Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[GoodGrief741]

sigh I'm sure Sakurai would agree with you. Which is why Crono will end up being just as unplayable to me as Hero...

Well, thanks, but I actually wanted to know your opinion. Would you find it weird, or do you just fear that it would be too gimmicky?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Well, thanks, but I actually wanted to know your opinion. Would you find it weird, or do you just fear that it would be too gimmicky?

I fear it would be too gimmicky. It's not too weird.

But I'd certainly prefer they go the Ness route with Crono. Has a nice gimmickless moveset, and a couple friendo's show up for his FS to do a badass Triple Tech.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Bayo has an English voice and she still yells that.

I forgot about that since it's pretty rare and I don't play Bayonetta. I also wasn't sure if she was saying anything at all. Makes me wonder what it means.

 

[SneakyLink]

I forgot about that since it's pretty rare and I don't play Bayonetta. I also wasn't sure if she was saying anything at all. Makes me wonder what it means.

I think it’s Akira’s quote: “Jūnen Hayain da yo!”

 

[Koopaul]

Basically: I think some people have been looking too deeply into Min Min's inclusion ever since June and in some cases, are applying her inclusion to mean something for characters that don't have the same factors in play for their respective series. Min Min does not circumvent the trends, she still fits them perfectly given the unique nature of Yubuki's view of the ARMS cast. I don't think using Min Min's factors for non-protagonist characters work when she directly benefited from the nature of her own series considering her a protagonist.

Those are just my two cents, though.

I think of it like this. Min Min is litterally the only fighter Sakurai had to address the whole "why did we go with this character and not that one?" showing it was an unusual circumstance that needed to be addressed and have some sort of excuse. Sakurai even said that this fighter was "a special request" on his Twitter. Yeah, I don't think Min Min falls in line with the previous trends. But I also think she's going to be the only fighter who does this. An exception to the rule.

 

[SKX31]

I forgot about that since it's pretty rare and I don't play Bayonetta. I also wasn't sure if she was saying anything at all. Makes me wonder what it means.

" 十年早いんだよォ！" = "You're 10 years too early!" (To beat me, aka. "Try again in 10 years!")

Which fits her in a certain sense - I mean, her Smash 4 appearance was basically her carrying everyone else to the blastzone, enraging them with Witch Time for even more blast-zone carrying combos, and then shouting that line just to rub salt in the wounds.

 

[Guynamednelson]

" 十年早いんだよォ！" = "You're 10 years too early!" (To beat me, aka. "Try again in 10 years!")

Which fits her in a certain sense - I mean, her Smash 4 appearance was basically her carrying everyone else to the blastzone, enraging them with Witch Time for even more blast-zone carrying combos, and then shouting that line just to rub salt in the wounds.

"Try again in 10 years!" would fit a character OP in Ultimate better

 

[Will]

But I'd certainly prefer they go the Ness route with Crono. Has a nice gimmickless moveset

Ness? Ness? You want Crono to be a PK Fire spamming, aerial loving, floaty with a Wifi Warrior audience? I can't stand for this mockery.

 

[SKX31]

"Try again in 10 years!" would fit a character OP in Ultimate better

It's a shame that doesn't randomly shout it. I mean, he's Bayo's and Dante's son.

Yes, I know this one is incredibly difficult because MKLeo intentionally only hits parts of his up-airs to keep Maister's G&W locked. Still lead to a 45 % lock.

I fear it would be too gimmicky. It's not too weird.

But I'd certainly prefer they go the Ness route with Crono. Has a nice gimmickless moveset, and a couple friendo's show up for his FS to do a badass Triple Tech.

Ness? Ness? You want Crono to be a PK Fire spamming, aerial loving, floaty with a Wifi Warrior audience? I can't stand for this mockery.

Also, isn't Ness the first one with an unorthodox Up B (That most Wifi Warriors will use for the disrespect if not recovering / protecting the ledge) ?

 

[Idon]

Also, isn't Ness the first one with an unorthodox Up B (That most Wifi Warriors will use for the disrespect if not recovering) ?

Yeah Ness might be relatively tame compared to the myriad gauges and moveset themes nowadays, but he's still got a lot of unique stuff:
An Up B that doesn't send up traditionally and has to be aimed at Ness, a neutral B that functions as a slow teleporting hitbox, a down b that absorbs and has an initial hitbox, an fsmash that reflects, a dsmash and usmash that have hitboxes while charging and can go off the stage.

It's just that unlike a lot of characters his weird attributes aren't tied to a specific overarching mechanic or theme across his moveset.
I will say if he got in nowadays, he'd definitely have gotten a PP bar.

" 十年早いんだよォ！" = "You're 10 years too early!" (To beat me, aka. "Try again in 10 years!")

Which fits her in a certain sense - I mean, her Smash 4 appearance was basically her carrying everyone else to the blastzone, enraging them with Witch Time for even more blast-zone carrying combos, and then shouting that line just to rub salt in the wounds.

It's also a reference to Virtua Fighter's Akira, another series Sega owns.
Speaking of, After Burner Climax is a remix of After Burner II theme song.

 

[Will]

I will say if he got in nowadays, he'd definitely have gotten a PP bar.

His moves are relatively weak for a bootleg MP bar, unless they wanted to give Ness literally every single PSI move from the series.

 

[Idon]

His moves are relatively weak for a bootleg MP bar, unless they wanted to give Ness literally every single PSI move from the series.

Yeah, I'm saying he'd have much more obnoxious variants of his teams' classic moves but they come at the cost of a resource.

And also he'd probably have PSI/PK Rockin

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's just that unlike a lot of characters his weird attributes aren't tied to a specific overarching mechanic or theme across his moveset.
I will say if he got in nowadays, he'd definitely have gotten a PP bar.

Or maybe his percent would scroll up, allowing to survive for longer because it takes him longer for his percent to go up.

Like, Ganondorf landing an Up Smash and a Forward Smash in rapid succession wouldn't kill him because Ness's percent didn't scroll up the full 24 points of damage yet, keeping him out of K.O.%.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Nobody in Smash should have a goddamn MP bar!

Ness? Ness? You want Crono to be a PK Fire spamming, aerial loving, floaty with a Wifi Warrior audience? I can't stand for this mockery.

I didn't mean the specific moves obviously.

 

[Will]

You know what's also becoming a new gimmick? Grappling recoveries. Seriously, the DLC gave us three characters with them.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You know what's also becoming a new gimmick? Grappling recoveries. Seriously, the DLC gave us three characters with them.

Remember when everyone thought they were trying to get rid of these? lol

I'm sure it's just a coincidence though, much like how a ton of characters have counters.

 

[Will]

Nobody in Smash should have a goddamn MP bar!

Except Hero unless you want to be constantly Thwacked and Kaboomed.

Remember when everyone thought they were trying to get rid of these? lol

I'm sure it's just a coincidence though, much like how a ton of characters have counters.

They didn't really have much of a choice for a recovery that wasn't that, either, it's just really weird how a third of the DLC has it.

 

[MooMew64]

I think of it like this. Min Min is litterally the only fighter Sakurai had to address the whole "why did we go with this character and not that one?" showing it was an unusual circumstance that needed to be addressed and have some sort of excuse. Sakurai even said that this fighter was "a special request" on his Twitter. Yeah, I don't think Min Min falls in line with the previous trends. But I also think she's going to be the only fighter who does this. An exception to the rule.

I respectfully disagree. I feel Min Min lines up perfectly with our trend of protagonists seemingly being the focus due to the "everyone being a protagonist" mindset comes from Yubuki himself, not Sakurai. Taking the time to explain why expectations for Spring Man were broken doesn't really come off as an excuse to me, it's more taking the time to explain how the creator of ARMS views his game's characters as all having equal worth to the brand and overall story, making them all valid characters to promote the game. This is different compared to most other franchises repped in Smash, and taking a second to explain it's difference helps clear up any confusion that not just anyone from a franchise could take the spot for a series' first rep: There's a clear trend across all Smash games where a protagonist and face of the game joins first, and given the series creator's own words, Min Min is a face of ARMS, because all of it's playable characters are in his mind.

There's also the potential that Min Min could become ARMS new face in a potential ARMS 2, given her immense popularity with ARMS fans and the game's creator liking her a lot. This has happened before with characters like Morrigan in Darkstalkers.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Nobody in Smash should have a goddamn MP bar!

I'll have to disagree there. It may not be your cup of tea, but resource management is a valid mechanic that a lot of people enjoy. Heck, even fighting games like Mortal Kombat 11 and Guilty Gear factor it into their main systems with how their meter(s) work.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I talked with a couple of friends how we haven't really gotten a fast character since Joker. Out of the 7 DLC fighters (8 if you wanna count Piranha Plant), only one of them has really good mobility, and that is Joker. It's been quite a long time since we had a character with good mobility which makes me wonder if we'll get a fast mobile character in one of the upcoming four packs. Part of me thinks it could be Adol since Ys' combat is fast paced and Adol's momentum doesn't stop going in those games.

Which made me think more about how to incorporate Adol in Smash and then I realized Melee's momentum preservation could represent Ys' combat and Adol could bring Melee's momentum preservation with him just like how Steve sorta brought back gliding from Brawl.

I'm probably getting ahead of myself but it's funny to think about how mechanics from previous Smash games could be brought back with DLC fighters in Ultimate.

 

[Will]

I talked with a couple of friends how we haven't really gotten a fast character since Joker. Out of the 7 DLC fighters (8 if you wanna count Piranha Plant), only one of them has really good mobility, and that is Joker. It's been quite a long time since we had a character with good mobility which makes me wonder if we'll get a fast mobile character in one of the upcoming four packs.

The only speedsters I remember being brought into Smash 4 were Mac and Cloud. If we only get Joker, I wouldn't doubt that we may not get another one for how scarce they came in already.

 

[Wunderwaft]

The only speedsters I remember being brought into Smash 4 were Mac and Cloud. If we only get Joker, I wouldn't doubt that we may not get another one for how scarce they came in already.

True, there's no guarantee we'll get another fast character but the fact that we haven't gotten one in a while is still something to consider. Play style diversification is something Sakurai and his team said they will tackle in each fighters pass which is why I think it's quite possible we might get another fast character as DLC.

 

[kirbsmash]

I talked with a couple of friends how we haven't really gotten a fast character since Joker

Does heo's speed spell count? he's faster than sonic with it.

 

[Will]

True, there's no guarantee we'll get another fast character but the fact that we haven't gotten one in a while is still something to consider. Play style diversification is something Sakurai and his team said they will tackle in each fighters pass which is why I think it's quite possible we might get another fast character as DLC.

Eh, we'll see.

Also, I forgot Greninja was in the game. He's the most forgettable for me, but he is fast..

Does heo's speed spell count? he's faster than sonic with it.

No, Acceleratle is just a buff. If he was built like that normally, then yes, he would probably be broken.

 

[kirbsmash]

No, Acceleratle is just a buff. If he was built like that normally, then yes, he would probably be broken.

I figured but nobody brings it up, might as well.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Does heo's speed spell count? he's faster than sonic with it.

Ehh I wouldn't consider Hero a fast character. Him having access to one spell out of twenty one random spells doesn't describe his entire archetype.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It is kind of interesting to think about. Joker is the quickest overall, and the only character who could reasonably play rush down (though due to the nature of his kit, he's actually an all-rounder). All of the other characters are quite slow since Terry is a traditional fighting game character where jumps are committal, Steve is...Steve, and literally everyone else is a zoner of some kind (though Banjo & Kazooie have the fastest dash speed).

 

[osby]

I talked with a couple of friends how we haven't really gotten a fast character since Joker. Out of the 7 DLC fighters (8 if you wanna count Piranha Plant), only one of them has really good mobility, and that is Joker. It's been quite a long time since we had a character with good mobility which makes me wonder if we'll get a fast mobile character in one of the upcoming four packs. Part of me thinks it could be Adol since Ys' combat is fast paced and Adol's momentum doesn't stop going in those games.

Which made me think more about how to incorporate Adol in Smash and then I realized Melee's momentum preservation could represent Ys' combat and Adol could bring Melee's momentum preservation with him just like how Steve sorta brought back gliding from Brawl.

I'm probably getting ahead of myself but it's funny to think about how mechanics from previous Smash games could be brought back with DLC fighters in Ultimate.

Depends on what you mean by fast but Banjo has one of the highest run speeds in the game.

 

[Will]

Depends on what you mean by fast but Banjo has one of the highest run speeds in the game.

I think they meant just agile movement in general, like how Fox is.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Depends on what you mean by fast but Banjo has one of the highest run speeds in the game.

I think they meant just agile movement in general, like how Fox is.

Yeah, it seems in exchange for having multiple jumps, their air speed is super low. It's faster than Byleth, but slower than Dr. Mario if that puts anything into perspective.

EDIT: Also, their initial dash is very slow, so even on the ground his burst movement is even slower than Steve and Incineroar.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Except Hero unless you want to be constantly Thwacked and Kaboomed.

If a move is OP unless it's tied to a resource, it shouldn't be in Smash in the first place.

I'll have to disagree there. It may not be your cup of tea, but resource management is a valid mechanic that a lot of people enjoy.

Those people should be hit by traffic.

The only resource bar Smash should have is the FS Meter. And there's no "management" there. It only does one thing, and you either have enough to do it, or you don't.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Depends on what you mean by fast but Banjo has one of the highest run speeds in the game.

Sorry I guess I didn't word it that properly. What I meant is a character that is fast on the ground and in the air with moves that have good frame data, so basically they're agile in whatever situation. Banjo's Air Speed in Ultimate is the 74th fastest which makes him really slow in the air, for reference Joker's ranking is 36. All the DLC fighters so far are slower than Joker's 36th ranking in the air. Which doesn't fit what I meant with good mobility.

 

[Will]

Those people should be hit by traffic.

what the **** is wrong with you

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Those people should be hit by traffic.

Dude, chill. It's a preference of play, not a crime punishable by death and/or severe injury. Smash takes all sorts, and you have to respect that.

 

[SharkLord]

I talked with a couple of friends how we haven't really gotten a fast character since Joker. Out of the 7 DLC fighters (8 if you wanna count Piranha Plant), only one of them has really good mobility, and that is Joker. It's been quite a long time since we had a character with good mobility which makes me wonder if we'll get a fast mobile character in one of the upcoming four packs. Part of me thinks it could be Adol since Ys' combat is fast paced and Adol's momentum doesn't stop going in those games.

Which made me think more about how to incorporate Adol in Smash and then I realized Melee's momentum preservation could represent Ys' combat and Adol could bring Melee's momentum preservation with him just like how Steve sorta brought back gliding from Brawl.

I'm probably getting ahead of myself but it's funny to think about how mechanics from previous Smash games could be brought back with DLC fighters in Ultimate.

IT'S TIME

 

[DarthEnderX]

Smash takes all sorts, and you have to respect that.

I'm just personally not a fan of when fighting game characters in the same game feel like they're from completely different games because every character uses completely different mechanics.

It's part of the problem with BlazBlue. Every character has, like, completely different UI elements, and learning a new character in that game is like learning and entirely new fighting game.

It's just...so unnecessary. And Smash didn't used to be that way. Not in 64 obviously. Ice Climbers started it in Melee. Continued in Brawl with Olimar or Pokemon Trainer, but was still pretty rare. It became more common in 4 and Ultimate has just gone off the rails, especially with the DLC.

 

[I.D.]

Sakurai already stated his intentions with DLC fighters. I believe Byleth is the absolute limit on how simple a fighters pass character will be. Really don't think we are getting a falcondorf tier moveset.

 

[Dinoman96]

Arle deconfirmed?

[Entrevista] Hablamos con el productor de Puyo Puyo Tetris acerca de su secuela, colaborar con Kirby, Arle en Smash y más - Nintenderos

¡Aquí estamos de nuevo! Y es que en esta ocasión, hemos tenido el placer de hablar con Mizuki Hosoyamada, productor veterano en la industria que, tras pasar por el Sonic Team ahora es el principal encargado de la serie de Puyo Puyo Tetris, que este mismo mes de diciembre celebra el lanzamiento...

translate.google.com

Back in the day, I found myself really excited when it was announced internally within the company that Sonic would be joining the cast of Super Smash Bros. Brawl and being someone who had originally been involved in the Sonic production team, it was exciting to see the overwhelming response from fans around the world when the announcement was made public. Likewise, if a character from Puyo Puyo was invited to join, I think Arle would be the most suitable of all. It would be amazing to see that happen, and it's fun to think of all the ways it could be incorporated.

 

[PeridotGX]

If a move is OP unless it's tied to a resource, it shouldn't be in Smash in the first place.

Those people should be hit by traffic.

The only resource bar Smash should have is the FS Meter. And there's no "management" there. It only does one thing, and you either have enough to do it, or you don't.

gona go find some traffic real quick

 

[SKX31]

Yeah Ness might be relatively tame compared to the myriad gauges and moveset themes nowadays, but he's still got a lot of unique stuff:
An Up B that doesn't send up traditionally and has to be aimed at Ness, a neutral B that functions as a slow teleporting hitbox, a down b that absorbs and has an initial hitbox, and an fsmash that reflects, a dsmash and usmash that have hitboxes while charging and can go off the stage.

It's just that unlike a lot of characters his weird attributes aren't tied to a specific overarching mechanic or theme across his moveset.
I will say if he got in nowadays, he'd definitely have gotten a PP bar.

It's also a reference to Virtua Fighter's Akira, another series Sega owns.
Speaking of, After Burner Climax is a remix of After Burner II theme song.

That's true, I've just grown up with the assumption that "unorthodox" starts with the moves (old Melee habits die hard I suppose), so meters were just an extension of that subconciously. It's what caused me to think that Byleth was too, so I'll apologize for the earlier confusion (rather late, but still) SMAASH! Puppy . I'll adjust how I view "unorthodox" since, well, that's evolved quite a bit.

I talked with a couple of friends how we haven't really gotten a fast character since Joker. Out of the 7 DLC fighters (8 if you wanna count Piranha Plant), only one of them has really good mobility, and that is Joker. It's been quite a long time since we had a character with good mobility which makes me wonder if we'll get a fast mobile character in one of the upcoming four packs. Part of me thinks it could be Adol since Ys' combat is fast paced and Adol's momentum doesn't stop going in those games.

Which made me think more about how to incorporate Adol in Smash and then I realized Melee's momentum preservation could represent Ys' combat and Adol could bring Melee's momentum preservation with him just like how Steve sorta brought back gliding from Brawl.

I'm probably getting ahead of myself but it's funny to think about how mechanics from previous Smash games could be brought back with DLC fighters in Ultimate.

Sakurai 'bout to bring back proper wavedashing baybee .

It would be really interesting to see - the mere fact that in Melee momentum is preserved when jumping would change a lot by itself. Would Adol perhaps also benefit from edge-cancelling (landing close to a platform's edge with an aerial and sliding off to cancel landing lag)... or would that be too OP? I'm asking since I have no clue how Adol plays. And I'm not entirely sure Sakurai wants to bring back L-Canceling.

And just for funsies - which character would in that case bring back 64's ridicolous hitstun?