Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Commander_Alph]

The only time Fire Emblem will be redeemed in Smash is when the best game in the franchise gets that rep.

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Just wait till the FE4 remakes and boom, marth 2.0 Seliph and horse marth Sigurd join the battle!

You mean the game that is locked in Famicom/Japan? The ones that is a big f in the face for Smash fans because it's another Marth and is so obscure? Top that off being from an old game AND a Fire Emblem character and you made a recipe for disaster

 

[Will]

You mean the game that is locked in Famicom/Japan? The ones that is a big f in the face for Smash fans because it's another Marth and is so obscure? Top that off being from an old game AND a Fire Emblem character and you made a recipe for disaster

They called me a madman...​

 

[SNEKeater]

You mean the game that is locked in Famicom/Japan? The ones that is a big f in the face for Smash fans because it's another Marth and is so obscure? Top that off being from an old game AND a Fire Emblem character and you made a recipe for disaster

Not that obscure to be honest, among FE fans I mean.

It deserves a localization, just as FE3, Thracia 776 or Binding Blade, but I'd say it's pretty popular considering what you said: never released outside of Japan, therefore the only way to play it in english is using a fan translation, it is an old game...

Through word of mouth and Fire Emblem Heroes, I think FE4 has managed to gain a pretty decent popularity in the West. Same applies to Thracia 776.

Personally I'd put FE4 in my top 3 of best FE games. In terms of characters, story and worldbuilding is the best one tied with Tellius games, if not the best. The music is fantastic. Has some unique and interesting mechanics which would probably need some adjustments if they make a remake
It's a very unique entry in the series.

Though the ony thing I 'fear' is that they might skip it in order to avoid to deal with certain story elements, which would probably be censored or modified nowadays.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Not that obscure to be honest, among FE fans I mean.

It deserves a localization, just as FE3, Thracia 776 or Binding Blade, but I'd say it's pretty popular considering what you said: never released outside of Japan, therefore the only way to play it in english is using a fan translation, it is an old game...

Through word of mouth and Fire Emblem Heroes, I think FE4 has managed to gain a pretty decent popularity in the West. Same applies to Thracia 776.

Personally I'd put FE4 in my top 3 of best FE games. In terms of characters, story and worldbuilding is the best one tied with Tellius games, if not the best. The music is fantastic. Has some unique and interesting mechanics which would probably need some adjustments if they make a remake
It's a very unique entry in the series.

Though the ony thing I 'fear' is that they might skip it in order to avoid to deal with certain story elements, which would probably be censored or modified nowadays.

Three Houses still has incestual implications here and there alongside an implied child **** attempt in part of a character's backstory, I don't think they'd try to censor the incest for one game but not another

 

[SNEKeater]

Three Houses still has incestual implications here and there alongside an implied child **** attempt in part of a character's backstory, I don't think they'd try to censor the incest for one game but not another

True. I might have a different impression of how FE4 told that, Quite a time has passed since I played it.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Why is this thread so angry with Pokemon, yet we are always talking about RPGs?

 

[Flik]

Funny how the first 4 legend spirits we got through DLC were made for very specific situations and are useless otherwise:

joker - Item Autograb: Useless when playing with no items;
hero - Team Power Up: Useless outside of team battles;
banjo&kazooie - Poison Power Up+: Useless when there is no poison floor;
terry - Critical Final Smash Up+: Useless when final smashes are turned off.

On the other hand, these two work on pratically any kind of battle, like they noticed they ****ed up with the others so they made these good:

byleth - Critical Health Healing+: Basically gives you an extra life;
min min - Critical Super Giant: Extra power and reach when you're ****ed up.

And then there is steve with Mouthful of Curry+: I know it makes sense because it's a dragon and it spits fire, but it doesn't change the fact that it's by far the most disapointing Legend spirit so far.

With that said, the I-Tetrimino's still my favorite post-launch spirit: The highest Attack/Defense difference (which can be boosted with dojo training) in the game makes for some really quick battle, be it Player vs Player or CPU vs CPU when a simple jab can take 20% damage. And unlike Akuma, it's not tied to any series, so it doesn't give advantage to anyone.

I hope that, regardless of who we get, the next spirit batches are fun to mess with.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Why is this thread so angry with Pokemon, yet we are always talking about RPGs?

Because RPGs are fun and cool?

 

[osby]

Why is this thread so angry with Pokemon, yet we are always talking about RPGs?

I know this might come as a shock to some people but there are RPGs other than Pokemon.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I know this might come as a shock to some people but there are RPGs other than Pokemon.

Impossible, next you'll say there are other games aside from Smash.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I know this might come as a shock to some people but there are RPGs other than Pokemon.

I'm aware- it's by far the most represented genre in the platform-fighting game we come here to discuss. What's with this ****** response?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Impossible, next you'll say there are other games aside from Smash.

There are other games aside from Smash!

...What?!

 

[chocolatejr9]

There are other games aside from Smash!

...What?!

This must be the work of an Enemy Stand!

What? I saw an opportunity for a JoJo reference.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Why is this thread so angry with Pokemon, yet we are always talking about RPGs?

Because other RPGs aren't seen as an unwanted character choice looming over their heads. Mostly because Fire Emblem already happened.

That and other RPGs aren't making a ton of disappointing decisions with their games.

 

[Ivander]

Oh boy another Lyn alt.

Wish one of those would be a Smash one...
View attachment 291139

I mean, Lyn should be a very unique Smash fighter at this point as they'd probably give her only ranged weapons and not her sword because of how much impact Brave Lyn left to the point where she hasn't had another melee alt. Like seriously, all her alts are ranged weapons and yet still not one Alt with Mani Katti.

 

[Will]

Why is this thread so angry with Pokemon, yet we are always talking about RPGs?

Same reason people **** on Fire Emblem, why waste paid DLC on new old stuff when we could get new new stuff instead? At least that's the mentality.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean, Lyn should be a very unique Smash fighter at this point as they'd probably give her only ranged weapons and not her sword because of how much impact Brave Lyn left to the point where she hasn't had another melee alt. Like seriously, all her alts are ranged weapons and yet still not one Alt with Mani Katti.

I would hate that. I really hope the whole uniqueness issue Fire Emblem has doesn't continue to get character's most interesting abilities to get thrown away because "lol sword bad".

 

[SharkLord]

Why is this thread so angry with Pokemon, yet we are always talking about RPGs?

It's a case-by-case basis. Some RPGs we like, some we don't.

 

[MooMew64]

Pokemon has just morphed into another Fire Emblem situation for Smash fans: It has a ton of content in the game already, so any more is seen as a "waste of a slot" and it frustrates those who want to see completely new franchises join. Doesn't help that the franchise is...not exactly in the internet's good graces right now given some questionable design choses SwSh made. SwSh burned a lot of people, and that resentment's kind of carried over into other things, unfortunately. It's baggage the Pokemon fandom is gonna probably carry around forever now.

With how many 3rd parties Ultimate has added, we've attracted a lot of non-hardcore Nintendo fans and people who play more than just Nintendo games nowadays. Because of this, there's a lot of people nowadays who will pretty much see anything that isn't a 3rd party addition or isn't from a new franchise as uninteresting and/or boring, because admittedly, a lot of people love Ultimate because of the insane crossover element it has now. As much as Three Houses and SwSh are my jam, they admittedly don't widen the crossover with a new series, and as much as I love ARMS, it's a polarizing game that's another Nintendo series.

And this is coming from someone who would probably get way more hyped for Octolings and Waluigi than most big 3rd parties, lol. I totally respect why people view these decisions as boring and would be underwhelming, but I'mma be honest: If Cinderace gets in this game, I'm gonna lose it with hype, so I am actually pulling really hard for SwSh content.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I would hate that. I really hope the whole uniqueness issue Fire Emblem has doesn't continue to get character's most interesting abilities to get thrown away because "lol sword bad".

The sad thing is that the issue is so easily fixable without going that far. They just need to drop the idea that character from strategy game = focus on careful spacing in gameplay. That's half the reason Fire Emblem characters feel so stale in the first place.

 

[SharkLord]

The sad thing is that the issue is so easily fixable without going that far. They just need to drop the idea that character from strategy game = focus on careful spacing in gameplay. That's half the reason Fire Emblem characters feel so stale in the first place.

That, and half the roster has the same build, class, and archetype, and have similar fighting styles as a result. Lucina's just Marth without a gimmick, Roy's potential is squandered by Sakurai's general aversion to veteran revamps, and Chrom feels empty without the extra fiery flare. Doesn't help that Awakening gets three fighters and the other games get either one or jacksquat.

 

[chocolatejr9]

This isn't directly related to Smash, but I have a question for Sega fans: how would this affect the company?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I doubt this would drive them bankrupt or anything (they survived the Dreamcast bombing), but given how important arcades have been for the company, I wanted to make sure.

Though I guess it gives us an excuse to talk about potential Sega reps again...

 

[SKX31]

Funny how the first 4 legend spirits we got through DLC were made for very specific situations and are useless otherwise:

joker - Item Autograb: Useless when playing with no items;
hero - Team Power Up: Useless outside of team battles;
banjo&kazooie - Poison Power Up+: Useless when there is no poison floor;
terry - Critical Final Smash Up+: Useless when final smashes are turned off.

On the other hand, these two work on pratically any kind of battle, like they noticed they ****ed up with the others so they made these good:

byleth - Critical Health Healing+: Basically gives you an extra life;
min min - Critical Super Giant: Extra power and reach when you're ****ed up.

And then there is steve with Mouthful of Curry+: I know it makes sense because it's a dragon and it spits fire, but it doesn't change the fact that it's by far the most disapointing Legend spirit so far.

With that said, the I-Tetrimino's still my favorite post-launch spirit: The highest Attack/Defense difference (which can be boosted with dojo training) in the game makes for some really quick battle, be it Player vs Player or CPU vs CPU when a simple jab can take 20% damage. And unlike Akuma, it's not tied to any series, so it doesn't give advantage to anyone.

I hope that, regardless of who we get, the next spirit batches are fun to mess with.

Item Autograb is the / / counter though, so it's not useless.

The sad thing is that the issue is so easily fixable without going that far. They just need to drop the idea that character from strategy game = focus on careful spacing in gameplay. That's half the reason Fire Emblem characters feel so stale in the first place.

And then there's the issue of Counters being overabundant within the FE cast, which apparently was not in Fire Emblem originally.

It doesn't help - I believe - that:

A) A lot of the casual playerbase have trouble dealing with said Counters. I've watched too many casual matches via Spectate - and in those matches the Counters (whether its a FE character or another character's Counter) will succeed rather often. So I've gotten that impression.

B) FE's Counters are rather homogenized... unless where talking about . Who had an absurdly powerful Counter when (s)he released.

 

[MooMew64]

This isn't directly related to Smash, but I have a question for Sega fans: how would this affect the company?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I doubt this would drive them bankrupt or anything (they survived the Dreamcast bombing), but given how important arcades have been for the company, I wanted to make sure.

Though I guess it gives us an excuse to talk about potential Sega reps again...

The console games side of the business and other ventures such as the Sonic movie have all been doing well for them, so I don't think this does anything too damaging TBH.

 

[osby]

I'm so glad that a wild addition like Steve made us discuss new and exciting topics such as checks "Fire Emblem bad"

...I wonder how this time will be any different than the previous 8 million times.

 

[3BitSaurus]

The sad thing is that the issue is so easily fixable without going that far. They just need to drop the idea that character from strategy game = focus on careful spacing in gameplay. That's half the reason Fire Emblem characters feel so stale in the first place.

That, and half the roster has the same build, class, and archetype, and have similar fighting styles as a result. Lucina's just Marth without a gimmick, Roy's potential is squandered by Sakurai's general aversion to veteran revamps, and Chrom feels empty without the extra fiery flare. Doesn't help that Awakening gets three fighters and the other games get either one or jacksquat.

Pretty much. I mean, the whole "turn-based combat = counter", for example, was interesting in Melee, but did 6/8 characters need it just because they come from FE? And it took us this long to get a character who applies the weapon triangle, even though it's a very well-known FE mechanic.

It's one of the reasons why Robin is the best FE character imo. Strategic gameplay, brings several FE mechanics with him and manages to not make it feel like his moveset is forced.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Because other RPGs aren't seen as an unwanted character choice looming over their heads. Mostly because Fire Emblem already happened.

That and other RPGs aren't making a ton of disappointing decisions with their games.

Is that why Pokemon is the biggest media franchise that has ever existed?
I think I'm speaking on a riff of how this thread is ... always on the wrong side of history.

 

[MooMew64]

I'm so glad that a wild addition like Steve made us discuss new and exciting topics such as checks "Fire Emblem bad"

...I wonder how this time will be any different than the previous 8 million times.

TBH it didn't even take 2 weeks for people to stop talking about Steve and going back to the status quo around here.

We really are only ever focused on what's next nowadays.

 

[Idon]

The sad thing is that the issue is so easily fixable without going that far. They just need to drop the idea that character from strategy game = focus on careful spacing in gameplay. That's half the reason Fire Emblem characters feel so stale in the first place.

That really only applies to Marth. Everyone else kinda relies on spacing as a consequence of wielding a weapon, but only Marth is meant to "simulate" the flow of battle in FE.

Otherwise, they're all supposed to fit a theme that just so happened to put them in positions of being focused on spacing. Ike was put in to fulfill Sakurai's goal of a "heavy swordsman," Corrin was put in to show off his half-transformation abilities, Robin was to show off durability, and Byleth to show off the relics, though perhaps that last one was intended as well since it was directly highlighted.

We all know Roy of all people does not fit the trend of "careful spacing." Funnily enough rushing down enemies in FE6 with Roy is pretty much a one-way ticket into a gameover.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm so glad that a wild addition like Steve made us discuss new and exciting topics such as checks "Fire Emblem bad"

...I wonder how this time will be any different than the previous 8 million times.

Could be said on most topics, Osby.

TBH it didn't even take 2 weeks for people to stop talking about Steve and going back to the status quo around here.

We really are only ever focused on what's next nowadays.

It took less than an hour after his reveal.
I can go quote myself from that time frame if you'd like.

 

[Deleted member]

It takes 2 months before we can start legitimately hoping for news for the next fighter; its still way too soon to expect anything decent to surface. Best we can hope for is some entertaining 'leaks'.

 

[JCKirbs]

I'm so glad that a wild addition like Steve made us discuss new and exciting topics such as checks "Fire Emblem bad"

...I wonder how this time will be any different than the previous 8 million times.

"Fire Emblem bad" but this time, it's being discussed on November 4th, 2020.

 

[Lamperouge]

TBH it didn't even take 2 weeks for people to stop talking about Steve and going back to the status quo around here.

We really are only ever focused on what's next nowadays.

To be fair, not everyone cares about Steve.

I've liked Minecraft for years but Steve's inclusion does very little for me if I'm being honest, so I was already looking forward to the next reveal as soon as he was announced.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Doesn't help that the franchise is...not exactly in the internet's good graces right now given some questionable design choses SwSh made. SwSh burned a lot of people, and that resentment's kind of carried over into other things, unfortunately. It's baggage the Pokemon fandom is gonna probably carry around forever now.

I think it can recover, there's no way their current model is sustainable, and I don't think it will crash and burn so hard that they're forced to abandon ship. It's going to take a while though considering the things it needs to overcome, including, but not limited to:

• Lack of quality in animation, world design, online functionality, etc.
• Lack of faith in their players will to overcome hardship to the point where the hand holding/railroading can insult the player's intelligence or even go against the game's design philosophies.
• Lack of cohesion in visual design to the point where the designs of older generations are starting to look out of place amongst the designs of newer generations, and vice versa.
• Lack of meaningful change that cause players that aren't absolutely hooked by the game's formula to view it as stale.

And this isn't even taking into account that Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield made bank, so they have no reason to even start making changes yet.

The sad thing is that the issue is so easily fixable without going that far. They just need to drop the idea that character from strategy game = focus on careful spacing in gameplay. That's half the reason Fire Emblem characters feel so stale in the first place.

Yeah, even Byleth does this, which is why fewer people are convinced that he's a meaningful addition even with the extra weapons.

I also think the fact that they all have capes and the like makes them look the same at a glance because their silhouettes are just rectangles with slightly different arm positions. I think something needs to be done with the capes. Have some fan out more at the bottom or be more flowey even at rest or something.

I'm so glad that a wild addition like Steve made us discuss new and exciting topics such as checks "Fire Emblem bad"

...I wonder how this time will be any different than the previous 8 million times.

Oh hush. That's not even what we're saying. It's not bad, there's just room for improvement.

We all know Roy of all people does not fit the trend of "careful spacing." Funnily enough rushing down enemies in FE6 with Roy is pretty much a one-way ticket into a gameover.

Actually, he kinda does considering it very much matters how you hit with your attacks, and even the tip hitboxes can be useful for combos. Roy's just far more aggressive in playstyle.

Is that why Pokemon is the biggest media franchise that has ever existed?
I think I'm speaking on a riff of how this thread is ... always on the wrong side of history.

"It sold well so you're criticisms are invalid" is a terrible argument. Even the best games can have criticisms, and Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield have a ton of major criticisms. Even if it turns out that the majority of people don't really mind these criticisms, it doesn't mean they don't exist or matter.

 

[osby]

"Fire Emblem bad" but this time, it's being discussed on November 4th, 2020.

Did I ever tell you what the definition of insanity is?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Funnily enough rushing down enemies in FE6 with Roy is pretty much a one-way ticket into a gameover.

Picking Roy in Melee is also a one-way ticket into a loss.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Did I ever tell you what the definition of insanity is?

If continually talking about a single topic makes you insane then everyone here is insane since this thread is dedicated to a single topic, and we've been going at it for 4395 pages.

Picking Roy in Melee is also a one-way ticket into a loss.

Not true. A skilled Roy could beat any Fox.

 

[Deleted member]

We needed an LTC fire emblem character who just warps, flies, and dances all over the place to kill the boss in 5 seconds while ignoring literally everything else on the screen

 

[JCKirbs]

Did I ever tell you what the definition of insanity is?

In-san-ity /inˈsanədē/ (noun) - extreme foolishness or irrationality.
"Did I ever tell you what the definition of insanity is?"

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Did I ever tell you what the definition of insanity is?

Insanity is doing the exact... same ****ing thing... over and over again expecting... **** to change... That. Is. Crazy. The first time somebody told me that, I dunno, I thought they were bull****ting me, so, I shot him. The thing is... He was right. And then I started seeing, everywhere I looked, everywhere I looked all these ****ing pricks, everywhere I looked, doing the exact same ****ing thing... over and over and over and over again thinking 'this time is gonna be different' no, no, no please... This time is gonna be different.