Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

And honestly, I can only imagine that the conversation got worse when Bayo actually came out. Now, I think it was Cutie Gwen who raised the important point elsewhere that Bayo's primarily OP in Smash 4 because Sakurai went on to focus on Ultimate directly after, leaving Bayo in a permanently powerful state. Which I can absolutely see: Sakurai finalized Ultimate's project plan the day Bayo was released, indicating that Bayo had not been his focus. Likewise, if the team was shifting gears to Ultimate, I can't imagine that the Smash 4 team could test the later DLC characters that extensively.

I mean, , and all have stupidly good Down Bs / mechanics for example. Still though, videos like this popped up not long after release:

And honestly, I can imagine that her post-launch reception kept the Bayonetta/Ballot conversation going. Mind you, Bayonetta got the most ire from Smash 4's competitive environment during 2017 and 2018... when she had been nerfed in 2 consecutive Smash 4 patches. Also, "Release Bayo" was positively insane, partly because grabs could miss her while she was shielding (see gif in the link above). Honestly it's stuff like that which makes me believe the above: that neither Bayo nor Cloud for that matter (I mean, unlimited Limit Break and stupidly good aerials?) simply were tested enough before release. Because the Smash 4 team had likely begun moving on to Ultimate at the point the characters released and could only patch.

View attachment 291030
Smash 4: When Cloud's Up Air did everything for him. Including his taxes.​

Well, it's difficult to say who was more hated initially. Both Corrin and Bayo released simulatenously, and Alpharad wasted no time in posting "AFK Corrin". which probably fueled the hatred for Corrin. It did calm down a bit IIRC, but partly because Bayo and Cloud emerged as the consensus Top 2.

There's a part of me that wishes Smash 4 had a longer time in the competitive scene. While Bayo was stupidly good, there were some lower tier characters that actually stood up well against her, and what was considered competitively viable was slowly being shaken up as a result. Toon Link, for instance, was steadily rising in tier lists all the way until Ultimate came out and it didn't matter anymore. It would have been interesting to see where the scene would have gone in that environment. Probably not worth it in the long run, but it would have been neat to see which characters would rise to the occasion.

 

[Brother AJ]

I have a theory, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's been discussed already, that the only reason we didn't get a TGA 2019 reveal was because it would've been Byleth. They wouldn't have been well received at such a huge cross platform event, and Nintendo likely understood that it wasn't the best way to advertise their DLC pass.

In my eyes, there really isn't a good reason to not use TGA to their advantage as it has become such a huge event rivialng even E3. I think a reveal is very likely this time around, and if we don't get one it's likely that it isn't very exciting.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

In truth, I never had a problem with Bayonetta being in Smash at all. It made sense for her to get in due to the circumstance she was in and the way Smash was picking characters, and I had no qualms with her character at the time.

However, my problem with the idea that she was the winner of the ballot remains. And not necessarily due to her statistics being fishy, because that was something that only cropped up later. No, the real issue was selling her as the winner of the entire ballot. Need I remind people, the ballot was originally marketed as a suggestion poll, a way for fans to suggest reasons for characters to get in as fighters. So the idea that they specifically used that knowledge to include merely one character as a fighter due to specific regions of popularity was... not pretty. Even back then, the idea seemed like an excuse to mask a topical pick in order to avoid technical lies, and I personally don't think learning that most of the actual votes were saved for Ultimate stopped it from looking pointless.

So while Bayonetta is not inherently a bad choice, may that be a reminder of how not to run a marketing tactic.

 

[Deleted member]

Good morning.

I wouldn't want to say that there's gonna be any Smash-related news for this month, but I'd be down for some news this week if able.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Good morning.

I wouldn't want to say that there's gonna be any Smash-related news for this month, but I'd be down for some news this week if able.

Well, there is maintenance occurring tomorrow, so there might perhaps.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Good morning.

I wouldn't want to say that there's gonna be any Smash-related news for this month, but I'd be down for some news this week if able.

yooo Lesley long time no see

say I've been meaning to ask - since you're a huge advocate for more female characters and like MOBAs, how would you react if we got Ahri this pass...?

 

[Deleted member]

Well, there is maintenance occurring tomorrow, so there might perhaps.

I'm really curious about the entire maintenance stuff if, for real. Did any of us gain something new out of it?

Just to refresh my memory, was it through this method that we were able to find out about fighter_kind stuff and all that?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm really curious about the entire maintenance stuff if, for real. Did any of us gain something new out of it?

Just to refresh my memory, was it through this method that we were able to find out about fighter_kind stuff and all that?

that was datamining, and we haven't had fighter_kind leaks since Brave (Hero). we learned other codenames after they were relased. Banjo was Buddy, Terry was Dolly, Byleth was Master, Min Min was Tantan and Steve was Pickel

 

[Deleted member]

yooo Lesley long time no see

say I've been meaning to ask - since you're a huge advocate for more female characters and like MOBAs, how would you react if we got Ahri this pass...?

Perfectly fine with a smile on my face.

that was datamining, and we haven't had fighter_kind leaks since Brave (Hero). we learned other codenames after they were relased. Banjo was Buddy, Terry was Dolly, Byleth was Master, Min Min was Tantan and Steve was Pickel

I see well, Sakurai had been keen on that stuff...

 

[Arcanir]

And honestly, I can only imagine that the conversation got worse when Bayo actually came out. Now, I think it was Cutie Gwen who raised the important point elsewhere that Bayo's primarily OP in Smash 4 because Sakurai went on to focus on Ultimate directly after, leaving Bayo in a permanently powerful state. Which I can absolutely see: Sakurai finalized Ultimate's project plan the day Bayo was released, indicating that Bayo had not been his focus. Likewise, if the team was shifting gears to Ultimate, I can't imagine that the Smash 4 team could test the later DLC characters that extensively.

I mean, , and all have stupidly good Down Bs / mechanics for example. Still though, videos like this popped up not long after release:

And honestly, I can imagine that her post-launch reception kept the Bayonetta/Ballot conversation going. Mind you, Bayonetta got the most ire from Smash 4's competitive environment during 2017 and 2018... when she had been nerfed in 2 consecutive Smash 4 patches. Also, "Release Bayo" was positively insane, partly because grabs could miss her while she was shielding (see gif in the link above). Honestly it's stuff like that which makes me believe the above: that neither Bayo nor Cloud for that matter (I mean, unlimited Limit Break and stupidly good aerials?) simply were tested enough before release. Because the Smash 4 team had likely begun moving on to Ultimate at the point the characters released and could only patch.

View attachment 291030
Smash 4: When Cloud's Up Air did everything for him. Including his taxes.​

Well, it's difficult to say who was more hated initially. Both Corrin and Bayo released simulatenously, and Alpharad wasted no time in posting "AFK Corrin". which probably fueled the hatred for Corrin. It did calm down a bit IIRC, but partly because Bayo and Cloud emerged as the consensus Top 2.

Yeah, her competitive notoriety didn't help either. On top of the controversy over the ballot, you also had the controversy over how clearly overtuned she was as a character. Even after the two patches with one clearly targeted to address her, she still held a powerful influence over the metagame and that made competitive players and watchers very resentful of her. It says a lot when as soon as she pulled off another one of her classic combos in the pre-release Ultimate tournament at E3 that she got a loud outcry of boos out of it, to the point that MKLeo got scared of backlash and switched to another character even though he could've won with her.

It's really unfortunate that Smash 4 didn't get anymore patches since I'm sure if she was further toned down she would've at least shed the competitive hate.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I have a theory, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's been discussed already, that the only reason we didn't get a TGA 2019 reveal was because it would've been Byleth. They wouldn't have been well received at such a huge cross platform event, and Nintendo likely understood that it wasn't the best way to advertise their DLC pass.

In my eyes, there really isn't a good reason to not use TGA to their advantage as it has become such a huge event rivialng even E3. I think a reveal is very likely this time around, and if we don't get one it's likely that it isn't very exciting.

I figured it as well as several insider's claimed that Byleth's intended reveal was supposed to be December. And their trailer starts in the same way Joker's TGA one started.

 

[GenoDoge]

I figured it as well as several insider's claimed that Byleth's intended reveal was supposed to be December. And their trailer starts in the same way Joker's TGA one started.

Hopefully that means a TGA reveal will happen this year.

 

[Koopaul]

I'm just gonna throw out a bunch of random vg characters that very few people talk about so that when it happens I can be like "Haha! I called it!" even though I'm just wild guessing.

Laharl - Disgaea
Thrall - Warcraft
Prince - Prince of Persia
Gran - Granblue Fantasy
Power Pro - Jikkyou Power Pro Baseball
Hatsune Miku - Hatsune Miku

A weird enough assortment that one of them is bound to happen! Flawless logic.

 

[cashregister9]

I'm just gonna throw out a bunch of random vg characters that very few people talk about so that when it happens I can be like "Haha! I called it!" even though I'm just wild guessing.

Laharl - Disgaea
Thrall - Warcraft
Prince - Prince of Persia
Gran - Granblue Fantasy
Power Pro - Jikkyou Power Pro Baseball
Hatsune Miku - Hatsune Miku

A weird enough assortment that one of them is bound to happen! Flawless logic.

Thrall
Gran
Miku

You are very cultured and I appreciate this list.

 

[Shroob]

I'm just gonna throw out a bunch of random vg characters that very few people talk about so that when it happens I can be like "Haha! I called it!" even though I'm just wild guessing.

Laharl - Disgaea
Thrall - Warcraft
Prince - Prince of Persia
Gran - Granblue Fantasy
Power Pro - Jikkyou Power Pro Baseball
Hatsune Miku - Hatsune Miku

A weird enough assortment that one of them is bound to happen! Flawless logic.

Jokes on you.

I'd like all these.

 

[TwiceEXE]

I figured it as well as several insider's claimed that Byleth's intended reveal was supposed to be December. And their trailer starts in the same way Joker's TGA one started.

On the other hand, it seems weird to think that revealing Byleth at TGA instead of a Sakurai Presents would somehow hurt sales. That's the bottom line of all "reception" based arguments; unless it negatively impacts sales it doesn't matter.

 

[cashregister9]

pic.twitter.com/9s2xG77qEL

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) November 3, 2020

Oh yeah Daylight savings exists here is the POTD

D O W N S M A S H

 

[StrangeKitten]

Brawl and Smash 4 both feel like they never had the opportunity to flourish competitively. Brawl because, by the time Smash was taking off on the Internet a little, most people were opting for Melee or PM. 4 because Bayonetta and Cloud still needed some nerfing that they never got. This is why I hope it'll be a long time until we see the next Smash game. I dread that we can potentially get a character who is way overpowered, and then they don't nerf the character enough because it's time to move on to the next game. Good news is, none of the DLC characters have been nigh-unbeatably overpowered thus far. It seems like they're taking a careful approach, and I find myself either wanting buffs for some of them ( , and maybe and where the hell is the Steve icon at?) or being content with their current state ( ). I just hope they can continue the rocksteady pace of releasing characters who aren't too overtuned. The good news about most of them being somewhat underwhelming is that they can be buffed in the future, and won't be too problematic in the meantime.

Regardless, Brawl just has oodles of cool tech characters can do, and it feels like 4's competitive scene needed more time to cook because it likely still held a lot of neat things. Alas.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

pic.twitter.com/9s2xG77qEL

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) November 3, 2020

Oh yeah Daylight savings exists here is the POTD

D O W N S M A S H

Ah ****, not the G&W avatar state.

 

[PLANTMAN]

Thank you for coming all this way to dunk on supporters for both characters.

I mean, he’s not wrong tho

 

[7NATOR]

I think Nintendo should have stated that the ballot could be used for future games. They actually did that for the Japanesse Version, but Ones in the U.S and Europe I believe didn't have that fine Print, And it's kind of bogus considering it seemed 95% of the Ballot was used mostly for Ultimate and not For smash 4


Actually Something I wonder, How Early was a New Smash game decided on? Sakurai Said that Iwata asked for a New Smash game after Smash 4 as a wish. Iwata died in July of 2015, So for the timeline to Match up The idea of the Next smash game had to have been around for awhile. I wouldn't be surprised if The Ballot was honestly conceived mostly as a suggestion box for where to Take the Next Game.

I'm sure if More New Characters had taken over the Ballot instead of the Veteran Characters we might have honestly gotten a Reboot, So I think it's extra Important to thank those that voted for lost Veterans like Wolf, Snake, and Ice Climbers back. I also could see a point where perhaps The DLC smash 4 Characters like Cloud and Bayonetta were licesned for Both Smash 4 and Ultimate at the same time, which would make things easier

 

[GenoDoge]

With daylight savings time, when will the hopefully new spirit event be announced tomorrow?

 

[Aerospherology]

With daylight savings time, when will the hopefully new spirit event be announced tomorrow?

8 PM EST

 

[GenoDoge]

8 PM EST

Alrighty, thanks!

 

[Cosmic77]

One month after Steve was revealed, still no icon.

Guess they all can't recieve the Sans treatment.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I struggle to believe they lied about Bayonetta winning the ballot in some form, because if they needed to lie 100% Cloud was right there and nobody would doubt he won. Them going with the stranger choice proves there was some truth in there.

Or, Bayonetta needed the excuse to get over. Cloud would have been accepted unconditionally, so there was no need to lie.

If Nintendo really wanted to rig a ballot that badly they would have just... not had a ballot.

And if they didn't want to rig the ballot they would have just...told us the results.

one that doesn't directly benefit Nintendo; I figure that, if the Smash Ballot was actually rigged, it would have been rigged for a character that Nintendo would directly profit off of rather than a third party character

The same character they don't profit from that they've also bankrolled 2/3rds of her franchise?

 

[Shroob]

One month after Steve was revealed, still no icon.

Guess they all can't recieve the Sans treatment.

I 'kinda' understand, since they wait until they can rip the game files for the stock icons, and Sans was just photoshopped out of the trailer.

But it has been almost 3 weeks now since his patch came out.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I 'kinda' understand, since they wait until they can rip the game files for the stock icons, and Sans was just photoshopped out of the trailer.

But it has been almost 3 weeks now since his patch came out.

Even then they could've taken the Steve icon from the official site and the remaining ones from the fan wiki.

 

[Spongeboob]

Hey remember when we thought we were getting a Sony character because PlayStation was involved with a Smash tournament?

 

[Knight Dude]

It's funny how people hate shill picks, then whenever any character is announced, they make every stretch possible to conclude that character is shill.

I know. I saw some people say Terry was included to promote SNK Heroines, despite the game not really having content from it, not even music.

Shopping District, Taiping Road would also be pretty cool if we get Chun-Li in that hypothetical next Smash or Ultimate Deluxe.

Let your boy fight on Central Highway. Noah's Park would also be pretty sick too.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I've never been a fan of Impa personally...

Until Age of Calamity. The moveset they gave her is much more representative of her "village ninja" origins while also being incredibly stylish and flashy in its own right. Of course, the moment I buy into the Impa hype train, she's too early and misses the Ultimate DLC train...

Not sure if she will miss it. Next year is the Zelda anniversary , and well, Zelda really could use a newcomer. Impa has been playable as many times as Zelda has, albeit through cameo games as Candence of Hyrule, and non cannon stuff as Hyrule Warriors. However Age of Calamity really, really gives her that same factor that the likes of Toad, Dixie Kong and Bandana Dee have. Except Zelda hasn't had a proper newcomer since Brawl, like Kirby... I do hope all these characters make it in one day.

And yes Age of Calamity Impa has an awesome moveset so far. The clone and absorption mechanic would translate well into Smash. She would be much like Sheik in a way, fast but deals little damage and knockback, but the clones would cover that weakness greatly.

If not now, am confident she's gonna be in next time.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Impa has been playable as many times as Zelda has

I don't remember Impa being playable on the CDi

 

[Knight Dude]

That's mostly due to Ultimate's buffer giving you ample time to pull off the input.

Not that other fighting games don't have buffers, just that Ultimate's is twice as big as most traditional fighters.

They also kept those inputs to the most basic of the bunch, so no pretzels, pentagrams or whatever the hell Summon Suffering is suppoed to be.

Did someone say King Piccolo Pentagram input?

 

[Lamperouge]

I mean, he’s not wrong tho

What, have you worked on the game?

Since you seem to be so knowledgeable on who is and isn't DLC, why don't you spill the beans on the rest of the lineup? Go on, I'll wait.

 

[Jerry98]

**** it If I had to pick 3 pokemon from the 3 unrepped generations I would choose

3: Grovyle
5: Emboar
8: Inteleon

3: Mystery Dungeon's Grovyle
5: Zoroark is already in a Pokéball, so maybe Bisharp or Haxorus
8: Toxtricity

 

[ZelDan]

here are the Pokemon I'd like to see added to Smash:

 

[Evil Trapezium]

here are the Pokemon I'd like to see added to Smash:

Sick list bro. Good taste in Pokemon.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What, have you worked on the game?

Since you seem to be so knowledgeable on who is and isn't DLC, why don't you spill the beans on the rest of the lineup? Go on, I'll wait.

Idk man he's right. We all need to go home, there's a pandemic

 

[Diddy Kong]

**** it If I had to pick 3 pokemon from the 3 unrepped generations I would choose

3: Grovyle
5: Emboar
8: Inteleon

3. Sceptile / Blaziken , can't choose.
5. Genesect or Bisharp
8. Rillaboom probably

 

[Knight Dude]

**** it If I had to pick 3 pokemon from the 3 unrepped generations I would choose

3: Grovyle
5: Emboar
8: Inteleon

Blaziken and Stoutland. None of the Gen 8 crew interest me much.