Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I'm back to posting my slightly updated Lara Croft moveset. She is quickly becoming my most wanted character (and also, who I've always felt should have been added instead of Bayonetta). Please offer feedback.

LARA CROFT

Style: ACTION SURVIVAL


Standard Special: Dual Pistols. Lara holds B and rapidly fires her pistols. Once she hits a target, it locks on. When locked onto a target, she cannot Shield or Dodge without releasing B. However, if she does use the Shield button, this gives her the ability to lock onto a second target if they are near the first target, and each of the two targets gets hit at half speed (as they each only have one pistol locked on). Lara has full mobility while shooting.

Side Special: Bow and Arrow. Lara can press the combination multiple times to switch arrow types, indicated by a meter on the bottom. The options are

• Standard Arrow (slightly faster than others)
• Fire Arrow (slightly more damage)
• Poison Arrow (Damage that lngers)
• Explosive Arrow (Slightly More Radius of Damage
• Piercing Arrow (can go through opponent and hit multiple)

Up Special: Skilled Climber. Lara throws out a grappling hook. It is longer than the average tether grab, and Is able to be aimed. If it lands, Lara climbs up the rope, and then can continue to climb up the stage by another half of the rope’s length, regardless of the angle. The hook will also cause average damage if it lands on an opponent, and will push them out of the way to securely attach to a ledge if Lara is in the air.

Down Special: Endure. Lara is known to survive, and this move helps her in multiple ways. For several frames once pressed, Lara will enter an invincible mode. This will mean she can survive a couple of hits without taking damage or knockback, break a counter used on her, move through rapid fire attacks. It is also used passively to help her survive for slighter longer when swimming, and passively keeps her from taking damage or effect from stage hazards.

In stark contrast to other characters, and to emphasize that Lara is a human thrown into other worldy adventures- her Smash attacks, not her specials, will use animations of the items in her more magical explorations- though they will not be as versatile as her specials. She can crawl, wall cling, and wall jump.

I like it for the most part, but the down special confuses me a bit. I always got the impression that Lara survives more by her wits than by taking hits, if that makes sense. Don't the games generally make her pretty fragile? From what I know (which isn't much, tbh) I'd be more inclined to give her a trap of some sort than something like Ryu's focus attack. Otherwise, I think your moveset seems pretty good. I do think she would feel something like if Link and Zero Suit Samus had a fusion dance (not tools so much as general game plan): mobile, but with lots of tools to control the battlefield.

Granted, I don't know the character super well. This is just my impression from a distance.

 

[PacificFun]

I'm back to posting my slightly updated Lara Croft moveset. She is quickly becoming my most wanted character (and also, who I've always felt should have been added instead of Bayonetta). Please offer feedback.

LARA CROFT

Style: ACTION SURVIVAL


Standard Special: Dual Pistols. Lara holds B and rapidly fires her pistols. Once she hits a target, it locks on. When locked onto a target, she cannot Shield or Dodge without releasing B. However, if she does use the Shield button, this gives her the ability to lock onto a second target if they are near the first target, and each of the two targets gets hit at half speed (as they each only have one pistol locked on). Lara has full mobility while shooting.

Side Special: Bow and Arrow. Lara can press the combination multiple times to switch arrow types, indicated by a meter on the bottom. The options are

• Standard Arrow (slightly faster than others)
• Fire Arrow (slightly more damage)
• Poison Arrow (Damage that lngers)
• Explosive Arrow (Slightly More Radius of Damage
• Piercing Arrow (can go through opponent and hit multiple)

Up Special: Skilled Climber. Lara throws out a grappling hook. It is longer than the average tether grab, and Is able to be aimed. If it lands, Lara climbs up the rope, and then can continue to climb up the stage by another half of the rope’s length, regardless of the angle. The hook will also cause average damage if it lands on an opponent, and will push them out of the way to securely attach to a ledge if Lara is in the air.

Down Special: Endure. Lara is known to survive, and this move helps her in multiple ways. For several frames once pressed, Lara will enter an invincible mode. This will mean she can survive a couple of hits without taking damage or knockback, break a counter used on her, move through rapid fire attacks. It is also used passively to help her survive for slighter longer when swimming, and passively keeps her from taking damage or effect from stage hazards.

In stark contrast to other characters, and to emphasize that Lara is a human thrown into other worldy adventures- her Smash attacks, not her specials, will use animations of the items in her more magical explorations- though they will not be as versatile as her specials. She can crawl, wall cling, and wall jump.

I love it!

 

[Perkilator]

They seem realistic to me. Bayonetta especially.

I'll give you the other three, but...

You look at Cloud's hair and say he looks realistic.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I like it for the most part, but the down special confuses me a bit. I always got the impression that Lara survives more by her wits than by taking hits, if that makes sense. Don't the games generally make her pretty fragile? From what I know (which isn't much, tbh) I'd be more inclined to give her a trap of some sort than something like Ryu's focus attack. Otherwise, I think your moveset seems pretty good. I do think she would feel something like if Link and Zero Suit Samus had a fusion dance (not tools so much as general game plan): mobile, but with lots of tools to control the battlefield.

Granted, I don't know the character super well. This is just my impression from a distance.

I just wanted Lara to have a move that was... well... to Survive what was thrown at her.
So many characters have counters, and I don't think she has that. But I felt giving her one move that works as a somewhat catch-all to that effect would be both unique, and fit her style of survival mechanics.

 

[SNEKeater]

Has anyone ever brought up that Trails fans are eating well lately?

Because they've been eating well lately.

Yeah it was mentioned in Adol's support thread.

Very cool rendition of the song by the way. To be honest I didn't know this guy's channel until recently.

 

[Spongeboob]

Now that Steve is in, Lara Croft is the most iconic gaming character not in Smash.

Yes, she is bigger than Crash, Dante and the like.

The only other characters that even come remotely close are Doom Slayer and Master Cheif.

Lara is an absolute titan who has transcended the medium.

She absolutely SHOULD be in Smash.

Maybe it was that big back in the 2000s, but now I think it has simmered down a bit. I'd say it's about as big as Crash Bandicoot, Devil May Cry, and Doom nowadays. It's definitely big, but not HALO levels of big (not anymore at least).

Which is shocking she's not even a frequency requested character even overshadowed by a side character who only appeared in a 20+ game and a protagonist who is basically from Disney/Final Fantasy fanfiction.

You would honestly think otherwise.

Not really? Gee, no and Sort-of have been requested as early as Brawl, before the roster was the only thing people talked about.

Because we don't have a dancing character. DUH

Today I will remind them.

Spoiler: Today I will remind them.

I'd also like to add that in Three Houses, while neither Byleth can become a dancer, the process in getting a dancer unit involves Byleth teaching a unit how to dance. So there's that.
In short, the following characters are dancers:

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Dancing characters eh?

this coulda been the prime moment to talk about Shantae but y’all sleepin

 

[PacificFun]

Maybe it was that big back in the 2000s, but now I think it has simmered down a bit. I'd say it's about as big as Crash Bandicoot, Devil May Cry, and Doom nowadays. It's definitely big, but not HALO levels of big (not anymore at least).

I don't want to sound like a Tomb Raider fan boy but Halo isn't nearly as big as it was in the mid-2000s. I would agree it was bigger than Tomb Raider at one point but not anymore. Tomb Raider is also just a bigger franchise (even though it's a bit unfair to compare with being multiplat and having three theatrical films).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Which is shocking she's not even a frequency requested character even overshadowed by a side character who only appeared in a 20+ year game and a protagonist who is basically from Disney/Final Fantasy fanfiction.

You would honestly think otherwise.

Imagine using what the vocal minority of the Smash fanbase thinks and assuming this applies to the entire Smash playerbase of over 20 million people.

Just because you don't hear the requests doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[Perkilator]

Dancing characters, eh?

Time to shill Azura again!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Dancing characters, eh?

Time to shill Azura again!

I would unironically be on board with Azura getting in Smash.

My main issue with it is that I'm both curious about how they can make 9 more versions of Lost in Thoughts All Alone and worried because it means Fates representation in Smash would shaft one of the few good aspects of that game even further; the soundtrack having bangers outside of the main theme.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Since nobody wants to start the Shantae discussion...

I’ll do it myself.

how would she play? What transformations would she use?

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think that "iconicness" means anything, as Smash has gotten lesser known third parties like Bayonetta, Joker, and Terry, and Resident Evil, the most profitable Japanese video game franchise without a playable character in Smash, was given a simple Spirit Event rather than a playable character.

 

[Spongeboob]

Dancing characters, eh?

Time to shill Azura again!

Wait Azura's a dancer (too)? I thought she was (just) a singer.

 

[PacificFun]

I don't think that "iconicness" means anything, as Smash has gotten lesser known third parties like Bayonetta, Joker, and Terry, and Resident Evil, the most profitable Japanese video game franchise without a playable character in Smash, was given a simple Spirit Event rather than a playable character.

To be fair, making a Resident Evil moveset work in Smash would be really difficult. I don't really know how they would pull it off naturally so to speak.

 

[RileyXY1]

To be fair, making a Resident Evil moveset work in Smash would be really difficult. I don't really know how they would pull it off naturally so to speak.

Yeah, and the fact that a lot of potential characters have been deconfirmed through interviews, like Doomguy, Ryza, Tracer, or Kiryu.

 

[Idon]

Wait Azura's a dancer (too)? I thought she was (just) a singer.

Oh yes, Azura is a performer in all regards.

dunno who this person is though

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Nobody wants to carry on my Shantae discussion starter? Oh... okay then...

 

[ShrimpScampi]

Since nobody wants to start the Shantae discussion...

I’ll do it myself.

how would she play? What transformations would she use?

I'm torn about how Shantae would best be implemented, because there's a lot to draw from, between her transformations, magic, hair whips, and Risky's pirate gear from Pirate's Curse. I really want to give her a transformation special -- maybe if you hit down-B, you could go into the dance animation, and then could pick between like three transformations to use for a limited time, each with their own moveset. But I honestly think that the way Seven Sirens handled transformations (where they're basically moves rather than having to dance for a bit and then getting a completely new set of abilities) would work best for her in Smash.

If her moveset goes with that approach, she could be transforming instantaneously for different moves -- maybe dash attack could be the tortoise spin or monkey bullet, or the harpy form could be her up special. If they want to do something with the dance animation, maybe have it be a smash attack or two (e.g. the charge animation for down smash is the dance, and when you release she turns into an elephant and does the stomp move). From there they can fill in other moves with magic or pirate gear.

With Shantae it's hard (at least for me) to come up with moves for her because she has a lot of different abilities, so it's a bit overwhelming trying to condense that into a moveset lol.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Oh yes, Azura is a performer in all regards.

dunno who this person is though

She is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

If we're talking about dancing characters, I think I know a guy who can dance!

Time to Split!

 

[SharkLord]

Since nobody wants to start the Shantae discussion...

I’ll do it myself.

how would she play? What transformations would she use?

I haven't really played Shantae (Though I probably should), but I think instantaneous transformations would flow better. I'm not a big fan of "Four specials for the price of one!" concepts; They just feel too cluttered. The Spider and Elephant forms are a no-brainer, being the most consistent dances, and Harpy is an obvious up special. Not sure about the exact movesets, though; I might want to pick up the series first (Once I get through Touhou Luna Nights and five Ys games, of course).

 

[ZelDan]

If Shantae were to be in Smash, I could see her standard attacks being based around her pirate gear from Pirate's Curse (maybe, I kind of forget all the pirate gear you get in that game as I haven't played in Pirate's Curse in a long while), and her specials based on her animal transformation. Each directional special could have a different animal (like her side special being the elephant dash attack).

As for her final Smash, I could see that be where her dancing comes into play, where it could kind of become like DDR, and how powerful her final Smash becomes depends on how well you can match the arrows appearing on screen.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

As for her final Smash, I could see that be where her dancing comes into play, where it could kind of become like DDR, and how powerful her final Smash becomes depends on how well you can match the arrows appearing on screen.

I could see it work similar to Bayonetta's Final Smash in that you need to do something before triggering the actual Final Smash.

In this case, you do the DDR stuff and how strong it is depends on how well you did.

 

[Commander_Alph]

I would argue Candy Crush and Angry Birds are the two most known mobile games that exist.
And... just because you don't find it to be of quality, that's really just an opinion. Angry Birds is known to an entire audience who aren't self stated gamers. The characters are nearly Looney Tunes. And it could even be argued to be educational with how it deals with physics.

To be fair saying Angry Bird is deserving oly because "it's a famous mobile game" isn't cut it, as I say the term "deserving" game for me at least is a game that changes the genre for better and in the case of Granblue Fantasy and Gengshin Impact really impacted the state of mobile game as a whole and could compete with other big studio game while Angry Bird only living in their own bubble and still **** **** up for no goddamn reason. They didn't do anything phenomenal for mobile games or video game as a whole and they along with Subway Surfer, Candy Crush, Geometry Dash and Flappy Bird is just basically the equivalent of a viral game like Baldi's Basics and Doki Doki back in the day except Rovio still milking it dry even past their prime even go as far as removing the old games just so that people will download their newest game in the series. Overall the impact of Angry Bird is so miniscule or even non existence, the movies didn't helped them since if you want to count the movie in because they're now relevant again might as well put Qbert and that DDR girl from the Emoji Movie deserving then. While on the other hand you know that said game is deserving when Gengshin Impact is literally one of the nomination of TGA and the game that make core audience of video game soften up to the idea of a mobile game unlike back in the day when it gets so much hate with its free-to-play aspect and not so impressive gameplay.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Shantae's odd in that I would both like her Smash but also think a character from Wonder/Monster Boy could potentially pull off the animal transforming gimmick better.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Sooo Kratos on Fortnite is available on the Switch & Xbox. This is the power of Fortnite. Master Chief is rumored to be coming too & I imagine he’ll be available on Switch.

I wonder what these guys talked about before/after the show?

 

[pupNapoleon]

Maybe it was that big back in the 2000s, but now I think it has simmered down a bit. I'd say it's about as big as Crash Bandicoot, Devil May Cry, and Doom nowadays. It's definitely big, but not HALO levels of big (not anymore at least).

Not really? Gee, no and Sort-of have been requested as early as Brawl, before the roster was the only thing people talked about.

Today I will remind them.

Spoiler: Today I will remind them.

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View attachment 294018
View attachment 294019

I'd also like to add that in Three Houses, while neither Byleth can become a dancer, the process in getting a dancer unit involves Byleth teaching a unit how to dance. So there's that.
In short, the following characters are dancers:

None of your referenced characters dance in moveset.

But more importantly- Lara Croft is from a bigger media franchise than the ones you listed. And I stand by the importance that she is in 3 movies played by 2 Oscar Winners.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Cloud? Bayonetta? Simon? Richter? Wouldnt exactly call anime-ish.

Did you seriously just call Mr. Spiky Blond Hair with a sword the size of a snowboard not anime?

 

[ZephyrZ]

They seem realistic to me. Bayonetta especially.

If I was meaner person this would be the perfect oppurtunity to make a joke about how Smash fams have never seen what real girls look like but I'l show constraint.

Maybe "anime-ish" isn't entirely the right term, but Bayonetta isn't exactly someone with super realistic porportions. And the flashy effects on her attacks are undoubtedly stylized. Then again anime is a really wide medium with a lot of different art styles.

Yet oddly, characters that are too cartoony but still human in design are also generally disliked. It's mostly chibi-esque designs, but something to note.

Yet the fandom (including this thread) is full of JRPG fans and characters like Sora are widely requested. They get a lot of vocal hate but a ton of support at the same time.

As opposed to more gritty realistic characters like Lara Croft, Chosen Undead and Resident Evil protagonists who tend to have more gritty art styles and abilities get mentioned from time to time but are still not widely requested. They'd probably all be warmly recieved but they aren't who the core Smash fandom is focused on.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Since nobody wants to start the Shantae discussion...

I’ll do it myself.

how would she play? What transformations would she use?

Elephant. Spider. Crab. Monkey. Mermaid. Harpie. Bat.
Basically, all of them. Because her pirate moves are mostly irrelevant, and can be tilt attacks.

 

[DX_E]

Sooo Kratos on Fortnite is available on the Switch & Xbox. This is the power of Fortnite. Master Chief is rumored to be coming too & I imagine he’ll be available on Switch.

I hear people saying "Samus and Master Chief in Fortnite. OMG!" and I can see it happening but right now it feels like no one ever said it ever but someone heard something somehow and now everyone's like "Can you imagine?! It's gotta happen!" Master Chief maybe.... but Samus? That would be crazy on all sorts of levels.

Concerning Ms Croft, I think Lara's starting to get more and more attention within the Smash fandom lately. I personally never thought about her being in Smash until the beginning of the year and now she's my second most wanted character. It's Tomb Raider's 25th anniversary next year and even the new mobile game announced brought a bit of attention to her....although a bit mixed but that's only because its a mobile game. I seriously love her classic look.

 

[SharkLord]

To be fair saying Angry Bird is deserving oly because "it's a famous mobile game" isn't cut it, as I say the term "deserving" game for me at least is a game that changes the genre for better and in the case of Granblue Fantasy and Gengshin Impact really impacted the state of mobile game as a whole and could compete with other big studio game while Angry Bird only living in their own bubble and still ** ** up for no goddamn reason. They didn't do anything phenomenal for mobile games or video game as a whole and they along with Subway Surfer, Candy Crush, Geometry Dash and Flappy Bird is just basically the equivalent of a viral game like Baldi's Basics and Doki Doki back in the day except Rovio still milking it dry even past their prime even go as far as removing the old games just so that people will download their newest game in the series. Overall the impact of Angry Bird is so miniscule or even non existence, the movies didn't helped them since if you want to count the movie in because they're now relevant again might as well put Qbert and that DDR girl from the Emoji Movie deserving then. While on the other hand you know that said game is deserving when Gengshin Impact is literally one of the nomination of TGA and the game that make core audience of video game soften up to the idea of a mobile game unlike back in the day when it gets so much hate with its free-to-play aspect and not so impressive gameplay.

I feel like Angry Birds is more along the lines of something like Castlevania, except with the timeframe condensed greatly due to the much shorter history of mainstream mobile games. It started out as a popular game in its respective domain, began branching out with bigger installments, and then took a nosedive as it's company started going for more "profitable" routes.

To say that Angry Birds has little-to-no impact is kinda sorta really underselling it. This is the game that has been downloaded over ONE BILLION TIMES-And that was back in 2012. Heck, Red was hung from a slingshot off the bloody Seattle Space Needle. It should also be noted that two movies all to itself that weren't universally reviled is a good deal bigger than a cameo in a movie that's already a massive crossover. Qbert's cameo in Ralph Breaks The Internet doesn't immediately make him more relevant because it was just a cameo, not the Qbert movie.

In all fairness Genshin had a multiplatform release, being on PC and the PS4 as well, and is also coming to Switch at some point. Though, I don't really know what game is the dominant platform, so...

 

[Commander_Alph]

I feel like Angry Birds is more along the lines of something like Castlevania, except with the timeframe condensed greatly due to the much shorter history of mainstream mobile games. It started out as a popular game in its respective domain, began branching out with bigger installments, and then took a nosedive as it's company started going for more "profitable" routes.

To say that Angry Birds has little-to-no impact is kinda sorta really underselling it. This is the game that has been downloaded over ONE BILLION TIMES-And that was back in 2012. Heck, Red was hung from a slingshot off the bloody Seattle Space Needle. It should also be noted that two movies all to itself that weren't universally reviled is a good deal bigger than a cameo in a movie that's already a massive crossover. Qbert's cameo in Ralph Breaks The Internet doesn't immediately make him more relevant because it was just a cameo, not the Qbert movie.

In all fairness Genshin had a multiplatform release, being on PC and the PS4 as well, and is also coming to Switch at some point. Though, I don't really know what game is the dominant platform, so...

I mean hey, having a mobile game appearing on a console is an achievement in it on itself right? Plus TGA nominate Gengshin Impact which is something rare for a mobile game to be featured.

 

[Spongeboob]

Popular opinion: I hope none of the Fire Emblem characters get cut, and if any of them do get cut, I hope Ike is one of them because his moveset seems generic for "burly swordsman" and I think he be gatekeeping a lot of other potential "burly swordsmen".

 

[RileyXY1]

Popular opinion: I hope none of the Fire Emblem characters get cut, and if any of them do get cut, I hope Ike is one of them because his moveset seems generic for "burly swordsman" and I think he be gatekeeping a lot of other potential "burly swordsmen".

I think that Corrin would be the most likely to go out of all Fire Emblem characters because Fates is not very well liked.

 

[ZelDan]

Popular opinion: I hope none of the Fire Emblem characters get cut, and if any of them do get cut, I hope Ike is one of them because his moveset seems generic for "burly swordsman" and I think he be gatekeeping a lot of other potential "burly swordsmen".

Ike is one of the most popular FE characters ever, so he'd be one of the worst to cut.

 

[SharkLord]

I mean hey, having a mobile game appearing on a console is an achievement in it on itself right? Plus TGA nominate Gengshin Impact which is something rare for a mobile game to be featured.

By that logic Angry Birds is still deserving, seeing as it's gotten console ports of it's own.

TGA isn't really the best way to to determine quality or impact, and this is coming from a Genshin fan. By that logic, Angry Birds still has that benefit anyways, since Angry Birds Star Wars got a nomination at TGA's predecessor, the Spike Video Game Awards.

Your post doesn't address any of the points I made in favor Angry Birds.

 

[Spongeboob]

Oh yeah? If he's so popular, then why wasn't he featured in this year's Choose Your Legends?
If he does stay (which I don't mind), I hope that they at least tweak him to be less generic.

 

[chocolatejr9]

View attachment 294033

Sooo Kratos on Fortnite is available on the Switch & Xbox. This is the power of Fortnite. Master Chief is rumored to be coming too & I imagine he’ll be available on Switch.

View attachment 294034
I wonder what these guys talked about before/after the show?

Oh boy, here come the strawgraspers...

Or what ever we call those people. Anyway, let's just wait and see.