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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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3BitSaurus

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I don't see how. When asked about Xenosaga's legacy, I merely have to point at Xenoblade. It's that simple and obvious. Without Xenosaga, there is no Xenoblade.
I mean... that's just a consequence of game development. Xenosaga helped the team get the know-how to make JRPGs. That's pretty much what I'm getting from that quote.

It's a good thing, to be honest, but... I think that's more of an internal legacy for Monolith than it is for the general gaming landscape.

Like, without Bastion and Transistor there would be no Hades, but it's clear which one is more influential as a whole.
 

Idon

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I wonder sometimes... Perhaps, are we overestimating how much reason the people upstairs need to toss somebody into Smash?
Possibly.

Honestly, I don't think Nintendo very much cares about "Legacy" or what have you. It seems moreso characters that happen to have Legacy just do so as a nice little bonus to being a character they think people will buy.
 

Momotsuki

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Possibly.

Honestly, I don't think Nintendo very much cares about "Legacy" or what have you. It seems moreso characters that happen to have Legacy just do so as a nice little bonus to being a character they think people will buy.
Honestly, I think what's most important is if the character is cool and interesting. More than relevancy, the actual source material, what have you. The rule of cool is what's matters the most in terms of how I feel about an inclusion. Sometimes, like last night, or even two months ago, you get a character that is not only a firm adherent to the rule of cool, but also happens to be a great inclusion for the sake of the roster's stated mission, which is always nice but not necessary, again in my opinion.
 
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ahemtoday

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I was thinking about Porky a ways back, and I was wondering whether to do the EarthBound or Mother 3 design. Oftentimes with this sort of thing you just pick the fan-favorite one and be done with it, but what gave me pause was that I think the appeal of Porky... kind of is that he has those two designs. He goes from snot-nosed brat to megalomaniacal villain, and I think the complete picture is what makes him interesting rather than just one of those individually. Unfortunately, it'd be very challenging to represent that sort of progression in his moveset.

I never back down from a challenge, though, so I tried thinking about it and came up with something that... maybe might work question mark? What I came up with is that Porky's as he is in M3, but who you actually control is a Porky Bot. The Porky Bot has basically the moveset you'd expect of Porky without the mech, except for a couple of his specials - or some move or another, anyway - the real Porky, spider mech and all, drops down from the top blast zone (where he has implicitly been the whole time), lands on stage, does an attack, and then leaves.

That's the only way I could come up with to represent both sides of Porky while not making some weird transformation character. It's a little bit screwy, admittedly. Honestly, I decided I liked it when the image came to me of a victory screen with the Porky Bot laughing... and then a slow pan up to a more melancholy, wheezing laugh from the real one. That really captured an emotional aspect of the character that I don't think you could in any other way.
 

MooMew64

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Yesterday was weird, right guys?
View attachment 295194
Can I be completely honest?

Not really a fan of memes that are specifically designed to get a rise out of fanbases and mock/degrade people who want characters. Stuff like this is really mean spirited IMO.
 
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SNEKeater

Smash Master
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the only downside is dante is likely done. just a huge overlap on aesthetic and weapon.
I mean, sure, if we're talking about the next character then I could see your point. But a lot of people could also argue that having "anime JRPG characters back to back is also an overlap" and we had Joker and Hero back to back. Plus Byleth, in the same pass.

Ok, you know what?

I'm gonna finally say it.

Neither Dante, nor Phoenix, nor Monster Hunter are in.

Our Capcom rep is JIN SAOTOME, and I will not take no for an answer.
View attachment 295177
I remember choosing him most of the times everytime I played Marvel when I was a kid, he's so cool

CAPCOM WHY DO YOU HAVE SO MANY COOL CHARACTERS
 
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Speed Weed

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Can I be completely honest?

Not really a fan of memes that are specifically designed to get a rise out of fanbases and mock/degrade people who want characters. Stuff like this is really mean spirited IMO.
As someone who's overjoyed over the character the meme in question is "celebrating"...I feel ya, fam. Mamboo does this **** all the time from what I've observed and it's legitimately annoying.

Cause like - it's a *ing video game! Why are you so gleeful about seeing internet strangers get upset!? You're never gonna see these people in your life! I absolutely hate how prevalent and ingrained this "salt/drinking tears culture" is in Smash community discourse, and I wish more people would realize that by doing this, you're not funny or clever or somehow morally superior because like a single fan of one of the characters you're mocking did an oopsie...you're just plain being a *.
 
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Shroob

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6 days, going on 5, until we see the One-Winged Angel in full force, and hopefully a same-day release.


Soo many questions.


Will he bring more than 2 songs?
Will the Spirit board use classic or R artwork?
Is Geno alive or Mii Costume'd?
Will we get a teaser for the next wave of Amiibo?
What is Omnislash V5 and how does it work? Is it just a reskin for the Advent Children outfit?


Soo many questions, soon to be answered.
 
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SharkLord

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Yesterday was weird, right guys?
View attachment 295194
I'm sorry but I'm going to have to arrest you for "thing I don't like" Wojak memes, which are legally filed under optical assault.
Man tho, yesterday was crazy. Had this dream that ****ing Sephiroth was shown off at The Game Awards instead of Jonesy, how crazy is that?


:ultsephiroth:


Oh you mean that wasn't a dream? That was real? Holy ****
1607734449465.png

"I will never be a dream."
 

Mamboo07

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Can I be completely honest?

Not really a fan of memes that are specifically designed to get a rise out of fanbases and mock/degrade people who want characters. Stuff like this is really mean spirited IMO.
It's representing that we didn't expect Sephiroth to become a fighter.
 

TwiceEXE

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Just saw that people had a big enough hissy fit to get the Geno thread shut down. Woof. Probably for the best until after Thursday though.

Anyway, I've been looking back at the old list of 40 characters from 4chan. It can probably be dismissed outright because of the lack of ARMS, but with every other character being on that list it does make me a little curious. I wouldn't be too surprised to see our last three characters come from that same list.
 

Shroob

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Just saw that people had a big enough hissy fit to get the Geno thread shut down. Woof. Probably for the best until after Thursday though.

Anyway, I've been looking back at the old list of 40 characters from 4chan. It can probably be dismissed outright because of the lack of ARMS, but with every other character being on that list it does make me a little curious. I wouldn't be too surprised to see our last three characters come from that same list.
It's interesting, but as someone else said:

Cast a net wide enough, you'll eventually catch something.


It's a bit hard for me to take the list seriously when it had 40~ names of popular video game characters on it. Even if the last 3 characters come from it, I'll still be extremely skeptical just due to how wide and encompassing it is.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I was thinking about Porky a ways back, and I was wondering whether to do the EarthBound or Mother 3 design. Oftentimes with this sort of thing you just pick the fan-favorite one and be done with it, but what gave me pause was that I think the appeal of Porky... kind of is that he has those two designs. He goes from snot-nosed brat to megalomaniacal villain, and I think the complete picture is what makes him interesting rather than just one of those individually. Unfortunately, it'd be very challenging to represent that sort of progression in his moveset.

I never back down from a challenge, though, so I tried thinking about it and came up with something that... maybe might work question mark? What I came up with is that Porky's as he is in M3, but who you actually control is a Porky Bot. The Porky Bot has basically the moveset you'd expect of Porky without the mech, except for a couple of his specials - or some move or another, anyway - the real Porky, spider mech and all, drops down from the top blast zone (where he has implicitly been the whole time), lands on stage, does an attack, and then leaves.

That's the only way I could come up with to represent both sides of Porky while not making some weird transformation character. It's a little bit screwy, admittedly. Honestly, I decided I liked it when the image came to me of a victory screen with the Porky Bot laughing... and then a slow pan up to a more melancholy, wheezing laugh from the real one. That really captured an emotional aspect of the character that I don't think you could in any other way.
Not a big fan of playing as one of Porky's Pokies. It's not even like the Pokémon Trainer where being a background character makes sense, and you still feel like you are playing as that character.

I think Earthbound Porky could represent his early and end game personalities fairly well with more childish taunts, and a penchant for brutal looking attacks given with wild facial expressions. You wouldn't be able to portray the emotional points of his Mother 3 incarnation, but I think that's OK, since a lot of the impact of it comes from not really knowing about his condition until the end, and not having him in such a state allows him a higher range of characterization.

The one bright side to your idea though, is that it would spawn droves of people mechanically making memes about it, and a world with more Porky's Pokies memes is a good one to be sure.
 

RileyXY1

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Both rumors cannot be real at the same time, as the list does not feature Reimu or KOS-MOS.
 

Momotsuki

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Can I be completely honest?

Not really a fan of memes that are specifically designed to get a rise out of fanbases and mock/degrade people who want characters. Stuff like this is really mean spirited IMO.
I mostly agree for the fanbases of almost any other character - except that if you wanted Jonesy I'm gonna make fun of ya. These people exist, even if not on this thread, and they were convinced he was gonna be last night's reveal.
 
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Shroob

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I mostly agree for the fanbases of almost any other character - except that if you wanted Jonesy I'm gonna make fun of ya. These people exist, even if not on this thread, and they were convinced he was gonna be last night's reveal.
I mean that's still kinda a **** move and falls under the umbrella of "I don't like this thing, I'm going to make fun of you." :mybodyisreggie:
 

Ivander

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6 days, going on 5, until we see the One-Winged Angel in full force, and hopefully a same-day release.

Will he bring more than 2 songs?
Will the Spirit board use classic or R artwork?
Is Geno alive or Mii Costume'd?
Will we get a teaser for the next wave of Amiibo?
What is Omnislash V5 and how does it work? Is it just a reskin for the Advent Children outfit?
-At the very least, it seems like a no-brainer for them to include One Winged Angel. I don't know if they'll add more aside from that one, but at the least One Winged Angel feels like a guarantee.
-I'm expecting Remake artwork/images.
-Who knows at this point?
-Wouldn't be surprised.
-Omnislash V5 is what Cloud uses to defeat Sephiroth in Final Fantasy VII Advent Children. I assume at the least, it's a Final Smash re-skin for his Advent Children costume.
 

Momotsuki

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I mean that's still kinda a **** move and falls under the umbrella of "I don't like this thing, I'm going to make fun of you." :mybodyisreggie:
I agree! It won't stop me but you are absolutely right. :4pacman:


Both rumors cannot be real at the same time, as the list does not feature Reimu or KOS-MOS.
Well... neither has to be real. The one I was talking about some time ago doesn't really merit discussion as it stands either, it's just something to keep in the back of your mind for the time being.
 
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ahemtoday

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874
Not a big fan of playing as one of Porky's Pokies. It's not even like the Pokémon Trainer where being a background character makes sense, and you still feel like you are playing as that character.

I think Earthbound Porky could represent his early and end game personalities fairly well with more childish taunts, and a penchant for brutal looking attacks given with wild facial expressions. You wouldn't be able to portray the emotional points of his Mother 3 incarnation, but I think that's OK, since a lot of the impact of it comes from not really knowing about his condition until the end, and not having him in such a state allows him a higher range of characterization.

The one bright side to your idea though, is that it would spawn droves of people mechanically making memes about it, and a world with more Porky's Pokies memes is a good one to be sure.
I mean, the way I was envisioning it, you wouldn't really be able to tell it wasn't the real Porky until the spider mech dropped down. I recognize that's not quite accurate to the way their actions are described in Mother 3, but the main point of using one of Porky's Pokies is to effectively have both the Mother 2 and 3 designs in the same moveset anyhow.

Still, I get what you're saying. It is a bit of a weird way of going about it, and I don't exactly have my finger on the pulse of what Porky fans would want out of the character.
 

Peeton

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I legit saw someone say Sephiroths inclusion is like a fake fan mod, like, why
I’ve been saying it since Banjo, smash ultimate is an elaborate brawl mod! Cloud, K.Rool, Ridley, Terry, Sephiroth, Minecraft??? There have definitely been mod packs with those specific characters! It’s just funny seeing 2000’s most wanted officially in the game.
 

I.D.

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What elevates KOS-MOS to not be a character of absolutely middling chance?
I frankly don't know and I don't care; when people like me who like her bring up her unique and peculiar circumstances, we are not doing so out of a desire to make her to be some sort of worldwide heavy hitter, we are doing it so people can see potential avenues of inclusion exist AT ALL instead of being instantly mocked and conversation shut down. We try to show people that, in fact, Monolith's history didn't begin the moment Nintendo bought them. Reminder, this whole conversation was started because someone basically asked if she had something going for her. That's all it was (with a derail of someone spreading misinfo about an unrelated series supposedly performing better)

I don't care how tired people were of fake leaks during December of last year.
I don't care how annoying conspiracy theorists were during that month.
I don't care about the imaginary chance scores people like to dream up and that almost never lead to a correct answer in the first place.
I don't care to provide proof of how many Nintendobux developer favoritism is worth when it comes to Nintendo developers.

Yeah, I like Kosmos. I like Monolith Soft as a whole actually. If you ask how I think she's possible, I'll give you a potential reasoning, even if you think it's faulty. If you spread misinfo, I'll correct you. If you tell me she's just a fad bandwagon that will fade away, I'll think you are a fool, because not only is Monolith Soft an important part of Nintendo now, but because they continue to use Kosmos in their works, because her popularity endures in spite of everything, and because Nintendo obviously sees no problem with it. For better or worse, the smash fanbase is stuck with us monosimps now, so to speak. I mean you yourself pointed that within the Smash fanbase she places within the 40s which may not sound good, but where was she placing before? Was she even registering? No, I don't think she was. I think it would be more beneficial to everyone if they just accepted that yes, Monolith (not just Xenoblade) is in fact part of Nintendo now, and thus it will naturally attract fans to Smash with their own dreams of never evers and that they're part of the conversation now, instead of repeating this same song and dance where we try to drag each other into the mud because we don't have enough cult popularity points or whatever.

By this legacy logic we should get Xenogears, not Xenosaga.
It's hard enough to bat for Kosmos in here, you want me to also do it for Fei? Give me a break. People have enough trouble separating Monolith from their parent company, imagine separating the individuals from the legal entity.
 

TheCJBrine

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The Mother 3 appearance is the one most people want to see, as that depiction of him is more memorable in the fandom, mostly due to his appearance as a boss in Brawl.
I’m sure this is false; most fans I’ve seen love both of his appearances and those Smash moveset ideas that use his EarthBound appearance were well-received. Even so, he’s just as prominent in EarthBound as he his in Mother 3; he may not be the main antagonist, but he still shows up somewhat often and he shows up at the end of the game fighting you alongside Giygas until he decides to release Giygas and leaves, leaving a message for Picky to give Ness at the very end.

In Mother 3, while you see his influence for just about the whole game, you only see him in the final chapter. And he’s still important in EarthBound anyway; besides, he’s a Mother character, they could still promote the series with him either way if they wanted to.

And both his appearances are memorable. Are you implying the Smash fanbase solely, even if they haven’t played the Mother series? If so, why should that matter? They could just as easily like his EarthBound appearance and apparently they don’t actually care anyway if they’re not going to play the series, though I haven’t seen anyone saying this kind of stuff anyway...
 
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SNEKeater

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6 days, going on 5, until we see the One-Winged Angel in full force, and hopefully a same-day release.


Soo many questions.


Will he bring more than 2 songs?
Will the Spirit board use classic or R artwork?
Is Geno alive or Mii Costume'd?
Will we get a teaser for the next wave of Amiibo?
What is Omnislash V5 and how does it work? Is it just a reskin for the Advent Children outfit?


Soo many questions, soon to be answered.
About music. I'm like 99% convinced we'll get more than 2 songs. I mean, I'd be very disappointed if they repeat the same as they did with Cloud. And I'm pretty sure Sakurai, Nintendo and SE are aware about the infamous memes and jokes about Cloud and his 2 tracks.
So I'm not saying Sephiroth will bring 50 songs like Terry but I'm convinced they have worked even more if necessary to bring at least between 7 and 10 tracks, the average for other DLC fighters.

Spirits will be classic art for sure.

Geno, that's a good question. I think he will return as a Deluxe Mii Costume. But if he doesn't appear, then I'm expecting him to return as playable in the future. Like, if Sakurai managed to get him as a Mii Costume back in Smash 4, I don't see why he wouldn't succeed again in Ultimate, specially seeing how on board Square Enix seems to be with Smash. Also they already negotiated for Geno in base game as a spirit, so his Mii Costume returning shouldn't be that difficult. For that reason if Geno doesn't show up next week I'd be really surprised and I'd be expecting him as playable.

Next wave of amiibo, maybe it's too soon? But if it happens I think it will be just Min Min's.

I assume Cloud's new FS only triggers against Sephiroth. But your idea would be really cool.
 

Perkilator

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6 days, going on 5, until we see the One-Winged Angel in full force, and hopefully a same-day release.


Soo many questions.


Will he bring more than 2 songs?
Will the Spirit board use classic or R artwork?
Is Geno alive or Mii Costume'd?
Will we get a teaser for the next wave of Amiibo?
What is Omnislash V5 and how does it work? Is it just a reskin for the Advent Children outfit?


Soo many questions, soon to be answered.
Another one: what are Sora's chances after this, really? Never mind if he gets in Vol. 2 or a Vol. 3
 

Mamboo07

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I've always felt that Geno is probably an example of how "too small" a highly requested character can be.

Like people have always tried putting him on the same level as Ridley, K. Rool and Banjo-Kazooie but it's just...yeah. Fan demand aside, those are like, either reoccuring villains from long running series or in B-K's case, the main protagonists of their own series of games. Generally speaking those fall under the usual criteria that most Smash characters do. Geno does not.

Quite frankly I just always thought it'd be kinda stupid to have Geno be playable while other characters he's even less significant then like Waluigi, Ashley and Krystal could only muster assist trophies. I honesty just wish Sakurai had made him an AT in the base game just to rip the band-aid off and give his fanbase closure just as he did with Isaac, Krystal, Shadow, etc, instead of prolonging this for years.
Same, I prefer him as an Assist Trophy.
(Sadly, his fans would kinda b****h and whine just like what happened with Waluigi two years ago.)

Getting sick of the puppet popping up everywhere from fake believable rumours to hype-ruining leaks.
 

Schnee117

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Same, I prefer him as an Assist Trophy.
(Sadly, his fans would kinda b****h and whine just like what happened with Waluigi two years ago.)

Getting sick of the puppet popping up everywhere from fake believable rumours to hype-ruining leaks.
I eagerly await the day you stop trying to stir **** around
 
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