Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[cashregister9]

I think there might be a slight difference in licensing a game's stuff for marketing and licensing a game's stuff for use in another game. Every example people are giving for Disney being generous with Sora are for marketing purposes.

You're saying that like Smash Brothers Isn't a giant Ad.

But I do get what you are saying.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

"Damn Disney is so stingy with KH"

Nope, it hasnt been taken off Amazon yet lol

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

You're saying that like Smash Brothers Isn't a giant Ad.

I just knew somebody was going to say that.

 

[Garteam]

I'm assuming that, if Sora is off the table because of Disney, it's due to one of three reasons:

• 1. They don't want Sora being depicted alongside realistic, modern military weaponry. While Clayton's shotgun may be cartoony enough to write around using creative camera angles and reactions from the characters who were shot, Snake bombarding characters with a barrage of tactical missiles may be a bridge too big to cross.
• 2. They don't want Sora fighting women who aren't overtly evil. Much like how Clayton's shotgun can be written around, any concerns of gender-based violence largely go out the window when Sora is fighting Ursula or Maleficent, two characters who are clear villains that possess magic abilities that would make them equal to Sora in a combat scenario. Characters like Peach and Wii Fit Trainer are relatively more realistic and don't have the obvious excuse of their unjust morality to justify violence.
• 3. They're fine with Sora engaging in either of the above actions, but don't like the implications it has on their other brands. Perhaps Sora playing hot potato with realistic grenades or joining the Jotaro Kujo School of Woman Respecting is fine in a vacuum. However, Sora getting into Smash means that many of Disney's other brands would be two degrees of separation from these acts, which may be too much to swallow. I could see some Disney CEO freaking out as they imagine Karen catching wind that wholesome Mickey Mouse is interacting with Sora from that awful Super Smash Bros. game where Little Timmy beat his sister's Mii with a hammer, thereby leading to lost sales.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm assuming that, if Sora is off the table because of Disney, it's due to one of three reasons:

• 1. They don't want Sora being depicted alongside realistic, modern military weaponry. While Clayton's shotgun may be cartoony enough to write around using creative camera angles and reactions from the characters who were shot, Snake bombarding characters with a barrage of tactical missiles may be a bridge too big to cross.
• 2. They don't want Sora fighting women who aren't overtly evil. Much like how Clayton's shotgun can be written around, any concerns of gender-based violence largely go out the window when Sora is fighting Ursula or Maleficent, two characters who are clear villains that possess magic abilities that would make them equal to Sora in a combat scenario. Characters like Peach and Wii Fit Trainer are relatively more realistic and don't have the obvious excuse of their unjust morality to justify violence.
• 3. They're fine with Sora engaging in either of the above actions, but don't like the implications it has on their other brands. Perhaps Sora playing hot potato with realistic grenades or joining the Jotaro Kujo School of Woman Respecting is fine in a vacuum. However, Sora getting into Smash means that many of Disney's other brands would be two degrees of separation from these acts, which may be too much to swallow. I could see some Disney CEO freaking out as they imagine Karen catching wind that wholesome Mickey Mouse is interacting with Sora from that awful Super Smash Bros. game where Little Timmy beat his sister's Mii with a hammer, thereby leading to lost sales.

Jotaro Kujo School of Woman Respecting

brb stealing this

 

[cashregister9]

I'm assuming that, if Sora is off the table because of Disney, it's due to one of three reasons:

• 1. They don't want Sora being depicted alongside realistic, modern military weaponry. While Clayton's shotgun may be cartoony enough to write around using creative camera angles and reactions from the characters who were shot, Snake bombarding characters with a barrage of tactical missiles may be a bridge too big to cross.
• 2. They don't want Sora fighting women who aren't overtly evil. Much like how Clayton's shotgun can be written around, any concerns of gender-based violence largely go out the window when Sora is fighting Ursula or Maleficent, two characters who are clear villains that possess magic abilities that would make them equal to Sora in a combat scenario. Characters like Peach and Wii Fit Trainer are relatively more realistic and don't have the obvious excuse of their unjust morality to justify violence.
• 3. They're fine with Sora engaging in either of the above actions, but don't like the implications it has on their other brands. Perhaps Sora playing hot potato with realistic grenades or joining the Jotaro Kujo School of Woman Respecting is fine in a vacuum. However, Sora getting into Smash means that many of Disney's other brands would be two degrees of separation from these acts, which may be too much to swallow. I could see some Disney CEO freaking out as they imagine Karen catching wind that wholesome Mickey Mouse is interacting with Sora from that awful Super Smash Bros. game where Little Timmy beat his sister's Mii with a hammer, thereby leading to lost sales.

Counterpoint:
Final Fantasy Brave Exvius is a Mobile game that has had Kingdom Hearts in the past and just got a new crossover 2 days ago

It has a PVP mode, where you fight against other players teams who can have other female characters of various morality (that sentence was weird)

It also had a crossover with Deus ex and in turn added some realistic guns. They also had guns in the game before the Deus Ex crossover.

That last point seems a bit too broad but I mean I have heard crazier things, but I don't think that would be the sole reason.

If Sora does not make it in I'm willing to bet it is because of $$$ and not much else

 

[SharkLord]

• 2. They don't want Sora fighting women who aren't overtly evil.

Sora is Kiryu question mark?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

• 2. They don't want Sora fighting women who aren't overtly evil. Much like how Clayton's shotgun can be written around, any concerns of gender-based violence largely go out the window when Sora is fighting Ursula or Maleficent, two characters who are clear villains that possess magic abilities that would make them equal to Sora in a combat scenario. Characters like Peach and Wii Fit Trainer are relatively more realistic and don't have the obvious excuse of their unjust morality to justify violence.

Sora can fight Selphie as one of the three Final Fantasy characters in the prologue of the first game (Tidus and Wakka being the other two).

 

[Michael the Spikester]

As someone mentioned in the previous thread. There's a possibility Disney wanted Nintendo to use Mickey instead leading to the deal falling through.

 

[cashregister9]

As someone mentioned in the previous thread. There's a possibility Disney wanted Nintendo to use Mickey instead leading to the deal falling through.

Is their any sort of evidence or precedent for that or is it just some guy on ResetEra saying it?

 

[I.D.]

I'll believe more in Sora when Square themselves manage to secure him in one of their own crossover games permanently instead of just being available for a limited time.

 

[Perkilator]

Sora can fight Selphie as one of the three Final Fantasy characters in the first game (Tidus and Wakka being the other two).

He can also fight Yuffie and Tifa in Olympus in KH1 & 2 (albeit the latter can only be fought in 2).

 

[GoodGrief741]

View attachment 293033
I need context for this

This could actually be really big. If a Disney property has actually gotten into Smash in some form, then Sora might have a clearer path than I thought, even with Disney characters. Obviously, he's not a lock or the most likely character ever, but he wouldn't be as much of an unknown variable.

To be fair they probably didn't have to license anything, they're just quoting the name of a videogame that they developed (and probably own at least partial rights to). Chronicle is basically Nintendo's resume, so it's as fair use as it gets.

This doesn't detract from all of the other tons of collaborations between Nintendo and Disney, from consoles and videogames to TV shows and movies. But it's worth clarifying.

As someone mentioned in the previous thread. There's a possibility Disney wanted Nintendo to use Mickey instead leading to the deal falling through.

I mean yeah, there's also a possibility that Nintendo wanted to get Tron and that deal fell through. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it makes sense, or that it should be seriously considered.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Sora can fight Selphie as one of the three Final Fantasy characters in the first game (Tidus and Wakka being the other two).

Selphie over here whiping people to death with a ****ing jump rope

 

[Mushroomguy12]

He can also fight Yuffie and Tifa in Olympus in KH1 & 2 (albeit the latter can only be fought in 2).

Yup. That one too.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

As someone mentioned in the previous thread. There's a possibility Disney wanted Nintendo to use Mickey instead leading to the deal falling through.

its just one goalpost move after another when people talk about Sora, isnt it?

 

[Brother AJ]

Heck, I don't even think Crash and Geno will be happening to be honest. Crash especially feeling people have been oversaturated his chances (Especially since this high demand only increased upon the reveal of the N. Sane Trilogy which was only three years ago, by that time the game was in development and he can't be compared since ones like Banjo, K. Rool and Ridley had been requested for nearly two decades (In K. Rool's cases a decade at most). Crash I think will, unfortunately, have to wait until Smash 6 to make his appearance.

Geno I think will return but as a premium Mii costume given the trend of returning SSB4 Mii costumes with Lloyd likely being next.

The biggest-tier character I could see at most is someone like Dante but that's it, who while I feel his chances have been overblown definitely has a better chance than those two.

A bit of a pessimistic view if you ask me. Demand for Crash was high around the time DLC was being developed. Even if everyone was decided before the demand for Crash was noticed, that isn't all that matters obviously. Where was the demand for Joker, Hero, Terry, or even Steve? Legacy counts for a lot of course. The devs could've seen the appeal of Crash finally duking it out with Sonic and Mario a long time ago regardless of vocal demand.

 

[7NATOR]

Actually I got to ask

What Characters would you consider to be Deconfirmed?

 

[Perkilator]

Actually I got to ask

What Characters would you consider to be Deconfirmed?

In general, AT's or post-launch Spirit Events during Vol. 2's lifetime

 

[SpectreJordan]

We wasn't promoted much there, with the Mii Fighters and Palutena getting much more screentime as E3 2014 primarily focused on custom moves.

The E3 news cycle isn’t JUST the Presentation. It’s everything they announce that week.

How Iconic and Known is Dante anyway?

Is he around Mega Man's Level (especially since DMC Outsold Megaman's Best Selling games, Multiple times)

Dante’s in a weird spot. I’d say he’s a mid tier character. He’s not as well known as but he’s also one of the biggest Japanese characters left.

I guess he’s sort of similar to Simon. Castlevania is very well known to anyone who knows about the NES era, but it becomes more niche as time goes on. The same could be said for Devil May Cry with the PS2 era; though DMCV has definitely put the series back into the spotlight recently.

yall underestimating Soras and KHs popularity in the west and in Japan lol

Sora’s in a weird spot when it comes to that. Id say he’s borderline between mid & “big”. The KH series is at 30 mil sales, but it’s incredibly well known. The mainline games are huge, but there’s only been 3 of them so the sales don’t match up to all the other series I mentioned. I feel if Nomura/Square didn’t screw around with handheld games for 12 years that the series probably would’ve sold a lot more by now.

So he’d be an insane Smash reveal, but he doesn’t really fit the category I was talking about. Atleast for now lol

I think everything was meant to be the big thing at E3 2018-all veterans returning, Ridley being playable, new gameplay changes.

Oh definitely, I was just using the term “big” to describe the various large franchises that have joined Smash almost annually at E3. The 2018 one was a bit of a stretch which is due to everything you mentioned.

 

[RileyXY1]

The E3 news cycle isn’t JUST the Presentation. It’s everything they announce that week.

Still, Pac-Man, despite how big he is, wasn't given that much fanfare at E3 2014.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I’ve had a lot of write ups about how Disney would be a problem but my opinion has changed for a while but I guess if you want to use that to assure oneself that your character you want is more likely than Sora then I guess you can.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Actually I got to ask

What Characters would you consider to be Deconfirmed?

Assists
Doom Slayer
Mai Shiranui
Mii costumes
Non-video game characters
Post-Pass 1 Spirit Events

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Assists
Doom Slayer
Mai Shiranui
Mii costumes
Non-video game characters
Post-Pass 1 Spirit Events

add also Ryza (interview) and Pokeballs

Tracer COULD also be deconfirmed if you count the one Blizzard interview as a deconfirm

 

[SharkLord]

Actually I got to ask

What Characters would you consider to be Deconfirmed?

Post-game Mii Costumes and Spirits, plus characters deconfirmed through interviews.

 

[PLATINUM7]

The E3 news cycle isn’t JUST the Presentation. It’s everything they announce that week.




Dante’s in a weird spot. I’d say he’s a mid tier character. He’s not as well known as but he’s also one of the biggest Japanese characters left.

I guess he’s sort of similar to Simon. Castlevania is very well known to anyone who knows about the NES era, but it becomes more niche as time goes on. The same could be said for Devil May Cry with the PS2 era; though DMCV has definitely put the series back into the spotlight recently.





Sora’s in a weird spot when it comes to that. Id say he’s borderline between mid & “big”. The KH series is at 30 mil sales, but it’s incredibly well known. The mainline games are huge, but there’s only been 3 of them so the sales don’t match up to all the other series I mentioned. I feel if Nomura/Square didn’t screw around with handheld games for 12 years that the series probably would’ve sold a lot more by now.

So he’d be an insane Smash reveal, but he doesn’t really fit the category I was talking about. Atleast for now lol



Oh definitely, I was just using the term “big” to describe the various large franchises that have joined Smash almost annually at E3. The 2018 one was a bit of a stretch which is due to everything you mentioned.

People out here still acting like only the numbered KH games matter. Also don't get the idea that the handheld titles were detrimental when 2 of them released on the DS.

 

[Perkilator]

add also Ryza (interview) and Pokeballs

Speaking of which, here are three Poke Ball summons I wish were playable: Meowth, Scizor and Mimikyu

 

[SNEKeater]

Dante is not even remotely on the level of Dragon Quest.
Some of you are on some weird ****.

In Japan? You're completely right.
Outside of Japan? Devil May Cry has definitely a bigger fanbase, being more popular in the West.
I know you haven't said this, but after reading some posts I'll take the chance to give my opinion about this lol:

Honestly, I think some people understimates his popularity. He's not as known as Ryu or Megaman, but I mean... we're talking about ****ing Ryu and Megaman, super iconic characters that are even fairly known among people who doesn't play videogames. Very few characters can't match up those 2 if we talk about being iconic or not.

99% of the available options to add are characters that will make some people react "Who's this?", so that isn't exclusive to Dante.

Not saying he's worldwide known, or one of the most iconic videogame characters. He's not. But personally, I'd put him in the same category as Snake. Yes, Metal Gear Solid is more popular, or at least it was, but sometimes characters are as known as their series. Sometimes even certain characters are more known that their home series. Morrigan is an example of that. Maybe a hot tak, but I don't really think people would consider Snake a more popular name than Dante if Snake never got into Brawl.

While DMC isn't the biggest series in terms of sales, we're talking about one of the most popular new IPs of the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox generation. And said generation brought a lot of new IPs. For a lot of people, that generation was the peak for videogames.

I also don't think you have to be a Capcom follower or a fan of action games to know or have heard about Dante at some point like, at all.
Most Playstation users have heard about him or saw him at some point, at least. And when I say "Playstation users" I'm not including the casual market, because if we add those people to speculation, almost everything we discuss would be meaningless.

Basically I think most people that has been playing games for quite the time, or anyone who frequently searches for gaming news and all, have heard about Dante or Devil May Cry at some moment. DMC has sold like 23 million games, but obviously, it doesn't mean that only people who has played a DMC game knows him. Between memes, crossovers and Dante's own popularity, he's fairly recognizable. I'd dare to say, for people who hasn't played DMC.

Coincidentally, I think Phoenix Wright is another good example of this. Ace Attorney has sold like, 7? million, if I'm not mistaken. Therefore, some people would probably consider him a niche character, but c'mon, anyone who's into this hobby and lurks the internet has probably heard about "this Capcom game about a lawyer with a stupid hairstyle".
Similarly, I'd dare to say a good chunk of those people has heard about this "wacky woohoo guy with white hair, red jacket and 2 guns who does over the top things".

 

[7NATOR]

Also I got to ask, Who Coined the Term "Deconfirm", and how did it spread

When I Look up Deconfirm on Google and Bing, It redirects to Smash Stuff. I feel like this is kind of a mystery

 

[PLATINUM7]

Also I got to ask, Who Coined the Term "Deconfirm", and how did it spread

When I Look up Deconfirm on Google and Bing, It redirects to Smash Stuff. I feel like this is kind of a mystery

Because the correct word is disconfirm.

 

[Lamperouge]

Also I got to ask, Who Coined the Term "Deconfirm", and how did it spread

When I Look up Deconfirm on Google and Bing, It redirects to Smash Stuff. I feel like this is kind of a mystery

That's why I say " disconfirm".

 

[PeridotGX]

I think there's a non-zero chance Mimikyu is one of the DLC fighters. According to the google poll, it's the most popular Pokemon not yet in Smash.

 

[7NATOR]

I would say Deconfirm is a better Word than Disconfirm though

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Actually I got to ask

What Characters would you consider to be Deconfirmed?

Any potential indie character and any Namco character

 

[Brother AJ]

That's why I say " disconfirm".

Hey, language evolves. shrugs

Any potential indie character and any Namco character

Interesting. Why do you think another Namco rep isn't happening?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hey, language evolves. shrugs

Interesting. Why do you think another Namco rep isn't happening?

Probably because two Namco costumes from 4, Heihachi and Gil, have returned. Of course it could be a character from a series not costumed, like how we got Capcom costumes before Ryu was confirmed for 4’s DLC

 

[kirbsmash]

I would say Deconfirm is a better Word than Disconfirm though

May I ask why?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Lets just settle with disconfirm then to finally put it to rest.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

So there's actually a reason for dis- over de-.

They mean slightly different things. Dis- refers to a reversal. De- refers to being distanced from something.

Deconfirm would etymologically refer to a distance from confirmation, probably something akin to a lack of clarity.

Hope that helps a bit.

 

[7NATOR]

May I ask why?

It sounds Better

The "De" in Deconfirm Sounds like it's more Emphasized than "Dis" in Disconfirm. Deconfirm sounds like you are Putting your All to Deconfirming the Character. Disconfirm sounds like you are reading something of your taxes or Something (and it's not something outragous).

Disconfirm could sound cool if you're Dissing the character perhaps.