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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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MooMew64

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It is all up to interpretation. But I know for certain Banjo had to be ballot. He is to niche now given he has only had 5 games, with the last one being a flop. Banjo being added had to be fan demand. For Hero, I just assume it is the same. I mean, he is Mr. RPG. I am assuming Nintendo looked at the ballot and said "These will make money."
I mean...Microsoft still pushes B&K through merch quite a bit and Phil Spencer not once, but twice made public support for the character to be included. Add Rare Replay always being an item Microsoft loves to advertise and I wouldn't exactly say Banjo is really all that niche, especially to people who play Nintendo games like Smash Bros.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Just to rewind a bit if you don’t mind I would like you to acknowledge the part in your post where you said Banjo and Hero were chosen from the ballot. I don’t think that was ever confirmed. Plus, on Joker, Sakurai said that Nintendo was the one to choose the characters so I’m not really sure where those points were going.

Granted I do know that Banjo and Hero were very popular in individual parts of the world but I’m not sure if they were Ballot choices like Ridley, K. Rool, and Simon.
While there's no evidence of ballot influence, we DO Sakurai has said a Hero was requested for a loooong time but he only felt it was actually possible when developing Ultimate, which is what he said during the DQXIS launch stream
 

drag0nscythe

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He is already a Mii Costume?

Btw, I suspect that Steve got very high votes during 2015 ballot and Smash team thought about it, but maybe they find it difficult to implement because of 3DS hardware limitations, so that would explain the “five year negotiations” they had with Mohang.

We also know that Nintendo also looked for Sora for FP2 but negotiations fell because of the high price Disney asked. Its highly likely that Sora also got a very high place at ballot and Nintendo looked for hin for Smash 4 but negotiations fell.
Goemon is. But one can hope dood. One can hope.
How do we know Sora fell through?

It would be a great shame.
would it though?

The Hayabusa train started long before Vergeben. There was the Doomabusa leak in, what, March of last year? Then IAmShifty adamantly claimed he was negotiated for, possibly for FP5 in November, and only now has Vergeben weighed in and said he's heard about it.

Also your argument falls apart because while Banjo and possibly Hero are ballot picks the other DLC characters absolutely aren't, therefore being a ballot pick isn't a necessity. Hell, by your standards, if there can be Sakurai picks then Hayabusa as an iconic NES character is totally up his alley.

And are you really asking why Ninja Gaiden would get a character over Mystical Ninja?
I dont trust leakers to much. They all seem shifty. And I can ask that question. But I already know most of the canned answers. I feel the effects of NG are overstated. It is not a retro game I ever really hear about. I find NG in the same boat as MN mostly.

I mean...Microsoft still pushes B&K through merch quite a bit and Phil Spencer not once, but twice made public support for the character to be included. Add Rare Replay always being an item Microsoft loves to advertise and I wouldn't exactly say Banjo is really all that niche, especially to people who play Nintendo games like Smash Bros.
That is true. but I feel like Fan demand played a larger role.
 
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StarBot

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(Most people don't want another Pokemon cause SwOrD sHiElD bad!)
Screenshot 2020-10-19 141627.png

The excuse that "I didn't want to leak plant because nobody would believe me" is still the most stupid thing ever. Wouldn't that make you want to leak it even more? Imagine the clout
I agree wholeheartedly, BUT, to plays devil's advocate, the dude was getting harassed and ass blasted for saying that there wouldn't be a lot of characters in the game, which turned out to be true
Crash and Coco as Echoes of each other.
Why do people think we are going to get echos when we didn't through-out the pass and Sakurai himself said so
 

MarioRaccoon

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Goemon is. But one can hope dood. One can hope.
How do we know Sora fell through?
Internet whispers, don’t want to give specific names but an user from a big gaming forum said that Nintendo wanted Sora but the money Disney asked was too much to be profitable for them.

Why do people think we are going to get echos when we didn't through-out the pass and Sakurai himself said so
I can see Coco being a Crash alt, they have to fit her proportions a bit, they do that for Enderman, why not for Crash little sister?. It can be a good detail to include both of them lf Crash gets in, as both Crash trilogy and Crash 4, you can swipe at any time between them.
 
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3BitSaurus

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They all seem shifty.
But only one of them is called that. I mean, his YT is literally called IAmShifty! :roll:

I am not sorry.

But really, even though I have no horse in the NG race, I hardly think it's a bandwagon. Hayabusa is a classic and beloved character that people like since the NES era, so they want him in. Really, I'd say not seeing talks about him is more on you than on his games "not being influential".
 

drag0nscythe

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Internet whispers, don’t want to give specific names but an user from a big gaming forum said that Nintendo wanted Sora but the money Disney asked was too much to be profitable for them.



I can see Coco being a Crash alt, they have to fit her proportions a bit, they do that for Enderman, why not for Crash little sister?. It can be a good detail to include both of them lf Crash gets in, as both Crash trilogy and Crash 4, you can swipe at any time between them.
Stupid Disney. Ruins everything they touch.

But only one of them is called that. I mean, his YT is literally called IAmShifty! :roll:

I am not sorry.

But really, even though I have no horse in the NG race, I hardly think it's a bandwagon. Hayabusa is a classic and beloved character that people like since the NES era, so they want him in. Really, I'd say not seeing talks about him is more on you than on his games "not being influential".

Depends. In topics like this, on other smash forums, you can tend to get an idea of fan demand. And many characters are beloved. Steve is beloved.
 

Guynamednelson

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That's easy, you play the Genocide route and kill him. Why do you think his remains are bundled with the Megalovania track?
Yeah, but he's still, you know, bone. Cuphead's going to be an issue too, since the head of a Cuphead Mii Gunner is shorter than a normal Mii's.
 

drag0nscythe

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To me, Ryu Hayabusa is the ultimate 50/50 choice. Enough for him to make sense and just enough for him to get shafted as a Mii or something.

I dont think Mii costumes are a shaft. They are not going to make 20+ original characters for DLC. And Nintendo did not hire enough staff to do so. They have 12 planned. Mii costumes do give series a voice.
 

spicynun

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Hayabusa getting in does not mean Scorpion or Dante will not get in, Joker did not exclude Hero or Byleth after all
Genre aside, two characters from rated M series in one pass seems a bit much based on what we have gotten so far. Anything is possible though, especially since classic Ninja Gaiden isn't M rated.
 

RGFS

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I dont think Mii costumes are a shaft. They are not going to make 20+ original characters for DLC. And Nintendo did not hire enough staff to do so. They have 12 planned. Mii costumes do give series a voice.
I'm personally always cool with a Mii Costume for even series I like the most. 90% of the Smash community seems to see it as a shaft so I felt saying anything else would rub someone the wrong way.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Not as far as I know, though Vergeben said that Koei-Tecmo were in talks with Nintendo. He said earlier (Oct. 2019) that Ryu Hayabusa might be coming as DLC after the first Fighters Pass, but I'm not sure if there have been more concrete leaks beyond that.
Even then, he doesn’t seem 100% sure:
Ryu Hayabusa isn't the 5th character.
I think what might have happened is some people got word that Ryu Hayabusa will be a character coming as DLC but because of hearing his name they assumed he was next.
What's recently come out (on my side and others) prove that was an assumption.

I'm not going to go as far to say Ryu Hayabusa is 100% coming as DLC later.... but at this moment in time it would make some sense of what happened with some internal chaos confusion with insiders and why some like Sabi are like "wait no."
Discussions for him being DLC seemed to be what leaked.
 

3BitSaurus

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Depends. In topics like this, on other smash forums, you can tend to get an idea of fan demand. And many characters are beloved. Steve is beloved.
Okay, so?

Kinda sounds like you're just not acknowledging that people want Hayabusa and he's a legitimate possibility.

Steve or BK or Terry or Hero or whoever being beloved as well isn't a hit against any other character.
 

drag0nscythe

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Okay, so?

Kinda sounds like you're just not acknowledging that people want Hayabusa and he's a legitimate possibility.

Steve or BK or Terry or Hero or whoever being beloved as well isn't a hit against any other character.
No. I acknowledge people want him, but I dont think he is a legitimate possibility. To many characters in his exact same position were Mii skinned.
 

Will

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No. I acknowledge people want him, but I dont think he is a legitimate possibility. To many characters in his exact same position were Mii skinned.
Y'all jump on the bandwagon for Travis one time and now everyone's gonna be a Mii costume. :4pacman:

Please enlighten me. I'd love to see a character like Scorpion in but from what I've seen and heard from him worldwide, I've lost all hope with that one.
You're going to have to give me a few hours of dedication if you want me to give you a bootleg Smashboards article, but the gist is that Mortal Kombat isn't banned in Japan as people online, and for some reason Wikipedia still, claim. You can get MK11 in Japan, it just isn't localized. Mortal Kombat is a juggernaut of the fighting game genre and influential to many other game series. Easiest one off the top of my head is SamSho, it wouldn't exist without MK. Sometimes I question whether people see Smash as a celebration of gaming or a celebration of gaming from Japan specifically to pretend other games don't exist. :dizzy:
 

IsmaR

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A half-dragon, claw wielding, staff spinning, scythe swinging, Izuna dropping Ninja that inspired generations is generic
665e6adfd662c488c10acfec2417f5afe0d79fc3.jpg


Ya forgot sword sheathin', fireball zonin', projectile deflectin', fancy grapplin', shuriken spammin', pajama wearin' ninjy.

But if we're going off generic, he does run to the right, jump and slice just like all these other NES all star wannabes.
 

drag0nscythe

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Y'all jump on the bandwagon for Travis one time and now everyone's gonna be a Mii costume. :4pacman:


You're going to have to give me a few hours of dedication if you want me to give you a bootleg Smashboards article, but the gist is that Mortal Kombat isn't banned in Japan as people online, and for some reason Wikipedia still, claim. You can get MK11 in Japan, it just isn't localized. Mortal Kombat is a juggernaut of the fighting game genre and influential to many other game series. Easiest one off the top of my head is SamSho, it wouldn't exist without MK. Sometimes I question whether people see Smash as a celebration of gaming or a celebration of gaming from Japan specifically to pretend other games don't exist. :dizzy:
I never wanted Travis as playable. But I see Akira, Altair, Ashley, Black Knight, Cuphead, Goemon, Heihachi, Isaac, Saki, Sans, Travis and others and see it happening that way.

Edit: Just read the MK part. Whilst I agree that MK is important, I can never get past the violence part. It is very well known for its violence. And that is not a Nintendo thing.
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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What if he gets Mii Skinned?
I’d be disappointed but in a game where I got more than I reasonably could’ve asked for I’d be fine with that. I got Snake back, K. Rool, Ridley, Simon, Banjo, and even wonderful surprises like Terry and Steve. The game was perfect after Simon and K. Rool. Everything else has been and always will be gravy for me.
 

Goombaic

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But I see Akira, Altair, Ashley, Black Knight, Cuphead, Goemon, Heihachi, Isaac, Saki, Sans, Travis and others and see it happening that way.
What? What is the line of reasoning behind this, because all I'm getting from you is that characters that are often requested might become Miis instead, which would apply to every single speculated character so I doubt that's what you mean.
 

Will

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Hayabusa is about as likely as anyone else, but I think he would be received with open arms.

He's also a goddamn ninja with ninjutsu and izuna drop, it's like Sheik but he can kill without having to put the opponent at 200% first. :secretkpop:
 

drag0nscythe

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What? What is the line of reasoning behind this, because all I'm getting from you is that characters that are often requested might become Miis instead, which would apply to every single speculated character so I doubt that's what you mean.
They have limited space. And most requested characters WILL be mii costumed. Which ones is a guessing game. Thinking Ryu is a certain even though he has not been relevant for years, has had no real new games in years and is only really speculated because of smash speculation is not someone I put confidence in.
 

Will

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Thinking Ryu is a certain even though he has not been relevant for years, has had no real new games in years and is only really speculated because of smash speculation is not someone I put confidence in.
It's called legacy. That's why they're usually called legacy characters. Because they did something amazing or influential in their time with kickass games. Hayabusa is a character met with constant praise when they talk about him. NG is just a good series, and this man is in DoA, got a whole Terry situation.

Believe what you want man, but it's your L to hold if it comes to fruition. :186:
 
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3BitSaurus

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I never wanted Travis as playable. But I see Akira, Altair, Ashley, Black Knight, Cuphead, Goemon, Heihachi, Isaac, Saki, Sans, Travis and others and see it happening that way.

Edit: Just read the MK part. Whilst I agree that MK is important, I can never get past the violence part. It is very well known for its violence. And that is not a Nintendo thing.
Most of these were base game costumes (or PreMiium indies), though. The only Mii Costumes in DLC that are anywhere close to Ryu's situation are Goemon, Heihachi and Travis - and even then the former is more niche than NG, and Heihachi is a costume returning from 4. So really it was just Travis.
 
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StarBot

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I don't think that Sakurai sees it that way.
I dont think anyone should see it that way. They have limited resources and are certainly not going to make every character original. I am happy certain characters were at least acknowledged.
This, but then you get people this thinking a 99 cent costume was meant to be a personal attack
“Well, at least they are in the game” is literally the most annoying thing a person can say when you are upset about a Mii costume, imo. Like no, they aren’t in the game, their likeness can be attatched to ****ty Mii characters, that’s not them in the game at all. Sometimes it’s best to say nothing, or just “yeah that sucks”.
 
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drag0nscythe

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It's called legacy. That's why they're usually called legacy characters. Because they did something amazing or influential in their time with kickass games. Hayabusa is a character met with constant praise when they talk about him. NG is just a good series, and this man is in DoA, got a whole Terry situation.

Believe what you want man, but it's your L to hold if it comes to fruition. :186:
I think Legacy is overrated. And it does not really mean anything given we have Joker, Blyeth, MinMin and Steve. For the Terry situation. Not really. Terry was still in a game as recent as 2/3 years ago. More of a Banjo situation, but with people only jumping on him because of a leaker saying his name.

Most of these were base game costumes (or PreMiium indies), though. The only Mii Costumes in DLC that are anywhere close to Ryu's situation are Goemon, Heihachi and Travis - and even then the former is arguably more niche than NG, and Heihachi is a costume returning from 4. So really it was just Travis.
Most of the base characters were in the same boat. If we go with DLC, arguing whom is/is not more niche is a loosing battle.

This, but then you get people this thinking a 99 cent costume was meant to be a personal attack
And I still think those people are crazy.
 
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Wunderwaft

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They have limited space. And most requested characters WILL be mii costumed. Which ones is a guessing game. Thinking Ryu is a certain even though he has not been relevant for years, has had no real new games in years and is only really speculated because of smash speculation is not someone I put confidence in.
tbf we've already gotten various characters in Ultimate that fit the same description you've made. No one is saying Ryu is a lock but he does have some things pointing towards his favor compared to other characters. Koei Tecmo has had a really good relationship with Nintendo and according to Vergeben they have been in talks with Nintendo over Smash. Ryu has both classic and modern fans thanks to his modern action game reboot, his legacy spans generations. We've also heard Ninja Gaiden has some form of revival coming next year, which fits what Team Ninja said earlier about them being interested in tackling Ninja Gaiden again. Sure he could get mii costumed, but so could every other character so it's kind of a moot point.
 

7NATOR

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Speaking of Mii costumes, I think we gonna see more NEW AT Mii costumes like Squid Sisters and Bomberman

Shovel Knight is usually agreed upon as likely Mii Costume in future, but what about Waluigi, If he's not Playable like usual...
 

Will

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I think Legacy is overrated. And it does not really mean anything given we have Joker, Blyeth, MinMin and Steve.

Legacy is selectively important to specific characters, and Hayabusa is one of them where it shines like Mega Man or Simon. It isn't supposed to say "Hayabusa deserves it because of legacy", it's just supposed to say "Hayabusa is a ****ing legend in gaming".

For the Terry situation. Not really. Terry was still in a game as recent as 2/3 years ago. More of a Banjo situation, but with people only jumping on him because of a leaker saying his name.
No, I meant Hayabusa was just in other games that weren't his own, like how Terry is in KoF. I agree that it is a Banjo situation in the sense of it being nostalgia, but I don't think Shinobu leaking him less than a day before his reveal had any impact on people wanting him than nostalgia-ridden dudes who have been supporting Banjo for over a decade.

It's fine if you can't fathom why people think Hayabusa is likely or if you think he isn't. But at least recognize what makes people desire him or think he has a shot, whether it be Koei doing stuff in Smash or just the fact that Ninja Gaiden was an extremely successful series with unprecedented praise still years later.
 
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