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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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SMAASH! Puppy

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Why does it look like he can easily cut his elbow from that? It is just an interesting design. I haven't played Xenoblade Chronicles 2, don't @ me.
@ShinyLegendary :troll:

Anyway, I was incorrect before. It's actually called the Sword Tonfa. It's essentially a fusion of two weapons that realistically should never ever be combined in order to create something that's kinda cool.

EDIT: And I misspelled tonfa, and this is what a tonfa looks like.
1607910162501.png


WAIT, what is that Ferris wheel thing on his sword?
That would be the Finger Puncturer 9000: A flair that's there solely to look cool but would be quite dangerous in reality. :p
 
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Will

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By that logic Birdo is bigger than Kirby or Samus.

I suppose it could be seen that way, but that's not how anyone is actually looking at it.
That's not what I mean, Birdo isn't the main villain of any given Mario game obviously, but King Boo and Ganon are.

And the sales numbers of the games they're from topple Andross or Marx, they are objectively bigger, but people pass them over because we already have a Mario and Zelda villain in the game. I'm just giving the actual answer to the actual premise of the question. If they wanted an unused franchise, then it should've been said beforehand.
 

N3ON

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That's not what I mean, Birdo isn't the main villain of any given Mario game obviously, but King Boo and Ganon are.

And the sales numbers of the games they're from topple Andross or Marx, they are objectively bigger, but people pass them over because we already have a Mario and Zelda villain in the game. I'm just giving the actual answer to the actual premise of the question. If they wanted an unused franchise, then it should've been said beforehand.
It doesn't change the logic of it, I'm just applying it to all characters instead of villains specifically.

If you're just looking at sales numbers than Diglett is bigger than Link.
 

Will

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What is the difference between Ganon and Ganondorf? Help me, gamers.
ganon is the pig monster, but not the really big one, just the fat one

It doesn't change the logic of it, I'm just applying it to all characters instead of villains specifically.

If you're just looking at sales numbers than Diglett is bigger than Link.
What makes King Boo or Ganon smaller than Andross?
 

Michael the Spikester

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Assuming Ganon got in he wouldn't be as heavy as Bowser given that's his trait being heaviest character since melee but the question is would Ganon be heavier than K. Rool, equal or less?
 
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Will

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I know. I am talking about powers, lore, etc..
Ganon is the transformation of Ganondorf in the downfall timeline (ALTTP, ALBW, LoZ1+2) after he obtains the full Triforce. He uses a lot more magic in this form, so **** like flaming bats or wacky energy balls and the like. He also has a trident instead of the beeg sword.
 
D

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Alright, here is my question.

How do you think Sephiroth will play?

I think he will have enormous range, but his downfall will be his slow speed and framedata.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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What is the difference between Ganon and Ganondorf? Help me, gamers.
They are different manifestations of the same character like the different Links and Zeldas. Ganon is the beastly pig form that is heavily magic power based, and Ganondorf is the Gerudo who is a bit more of a schemer.
 

Hydreigonfan01

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IMO the most iconic Nintendo villain that isn't playable yet is between the Black Knight or King Boo.
 
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Dalek_Kolt

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So here's a question prompted by all the villain talk.

Smash now has Bowser, Jr., The Koopalings, King K. Rool, Ganondorf, Ridley, Dark Samus and Wolf in Smash.

(Smash also has Meta Knight, King Dedede and Mewtwo but I am not counting them as villains.)

Who is the biggest Nintendo owned villain that isn't playable in Smash?
Answering with the usual response.

Other than Pig Ganon, I'd say probably say Skull Kid since people still talk about the coolness of Majora's Mask, Giovanni or Jessie/James since Team Rocket's legacy is never truly going to die, Samurai Goroh since he's one of the last major characters from the Melee intro not playable yet in Smash and has been an AT since, and Waluigi for similar AT-related reasons.

There's also Andross and Mother Brain, but there's a whole debate on whether they could even be realized as fighters.
 
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Alright, here is my question.

How do you think Sephiroth will play?

I think he will have enormous range, but his downfall will be his slow speed and framedata.
I think limited angles are going to be a major weakness. From what we've seen, his aerials only have hitboxes at 90 degree angles. He's probably going to want to stay grounded so he can have more options, since that seems to be the only way he can touch people at a diagonal.
 
D

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I just edited the second one to King Boo. But Black Knight is like the FE villain for a lot of players.
But Team Rocket (Jesse and James) and Ganon are from two franchises that are much more massive than Fire Emblem.
 
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Momotsuki

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A troubling foe, and yet, I can't resist! Overcome with an unearned hubris, I'll rise to the task~

Good evening! As of... let's see... December 13th 2020, this is my hard prediction, fueled by confirmation bias and nothing else. I'm an irrational knobgoblin, and who would I be to be better than that? No, of course not. This is my time to go at it, make the fool out of myself~

Now, I'm adhering pretty strongly to the 5chan leak here - almost seems stupid of me. It probably is. Surely out of so many tommyrot text leaks, one might hit the nail on the head with a single fighter, even in regards to a pick like Sephiroth! Indeed, the leak has not yet proven itself to be more than a fluke. It has not done so in the slightest.

And so I tried to seperate the leak itself, from the idea of the latter half of the pass looking like this... and the more I thought about it, the more sense I found it to make. I'm going to go over these three and what I'm thinking about them, if you'll let me... You can't stop me~!

KOS-MOS

I know KOS-MOS is a bit divisive around these parts, but hear me out. And then make fun of me, if you'd like. Whether Xenosaga is particularly relevant or not... probably doesn't matter as much as whether KOS-MOS herself is a character that those in charge think people will buy. On that front, I think there's just a little more merit than she's given credit for. KOS-MOS is demonstrably a marketable character, idependently so of Xenosaga. I was actually surprised just how much material involving her seemed to exist. I think KOS-MOS is a recognizable enough face to at the very least make sense as an oncoming fighter.

There's also the more intangible aspect that is purely percieved on my part: those upstairs really just seem to love her to bits, that lot. Monolith in particular seems to hold her in very high regard, perhaps the closest thing the studio has to a mascot of sorts. While it may be mostly internal, she has a sort of clout few other characters have, not that I think any character particularly needs it. And, surely, those working on this game will have a very easy time getting in touch with those that own KOS-MOS, Bandai Na- wait a minute...

All waters aside, I think these two aspects of her situation come together to put her in a much better spot than people realize. I would compare her to Bayonetta in the sense of almost being a sort of honorary first-party, if you'll entertain that.

Crash

Now, Crash... Crash is Crash. He's probably the single most requested fighter in general as it currently stands, and I think he's had the momentum long enough for that to have mattered when these decisions were made. It seemed as though this muppet had all the cards back in October, and even three days ago, he was seen as in the running.

I fail to see why he's any less prominent than before, especially since as per the timeline I will present soon enough, he'd likely be unveiled at the best time to do so with a crowd-pleaser like this. His odds have looked quite strong for about as long as this pass has been ongoing, to the point where I have precious little to add, speaking as somebody not particularly invested in his chances. You know where we do have a conflict of interest, though...?

Reimu

I'm going to keep it real here. I want Reimu in Smash. A lot. Has this clouded my judgement on the matter when it comes to the 5chan leak? You better believe it. But for the sake of this thought exercise, I'm happy to own that, and truck on anyway.

To say Reimu is "popular in Japan" would be, uh... rather modest. She's a downright unrivalled indie icon, sat atop an empire of official work and oceans, oceans of fan content. There is no sidestepping her prominence. A solid chunk of those on the roster would cower in fear in her shadow.

The main thing people bring up to respond to this is that she's not known overseas. Once upon a time this was very true. However seeing as people here have been, uh, talking about her, clearly it's not quite the case. Indeed, thanks to Ronald McDonald the power of the internet, Touhou has been successful in gaining an impressive western following, the tireless efforts of fans allowing this to be the case long before official work was even distributed there. Perhaps to us she's "niche" but you could say the same about plenty of fighters in Smash. She's present here, and a truly unstoppable force in the birthplace of Smash Bros. A character like this is absolutely pass-finishing material, as I'd like to present in a moment, able to flaunt a kind of cult following we've seen of Mr. Bogard.

Timeline

When I was ordering these three, I had reasons for my placements. I'm going to present a somewhat rough timeline for this scenario and then explain myself best I can.

KOS-MOS - March 2021
Crash - Summer 2021
Reimu - Winter 2021

There's been a bit of buzz about the prospect of a March reveal for Challenger 9, and I think it largely checks out. It's a sensible gap of time with the good ol' amiibo indicator. I don't feel like there's a whole lot I'd need to say for why I feel this way. KOS-MOS being where she is has to do with this simply being where she ended up after thinking about where Crash and Reimu oughta go.

Crash is where he is for two reasons. First off, if he's in this pass and they've held off so long, I would say that it points to an E3 (or E3-adjacent, love ya COVID) reveal. There's hardly a better time and place to bring out the show-stopper, which I'd imagine most would consider Crash to be. I also can't imagine KOS-MOS and Reimu being back-to-back. Crash not only fits into the best time to reveal him (IMO), but also neatly breaks up two fighters with somewhat similar appeal.

Ending the pass, and just in time for that deadline would be Reimu. The resolution following Sephiroth's rising action, and - hmm... y'know what, I'm not giving anyone that line. Anyway, such a resolution is embodied quite nicely with a fighter who can feel simultaneously a bit outlandish, and yet also have the appeal to back it up. I think that's Reimu, and I think this is when she'll present herself. She'll bring ire to some, confusion to others, and something real special to many. And with that, our golden Fighters Pass would draw to a close. Would it be the end? I have no idea; my intuition draws a blank.

Before signing off here, I'd note that I put more than a bit of work into the little mock-up you see before you. I wanted to make it stand out a bit from most templates. I hope it's a pleasure to see. The renders of KOS-MOS and Reimu used for it were made by newt and GGalactigal respecitively.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Thanks, it's been a while since I played so I didn't remember.
He's an incredibly minor character who gets deleted halfway through so it makes sense you'd forget about him.

Framedata? Yes.
Speed? No. Mans is quick as **** in lore, and he'll probably be Cloud's speed.
Perhaps, though since we haven't really seen his dash, he kind of gives me the impression of someone who doesn't take their opponents seriously enough to move quickly.
 

TheTuninator

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IMO the most iconic Nintendo villain that isn't playable yet is between the Black Knight or King Boo.
I love FE and PoR/RD, but Black Knight/Grima definitely aren't iconic. PoR/RD were so niche that they almost killed the series, and Grima wasn't the draw of Awakening.
 

Arcanir

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So here's a question prompted by all the villain talk.

Smash now has Bowser, Jr., The Koopalings, King K. Rool, Ganondorf, Ridley, Dark Samus and Wolf in Smash.

(Smash also has Meta Knight, King Dedede and Mewtwo but I am not counting them as villains.)

Who is the biggest Nintendo owned villain that isn't playable in Smash?
Interesting question really. Going down the series that are currently present, the only major ones I'd say are missing are Louie Team Rocket (as a whole), Andross, Medusa/Hades, Dr. Octavio, Marx, and Giygas/Porky. With Kid Icarus and Mother being currently dormant series, that leaves TR, Marx, Andross (barely) and Dr. Octavio. Between those four, I'd say TR is probably the biggest one since they're prominent in most aspects of Pokemon media and their archetype has been copied and updated across the series within the games proper.

There's also Black Knight who definitely has the popularity to be included into Smash, but suffers due to the fact that his franchise rotates between characters.

Edit: Forgot King Boo and Ganon. With Luigi's Mansion growing to become its own subseries he's actually another strong case after TR. Ganon depends on how you treat him relative to Ganondorf, but his form in particular is also prominent in the series.

I mean yeah, he works too, but if we gotta choose a Shadow Dragon villain, pick the right-hand man in 1 transformed into main villain in 3.

He was even in Warriors ffs.


I would also say Gharnef plays a bigger role in Marth's story than boring earth dragon Medeus.
Yet Medeus is the one with the spirit. :4pacman:
 
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Will

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Perhaps, though since we haven't really seen his dash, he kind of gives me the impression of someone who doesn't take their opponents seriously enough to move quickly.
Sephiroth, from what I remember, actually walks super slow while he fights, so I would find it funny if he has the slowest walk in the game. His dash (and jump) game though is pretty powerful, just look up any fight scene he's in.
 

Rie Sonomura

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A troubling foe, and yet, I can't resist! Overcome with an unearned hubris, I'll rise to the task~

Good evening! As of... let's see... December 13th 2020, this is my hard prediction, fueled by confirmation bias and nothing else. I'm an irrational knobgoblin, and who would I be to be better than that? No, of course not. This is my time to go at it, make the fool out of myself~

Now, I'm adhering pretty strongly to the 5chan leak here - almost seems stupid of me. It probably is. Surely out of so many tommyrot text leaks, one might hit the nail on the head with a single fighter, even in regards to a pick like Sephiroth! Indeed, the leak has not yet proven itself to be more than a fluke. It has not done so in the slightest.

And so I tried to seperate the leak itself, from the idea of the latter half of the pass looking like this... and the more I thought about it, the more sense I found it to make. I'm going to go over these three and what I'm thinking about them, if you'll let me... You can't stop me~!

KOS-MOS

I know KOS-MOS is a bit divisive around these parts, but hear me out. And then make fun of me, if you'd like. Whether Xenosaga is particularly relevant or not... probably doesn't matter as much as whether KOS-MOS herself is a character that those in charge think people will buy. On that front, I think there's just a little more merit than she's given credit for. KOS-MOS is demonstrably a marketable character, idependently so of Xenosaga. I was actually surprised just how much material involving her seemed to exist. I think KOS-MOS is a recognizable enough face to at the very least make sense as an oncoming fighter.

There's also the more intangible aspect that is purely percieved on my part: those upstairs really just seem to love her to bits, that lot. Monolith in particular seems to hold her in very high regard, perhaps the closest thing the studio has to a mascot of sorts. While it may be mostly internal, she has a sort of clout few other characters have, not that I think any character particularly needs it. And, surely, those working on this game will have a very easy time getting in touch with those that own KOS-MOS, Bandai Na- wait a minute...

All waters aside, I think these two aspects of her situation come together to put her in a much better spot than people realize. I would compare her to Bayonetta in the sense of almost being a sort of honorary first-party, if you'll entertain that.

Crash

Now, Crash... Crash is Crash. He's probably the single most requested fighter in general as it currently stands, and I think he's had the momentum long enough for that to have mattered when these decisions were made. It seemed as though this muppet had all the cards back in October, and even three days ago, he was seen as in the running.

I fail to see why he's any less prominent than before, especially since as per the timeline I will present soon enough, he'd likely be unveiled at the best time to do so with a crowd-pleaser like this. His odds have looked quite strong for about as long as this pass has been ongoing, to the point where I have precious little to add, speaking as somebody not particularly invested in his chances. You know where we do have a conflict of interest, though...?

Reimu

I'm going to keep it real here. I want Reimu in Smash. A lot. Has this clouded my judgement on the matter when it comes to the 5chan leak? You better believe it. But for the sake of this thought exercise, I'm happy to own that, and truck on anyway.

To say Reimu is "popular in Japan" would be, uh... rather modest. She's a downright unrivalled indie icon, sat atop an empire of official work and oceans, oceans of fan content. There is no sidestepping her prominence. A solid chunk of those on the roster would cower in fear in her shadow.

The main thing people bring up to respond to this is that she's not known overseas. Once upon a time this was very true. However seeing as people here have been, uh, talking about her, clearly it's not quite the case. Indeed, thanks to Ronald McDonald the power of the internet, Touhou has been successful in gaining an impressive western following, the tireless efforts of fans allowing this to be the case long before official work was even distributed there. Perhaps to us she's "niche" but you could say the same about plenty of fighters in Smash. She's present here, and a truly unstoppable force in the birthplace of Smash Bros. A character like this is absolutely pass-finishing material, as I'd like to present in a moment, able to flaunt a kind of cult following we've seen of Mr. Bogard.

Timeline

When I was ordering these three, I had reasons for my placements. I'm going to present a somewhat rough timeline for this scenario and then explain myself best I can.

KOS-MOS - March 2021
Crash - Summer 2021
Reimu - Winter 2021

There's been a bit of buzz about the prospect of a March reveal for Challenger 9, and I think it largely checks out. It's a sensible gap of time with the good ol' amiibo indicator. I don't feel like there's a whole lot I'd need to say for why I feel this way. KOS-MOS being where she is has to do with this simply being where she ended up after thinking about where Crash and Reimu oughta go.

Crash is where he is for two reasons. First off, if he's in this pass and they've held off so long, I would say that it points to an E3 (or E3-adjacent, love ya COVID) reveal. There's hardly a better time and place to bring out the show-stopper, which I'd imagine most would consider Crash to be. I also can't imagine KOS-MOS and Reimu being back-to-back. Crash not only fits into the best time to reveal him (IMO), but also neatly breaks up two fighters with somewhat similar appeal.

Ending the pass, and just in time for that deadline would be Reimu. The resolution following Sephiroth's rising action, and - hmm... y'know what, I'm not giving anyone that line. Anyway, such a resolution is embodied quite nicely with a fighter who can feel simultaneously a bit outlandish, and yet also have the appeal to back it up. I think that's Reimu, and I think this is when she'll present herself. She'll bring ire to some, confusion to others, and something real special to many. And with that, our golden Fighters Pass would draw to a close. Would it be the end? I have no idea; my intuition draws a blank.

Before signing off here, I'd note that I put more than a bit of work into the little mock-up you see before you. I wanted to make it stand out a bit from most templates. I hope it's a pleasure to see. The renders of KOS-MOS and Reimu used for it were made by newt and GGalactigal respecitively.
Thunderous applause bravo!!

they’d def drop Kossy after Sephiroth to be more on the down low and Crash and Reimu around E3 for a dual east-west appeal
 

Kokiden

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
782
I hope they don't make Sephiroth as slow as a snail.

Characters with heavy weapons that are mobile are quite a blast to play.
Over in the Sephiroth thread, a few of us have come to the conclusion that he is going to be slow to play unfortunately.

Of course, it's all speculation and we don't know how he's going to play out until the presentation on Friday (my time), but going by the trailer, it's looking to be the case.

I'd love it if he were mobile and feels smooth to control, but I doubt it.
 

TheTuninator

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
2,315
Over in the Sephiroth thread, a few of us have come to the conclusion that he is going to be slow to play unfortunately.

Of course, it's all speculation and we don't know how he's going to play out until the presentation on Friday (my time), but going by the trailer, it's looking to be the case.

I'd love it if he were mobile and feels smooth to control, but I doubt it.
Yeah, it just doesn't seem plausible that he'd have both gonzo range and incredible speed combined with the inevitably excellent hitting power and what will be (presumably) middling to heavy weight - what weakness would he even have at that point?
 
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