Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

Sakurai: "Let's take Mario, and give him a worse recovery, and a slow speed."

"In exchange, his attacks will be much more powerful..."

"...ultimately lowering his overall damage output."

"wait...ultimately lowering his overall damage output?"


On Rails/3rd Person Shooter?

No I'm talking about the Game Boy game, Myths and Monsters

 

[7NATOR]

Platformers and Fighting games are the main genre's that Smash takes it's Mechanics from, So there would be alot of crossover with characters from those Genres. Honestly I'm Surprised we only have 4 Fighting game characters

RPG's and how they are structured give alot of Room for alot of Character Development and World Building and Story and such like that, and that means more chances for people to like the characters. Because Smash is a Character based game, and also brings the entire world to Smash in form of Stages and such, RPG's go hand in hand

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Platformers and Fighting games are the main genre's that Smash takes it's Mechanics from, So there would be alot of crossover with characters from those Genres. Honestly I'm Surprised we only have 4 Fighting game characters

To be fair, fighting games are a fairly niche genre and a somewhat unsteady one at that. We also didn't start getting third party characters before Brawl or fighting game characters until Smash 4, so we haven't had a lot of time for the representation to be built up. Four characters in two games isn't a bad start.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I see we're talking about fighting games as a genre.

This makes me want to gush about Sol Badguy and why I hope he gets into Smash, as unlikely as it is. Guilty Gear has been around for a long time and is one of Arc System Works flagship series for them and in the past few years, they kept getting a lot of notability and hits with their solid gameplay. And honestly speaking, Sol would be awesome to see in Smash with his moveset and how it could be incorporated into Smash. Also the music will be a huge highlight.


I just had to gush about Guilty Gear and Sol right now, even if he isn't too likely for Ultimate.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

To be fair, fighting games are a fairly niche genre and a somewhat unsteady one at that. We also didn't start getting third party characters before Brawl or fighting game characters until Smash 4, so we haven't had a lot of time for the representation to be built up. Four characters in two games isn't a bad start.

Which is notable since Nintendo's fighting game roster is ARMS and...Joy Mech Fight. There's probably one or two more but that's not much, and ARMS is incredibly new at that.

 

[Curious Villager]

Which is notable since Nintendo's fighting game roster is ARMS and...Joy Mech Fight. There's probably one or two more but that's not much, and ARMS is incredibly new at that.

What about Punch Out?

Edit: Looking up, guess that one's mostly considered a Sports or puzzle/rhythm game...

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

What about Punch Out?

I'd say it's a different thing, but I don't know what I'd call it. While it's about fighting, it isn't a competitive PvP game, which is what the genre generally refers to. It's kind of like how the RPG genre tends to be more about leveling mechanics or a combat system and less about the fact that the player is roleplaying a scenario.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Mario and Pokemon are primarily platformers and RPGs. Just because they don't exclusively do 1 thing doesn't mean that the majority of their games aren't platformers and RPGs.

Majority? I'm not sure I agree with that. It is how they originated, for sure. Mario literally has separate sales charts for the party/sports games and the kart games. Mario Kart is still the top selling game on the Switch. Pokemon GO is the highest money maker for Nintendo. At what point are they not a specific genre? I don't understand the logic.

The original Kid Icarus is a platformer, which is why I counted Pit and Palu but not Dark Pit. I can't tell you what the second game was, but Sakurai seemingly doesn't know what it is either. Metroid games are still platformers as you need to jump around constantly, they just have a different design philosophy than traditional platformers. Wario was included because he started out with platformers and while he focuses on the minigame stuff, that doesn't erase Wario Land or anything

If everything that has platforms is a platformer, then I guess every gaming character is an RPG, because you are pretending to play a role in the game. This is the equivalent.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Creator Posting because I'm Bored.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Creator Posting because I'm Bored.

Was this meant for the social thread or is there some context I'm missing?

 

[SharkLord]

I see we're talking about fighting games as a genre.

This makes me want to gush about Sol Badguy and why I hope he gets into Smash, as unlikely as it is. Guilty Gear has been around for a long time and is one of Arc System Works flagship series for them and in the past few years, they kept getting a lot of notability and hits with their solid gameplay. And honestly speaking, Sol would be awesome to see in Smash with his moveset and how it could be incorporated into Smash. Also the music will be a huge highlight.


I just had to gush about Guilty Gear and Sol right now, even if he isn't too likely for Ultimate.

Guilty Gear, n.
Street Fighter but there is no brain, only guitar

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

If everything that has platforms is a platformer, then I guess every gaming character is an RPG, because you are pretending to play a role in the game. This is the equivalent.

Conversely, if everything that platforms isn't a platformer, then not everything with RPG mechanics is an RPG. And if not everything with RPG mechanics is an RPG, then Fire Emblem isn't an RPG since a lot of its DNA comes from strategy games. If Fire Emblem and Pokemon don't represent RPGs in Smash, then we only have about 6 RPG reps in Smash. That's not a lot.

I don't even know what the argument is about anymore. Its just been bugging me that people are being picky about what qualifies as a platformer, but are lumping everything into the RPG genre.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I actually think BlazBlue/Guilty Gear is the most likely fighting game to get a rep currently.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Litchee or Konoe would be cool. Litchee probably wouldn't be allowed. Konoe might be.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Conversely, if everything that platforms isn't a platformer, then not everything with RPG mechanics is an RPG. And if not everything with RPG mechanics is an RPG, then Fire Emblem isn't an RPG since a lot of its DNA comes from strategy games. If Fire Emblem and Pokemon don't represent RPGs in Smash, then we only have about 6 RPG reps in Smash. That's not a lot.

I don't think every game with a platform is a platformer, and I don't think every game where you play as a character is an RPG. That was the point...

I don't even know what the argument is about anymore. Its just been bugging me that people are being picky about what qualifies as a platformer, but are lumping everything into the RPG genre.

I completely classify Zelda as an RPG- but that wasn't in the list.
I think the last comment you made strictly refers to me. I don't think everything is an RPG. And I don't think we actually have many platform reps in Smash, either. I think I'm being quite fair- I don't even count Mario nor Pokemon in either category.

Though my thought process for the day has just been that we, mostly, discuss RPGs in this thread, and this board.

Shoutout to the Falcom conversation though- I didn't know the company, and I did a lot of research after that interesting conversation.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Regarding BlazBlue, do you guys think the series is old enough to establish Ragna as the mascot/protagonist or would it be possible we could get another Min Min scenario?

 

[Munchi]

Regarding BlazBlue, do you guys think the series is old enough to establish Ragna as the mascot/protagonist or would it be possible we could get another Min Min scenario?

Definitely BlazBlue is old enough to say that Ragna is the protagonist and in the story it is quite clear too

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Majority? I'm not sure I agree with that. It is how they originated, for sure. Mario literally has separate sales charts for the party/sports games and the kart games. Mario Kart is still the top selling game on the Switch. Pokemon GO is the highest money maker for Nintendo. At what point are they not a specific genre? I don't understand the logic.


If everything that has platforms is a platformer, then I guess every gaming character is an RPG, because you are pretending to play a role in the game. This is the equivalent.

Core mainline Mario games are platformers. When people think of Mario, they think of funny wahoo yippee jumpy man. Pokemon Go still keeps RPG elements and the majority of the games are literally RPGs. This isn't a matter of opinion.

Regarding BlazBlue, do you guys think the series is old enough to establish Ragna as the mascot/protagonist or would it be possible we could get another Min Min scenario?

I swear to god I don't even ****ing like Blazblue but it's so blatantly clear they'd pick Ragna over anyone else. ARMS is the exception and I'm pretty sure the only other one would be if we got a Virtua Fighter character, that being Jacky or something instead of Akira. I think people can put 2 and 2 together on what those two have in common

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

I've been thinking about something. Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo were all pretty well-requested characters back in the Brawl days, right? The thing about that is, I could actually see their Ultimate movesets fitting in Brawl. I mean, they do have a couple of unusual complicated moves, but like... Melee gave us Judge, and Brawl had Olimar in it. We may not have had stuff like Hero or Steve back then, but stuff could get way crazier than what the Ult characters I mentioned have.

What I'm leading up to with this is: I wonder if that was deliberate? Like, as a way to get their movesets to reflect that they've been around and requested for a while. That's kind of a fun idea.

But then again, Incineroar, Piranha Plant, and Byleth also have what I would consider "Brawl-y" movesets, and they weren't popular requests at the time. This probably isn't true at all, actually.

My guess is that Sakurai wants to add the occasional simplistic character on each game to not make the entire cast overcomplicated. It's for this reason i expect at least one of the Fighters of this Pass to not rely on gimmicks. I see Crash and/or Lloyd fitting into this category.

 

[SharkLord]

Regarding BlazBlue, do you guys think the series is old enough to establish Ragna as the mascot/protagonist or would it be possible we could get another Min Min scenario?

Yes. Some other members of the cast get their time to shine, but the plot still revolves around Ragna and he's used as the face of BlazBlue in Cross Tag Battle. It's clear that Ragna's 100% the main character.

 

[TwiceEXE]

Core mainline Mario games are platformers. When people think of Mario, they think of funny wahoo yippee jumpy man. Pokemon Go still keeps RPG elements and the majority of the games are literally RPGs. This isn't a matter of opinion.

Halo isn't a FPS because Halo Wars exists. Ask any lawyer.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Figured I just asked since I wasn't sure if a decade would be long enough as oppose to older titles like Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

And that's why we have North American barbarian Adol

Me a Simon main:

(i lack knowledge of Adol and Ys as a whole, but i would prefer the YS 8 design if i had to pick a poison, with Ys 4 beign a second and maybe Ys 9, although i don't like how that one gets rid of his Red Hair)

 

[Guynamednelson]

I've been thinking about something. Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo were all pretty well-requested characters back in the Brawl days, right? The thing about that is, I could actually see their Ultimate movesets fitting in Brawl. I mean, they do have a couple of unusual complicated moves, but like... Melee gave us Judge, and Brawl had Olimar in it. We may not have had stuff like Hero or Steve back then, but stuff could get way crazier than what the Ult characters I mentioned have.

What I'm leading up to with this is: I wonder if that was deliberate? Like, as a way to get their movesets to reflect that they've been around and requested for a while. That's kind of a fun idea.

But then again, Incineroar, Piranha Plant, and Byleth also have what I would consider "Brawl-y" movesets, and they weren't popular requests at the time. This probably isn't true at all, actually.

I still think they were trying to implement gimmicks with Banjo and Byleth regardless, even though with Banjo it's only one move and Byleth's is more about attack animations than mechanics.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Core mainline Mario games are platformers. When people think of Mario, they think of funny wahoo yippee jumpy man. Pokemon Go still keeps RPG elements and the majority of the games are literally RPGs. This isn't a matter of opinion.

To add to this/put things another way: alternative media stuff doesn't count because they aren't games and gaming genres differ from other media genres, and spin-offs don't count because they're not the main focus of the series.

 

[SNEKeater]

And that's why we have North American barbarian Adol

This is not my Adol

I see we're talking about fighting games as a genre.

This makes me want to gush about Sol Badguy and why I hope he gets into Smash, as unlikely as it is. Guilty Gear has been around for a long time and is one of Arc System Works flagship series for them and in the past few years, they kept getting a lot of notability and hits with their solid gameplay. And honestly speaking, Sol would be awesome to see in Smash with his moveset and how it could be incorporated into Smash. Also the music will be a huge highlight.


I just had to gush about Guilty Gear and Sol right now, even if he isn't too likely for Ultimate.

I like this post.

 

[SharkLord]

Figured I just asked since I wasn't sure if a decade would be long enough as oppose to older titles like Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat.

What I think is more important is that BlazBlue is incredibly plot-heavy, while ARMS only has a generic tournament mode that doesn't confirm anything as canon. Sure, there was that one comic, but uh... That one's not coming out anytime soon.

I still think they were trying to implement gimmicks with Banjo and Byleth regardless, even though with Banjo it's only one move and Byleth's is more about attack animations than mechanics.

Banjo's one move isn't any gimmickier than Kirby or ROB, and Byleth isn't even a gimmick at all. If multiple weapons is a gimmick, then so is Cloud's comically oversized meat cleaver. Gimmicks are not a necessary component, they're just what Sakurai prefers to do.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I just had to gush about Guilty Gear and Sol right now, even if he isn't too likely for Ultimate.

It makes you any better. I think Ragna/Sol Badguy has the best chance of a fighting game character getting in at this point with Tekken now out of the way.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Here's a question: I've been told that Mortal Kombat is pretty fundamentally different between games. If that's the case, do you think they'd try to emulate the first game's playstyle or just go with a general vibe with a Mortal Kombat character?

 

[Schnee117]

Halo isn't a FPS because Halo Wars exists. Ask any lawyer.

No, it's a twin stick shooter because of Spartan Assault and Spartan Strike

 

[Guynamednelson]

Here's a question: I've been told that Mortal Kombat is pretty fundamentally different between games. If that's the case, do you think they'd try to emulate the first game's playstyle or just go with a general vibe with a Mortal Kombat character?

They'd try to emulate 2 or 3. Sakurai would be most familiar with them for multiple reasons, ranging from being an arcade boomer to them getting official Japanese releases.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Core mainline Mario games are platformers. When people think of Mario, they think of funny wahoo yippee jumpy man. Pokemon Go still keeps RPG elements and the majority of the games are literally RPGs. This isn't a matter of opinion.

I'm a people, and I disagree, so clearly that isn't inherently true.
Again, you didn't actually dispute the facts I stated- just suggested some others based on the masses of people for whom you do not speak.

Most Pokemon games are not RPGs, btw. Even counting each iteration of a game (which, I don't think most do- as it releases two at a time in the mainline), there are still dozens of apps alone, and many, many other games. Yes the mainline games are RPGs, but that ignores everything else. Just like you ignored commenting on Mario Kart. It also does not align with the rest of your comment that I initially quoted. If Mario is only known for platforming, then Kid Icarus is only known for Uprising, which is a rail shooter/ARPG, and Wario is for Mini Games. There isn't consistency even within the same post.

 

[Munchi]

What I think is more important is that BlazBlue is incredibly plot-heavy, while ARMS only has a generic tournament mode that doesn't confirm anything as canon. Sure, there was that one comic, but uh... That one's not coming out anytime soon.

Banjo's one move isn't any gimmickier than Kirby or ROB, and Byleth isn't even a gimmick at all. If multiple weapons is a gimmick, then so is Cloud's comically oversized meat cleaver. Gimmicks are not a necessary component, they're just what Sakurai prefers to do.

BlazBlue's story mode is already more of a visual novel than currently a fighting game

 

[Dinoman96]

I've been thinking about something. Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo were all pretty well-requested characters back in the Brawl days, right? The thing about that is, I could actually see their Ultimate movesets fitting in Brawl. I mean, they do have a couple of unusual complicated moves, but like... Melee gave us Judge, and Brawl had Olimar in it. We may not have had stuff like Hero or Steve back then, but stuff could get way crazier than what the Ult characters I mentioned have.

What I'm leading up to with this is: I wonder if that was deliberate? Like, as a way to get their movesets to reflect that they've been around and requested for a while. That's kind of a fun idea.

But then again, Incineroar, Piranha Plant, and Byleth also have what I would consider "Brawl-y" movesets, and they weren't popular requests at the time. This probably isn't true at all, actually.

I'm certain Banjo was designed with the mentality of him being a long lost N64 era character, yes. Outside of maybe Wonderwing (especially since side specials weren't even a thing back in 1999 lol), his moveset feels like a Smash 64/Melee character lost to time.

 

[Flik]

(i lack knowledge of Adol and Ys as a whole, but i would prefer the YS 8 design if i had to pick a poison, with Ys 4 beign a second and maybe Ys 9, although i don't like how that one gets rid of his Red Hair)

If it was up to me it would be:

1 - Ys Seven - The closest to his classic design without being his classic design
2 - Ys VIII - His most modern design without looking too different than usual
3 - Ys IX - His latest and most different design
4 - Ys Seven's but shirtless - Because fanservice

 

[TwiceEXE]

Here's a question: I've been told that Mortal Kombat is pretty fundamentally different between games. If that's the case, do you think they'd try to emulate the first game's playstyle or just go with a general vibe with a Mortal Kombat character?

That's not... completely accurate. Most of MK games have been traditional 2D (or 2.5D if you prefer) fighters. There was a brief stint of games that changed into a 3D fighter, and then there was Shaolin Monks which was it's own thing. The gameplay in Smash would likely not be altered based on either of these, excepting a small chance for stance/weapon swapping which showed up in some of the 3D games.

The other difference between games was that the first few games used real actors and recorded them as sprites. The series eventually transitioned to 3D. Before Steve I would say there was a 0% chance Smash recorded real people because it would be so blatantly out of place, but now I give it a 1% because of Minecraft.

 

[pupNapoleon]

To add to this/put things another way: alternative media stuff doesn't count because they aren't games and gaming genres differ from other media genres, and spin-offs don't count because they're not the main focus of the series.

That's... your thought, I guess. When Mario Kart isn't the top selling Mario game of a contemporary audience, maybe that will be true.

Or to put it another way: when many general people think of racing games, they think of Mario Kart. So... ignoring it is pretty absurd.

 

[SNEKeater]

If it was up to me it would be:

1 - Ys Seven - The closest to his classic design without being his classic design
2 - Ys VIII - His most modern design without looking too different than usual
3 - Ys IX - His latest and most different design
4 - Ys Seven's but shirtless - Because fanservice

I'd say Seven is the design I like the most. I guess they would go with the classic design anyways, maybe with some alts from recent games.

Ys IX Adol is really really different lol

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Yea the ys7 design is what I hope they use for adol

 

[SharkLord]

If it was up to me it would be:

1 - Ys Seven - The closest to his classic design without being his classic design
2 - Ys VIII - His most modern design without looking too different than usual
3 - Ys IX - His latest and most different design
4 - Ys Seven's but shirtless - Because fanservice

Personally, I prefer the Ys Seven design. It takes the classic design and modernizes it, so it doesn't come off as too generic.

I'd say Seven is the design I like the most. I guess they would go with the classic design anyways, maybe with some alts from recent games.

Ys IX Adol is really really different lol

The best part? He transformed because someone shot him.

With a gun.

The edgelord gun.