.



Then again, maybe he'd be too overpowered, since his mustache (according to science) makes him invincible.

Alternatively, maybe one of the villains from Three Houses, who I won't be specifically naming for spoiler-related reasons? (I've only played one route, but I assume that the main villains of each route will be spoiler-heavy) Look, I've only played Awakening, Three Houses, and bits of Fates and the first game - I don't have much to go on here.
 
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Faso115

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Gen 8 is the one i think has a fair chance of having the Legendary pokemon over the starters.

For one they aren't a world ending cosmic entity of a paralel dimension, they are just big wolves.
 
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uh...you know...
Yeah... I know...
😐
Alternatively, maybe one of the villains from Three Houses, who I won't be specifically naming for spoiler-related reasons? (I've only played one route, but I assume that the main villains of each route will be spoiler-heavy) Look, I've only played Awakening, Three Houses, and bits of Fates and the first game - I don't have much to go on here.
Three Houses was pretty weak in villains. I think they nailed it in terms of rivalries (Edelgard vs Dimitri, Rhea, and Claude is fantastic), but TWISTD were these underground villains that were hyped up in the first part, and then you get to the time-skip... And you only get to kill them in two out of four routes, and Thales just goes down like a sardine out of water. You don't even see them much in time-skip.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Gen 8 is the one i think has a fair chance of having the Legendary pokemon over the starters.

For one they aren't a world ending cosmic entity of a paralel dimension, they are just big wolves.
The issue with Zacian and Zamazenta is that they're competing with the starter Pokémon. The starters are with you for the entire journey, while the doggos show up at the beginning, the end, and that's it. They are by far the least important box legendaries.

EDIT: Well, maybe not actually. I don't remember Ho-oh or Lugia doing anything.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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Really, the only real option for a Fire Emblem villain is the Black Knight.

In the first CYL Poll, he was the only villain to break the top 100. There's a reason why he's an AT now.

I guess you could count Edelgard as a villain if you want to. I wouldn't argue with that. :troll:
 
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