Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Hope that we can see the next one in December + more First Party games coming. Also, hope that we all can get our characters playable! I’m rooting for my long-most wanted Geno; and also I think the rest are between Hayabusa, Crash, Lloyd, Rayman. A huge and epic surprise could be another from Zelda; and another from Sonic, between Tails or Eggman!

Best wishes!

Well according to everyone else on this site, Sora is never gonna happen anyway and hell, Laytons dead

 

[Ivander]

Gosh, replaying Smash Bros again and doing the Spirit Battles again, I once again state how I wish there was an alternate color customizer for Smash Bros. with the Spirit mode taking advantage of it with giving characters colors based on the Spirit art.

Like I know it's a very unlikely feature, as if they needed to get all of the companies/groups permission to have their music on Battlefield/Final Destination, more than likely they would need to get permission to allow their characters to be customized(especially considering Sonic, Pac-Man and the Square Enix characters). But just imagining the Spirit mode taking advantage of it has made me really want it.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Gosh, replaying Smash Bros again and doing the Spirit Battles again, I once again state how I wish there was an alternate color customizer for Smash Bros. with the Spirit mode taking advantage of it with giving characters colors based on the Spirit art.

Like I know it's a very unlikely feature, as if they needed to get all of the companies/groups permission to have their music on Battlefield/Final Destination, more than likely they would need to get permission to allow their characters to be customized(especially considering Sonic, Pac-Man and the Square Enix characters). But just imagining the Spirit mode taking advantage of it has made me really want it.

I really don't understand the appeal of something that would be so time consuming for such little payoff.

 

[Ivander]

I really don't understand the appeal of something that would be so time consuming for such little payoff.

Well, more immersion of the idea of fighting a Spirit possessing that character isn't a bad thing.

But think about it.
An alternate color customizer could potentially allow for more non-color alts. Like considering an alternate color customizer would allow for alts like Mario with a black-colored wedding outfit, or color alts for Alt Costume characters like with Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings, or bring back old colors like a red or green party hat for Pikachu.
If a color customizer were added, Nintendo could allow players to take advantage of it by giving some characters non-color costumes and people could use the color customizer to bring back their favorite color costumes back. Like how about Link in one of his other BOTW outfits? Or Samus using her actual Fusion suit? Or Shulk with one of his other armor sets from Xenoblade?
Like it wouldn't remove every character of all of their color alts(and depending on how it's done, would still allow for alot of customization, like keeping Mario's US Golf outfit and being able to customize the stars and stripes alongside the other colors in that alternate), but it could allow for some characters more non-color costumes.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Well, more immersion of the idea of fighting a Spirit possessing that character isn't a bad thing.

But think about it.
An alternate color customizer could potentially allow for more non-color alts. Like considering an alternate color customizer would allow for alts like Mario with a black-colored wedding outfit, or color alts for Alt Costume characters like with Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings, or bring back old colors like a red or green party hat for Pikachu.
If a color customizer were added, Nintendo could allow players to take advantage of it by giving some characters non-color costumes and people could use the color customizer to bring back their favorite color costumes back. Like how about Link in one of his other BOTW outfits? Or Samus using her actual Fusion suit? Or Shulk with one of his other armor sets from Xenoblade?
Like it wouldn't remove every character of all of their color alts(and depending on how it's done, would still allow for alot of customization, like keeping Mario's US Golf outfit and being able to customize the stars and stripes alongside the other colors in that alternate), but it could allow for some characters more non-color costumes.

I would just... rather that time be spent on almost anything else.

I also think, Smash is not like the types of fighting games that do this with their character customization/coloring.
It is often played in extreme chaos, with characters only semi visible from the far away camera on a large stage.
Making more color-bend costumes would only make this incredibly more confusing in too many scenarios.

 

[Gitaroo]

finally we can have this but in smash : )

It'd be cute idea/fun to play with but I can understand why they wouldn't include such a feature. Along with the recognisability/confusion thing above we also have online usage, garish colour combos, people probably making naked samus the first thing they do, the ability to alter colours maybe being in violation of usage agreements or the characters image,

Also currently smash uses a model/texture file per costume system rather than true 'palette swapping' so while people can recolour stuff easily by modding and editing the texture files getting it to work with an in-game colour editor would take some serious work especially with the more detailed characters who require more models/textures/colours. They'd basically need to rework all the textures and they'd be built from the ground up to accommodate the colours being edited in-engine. Would also probably increase load time.

 

[Ivander]

finally we can have this but in smash : )

I was honestly thinking more Soulcalibur, since it's Namco and Namco develops Smash Ultimate, and how simplified it handles it's colors when customizing their main characters' 1P/2P outfits. Basically, you mainly can only change the outfit colors. If the outfit has a changed hair color, only then can you customize the hair color. And if you want to have the dark/tanned/etc skin, like in the case of Villager or Pokemon Trainer, you pick the outfit with the skin color. You can only customize the outfit/hair colors, but it'll use the different skin color of the alt you picked. And in the case of some outfits, like ZS Samus, you basically take out the colors very similar to skin.

Like I'm aware of what people would try to do and I wasn't asking for something as advanced as Street Fighter's color system. That's why I was thinking something like Soulcalibur's color system, where one, it's Namco, and two, it's very simplified and can keep people from going too hectic/chaotic with colors.

Also currently smash uses a model/texture file per costume system rather than true 'palette swapping' so while people can recolour stuff easily by modding and editing the texture files getting it to work with an in-game colour editor would take some serious work especially with the more detailed characters who require more models/textures/colours. They'd basically need to rework all the textures and they'd be built from the ground up to accommodate the colours being edited in-engine. Would also probably increase load time.

Well, that's true, but I mean, Sakurai did re-work/re-texture all of the stages to work with Steve, so.........

 

[Gitaroo]

If anything SC is technically 'more' complicated (for one, it has a color picker with saturation values unlike SFxT's preset colors), but its a different beast due to how the models are handled and rendered. In modern SC and Tekkens, the character model is basically modeled 'naked' or with a base layer of clothing and the reason you can modify the parts like that is that the clothing models and additional 'parts' are usually completely separate from the characters models. Smash characters are usually modelled as a full piece and loaded as such as well. which is why each 'colour' is a separate model. You could restrict which parts are colourable but that doesn't really make it easier on the dev side for this hypothetical editor.

The stage thing is programming wise to accommodate a character's moves and what values to return which is pretty different from remaking basically all the character textures, programming in a thing to discern which colours are allocated to what in the texture files (some textures are also things like logos , patterns, and images so you cant just recolour the whole texture) and making an in-engine color handler. Not saying it's impossible, just that it's a definite undertaking and basically a complete overhaul of the engine and how it handles rendering textures, so if they were ever planning to do this they'd have to be developing with the intent to do this and accommodate this from the start.

As a further example, here's an image of one of Tekken 7's outfit textures, which similarly to SC is a FG built with recolouring in mind. See how everything is uniformly monochrome, kind of organized into something like a grid?
As a comparison, here's an example of a smash texture:

Not a fighter, and from the prev game but I think he makes for a good example. Note the more liberal use of gradients, patterns and designs, more strewn around layout, and all sorts of things that would make palette mapping difficult. To work this into resembling the above for machine colour mapping would basically require remaking it and then reprogramming the engine to tell it how to apply colour and texture onto it.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

If anything SC is technically 'more' complicated, but its a different beast due to how the models are handled and rendered. In modern SC and Tekkens, the character model is basically modeled 'naked' or with a base layer of clothing and the reason you can modify the parts like that is that the clothing models and additional 'parts' are usually completely separate from the characters models. Smash characters are usually modelled as a full piece and loaded as such as well. which is why each 'colour' is a separate model. You could restrict which parts are colourable but that doesn't really make it easier on the dev side for this hypothetical editor.

The stage thing is programming wise to accommodate a character's moves and what values to return which is pretty different from remaking basically all the character textures, programming in a thing to discern which colours are allocated to what in the texture files (some textures are also things like logos , patterns, and images so you cant just recolour the whole texture) and making an in-engine color handler. Not saying it's impossible, just that it's a definite undertaking and basically a complete overhaul of the engine and how it handles rendering textures, so if they were ever planning to do this they'd have to be developing with the intent to do this and accommodate this from the start.

As a further example, here's an image of one of Tekken 7's outfit textures, which similarly to SC is a FG built with recolouring in mind. See how everything is uniformly monochrome, kind of organized into something like a grid?
As a comparison, here's an example of a smash texture:

Not a fighter, and from the prev game but I think he makes for a good example. Note the more liberal use of gradients, patterns and designs, more strewn around layout, and all sorts of things that would make palette mapping difficult. To work this into resembling the above for machine colour mapping would basically require remaking it and then reprogramming the engine to tell it how to apply colour and texture onto it.

I believe Smash does fighters closer to your Tekken example than your Skull Kid example. At least in Smash 4, there was one sheet that had colors, but didn't handle shading gradients. That was on a different sheet and was combined with textures and how shiny things were. The two were overlaid to create this kind of look. From what I saw, most of the colors were pretty uniform. Mario's shirt was just a single shade of red on the page. I'm guessing they didn't want to make the Wii U process extra texture stuff for assist trophies and that's the reason why this Skull Kid sheet is doing all the shading and texture work.

The only reason I know is because I was looking into modding at one point. Never actually went through with it.

That said, I don't really think a color customization tool would be Nintendo's MO, with how protective they are about their IPs.

 

[Powerman293]

Been gone for a few weeks. Anything interesting happens in the past 3 weeks or so?

 

[Staarih]

How do people here see the chances of having a reveal soon rather than 2021? And what characters do you expect in the remaining spots?

I think TGA is the best bet, but even then it may not be a Smash reveal but something else from Nintendo (I just hope they give us something). Other than that, probably January. Personally I feel like I'm falling more and more off the Smash train and don't really care who we get for the rest of the pass, I'll likely be content with all of them. Nintendo's other future games and projects are what interest me more at this moment.

 

[Gitaroo]

I believe Smash does fighters closer to your Tekken example than your Skull Kid example. At least in Smash 4, there was one sheet that had colors, but didn't handle shading gradients. That was on a different sheet and was combined with textures and how shiny things were. The two were overlaid to create this kind of look. From what I saw, most of the colors were pretty uniform. Mario's shirt was just a single shade of red on the page. I'm guessing they didn't want to make the Wii U process extra texture stuff for assist trophies and that's the reason why this Skull Kid sheet is doing all the shading and texture work.

The only reason I know is because I was looking into modding at one point. Never actually went through with it.

That said, I don't really think a color customization tool would be Nintendo's MO, with how protective they are about their IPs.

Yeah there is indeed a separate 'Mask' file but the main texture for colors and details are handled like this. The complexity depends on the characters, and yeah the Skull Kid was just an example bc Fighters usually have multiple Texture Files but they can be less, equally or more complicated. For example Mario's Shirt or like, a character's hair might be one uniform file but then you have stuff like Ike's clothes or his pauldron

 

[Shroob]

I think TGA is the best bet, but even then it may not be a Smash reveal but something else from Nintendo (I just hope they give us something). Other than that, probably January. Personally I feel like I'm falling more and more off the Smash train and don't really care who we get for the rest of the pass, I'll likely be content with all of them. Nintendo's other future games and projects are what interest me more at this moment.

Welcome to enlightenment.

 

[ZelDan]

I'm 50/50 on us getting CP8 during December/TGAs or January.

I'm not even going to bother to guess who the remaining characters are.

 

[Staarih]

In other news, HW: AoC has already shipped 3million copies worldwide, breaking records for Musou/Warriors titles.

Switch『ゼルダ無双 厄災の黙示録』全世界の累計出荷本数が300万本突破

1タイトルでの300万本の出荷達成は『無双』シリーズとしては初の記録。#ゼルダ無双
https://t.co/e9j6tArAQY pic.twitter.com/50kQ2zfCst

— ファミ通.com (@famitsu) November 24, 2020

Great to see that Koei Tecmo x Nintendo relationship thriving.

Ryu Hayabusa in Smash when

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yeah, Square themselves aren't stingy.

A lot of the people they hire are.

If anything, they're one of the least stingy companies around since they let their staff have ownership rights over whatever they make.

Pretty ironic, huh?

People always forget that these spin-offs game that KT made with Nintendo are all tied into the Warriors game, with the new installment of the OG series going to be released sometime in early 2021 is pretty odd to reveal Hayabusa when KT is on a spree with the Warriors game.

That same logic made some people here believe that Nintendo leaking SNK's name meant Nakoruru would be our 4th FP1 rep due to SNK's latest game being a Samurai Shodown game, and we got Terry.

So yeah, just because Koei is on a roll with Musou games doesn't mean a hypothetical KT rep has to come from Musou games.

 

[PeridotGX]

In other news, HW: AoC has already shipped 3million copies worldwide, breaking records for Musou/Warriors titles.

Switch『ゼルダ無双 厄災の黙示録』全世界の累計出荷本数が300万本突破

1タイトルでの300万本の出荷達成は『無双』シリーズとしては初の記録。#ゼルダ無双
https://t.co/e9j6tArAQY pic.twitter.com/50kQ2zfCst

— ファミ通.com (@famitsu) November 24, 2020

Great to see that Koei Tecmo x Nintendo relationship thriving.

Ryu Hayabusa in Smash when

Conquest 2 please

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It'll all come together when Koei Tecmo and Nintendo reveal Hayabusa as a playable fighter in Smash... and Hyrule Warriors somehow.

 

[3BitSaurus]

It'll all come together when Koei Tecmo and Nintendo reveal Hayabusa as a playable fighter in Smash... and Hyrule Warriors somehow.

Just say that Hayabusa is an ally summoned by the Sheikah or something. I wouldn't complain.

 

[Commander_Alph]

If anything, they're one of the least stingy companies around since they let their staff have ownership rights over whatever they make.

Pretty ironic, huh?


That same logic made some people here believe that Nintendo leaking SNK's name meant Nakoruru would be our 4th FP1 rep due to SNK's latest game being a Samurai Shodown game, and we got Terry.

So yeah, just because Koei is on a roll with Musou games doesn't mean a hypothetical KT rep has to come from Musou games.

That also could apply to Hayabusa with all of this 'rumor' floating around of the Sigma Trilogy coming to Switch which has yet been proven right or wrong, I mean AT LEAST a new Dynasty Warriors game is confirmed coming out on this specific year which might just so happened to be same year that people always talking about when it comes the reveal of FP9.

Also, I wouldn't boastfully say that IF we get hypothetically one Warriors game and to be frank, the second is coming soon so I don't think the argument for 'latest game' applied as there is not much news when it comes to SNK game since they barely active when announcing new project and compare it to someone like KT.

Just like I said Hayabusa literally suffer the same fate as Bomberman where their existence as game is vastly overblown that ultimately didn't change anything and Hayabusa feels like a one-off character.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hey so the paper Mario Origami King and octopath traveler spirits are being added to the spirit board rotation permanently

when event spirits are permanently added to the rotation, something’s gonna happen soon right?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Hey so the paper Mario Origami King and octopath traveler spirits are being added to the spirit board rotation permanently

when event spirits are permanently added to the rotation, something’s gonna happen soon right?

Deconfirmation on the horizon?

Finally speculation we could talk about then.

 

[Staarih]

Hey so the paper Mario Origami King and octopath traveler spirits are being added to the spirit board rotation permanently

when event spirits are permanently added to the rotation, something’s gonna happen soon right?

When was the last time event-exclusive spirits were added to permanent rotation? The Secret of Mana spirits were added in August I think and we had the Paper Mario spirit event shortly after. Did I miss something in between?

So maybe there's potential for a future spirit event with new spirits. Which I think is a given at some point anyway.

 

[Perkilator]

In other news, HW: AoC has already shipped 3million copies worldwide, breaking records for Musou/Warriors titles.

Switch『ゼルダ無双 厄災の黙示録』全世界の累計出荷本数が300万本突破

1タイトルでの300万本の出荷達成は『無双』シリーズとしては初の記録。#ゼルダ無双
https://t.co/e9j6tArAQY pic.twitter.com/50kQ2zfCst

— ファミ通.com (@famitsu) November 24, 2020

Great to see that Koei Tecmo x Nintendo relationship thriving.

Ryu Hayabusa in Smash when

I wonder of this means we might get a Three Houses Warriors at some point.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Koei Tecmo decides to take advantage of the Warriors crossover games' momentum by developing one that features the most violent and destructive Nintendo character of them all.

Spoiler

Get ready for Kirby Star Warriors, coming in 2022.

 

[Staarih]

I wonder of this means we might get a Three Houses Warriors at some point.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised (KT was involved in TH after all), but seeing how much flack the last Fire Emblem Warriors got for being Awakening/Fates centric, I dunno.

If KT does keep on doing Nintendo Warriors, Xenoblade seems like the perfect fit tbh.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That also could apply to Hayabusa with all of this 'rumor' floating around of the Sigma Trilogy coming to Switch which has yet been proven right or wrong

Actually the source of that leak is a ratings board and many games have been leaked in the same manner, No More Heroes 1 and CastleVania Requiem being the first to come to mind

 

[Commander_Alph]

Actually the source of that leak is a ratings board and many games have been leaked in the same manner, No More Heroes 1 and CastleVania Requiem being the first to come to mind

Even if that's the case we still haven't gotten an exact confirmation on the game's release date.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Even if that's the case we still haven't gotten an exact confirmation on the game's release date.

That's fair, though NMH was leaked 2 months in advance by rating boards while CV was 1 month in advance, so the Sigma trilogy's gone 2 months without an announcement since, though retailer leaks say it'd come out in March so it shouldn't be too much of a wait for the official announcement

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

If the NG trilogy is legit, I suspect it'll be a part of the flood of game announcements to come in January after the holidays.

 

[Perkilator]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised (KT was involved in TH after all), but seeing how much flack the last Fire Emblem Warriors got for being Awakening/Fates centric, I dunno.

I'm not sure that the Awakening/Fates-centric nature will really affect a Three Houses Warriors, since it'd likely have nothing but Three Houses characters.

 

[SpectreJordan]

At this point, I think we’re out of luck for another Smash reveal this year. I guess there’s a chance at TGAs, but I think Nintendo would rather have a game trailer there. But hey, we get 4 characters & reveals next year!

I also imagine we’ll see some Warriors content in Ultimate eventually. Either a spirit event or Mii costume though. I really can’t imagine any Koei character getting in before Ryu. It’s like if Mega Man wasn’t the first Capcom character.

 

[Perkilator]

At this point, I think we’re out of luck for another Smash reveal this year. I guess there’s a chance at TGAs, but I think Nintendo would rather have a game trailer there. But hey, we get 4 characters & reveals next year!

I also imagine we’ll see some Warriors content in Ultimate eventually. Either a spirit event or Mii costume though. I really can’t imagine any Koei character getting in before Ryu. It’s like if Mega Man wasn’t the first Capcom character.

Game trailers can co-exist with a Smash reveal at TGA, I'm pretty sure (not that I necessarily expect the latter).

Also, I agree with Warriors possibly getting a Spirit Event.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised (KT was involved in TH after all), but seeing how much flack the last Fire Emblem Warriors got for being Awakening/Fates centric, I dunno.

If KT does keep on doing Nintendo Warriors, Xenoblade seems like the perfect fit tbh.

If we are having a Warriors game like AoC that focuses on a war from long before the mainline games, I demand to see the Great Pokemon War!

 

[mariofan48]

I think Hayabusa and Rayman are two of the more likely third party characters to join Smash because of the companies relationships with Nintendo.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think Hayabusa and Rayman are two of the more likely third party characters to join Smash because of the companies relationships with Nintendo.

I'm confused by your statement.
Not the one I quoted, but the one in your signature about Master Chief being number 117. Is that to say you don't see him actually happening without 8 more fighters passes?

 

[mariofan48]

I'm confused by your statement.
Not the one I quoted, but the one in your signature about Master Chief being number 117. Is that to say you don't see him actually happening without 8 more fighters passes?

Oh, no. I just put 117 in the signature because that's Master Chief's Spartan number, not because I want him to be fighter 117 lol.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Oh, no. I just put 117 in the signature because that's Master Chief's Spartan number, not because I want him to be fighter 117 lol.

Ah- I wouldn't have inherently thought so but Rayman was listed 78, which is the next fighter.

And I wouldn't be opposed to getting 120 fighters.
I mean, we likely won't make it to 100 without a Hannukah miracle, but I'd still enjoy it.
I've got so many characters I want to see...

 

[7NATOR]

I think if Rayman not Playable, he should at least be a Mii Costume.

Same with Ryu as well

 

[chocolatejr9]

Just a head's up, apparently they're re-adding the Octopath Traveler and Origami King Spirits. I don't know if this is meant to coorolate with something, but I figured I'd mention it.