Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Evil Trapezium]

I think Hayabusa and Rayman are two of the more likely third party characters to join Smash because of the companies relationships with Nintendo.

Ryu Hayabusa I could definitely see since Koei Tecmo co-develop Nintendo's main series franchises like Fire Emblem Three Houses. On top of that, they're a Japanese company so they are easier to work with.

Rayman however I'm not so sure. unlike Koei Tecmo, Nintendo and Ubisoft's relationship seems a lot more one-sided. Ubisoft seem to be in love with Nintendo but Nintendo doesn't return that same feeling.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think if Rayman not Playable, he should at least be a Mii Costume.

Same with Ryu as well

I could see it happening. If Bomberman doesn't need a single move with a bomb, then any character who fits a Mii might be a Mii.

 

[mariofan48]

Ryu Hayabusa I could definitely see since Koei Tecmo co-develop Nintendo's main series franchises like Fire Emblem Three Houses. On top of that, they're a Japanese company so they are easier to work with.

Rayman however I'm not so sure. unlike Koei Tecmo, Nintendo and Ubisoft's relationship seems a lot more one-sided. Ubisoft seem to be in love with Nintendo but Nintendo doesn't return that same feeling.

You say that but Nintendo let Ubisoft borrow the Mario IP and make a game, which isn't an IP that they give out to just anyone. Nintendo gotta have a lot of trust in a company to let them make a Mario game. Yes Nintendo has lent the Mario IP out to other devs but it was always for guest appearences in their games, but rarely has Nintendo actually LET those devs make their own game with one of their IP's. They also let Ubisoft use Star Fox in the Switch version of Starlink on Switch.

Also, a few years ago one of the lead designers on Rayman Legends from 2013 said that Nintendo of Japan was really really impressed with Rayman Legends and as a result Nintendo JP wanted to publish the game themselves there in Japan. And that's exactly what happened and it became a Wii U exclusive over there, and now the Switch version is a Switch exclusive in all regions. So I really don't see what you mean when you say that their relationship is "one sided"

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Rayman I feel is at most will be a Mii costume. Its just his lack of popularity in Japan and Nintendo's one-sided relationship with Ubisoft.

 

[mariofan48]

I think if Rayman not Playable, he should at least be a Mii Costume.

Same with Ryu as well

I'd be really surprised if Ubisoft doesn't get a rep, even if it's not Rayman (he is the most likely candidate out of their lineup, for sure though)

 

[mariofan48]

Rayman I feel is at most will be a Mii costume. Its just his lack of popularity in Japan and Nintendo's one-sided relationship with Ubisoft.

Again, I legit don't get this "Ubisoft's relationship with Nintendo is purely one sided" thing, as I already explained here: https://smashboards.com/threads/newcomer-dlc-speculation-discussion.453424/post-24172879

 

[Michael the Spikester]

A reminder that Rayman sells poorly in Japan and its lack of popularity there.

Also, remember how some of us were so certain of Travis (Myself included)? Look how that turned out.

 

[mariofan48]

A reminder that Rayman sells poorly in Japan and its lack of popularity there.

Also, remember how some of us were so certain of Travis (Myself included)? Look how that turned out.

Even if his lack of popularity in Japan affected his chances, the relationship between Nintendo and Ubi is not one sided, which is what we we're talking about.

Keep in mind I'm not saying that Rayman is a lock, but I think the relationship between the two companies there makes him one of the more likely to be added, even if the lack of popularity in Japan is going against him. Plus, alongside Crash he's one of the most requested platforming characters for Smash.

Also, I feel like lack of popularity as an excuse against Smash characters isn't really an excuse anymore, considering we got characters like Ridley, King K Rool, and Banjo who are nowhere near as popular now as they once were back during their original games. They all made it in because they've been requested for Smash for so long, but outside of the Smash community they just aren't as popular as I said.

Oh yeah, Terry Bogard too. Not many people in the Smash community really knew who he was but he still got in.

 

[Goombaic]

Also, remember how some of us were so certain of Travis (Myself included)? Look how that turned out.

That could apply to literally anyone, so I don't know why that matters.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

That could apply to literally anyone, so I don't know why that matters.

Similar to Ubisoft and Bayonetta. No More Heroes had a pretty good relationship with Nintendo being notably formerly Nintendo-exclusive not to mention Sakurai's friendship with his creator.

 

[mariofan48]

Similar to Ubisoft and Bayonetta. No More Heroes had a pretty good relationship with Nintendo being notably formerly Nintendo-exclusive not to mention Sakurai's friendship with his creator.

Isn't Nintendo choosing the DLC fighters though? I feel like if Nintendo is choosing the fighters they would go to companies that they are closer to rather than who Sakurai might be friends with.

 

[Dinoman96]

Ubisoft already got their dues with the Mii outfits.

 

[mariofan48]

Ubisoft already got their dues with the Mii outfits.

Honestly, I think if Rayman was NEVER planned to be added to the game as a fighter they would have given him a Mii Costume with the other Ubisoft costumes at the time due to how popular of a request they know he is. It would be weird to omit him from the Mii Costume lineup if he wasn't going to be a fighter, just so it would feel like his fans got something instead of just nothing.

Besides, saying it like it's a debt to be paid to them is weird, Nintendo doesn't owe them anything. They could still get a fighter but Nintendo doesn't owe them Mii Costumes or spirits or fighter slots or anything.

 

[StarBot]

and now the Switch version is a Switch exclusive in all regions

Yes, that's how Switch versions of games work

 

[mariofan48]

Yes, that's how Switch versions of games work

What I mean is, why didn't they release the definitive edition of Rayman Legends on PS4 and Xbox One? They only put it on Switch.

 

[7NATOR]

If I had to take a Guess, because the Ubisoft Costumes were in FP1 (though at the Tail end of it), I think Ubisoft Costumes were always Planned

Atlair and Rabbids are Easier Costumes to make than the Premium ones. the Premium costumes are fully modeled, so these Types of Costumes take longer to Make on average. I think Rayman likely would have been like Bomberman if FP2 was not a thing (where they are popular requests, but only had Spirits). Because FP2 is a thing, we could get stuff like Bomberman Costume

I think the fact the Ubisoft Costumes weren't held off for awhile might make Ubisoft character seem not in the Cards, and if Rayman is put in, he'd be a Premium Costume of some sorts

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Watch Rayman ends up a Premium Mii costume coming with Crash Bandicoot.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

You say that but Nintendo let Ubisoft borrow the Mario IP and make a game, which isn't an IP that they give out to just anyone. Nintendo gotta have a lot of trust in a company to let them make a Mario game. Yes Nintendo has lent the Mario IP out to other devs but it was always for guest appearences in their games, but rarely has Nintendo actually LET those devs make their own game with one of their IP's. They also let Ubisoft use Star Fox in the Switch version of Starlink on Switch.

Also, a few years ago one of the lead designers on Rayman Legends from 2013 said that Nintendo of Japan was really really impressed with Rayman Legends and as a result Nintendo JP wanted to publish the game themselves there in Japan. And that's exactly what happened and it became a Wii U exclusive over there, and now the Switch version is a Switch exclusive in all regions. So I really don't see what you mean when you say that their relationship is "one sided"

This is forgetting that Alphadream and the Mario & Luigi series existed. Not only that, Square Enix made Super Mario RPG. Intelligent Systems made the Paper Mario games and Camelot made the Mario sports series. Those were all Mario spin-offs of the same calibre as Mario & Rabbids, no guest appearances mentioned in any of them. Outside of the Mario series you have Retro Studios handling Metroid Prime and the Donkey Kong Country series, Sega with F-Zero GX and Platinum Games with Star Fox Zero.

I may have missed some but Nintendo handing Mario down to a company to make a spin-off isn't exactly anything new.

 

[mariofan48]

If I had to take a Guess, because the Ubisoft Costumes were in FP1 (though at the Tail end of it), I think Ubisoft Costumes were always Planned

Atlair and Rabbids are Easier Costumes to make than the Premium ones. the Premium costumes are fully modeled, so these Types of Costumes take longer to Make on average. I think Rayman likely would have been like Bomberman if FP2 was not a thing (where they are popular requests, but only had Spirits). Because FP2 is a thing, we could get stuff like Bomberman Costume

I think the fact the Ubisoft Costumes weren't held off for awhile might make Ubisoft character seem not in the Cards, and if Rayman is put in, he'd be a Premium Costume of some sorts

This is most likely the case. The way I see it after the Ubisoft Mii Costumes of Altair and Rabbids were negotiated for FP1, Ubisoft resumed their talks with Nintendo about Smash, and then there was a two way split down the road. Like, Ubisoft most likely brought up the idea of Rayman being added to Smash with them, and then from that point it was up to Nintendo to decide if Rayman would be added as a fighter, added as a Mii Costume, or not added at all. So even if he isn't a Fighter I definitely think he's going to be IN the game. Still, a fighter slot seems more likely to me personally but it really can go either way.

 

[mariofan48]

This is forgetting that Alphadream and the Mario & Luigi series existed. Not only that, Square Enix made Super Mario RPG. Intelligent Systems made the Paper Mario games and Camelot made the Mario sports series. Those were all Mario spin-offs of the same calibre as Mario & Rabbids, no guest appearances mentioned in any of them. Outside of the Mario series you have Retro Studios handling Metroid Prime and the Donkey Kong Country series, Sega with F-Zero GX and Platinum Games with Star Fox Zero.

I may have missed some but Nintendo handing Mario down to a company to make a spin-off isn't exactly anything new.

The only other instance of this I can think of is the indie dev who made Crypt of the Necrodancer being able to make Cadance of Hyrule.

 

[StarBot]

This is forgetting that Alphadream and the Mario & Luigi series existed. Not only that, Square Enix made Super Mario RPG. Intelligent Systems made the Paper Mario games and Camelot made the Mario sports series. Those were all Mario spin-offs of the same calibre as Mario & Rabbids, no guest appearances mentioned in any of them. Outside of the Mario series you have Retro Studios handling Metroid Prime and the Donkey Kong Country series, Sega with F-Zero GX and Platinum Games with Star Fox Zero.

I may have missed some but Nintendo handing Mario down to a company to make a spin-off isn't exactly anything new.

Aren't Alphadream, Intelligent Systems, Camelot, and Retro Studios are owned by Nintendo though

 

[mariofan48]

Aren't Alphadream, Intelligent Systems, Camelot, and Retro Studios are owned by Nintendo though

They are, yes.

 

[7NATOR]

This is most likely the case. The way I see it after the Ubisoft Mii Costumes of Altair and Rabbids were negotiated for FP1, Ubisoft resumed their talks with Nintendo about Smash, and then there was a two way split down the road. Like, Ubisoft most likely brought up the idea of Rayman being added to Smash with them, and then from that point it was up to Nintendo to decide if Rayman would be added as a fighter, added as a Mii Costume, or not added at all. So even if he isn't a Fighter I definitely think he's going to be IN the game. Still, a fighter slot seems more likely to me personally but it really can go either way.

They also still have the Smash 4 Model (that Ubisoft themselves gave to Nintendo), So unlike Sans and Cuphead, and Like Bomberman, Rayman has a Good Base Model to use for a Mii costume, or character if that happens

Watch Rayman ends up a Premium Mii costume coming with Crash Bandicoot.

If Shovel Knight is Not Considered a Premium Costume, I think Rayman would end up coming with a character already in the Game (another Promotion).

Personally it's just me, But I don't think Crash Bandicoot will happen this game

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Personally it's just me, But I don't think Crash Bandicoot will happen this game

Same here, I feel people oversaturate his chances alongside Dante due to the resurgence of his N. Sane Trilogy which was when this demand increased.

 

[mariofan48]

They also still have the Smash 4 Model (that Ubisoft themselves gave to Nintendo), So unlike Sans and Cuphead, and Like Bomberman, Rayman has a Good Base Model to use for a Mii costume, or character if that happens



If Shovel Knight is Not Considered a Premium Costume, I think Rayman would end up coming with a character already in the Game (another Promotion).

Personally it's just me, But I don't think Crash Bandicoot will happen this game

I still don't think anyone would have considered Rayman to be a Mii Costume if the Minecraft Mii's didn't have floating limbs. The only talk about him before that point was being added as a fighter.

Besides, I don't think anyone would be happy if everyone constantly told them that their favorite character would be a Mii Costume.

 

[mariofan48]

Same here, I feel people oversaturate his chances alongside Dante due to the resurgence of his N. Sane Trilogy which was when this demand increased.

Yeah Crash hadn't been demanded for Smash until the N-Sane Trilogy, so I actually agree on that. But Rayman has had that fan demand for Smash for like 6-7 years at this point.

As for Dante, I feel like Phoenix Wright might be a more likely Capcom character because of the history with Nintendo from 2001 on the GBA in Japan

 

[7NATOR]

Same here, I feel people oversaturate his chances alongside Dante due to the resurgence of his N. Sane Trilogy which was when this demand increased.

At the least, that did happen around the Time for Crash to be considered for FP2 (FP1 was too late around the time)

I'm gonna take a guess and say Nintendo might have approached Activision, or the Other Way around, but Honestly, considering the amount of Talks needed and Perhaps money that needs to be Payed out, along with all the Guidenlines that need to be Sorted out, I Personally Think Crash will sit out this game, but I think he's Very Likely for Smash 6 if he's not in ultimate

I still don't think anyone would have considered Rayman to be a Mii Costume if the Minecraft Mii's didn't have floating limbs. The only talk about him before that point was being added as a fighter.

Besides, I don't think anyone would be happy if everyone constantly told them that their favorite character would be a Mii Costume.

That's true. I don't think peole like hearing their favorite Character only in Relation to Mii Costume

It's just my Personal prediction, but I Acknowledge Rayman is always a Possibility and such though. yes

 

[I.D.]

Aren't Alphadream, Intelligent Systems, Camelot, and Retro Studios are owned by Nintendo though

They are, yes.

No they aren't. Only Retro Studios is owned by Nintendo.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

At the least, that did happen around the Time for Crash to be considered for FP2 (FP1 was too late around the time)

I'm gonna take a guess and say Nintendo might have approached Activision, or the Other Way around, but Honestly, considering the amount of Talks needed and Perhaps money that needs to be Payed out, along with all the Guidenlines that need to be Sorted out, I Personally Think Crash will sit out this game, but I think he's Very Likely for Smash 6 if he's not in ultimate

Not to mention the most requested characters ( ) that got in were due to decades of demand as oppose of a few years.

 

[mariofan48]

At the least, that did happen around the Time for Crash to be considered for FP2 (FP1 was too late around the time)

I'm gonna take a guess and say Nintendo might have approached Activision, or the Other Way around, but Honestly, considering the amount of Talks needed and Perhaps money that needs to be Payed out, along with all the Guidenlines that need to be Sorted out, I Personally Think Crash will sit out this game, but I think he's Very Likely for Smash 6 if he's not in ultimate



That's true. I don't think peole like hearing their favorite Character only in Relation to Mii Costume

It's just my Personal prediction, but I Acknowledge Rayman is always a Possibility and such though. yes

That's all I've ever wanted, Rayman being considered as a legitimate possibility. I legit feel like he's got the best shot he's ever had.

 

[7NATOR]

Not to mention the most requested characters ( ) that got in were due to decades of demand as oppose of a few years.

Actually though, that is something I'm Wondering

Crash I Assume was nowhere as Popular back then in Smash Speculation than he is now, But I still thought he had some sort of Dedicated Fanbase during Brawl and Smash 4

There's a Good Amount of Characters that have had their Popularity Surge in Ultimate's Lifecycle, besides the Huge Wants like Isaac, Geno, and the 3 Confirmed chracters in K.Rool, Banjo, and Ridley. Waluigi, Skull Kid, Shadow, Ashley among some other characters had their Popularity surge also

I'd say all 4 of these Characters were popular back then in Some aspects, but the heights they have now (Especially Waluigi), are somehting new to Ultimate. Is Crash the Same way?

 

[SpectreJordan]

Ryu Hayabusa I could definitely see since Koei Tecmo co-develop Nintendo's main series franchises like Fire Emblem Three Houses. On top of that, they're a Japanese company so they are easier to work with.

Rayman however I'm not so sure. unlike Koei Tecmo, Nintendo and Ubisoft's relationship seems a lot more one-sided. Ubisoft seem to be in love with Nintendo but Nintendo doesn't return that same feeling.

Pretty much this. I’m sure Ubisoft has wanted Rayman in since Smash 4 base game, but Nintendo’s constantly shafted them. There’s always the chance that they’ve changed their mind, but It just doesn’t seem like Nintendo cares that much.

Also, it’d be really weird to go from Steve to Rayman when it comes to western characters; especially since his Smash popularity has died down a lot. I feel they’ll go for bigger names like Crash, Lara Croft, Master Chief & Dovahkiin before smaller western series like Rayman.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Is it just me or is Smashboards dummy slow today?

 

[mariofan48]

Pretty much this. I’m sure Ubisoft has wanted Rayman in since Smash 4 base game, but Nintendo’s constantly shafted them. There’s always the chance that they’ve changed their mind, but It just doesn’t seem like Nintendo cares that much.

Also, it’d be really weird to go from Steve to Rayman when it comes to western characters; especially since his Smash popularity has died down a lot. I feel they’ll go for bigger names like Crash, Lara Croft, Master Chief & Dovahkiin before smaller western series like Rayman.

What do you mean Rayman's Smash popularity has died down a lot? I still see a lot of people on Twitter requesting Rayman just as much if not more than I do Crash nowadays. Also, there's a thread on here that has discussion specifically around Rayman. But I did a forum search for a Crash Bandicoot discussion thread and the only ones I found were completely dead because they haven't had any posts in them for a while. Also, there's no way that characters like the Dovahkiin, Lara, and Master Chief have been requested more than Rayman has for Smash.
Also:

Spoiler

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Is it just me or is Smashboards dummy slow today?

Nope, ain't alone.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

But I did a forum search for a Crash Bandicoot discussion thread and the only ones I found were completely dead because they haven't had any posts in them for a while.

The Bandicoot Returns (and It's About Time!) Crash's Nitro-Fueled Smash Thread

Crash Bandicoot Crashes the Party! Welcome to the official Crash for Smash support thread! This thread will serve as the home base for all of those who would like to see this iconic video game legend make a playable appearance in Super Smash Bros. That being said, let's take care of a few...

smashboards.com

Probably one of the more active character support threads as of current,

 

[mariofan48]

The Bandicoot Returns (and It's About Time!) Crash's Nitro-Fueled Smash Thread

Crash Bandicoot Crashes the Party! Welcome to the official Crash for Smash support thread! This thread will serve as the home base for all of those who would like to see this iconic video game legend make a playable appearance in Super Smash Bros. That being said, let's take care of a few...

smashboards.com

Probably one of the more active character support threads as of current,

Wow, the Crash thread and the Rayman thread started on the same day. That's really interesting.

Honestly, I think both of them deserve to be in.

 

[Thewafflemaker2000]

Don’t underestimate just dance, it is a major boost for nintendo’s relationship and no doubt sold alot of systems for nintendo

 

[mariofan48]

Don’t underestimate just dance, it is a major boost for nintendo’s relationship and no doubt sold alot of systems for nintendo

Damn I totally forgot about Just Dance!

 

[cashregister9]

I think it is important to realize...

A Good Relationship with Nintendo =/= A Character In Smash

Bandai Namco develops the damn game and they only have 1 character. It certainly helps but it doesn't just hinge on that.