Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm a people, and I disagree, so clearly that isn't inherently true.
Again, you didn't actually dispute the facts I stated- just suggested some others based on the masses of people for whom you do not speak.

Most Pokemon games are not RPGs, btw. Even counting each iteration of a game (which, I don't think most do- as it releases two at a time in the mainline), there are still dozens of apps alone, and many, many other games. Yes the mainline games are RPGs, but that ignores everything else. Just like you ignored commenting on Mario Kart. It also does not align with the rest of your comment that I initially quoted. If Mario is only known for platforming, then Kid Icarus is only known for Uprising, which is a rail shooter/ARPG, and Wario is for Mini Games. There isn't consistency even within the same post.

Please count every single Pokemon game that has ever existed and ask yourself what the most reoccuring genre is. Hint. It's RPGs. Just like how platformers are with Mario.

Please respect me enough to actually read my posts as I never said that Mario was exclusively a platformer but primarily one. It's not inconsistent to say Wario, who's games, including his debut game, are literally 50% platformers, counts as a platformer. Same goes for Pit. I thought it was obvious that I counted debuts considering all of them debut from platformers and I didn't add characters who don't appear in platformers at all, but if you want to say "Well, in my opinion, Super Mario Bros isn't a platformer" and stuff then go ahead, I just won't entertain you any longer on it

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

There's a design for Adol I really like, and I think it's from a remake of Ys 4? I'm not sure.
I'm a sucker for hoods.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

There's a design for Adol I really like, and I think it's from a remake of Ys 4? I'm not sure.
I'm a sucker for hoods.

Yeah Memories of Celcatha gave him a hoodie

 

[SharkLord]

There's a design for Adol I really like, and I think it's from a remake of Ys 4? I'm not sure.
I'm a sucker for hoods.

This one?

Yep, that would be his Memories of Celceta design.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

This one?
View attachment 291182
Yep, that would be his Memories of Celceta design.

Yeah! that's it. I feel like it might not be the most original if you look at ANIME in general, but I really love it.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Please count every single Pokemon game that has ever existed and ask yourself what the most reoccuring genre is. Hint. It's RPGs. Just like how platformers are with Mario.

Please respect me enough to actually read my posts as I never said that Mario was exclusively a platformer but primarily one. It's not inconsistent to say Wario, who's games, including his debut game, are literally 50% platformers, counts as a platformer. Same goes for Pit. I thought it was obvious that I counted debuts considering all of them debut from platformers and I didn't add characters who don't appear in platformers at all, but if you want to say "Well, in my opinion, Super Mario Bros isn't a platformer" and stuff then go ahead, I just won't entertain you any longer on it

I didn't initially start the conversation that Pokemon had more games that were not RPGs than were, you did. Yet, since you don't want to do the homework, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pokémon_video_games
There are main games, absolutely, yet then it is succeeded by thirty six spinoffs, including the most lucrative of them all. This is ignoring the anime, the figurines, the TCG, and every other way in which many people get involved in this franchise.

Then again-
....you ask me to respect you to read your posts, and yet you don't actually retort or barely even refer to much of anything I say, other than a moment where you comment in a way which clearly shows I read what you wrote. And then tell me "you won't entertain me any longer." We are done, no worries, mate. The hypocrisy can live there.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

BlazBlue's story mode is already more of a visual novel than currently a fighting game

And, iirc, Guilty Gear's is literally just an anime.

Still though, the plot does matter to those games from what I've seen. For example, Nu. 13 was completely replaced by a pallet swap with a different name because she died in the story, but also it's a fighting game and removing your most notable characters is a bad idea.

That's not... completely accurate. Most of MK games have been traditional 2D (or 2.5D if you prefer) fighters. There was a brief stint of games that changed into a 3D fighter, and then there was Shaolin Monks which was it's own thing. The gameplay in Smash would likely not be altered based on either of these, excepting a small chance for stance/weapon swapping which showed up in some of the 3D games.

They were referring to the underlying mechanics rather than shifting genres. Like, Mortal Kombat X's mechanics are very different from Mortal Kombat 11's. Is that true?

The other difference between games was that the first few games used real actors and recorded them as sprites. The series eventually transitioned to 3D. Before Steve I would say there was a 0% chance Smash recorded real people because it would be so blatantly out of place, but now I give it a 1% because of Minecraft.

Considering Terry doesn't use physics because King of Fighters is known for its amazing hand drawn spritework, I would not be surprised if a Mortal Kombat character was mocapped to some extent. I don't think they'd do it entirely though because budget, and because that would cause problems, and does so even within Mortal Kombat.

That's... your thought, I guess. When Mario Kart isn't the top selling Mario game of a contemporary audience, maybe that will be true.

Or to put it another way: when many general people think of racing games, they think of Mario Kart. So... ignoring it is pretty absurd.

I think that's more of a testament to the series's size rather than an exception to the rule. The Super Mario series is big enough that even the spin-offs are huge.

Another way to look at it is that to say that a series doesn't have a genre because of its spin-offs is unhelpful. Genres exist to try and describe games after all, so to say that Super Mario is just a franchise when they ask about genre is of no help to them, especially considering that when people ask a question about series, they are talking about the mainline titles, and when they want to ask about spin-offs, they'll name the spin-off. Which I suppose makes sense considering that spin-off series are series too.

I guess the conclusion that I've been meandering to is that, despite having the same name, the franchise and the series are two different things. For example, the Super Mario series is just the 2D and 3D platformers and Super Mario franchise is the folder that encompasses the Super Mario series as the Mario Kart series, the Mario Sports series, the Paper Mario series, the Yoshi series, the Movies, the theme park, wearable merchandise, etc. The confusion stems from people (including myself) incorrectly using the terms series and franchise interchangeably.

 

[KillerCage]

I see we're talking about fighting games as a genre.

This makes me want to gush about Sol Badguy and why I hope he gets into Smash, as unlikely as it is. Guilty Gear has been around for a long time and is one of Arc System Works flagship series for them and in the past few years, they kept getting a lot of notability and hits with their solid gameplay. And honestly speaking, Sol would be awesome to see in Smash with his moveset and how it could be incorporated into Smash. Also the music will be a huge highlight.


I just had to gush about Guilty Gear and Sol right now, even if he isn't too likely for Ultimate.

Once again, people keeping forgetting about Ragna.


EDIT: Wait a minute...

Well color me surprised.
Ragna is seriously being talked about.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What would Ragna and Sol actually play like?

Because right now all I know is that Sol would be framed as another Terry by haters because "Fafnir = Burn Knuckle" and "Bandit Bringer = Power Dunk". They'd perhaps even go as far as to say "Gunflame = Power Wave".

And Ragna would get the generic "ew swords!".

 

[SharkLord]

What would Ragna and Sol actually play like?

Because right now all I know is that Sol would be framed as another Terry by haters because "Fafnir = Burn Knuckle" and "Bandit Bringer = Power Dunk". They'd perhaps even go as far as to say "Gunflame = Power Wave".

And Ragna would get the generic "ew swords!".

Here's the Guilty Gear competitive wiki. It lists his Guilty Gear Xrd moveset, the general idea of which would probably be translated into Smash. Enjoy.

GGXRD-R/Sol Badguy

www.dustloop.com

 

[pupNapoleon]

I guess the conclusion that I've been meandering to is that, despite having the same name, the franchise and the series are two different things. For example, the Super Mario series is just the 2D and 3D platformers and Super Mario franchise is the folder that encompasses the Super Mario series as the Mario Kart series, the Mario Sports series, the Paper Mario series, the Yoshi series, the Movies, the theme park, wearable merchandise, etc. The confusion stems from people (including myself) incorrectly using the terms series and franchise interchangeably.

This is exactly my point. I never said Mario isn't a platformer. I said that the franchise, as well as Pokemon, is beyond a single genre, and therefore does not really fall into the singular category. It honestly sounds like you came to the same conclusion.

 

[Aerospherology]

Here's the Guilty Gear competitive wiki. It lists his Guilty Gear Xrd moveset, the general idea of which would probably be translated into Smash. Enjoy.

GGXRD-R/Sol Badguy

www.dustloop.com

Air throw? Is this guy Luigi?

 

[Schnee117]

They were referring to the underlying mechanics rather than shifting genres. Like, Mortal Kombat X's mechanics are very different from Mortal Kombat 11's. Is that true?

MK11's handling of mechanics is pretty different from the series as a whole
You have a desperation move you can use at low health and if it lands there's only one use so you have to decide if you want to cash it out or not
You have two meters for offence and defence which are used for a wide variety of different things and they recharge over time as opposed to on hit/taking damage
Some characters have armour breaking moves because there's a lot of ways to gain armour though this is a recent addition with Spawn and the Aftermath content
Characters have Krushing blows like in Soul Calibur but they can only be done once per match

MKX is basically a modern version of MK trilogy with variations and traditional meters.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This is exactly my point. I never said Mario isn't a platformer. I said that the franchise, as well as Pokemon, is beyond a single genre, and therefore does not really fall into the singular category. It honestly sounds like you came to the same conclusion.

In which case, all that's left to say is that since Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, etc. are most notably from the Super Mario series, which is a series of platforming series of games, they are platforming characters no? Or at least that they represent the platforming genre if not also alongside other genres they're notable for appearing in.

 

[KillerCage]

What would Ragna and Sol actually play like?

Because right now all I know is that Sol would be framed as another Terry by haters because "Fafnir = Burn Knuckle" and "Bandit Bringer = Power Dunk". They'd perhaps even go as far as to say "Gunflame = Power Wave".

And Ragna would get the generic "ew swords!".

Here is Ragna's moveset in Blazblue: Central Fiction plus his potential Final Smash towards the end of the video.

 

[Munchi]

Here is Ragna's moveset in Blazblue: Central Fiction plus his potential Final Smash towards the end of the video.

I wonder how they could introduce the life steal mechanic

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I wonder how they could introduce the life steal mechanic

I imagine it would be like Robin's Nosferatu and it just happens when you connect. I could see it being more minimal for balancing, though. Maybe you heal an eighth of the damage dealt instead of half. Or I could see the amount healed scaling when the move stales, so it might start at half, but if repeated it goes down to a quarter and then an eighth, eventually down to nothing if you keep spamming it.

 

[Spongeboob]

I think characters should represent themselves and nothing more.
Also, although I'd prefer Ragna over Sol, I want them both in. But I think Sol might get thrown into the Smash echo chamber by the end of the month (akin to PuyoPuyo's Arle Nadja last year).

View attachment 291193

Once again, people keeping forgetting about Ragna.

I think this would've been a more accurate statement before October. Until recently, Sol and Guilty Gear being brought up wasn't very common, although it still happened every now and then. I think the Grim Reaper gets brought up every so often kind of like Guilty Gear before (some time in) October.

Because right now all I know is that Sol would be framed as another Terry by haters because "Fafnir = Burn Knuckle" and "Bandit Bringer = Power Dunk". They'd perhaps even go as far as to say "Gunflame = Power Wave".

And Ragna would get the generic "ew swords!".

A few things:
1. Ragna's a farmer because he uses a scythe.
2. Don't forget "Bandit Revolver = Crack Shoot"!

In which case, all that's left to say is that since Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, etc. are most notably from the Super Mario series, which is a series of platforming series of games, they are platforming characters no? Or at least that they represent the platforming genre if not also alongside other genres they're notable for appearing in.

When I first saw this post, I was wonderwing why there was no text (outside of the quote) since all I saw was a blob of quoted text. I guess, from what I saw, your text blended in with the rest of your post.

Spoiler

 

[KillerCage]

I wonder how they could introduce the life steal mechanic

Maybe every hit Ragna successfully lands heals 1% of damage?

 

[Eldrake]

I imagine it would be like Robin's Nosferatu and it just happens when you connect. I could see it being more minimal for balancing, though. Maybe you heal an eighth of the damage dealt instead of half. Or I could see the amount healed scaling when the move stales, so it might start at half, but if repeated it goes down to a quarter and then an eighth, eventually down to nothing if you keep spamming it.

IIRC Ragna has very low health too in the Blazblue games to balance the lifesteal (Second lowest health, I think? Lowest health possible actually, for reference he shares his health with one of the youngest characters of Blazblue's rosters), so maybe he could be noticeably lighter than the average human fighter for balance.

 

[SharkLord]

I wonder how they could introduce the life steal mechanic

Every hit he lands removes all damage he has taken up to that point, %$#@ you competitive players and %$#@ you casual players and most importantly %$#@ you balancing.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Every hit he lands removes all damage he has taken up to that point, %$#@ you competitive players and %$#@ you casual players and most importantly %$#@ you balancing.

Or we could just get Jin instead.

He's a sword character.
He has ice powers.
He has projectiles.
He can summon ice pillars at range like Palutena's explosion.

Unstoppable.

 

[KillerCage]

You know if Ragna does make it, he might be the only character who would NOT want be in Smash.
That would be funny.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I ****ing love RPGs so Nintendo can put in as many characters from that genre if they want.

I gotta be honest, since so many JRPG protags are generic swordboys, Nintendo should just be going nuts handing out Mii Swordfighter costumes to classic JRPG protags.

Crono [Chrono Trigger]? IN!
Randi [Secret of Mana]? IN!
Adol [Ys]? IN!
Simea [Crystalis]? IN!
Alis [Phantasy Star]? IN!
Laharl [Disgaea]? IN!
Maxim [Lufia]? IN!
Alex [Lunar]? IN!

 

[SKX31]

Here's the Guilty Gear competitive wiki. It lists his Guilty Gear Xrd moveset, the general idea of which would probably be translated into Smash. Enjoy.

GGXRD-R/Sol Badguy

www.dustloop.com

I stand by my suggestion that Order Sol should be Sol's Echo (yes, I know Echoes aren't going to be a thing with the DLC, lemme dream). A part of me really wants to see the sheer shenaningas that Order Sol could bring with his ridicolous safety on block. Sure, Order Sol would have a bad defensive game... but the trade off where one can leave the opponent in shield stun for potentially crazy amounts of time would be so worth it.

Air throw? Is this guy Luigi?

Air throws looks to me like a command grab a la (naming him since Flame Choke causes a tech chase scenario, while Sol's Air Throw apparently does something similar). Besides Luigi not being able to grab in the air, his throws are more for setting up his strings at low percents / KOs at high.

IIRC Ragna has very low health too in the Blazblue games to balance the lifesteal (Second lowest health, I think?), so maybe he could be made lighter than the average human fighter for balance.

From what I've seen - Ragna's attacks are very much swordie-esque but have some coverage too - another way to balance him might be to make him a fastfaller (making his aerials somewhat risky and leaving him susceptible to combos). He to me looks like he'd fit right into the Glass Cannon archetype, after all.

 

[Spongeboob]

Hey what if the devs brought in a character from a fighting game (that isn't an arena brawler or something like ARMS) but didn't put anything like command inputs or facing one side... in other words, a regular Smash fighter?

 

[PeridotGX]

You know if Ragna does make it, he might be the only character who would NOT want be in Smash.
That would be funny.

I can't imagine Sans would much like being in Smash. Lots of exercise.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I’m going to get into Ys when Ys IX comes out. As long as it’s good I’m sure I’ll be hooked. Plus, I really dig the aesthetic they’re aiming for with that logo. If I like it I’ll probably go back and play at least VIII.

 

[7NATOR]

You know, Since Something Square related will Come (even if no Playable Character), What are the Chances of a Chrono (or Crono) Costume?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

When I first saw this post, I was wonderwing why there was no text (outside of the quote) since all I saw was a blob of quoted text. I guess, from what I saw, your text blended in with the rest of your post.

The end quote was like this for some reason: /Quote]

so it stuck the rest of the text in the quote. I fixed it right away, but it appears I was not quick enough. lol

Air throws looks to me like a command grab a la (naming him since Flame Choke causes a tech chase scenario, while Sol's Air Throw apparently does something similar). Besides Luigi not being able to grab in the air, his throws are more for setting up his strings at low percents / KOs at high.

If we're talking normal grabs in the air then Isabelle is the only one who can do that.

 

[KillerCage]

I can't imagine Sans would much like being in Smash. Lots of exercise.

Considering all of the shenanigans Ragna endures throughout the Blazblue series plus BBTAG, him not wanting to be in Smash is justified.

He is the multiverse's punching bag and he's sick of it.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Hey what if the devs brought in a character from a fighting game (that isn't an arena brawler or something like ARMS) but didn't put anything like command inputs or facing one side... in other words, a regular Smash fighter?

As far as Sakurai's concerned, that would defeat the point.

 

[SharkLord]

I’m going to get into Ys when Ys IX comes out. As long as it’s good I’m sure I’ll be hooked. Plus, I really dig the aesthetic they’re aiming for with that logo. If I like it I’ll probably go back and play at least VIII.

From what I've read, IX might not be the best introductory point due to having more callbacks to older installments than usual. I personally started with VIII, which was available on the Switch, but I think Oath in Felghana and Memories of Celceta might be good introductions too. The former is considered one of the best in the series, and is also a fair bit shorter than the more recent games (Only 10-20 hours, depending on how much of a completionist you are) and Adol has amnesia in the latter, making it good from a beginner's standpoint.

Either way, if you're anything like me, you're going to love it.

 

[Guynamednelson]

You know if Ragna does make it, he might be the only character who would NOT want be in Smash.
That would be funny.

"I hate Smash."

 

[AceAttorney9000]

"I hate Smash."

Wouldn't want him in Smash anyway. He'd be too OP on account of being indestructible.

 

[KillerCage]

"I hate Smash."

More like "I am sick of constantly pulled into fights I don't want to be a part of, pushed around by people who don't respect me, and being surrounded by people who are annoying!"

 

[7NATOR]

I'm Familiar with Blazblue due to being a Fighting game Fan, Watching good amount of Top Ten Gaming videos that had Hazama on the list alot (Quarter guy, Fiery Joker, and More come to mind), and Playing Cross Tag Battle

But why is Nu Obessed with Ragna? From the Glimpses of her I saw before I played Cross tag, I thought she was one of the more Serious type Mecha Girls, So I was so surprised she sounded like a Little Girl with a Robotic Voice and she was in Love with Ragna. Anyone willing to flex their Blazblue Knowledge?

 

[SNEKeater]

Still though, the plot does matter to those games from what I've seen. For example, Nu. 13 was completely replaced by a pallet swap with a different name because she died in the story, but also it's a fighting game and removing your most notable characters is a bad idea.

Same happens with Guilty Gear. Characters that die story wise don't show up in next games (assuming they would add them again), there are some characters that aren't playable and/or do not seem to be playable for Strive after certain events in the canon, and so on.

What would Ragna and Sol actually play like?

Because right now all I know is that Sol would be framed as another Terry by haters because "Fafnir = Burn Knuckle" and "Bandit Bringer = Power Dunk". They'd perhaps even go as far as to say "Gunflame = Power Wave".

And Ragna would get the generic "ew swords!".

Well, the Gunflame comparison would work with like half of the roster. Mario or Pikachu also have side projectiles. But yeah. I could see people comparing him to Terry or just calling him Anime Ryu or something like that.

As for how he would play, well, he would probably be a really aggressive character. Specially if they add Tension Gauge and all it's shenanigans: it's a meter that the player can use to use Roman Cancels in order to extend combos, but you can also use it as a defense option to briefly slow the time and avoid the attack from your rival.
The Tension Gauge is also used for Instant Kills (which are literally instant kills, no matter how much health your rival has) and Overdrives. Which would probably used for his Final Smash, I think.

Another interesting mechanic of the Tension Gauge is that it slowly fills up by itself if you play aggressive, running towards your opponent and all. The game rewards you for being offensive. And it also punishes the player if he decides to being super defensive and retreating, the Tension Gauge will drop to 0.

I think this could be great as part of Sol's moveset in Smash. Roman Cancels/Tension Gauge are a key thing of the series so it wouldn't be a forced gimmick or anything like that.
What "worries" me is that it might be difficult to balance in the context of Smash. But maybe is just me and it wouldn't really be a problem to implement.

Some cool combos:

At 0:23 you can start seeing more looking cool combos. I tried to find gifs of combos but didn't have that much luck. I might do some gifs myself from this video lol

 

[SharkLord]

Same happens with Guilty Gear. Characters that die story wise don't show up in next games (assuming they would add them again), there are some characters that aren't playable and/or do not seem to be playable for Strive after certain events in the canon, and so on.



Well, the Gunflame comparison would work with like half of the roster. Mario or Pikachu also have side projectiles. But yeah. I could see people comparing him to Terry or just calling him Anime Ryu or something like that.

As for how he would play, well, he would probably be a really aggressive character. Specially if they add Tension Gauge and all it's shenanigans: it's a meter that the player can use to use Roman Cancels in order to extend combos, but you can also use it as a defense option to briefly slow the time and avoid the attack from your rival.
The Tension Gauge is also used for Instant Kills (which are literally instant kills, no matter how much health your rival has) and Overdrives. Which would probably used for his Final Smash, I think.

Another interesting mechanic of the Tension Gauge is that it slowly fills up by itself if you play aggressive, running towards your opponent and all. The game rewards you for being offensive. And it also punishes the player if he decides to being super defensive and retreating, the Tension Gauge will drop to 0.

I think this could be great as part of Sol's moveset in Smash. Roman Cancels/Tension Gauge are a key thing of the series so it wouldn't be a forced gimmick or anything like that.
What "worries" me is that it might be difficult to balance in the context of Smash. But maybe is just me and it wouldn't really be a problem to implement.

Some cool combos:

At 0:23 you can start seeing more looking cool combos. I tried to find gifs of combos but didn't have that much luck. I might do some gifs myself from this video lol

Basically Sol:

1. Go up to other guy's face
2. Punch other guy's face
3. Repeat until either A: their face is sufficiently punched or B: your face is sufficiently punched.

What "worries" me is that it might be difficult to balance in the context of Smash. But maybe is just me and it wouldn't really be a problem to implement.

I mean, I never even considered the possibility of resource management or crafting for Steve, and then Sakurai redoes every stage in the game just to make it work. I have full faith in this man to pull off whatever crazy gimmicks a fighter may come with.

 

[Brother AJ]

Hey what if the devs brought in a character from a fighting game (that isn't an arena brawler or something like ARMS) but didn't put anything like command inputs or facing one side... in other words, a regular Smash fighter?

I kind of wish this was how Ryu, Ken, and Terry came to the game. IMHO I don't think command inputs mesh really well with Smash. They counteract with the intuitive essence of the game. I get that it's paying homage to traditional fighters and everything, but there are other ways to do this without changing what Smash is. I liked the mechanic of holding the button longer for moves like Terry has, but it's kind of pointless if there's always a stronger version via a command input.