Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Teeb147]

That sounds like a pretty clear deconfirmation for Ryza :/ Aahhh.. dang ;p

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

we know Nintendo already approached Disney once and was rejected

Im shocked people still take his speculation as fsct

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Also since we're on the topic of AT, I wanted to give my thought on them. I personally doubt AT will get promoted. Not because there's any rules that say "AT can't be promote", but just because of who the AT are. Like for example, I don't think Isaac is going to be playable, not because of his AT status, but because I don't see Nintendo choosing him. Maybe Golden sun will have a revival? But for now I'm sceptical and with no game officially announced, I'm still thinking he won't be a dlc. Even if he wasn't an AT like in Smash 4 I would think the same thing. Becuase I don't see Nintendo choosing a character that don't have at the very least, a game on Switch.

The only AT for now that I could see being maybe playable is Waluigi. I think waluigi's popular enough to, at least, being consider. My only problem with Waluigi is that there's already a lot of Mario stages and music, so I wonder what he would bring with him, but Mario have so much games that there's probably something they could do.

Another popular At is Shovel knight. While I don't think he's impossible, his popularity really peaked around 2015-2017, when Shovel knight was getting some big expansion (plague of shadows and specter of torment). This is also around the time when base game roster was chosen. After that Shovel knight got the King of cards and Showdown expansion. While they're not bad, I don't think they're big enough to really make Nintendo think "we should really reconsider Shovel knight!".

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Also, my point was that the general audience doesn’t show up to the spin-offs like they do for the main entries.

That's where Nomura gets ya. The spin offs are main titles

 

[PeridotGX]

Also since we're on the topic of AT, I wanted to give my thought on them. I personally doubt AT will get promoted. Not because there's any rules that say "AT can't be promote", but just because of who the AT are. Like for example, I don't think Isaac is going to be playable, not because of his AT status, but because I don't see Nintendo choosing him. Maybe Golden sun will have a revival? But for now I'm sceptical and with no game officially announced, I'm still thinking he won't be a dlc. Even if he wasn't an AT like in Smash 4 I would think the same thing. Becuase I don't see Nintendo choosing a character that don't have at the very least, a game on Switch.

The only AT for now that I could see being maybe playable is Waluigi. I think waluigi's popular enough to, at least, being consider. My only problem with Waluigi is that there's already a lot of Mario stages and music, so I wonder what he would bring with him, but Mario have so much games that there's probably something they could do.

Another popular At is Shovel knight. While I don't think he's impossible, his popularity really peaked around 2015-2017, when Shovel knight was getting some big expansion (plague of shadows and specter of torment). This is also around when base game roster was chosen. After that Shovel knight got the King of cards and Showdown expansion. While they're not bad, I don't think they're big enough to really make Nintendo think "we should really reconsider Shovel knight!".

This is where i'm at too. I don't think ATs are banned, but i don't think we're getting any.

At the start of the year, there were 4 upgrades I though plausible: Waluigi, Eevee, Mimikyu, and Spring Man. One got one upped by another character from their series, one probably would've happened by now (to tie in to the 35th anniversary), and the Pokemon hinge on them not going for a Gen 8 Pokemon, or no Pokemon at all.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Also since we're on the topic of AT, I wanted to give my thought on them. I personally doubt AT will get promoted. Not because there's any rules that say "AT can't be promote", but just because of who the AT are. Like for example, I don't think Isaac is going to be playable, not because of his AT status, but because I don't see Nintendo choosing him. Maybe Golden sun will have a revival? But for now I'm sceptical and with no game officially announced, I'm still thinking he won't be a dlc. Even if he wasn't an AT like in Smash 4 I would think the same thing. Becuase I don't see Nintendo choosing a character that don't have at the very least, a game on Switch.

The only AT for now that I could see being maybe playable is Waluigi. I think waluigi's popular enough to, at least, being consider. My only problem with Waluigi is that there's already a lot of Mario stages and music, so I wonder what he would bring with him, but Mario have so much games that there's probably something they could do.

While there are people trying to use Golden Sun trademark speculation to justify promoting Isaac, I think enough people being dissatisfied when the AT showed up in the 11/1 Direct, and being more capable of filling out a challenger pack than Waluigi, would help out. Golden Sun not having the biggest fanbase in the world shouldn't be an issue if ****ing Sakura Wars is considered a viable game to get a Smash rep.

 

[SharkLord]

While there are people trying to use Golden Sun trademark speculation to justify promoting Isaac, I think enough people being dissatisfied when the AT showed up in the 11/1 Direct, and being more capable of filling out a challenger pack than Waluigi, would help out. Golden Sun not having the biggest fanbase in the world shouldn't be an issue if ****ing Sakura Wars is considered a viable game to get a Smash rep.

In Sakura's defense, it's not like there's many other game characters popular enough to have six OVAs, two TV shows, a movie, and over 25 stage shows. That, and it managed to win official Sega polls for brand revival and general brand investment while still on hiatus.

However, unlike Isaac, Sakura lacks the capacity to stone people to death, so it all evens out

 

[RileyXY1]

In Sakura's defense, it's not like there's many other game characters popular enough to have six OVAs, two TV shows, a movie, and over 25 stage shows. That, and it managed to win official Sega polls for brand revival and general brand investment while still on hiatus.

However, unlike Isaac, Sakura lacks the capacity to stone people to death, so it all evens out

Although still, Sakura Wars hardly if ever gets localized. It would be a bad idea to put her in Smash, as hardly anyone outside of East Asia would know who she is.

 

[Commander_Alph]

I had a feeling that for a KT rep it was between Ryza, William from Nioh, or Ryu Hayabusa.

Pfft! Really!? Nioh?

Not being rude or anything but I just can't help that Dynasty Warriors or even the Warriors game gets ignored at this point when it is as big as three of that game, no hard feeling pls but I can't help it

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Pfft! Really!? Nioh?

Not being rude or anything but I just can't help that Dynasty Warriors or even the Warriors game gets ignored at this point when it is as big as three of that game, no hard feeling pls but I can't help it

Didn’t Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity just surpass all the Warriors games combined to become the single most popular game in the franchise? A Zelda game? Doesn’t that say a lot for the popularity of the franchise worldwide?

And you know you’re being rude. I dunno why, honestly since this is my opinion but whatever I guess. I actually am a big fan of Samurai Warriors but I don’t feel like it’s a franchise that will get a character in smash. There’s a difference there. Just because you have hope for Dynasty Warriors doesn’t mean I feel the same way. I don’t feel like any of the Warriors characters are all that likely. So yeah, the Koei-Tecmo franchise that has managed to take in over 5 Million copies sold over the course of 3 years as opposed to Dynasty’s 21 Mill over the better course of 23 years? Yeah, I’d say Nioh’s got a pretty good shot.

Inb4 “never been on Nintendo”

 

[Commander_Alph]

Didn’t Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity just surpass all the Warriors games combined to become the single most popular game in the franchise? A Zelda game? Doesn’t that say a lot for the popularity of the franchise worldwide?

And you know you’re being rude. I dunno why, honestly since this is my opinion but whatever I guess. I actually am a big fan of Samurai Warriors but I don’t feel like it’s a franchise that will get a character in smash. There’s a difference there. Just because you have hope for Dynasty Warriors doesn’t mean I feel the same way. I don’t feel like any of the Warriors characters are all that likely. So yeah, the Koei-Tecmo franchise that has managed to take in over 5 Million copies sold over the course of 3 years as opposed to Dynasty’s 21 Mill over the better course of 23 years? Yeah, I’d say Nioh’s got a pretty good shot.

Inb4 “never been on Nintendo”

I never meant to be rude at the start but I can't believe how funny it is that you have to rub it in the face to know to know which is likely, heck if only this time Ryza got bring up coincidentally when someone make a fake leak and put her name on there.

Oh and you know, there will be no Age of Calamity if it wasn't for Hyrule Warriors and there will be no Hyrule Warriors if there's no Dynasty Warriors it's all coming together in full circle cause Dynasty Warriors is like Koei-Tecmo's game that could branch to other big gaming company, Dynasty Warriors is like their bridge if it doesn't exist then there's no collaboration with Nintendo or Bandai Namco or even Square Enix to make a bond.


But this is just my opinion and again the last reply was meant to poke fun at Dynasty Warriors being curveball inclusion but I regret insult your preference on Nioh but hey, those 3 million didn't determine much you know

 

[SharkLord]

Although still, Sakura Wars hardly if ever gets localized. It would be a bad idea to put her in Smash, as hardly anyone outside of East Asia would know who she is.

This seems very subjective. Since when do you get to decide what's a good idea and what's not?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I have no idea what’s going on

 

[SharkLord]

I have no idea what’s going on

Regularly scheduled Adolposting

 

[Deleted member]

Pfft! Really!? Nioh?

Honestly, William is probably the biggest dark horse pick for a character from Koei-Tecmo. Nioh is a series Koei-Tecmo seems very interested in as it's a fairly fresh IP, and it was also reported Nioh 2 has reached over a million sales figures with the first game surpassing 3 million. It's probably their biggest game to market in western regions currently, and what better way to do it than having William in Smash?

Didn’t Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity just surpass all the Warriors games combined to become the single most popular game in the franchise? A Zelda game? Doesn’t that say a lot for the popularity of the franchise worldwide?

To be fair, Legend of Zelda has been around a lot longer and is far more popular than Dynasty Warriors. AoC outselling Dynasty Warriors 4 (the top selling game of the franchise) has more to say about the Musou formula finding great success in expanding to various franchises like LoZ and One Piece than it does Dynasty Warriors' popularity.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

While there are people trying to use Golden Sun trademark speculation to justify promoting Isaac, I think enough people being dissatisfied when the AT showed up in the 11/1 Direct, and being more capable of filling out a challenger pack than Waluigi, would help out. Golden Sun not having the biggest fanbase in the world shouldn't be an issue if ****ing Sakura Wars is considered a viable game to get a Smash rep.

One has multiple animated series, a movie, active live play shows, music by one of the most revered composers in japan, and mechanical designs by a famous gundam mobile suit designer.

The Other doesn't really have anything close

 

[latsmash]

Every AT that was revealed during the November direct was absolutely considered for base game or DLC. Although like many others have said, Waluigi is the only character I would be expecting. Isaac and Shadow could happen for a few reasons, but ultimately there is no exceptional benefit to developing them, besides a large fanbase.

 

[PeridotGX]

Every AT that was revealed during the November direct was absolutely considered for base game or DLC. Although like many others have said, Waluigi is the only character I would be expecting. Isaac and Shadow could happen for a few reasons, but ultimately there is no exceptional benefit to developing them, besides a large fanbase.

sakurai debated for weeks if Flies and Hand should become playable.

 

[Commander_Alph]

AoC outselling Dynasty Warriors 4 (the top selling game of the franchise) has more to say about the Musou formula finding great success in expanding to various franchises like LoZ and One Piece than it does Dynasty Warriors' popularity.

Well, the Musou formula is the thing that make Dynasty Warriors special, it's essentially a grounded version of hyper hack n' slash game like Bayonetta and DMC while also putting in the element of strategy in it and it feels really phenomenal that it could be reproduced and applied to various pieces of media and it really shows why I wanted it to be represented, of course with Dynasty & Samurai Warriors as well as Warrior Orochi being there instead of Hyrule Warriors cause even if it' the best selling the perception of the Musou game will change drastically that makes the original buried in the bottom of the barrel and makes it much worser than it is today.

 

[SirBillyBob]

Regularly scheduled Adolposting
View attachment 293051

Enough Adolposting, it's Zagreus' time to shine.

Also taking this moment to promote the new Zagreus support thread I made.

 

[GoodGrief741]

One has multiple animated series, a movie, active live play shows, music by one of the most revered composers in japan, and mechanical designs by a famous gundam mobile suit designer.

The Other has games that sold over a million copies

Fixed that for you

 

[Goombaic]

It is weird how the Warriors games are ignored by a vast majority of people when it comes to Koei Tecmo. I get that those games are fantastical interpretations of historical events and figures, but come on, the real Zhao Yun and Lu Bu weren't godlike warriors that killed thousands singlehandedly. Everyone will be able to make the distinction between a greatly exaggerated video game character and some historical Chinese figures.

Golden Sun not having the biggest fanbase in the world shouldn't be an issue if ****ing Sakura Wars is considered a viable game to get a Smash rep.

Not sure what point you're trying to make here. You're saying this like Sakura is a more popular request than Isaac, which isn't true at all. Unless it's just to dunk on the "third party > first party" mentality. Either way, what did Sakura Wars ever do to you?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Man, what I'd give for a Tomato Adventure remake.

**** that! LITTLE SAMSON!!

I might even argue Steve might be our only big reveal. Pretty much the Banjo of Pass 2.

Pfft, look at this guy, pretending Hero ain't bigger than Banjo.

yall underestimating Soras and KHs popularity in the west and in Japan lol

Nobody is underestimating Soras popularity. They're estimating Disney's willingness to work with Nintendo.

Smashboards stop going "but Disney" every time Sora comes up challenge

So it's a "stop saying the obvious, reasonable thing" challenge?

 

[Cosmic77]

Is it really a huge surprise that AoC is selling so well? One, it's a game based off of the most successful Zelda game of all time, and two, it's pretty much the only new title Nintendo has for the 2020 holiday.

Anyway, I think it's safe to assume KT is very pleased with these numbers. I don't know if their next project will be a third Hyrule Warriors, a second FE Warriors, or an experiment with another Nintendo franchise, but AoC has given them more than enough reason to commit themselves to the Zelda series. Hyrule Warriors is gonna become a spin-off series that gets a new entry every few years.

That's pretty good news IMO. If your favorite Zelda character doesn't get in Smash, at least they'll have HW to fall back on.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Is it really a huge surprise that AoC is selling so well? One, it's a game based off of the most successful Zelda game of all time, and two, it's pretty much the only new title Nintendo has for the 2020 holiday.

Anyway, I think it's safe to assume KT is very pleased with these numbers. I don't know if their next project will be a third Hyrule Warriors, a second FE Warriors, or an experiment with another Nintendo franchise, but AoC has given them more than enough reason to commit themselves to the Zelda series. Hyrule Warriors is gonna become a spin-off series that gets a new entry every few years.

That's pretty good news IMO. If your favorite Zelda character doesn't get in Smash, at least they'll have HW to fall back on.

My whole point was that the Warriors formula being used in other Franchises a la Dragon Quest, Zelda, Fire Emblem, One Piece, Gundam, and the sales of those crossovers I would say have outpaced DW as a franchise. At least from the perspective of what we’ve been given.

 

[Commander_Alph]

It is weird how the Warriors games are ignored by a vast majority of people when it comes to Koei Tecmo. I get that those games are fantastical interpretations of historical events and figures, but come on, the real Zhao Yun and Lu Bu weren't godlike warriors that killed thousands singlehandedly. Everyone will be able to make the distinction between a greatly exaggerated video game character and some historical Chinese figures.

It's actually pretty stupid to be honest with you when it comes the Warriors game being ignored just because it's based on a historical event and they think like it's the equivalent of history class which is not! For people who have played the original Warriors game know that Zhao Yun is not a handsome stud in his real counterpart. It's just that for Warriors game they depict their character on point if not greater, there's no giant ass monster not counting Orochi and Da Ji from Warriors Orochi, there's not a lot of ridiculously scantily clad female character with the exception of Diao Chan and there's no character that gender didn't match up with their real life counterpart unlike series like Fate or Basara and I hate it when everyone always dismissed s Dynasty Warriors character coming to Smash and say """""they are real people"""""

It's just that Koei always makes their game with a perfect atmosphere that isn't intentionally breaking the tension with the fanservice stuff going in through costume.

 

[Shroob]

I will say, I kinda it kinda funny however that none of the

Is it really a huge surprise that AoC is selling so well? One, it's a game based off of the most successful Zelda game of all time, and two, it's pretty much the only new title Nintendo has for the 2020 holiday.

Anyway, I think it's safe to assume KT is very pleased with these numbers. I don't know if their next project will be a third Hyrule Warriors, a second FE Warriors, or an experiment with another Nintendo franchise, but AoC has given them more than enough reason to commit themselves to the Zelda series. Hyrule Warriors is gonna become a spin-off series that gets a new entry every few years.

That's pretty good news IMO. If your favorite Zelda character doesn't get in Smash, at least they'll have HW to fall back on.

That's a bit weird since Nintendo said "It's probably not gonna be a series."

https://www.ign.com/articles/nintendo-not-expecting-hyrule-warriors-to-become-its-own-series-after-age-of-calamity

But at the same time, its got 3 ****ing games if you count the 3DS game separately so even Nintendo doesn't know what it wants.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Fixed that for you

This is ironic cause the guy that ****ed over many saturn titles in west and the saturn in general is the same guy that made Camelot leave sega for nintendo in the first place.

 

[Shroob]

To go off track a bit, I've seen people mention Disgaea in the past as a "Never happening but would be cool as an oddball pick"


And I actually am a bit confused.


The 6th game in the series is coming out to Switch the middle of next year outside of Japan, but the Playstation version.... isn't? I at first assumed it was due to Sony's pretty strict censorship policies, but I also heard that Sony and NiS have bad blood between the two companies or some ****?

 

[PLATINUM7]

To go off track a bit, I've seen people mention Disgaea in the past as a "Never happening but would be cool as an oddball pick"


And I actually am a bit confused.


The 6th game in the series is coming out to Switch the middle of next year outside of Japan, but the Playstation version.... isn't? I at first assumed it was due to Sony's pretty strict censorship policies, but I also heard that Sony and NiS have bad blood between the two companies or some ****?

NIS has spoken out about their problems with Sony before.

NIS America: Sony Isn't Friendly with Small Publishers Like Us

"They just care about big Japanese companies"

www.pushsquare.com

 

[Wunderwaft]

To go off track a bit, I've seen people mention Disgaea in the past as a "Never happening but would be cool as an oddball pick"


And I actually am a bit confused.


The 6th game in the series is coming out to Switch the middle of next year outside of Japan, but the Playstation version.... isn't? I at first assumed it was due to Sony's pretty strict censorship policies, but I also heard that Sony and NiS have bad blood between the two companies or some ****?

I never understood that too. Laharal would be a cool pick and even though Disgaea might be niche it's still a notable franchise that has two decades in it's history and is essentially the flagship franchise of NIS. The company is notable enough through it's many releases and games that were published under their names. They probably would be very easy to negotiate with as well since NIS is suffering from monetary problems.

As for Sony it's mainly because ever since the HQ migration to California, NIS has been having troubles releasing their games on Playstation, with them going as far to say something like this:

NIS America: Sony Isn't Friendly with Small Publishers Like Us

"They just care about big Japanese companies"

www.pushsquare.com

 

[Arcane Jill]

Would love to see Laharl as a dlc character, but with Disgaea games being rather niche, the series selling much better in the west than in it's home country, and NIS doing poorly to the point that they may be risking bankruptcy if their situation does not improve, I can't say I see him making it.

If he makes it, as somebody who has been playing Disgaea games for about 15 years now since I was in middle school, my head will explode Scanners style from sheer hype and shock!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

As ATs are being discussed, I'm going to give my 2 cents on the matter
I don't see ATs happening and so far the second pass only makes this belief stronger. Bomberman could have been promoted as a fighter in the second pass but he wasn't and became a really fancy Mii costume, so that feels like it hurts the chances, but Min Min really kills the possibility imo. Min Min was added because Yabuki wanted her and Sakurai's said he'd have gone for Ninjara otherwise, a dev request is one thing, but for the next option to also be a side character instead of the mascot begs the question why the mascot wasn't guaranteed the spot like every other franchise included in Smash. Either ARMS is so worthless they bended the rules, which is clearly not the case, or something else stopped Spring Man. That something being the AT. Sakurai doesn't see ATs as huge disgraces that humiliate fans but rather as more fanservice too so that doesn't help

 

[CapitaineCrash]

While there are people trying to use Golden Sun trademark speculation to justify promoting Isaac, I think enough people being dissatisfied when the AT showed up in the 11/1 Direct, and being more capable of filling out a challenger pack than Waluigi, would help out. Golden Sun not having the biggest fanbase in the world shouldn't be an issue if ****ing Sakura Wars is considered a viable game to get a Smash rep.

I mean, the fact that some users consider Isaac and Sakura a viable rep doesn't mean that I do. I think that both those characters have the same problem that there's some way more popular pick in their respective developper (Nintendo having Rex, gen 8 Pokémon, Waluigi, Zelda rep etc. And Sega having Arle and Kiryu).

 

[Dinoman96]

As ATs are being discussed, I'm going to give my 2 cents on the matter
I don't see ATs happening and so far the second pass only makes this belief stronger. Bomberman could have been promoted as a fighter in the second pass but he wasn't and became a really fancy Mii costume, so that feels like it hurts the chances, but Min Min really kills the possibility imo. Min Min was added because Yabuki wanted her and Sakurai's said he'd have gone for Ninjara otherwise, a dev request is one thing, but for the next option to also be a side character instead of the mascot begs the question why the mascot wasn't guaranteed the spot like every other franchise included in Smash. Either ARMS is so worthless they bended the rules, which is clearly not the case, or something else stopped Spring Man. That something being the AT. Sakurai doesn't see ATs as huge disgraces that humiliate fans but rather as more fanservice too so that doesn't help

But by that logic, why didn't they consider Ribbon Girl, the other mascot of ARMS, instead of just jumping straight to Min Min/Ninjara?

I just think Nintendo/Sakurai didn't really care and just wanted either Min Min or Ninjara because they were the more popular and diverse characters (they're the most popular female and male characters respectively, going by polls and the Party Crash Bash), even if they're "side characters" (even though Yabuki considers all of the ARMS cast to be the main character).

 

[7NATOR]

So do you guys Find Bomberman Being a Premium Miii Costume good for Assist Promotions, or Bad for Assist Promotions?

 

[Dinoman96]

So do you guys Find Bomberman Being a Premium Miii Costume good for Assist Promotions, or Bad for Assist Promotions?

I don't think it really means anything either way.

I just simply think the vast majority of assist trophy characters wouldn't be DLC anyways if they weren't ATs already. Like we've seen this with characters like Ray, Isaac in Smash 4, Saki, etc. Them losing out on their ATs just meant...they weren't in the game at all anymore (though at least Ray and Saki got costumes in Ultimate). Even if the likes of Waluigi, Krystal, Zero, Ashley, etc weren't assisted already, I don't see the Nintendo suits picking them for the FPs, especially considering that they don't really fit the current DLC model they've been doing with this game. Spring Man I think is the one character that could of been made an exception, but in the end, they decided to go with the more popular characters like Min Min, especially since they were working with Yabuki's mindset of everyone in ARMS being the protagonist.

As for Bomberman, I honestly don't really think his series is as big as people make it out to be, and really most of his presence in early Smash speculation was based around Super Bomberman R being a thing for Switch's launch. But since then the series has gone back into a passive state, so I don't think it's too hard to see why the Nintendo Shadow Council wasn't interested in it.

 

[7NATOR]

Well I do got to ask, How would you guys describe the Current DLC Model for Smash Ultimate? and do you think it Could be broken?

 

[Commander_Alph]

Well I do got to ask, How would you guys describe the Current DLC Model for Smash Ultimate? and do you think it Could be broken?

Model... you mean character pattern?

 

[7NATOR]

Model... you mean character pattern?

Yes, Something like that