Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Rie Sonomura

‘cuz that’s what the baddest do
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So I watched Higurashi Gou and it'd make me wonder about having a When They Cry rep in Smash.

Mainly Rena from Higurashi or Battler/Beatrice from Umineko. Visual Novels are games so they should be viable too.
Battler is basically Phoenix Wright but with the supernatural and I’m all for it
 

Sc_Ev0lution

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So I watched Higurashi Gou and it'd make me wonder about having a When They Cry rep in Smash.

Mainly Rena from Higurashi or Battler/Beatrice from Umineko. Visual Novels are games so they should be viable too.
It's gotta be Rena. I wanna see how the anti-anime swordsmen crowd would react to a meat cleaver.
 

GoodGrief741

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I think it comes from the fact that GTA is quite possibly the most infamous violent video game in history that has caused multiple panics among parents and it's name immediately evokes negative connotations for those types of people, and even for a number of people who are generally OK with stuff in video games find GTA reaching the limits of it. The only reason GTA hasn't had a controversy in years is because there hasn't been a new GTA in years, but GTAV was absolutely a controversial as hell single player experience. The game has you literally participate in a graphic torture scene while also having Trevor be this incredibly violent psychopath (which is the point, but it takes it to the point of excess) and his character is used to turn sexually assaulting another guy who is straight into a punch line multiple times in the game. Yes, that's unfortunately on brand for GTAV, but even if we get past the "think of the children" types, GTA is a really ****ing problematic series on multiple levels that has a reputation. There's no empowerment to any of it and it's commentary on society that sometimes gets attributed to it as a strength is absolutely at its weakest in GTAV where any commentary was immediately undercut by its design philosophy. Let's no whitewash how awful GTA can actually be and it's often mean spirited in its commentary still (and according to workers at Rockstar, the product of an incredibly toxic and unsustainable work environment).

Now Nintendo doesn't probably look at the empowerment angle when including Bayonetta, but Bayonetta is an unknown quantity relative to many people and her connotations are more easily navigated for inclusion in a fighting game. The second Smash Bros. X GTA comes up, you've unleashed pandora's box on to Smash and the ESRB isn't going to be kind considering they won't even seemingly allow the names of M rated games to begin with that aren't problematic in the same way the literal words Grand Theft Auto are. GTA's tendency to embrace everything controversial means there's no way around everything. Like, even if you somehow decide that GTA's controversy is not a road block, what do you do about character design? They have to use real life weapons for everything and the character will be literally grounded in real life violence for attacks if you're going to properly represent GTA at all.

GTA being a bridge too far for playable content doesn't surprise me in the least bit, there's just no real way around it being so infamous. Also, the Devil's Third content did get cut, so that's not really a point in favor of GTA in Smash to begin with.
I think Western culture's changed a lot since 2013 and I don't see GTA and especially not Smash being the center of a controversy anymore.

I agree that coming up with a moveset would be hard for a game with GTA's mechanics though. But, at the same time, it's GTA. It would be a huge deal and Nintendo knows it, so if they get their hands on the license they won't let moveset issues get in the way.
 

StrangeKitten

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On the Sora stuff, it's worth remembering that devs likely meet up a lot to make sure the character is to their liking before release.
Have you ever wondered what a Five Nights at Freddy's stage would probably be like in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate? No? Well too bad, because my fall break and quarantine have just started so now I'm doing things to entertain myself (which unfortunately can't be going though my backlog because the Switch isn't within my quarantine zone). So why a Five Nights at Freddy's stage in particular? Because I personally like the series, and I wanted to think about what Freddy could hypothetically bring to the game besides himself. Maybe later I'll do a moveset for him. Or someone else. Or another potential stage for a different game.

Anyway, the stage idea I have in mind right now is The Office from Five Nights at Freddy's: Ultimate Custom Night. The general gist is that it combines the classic gameplay loop of Five Nights at Freddy's with Super Smash Bros. gameplay, with a few intractable stage elements that you'll use to keep the animatronics out as you duke it out. You could also ignore them and deal with their assault like they're normal stage hazards. Some of them are pretty dangerous though, so I wouldn't recommend doing that for all of them.

The stage depicts a cluttered office space filled with restaurant and animatronic paraphernalia. The stage’s bottom platform extends its entire length, so players can continually walk until they hit the blast zone and get K.O.’ed. Above the floor are three shelves that act as platforms, and their layout is similar to that of Battlefield’s. On each side of the stage are two large door frames that lead outside the room. The camera will not follow players who walk through them, but you can walk a short distance before being K.O.’ed.

Above these door frames are walls that extend to the top of the stage. There are also air ducts at the top of the stage that are placed in a way that they would divide the room into equal thirds if they extended to the floor. They also act as walls and ceilings, though it is possible to launch opponents up the ducts for a K.O. if you’re precise enough. Attacking the ducts gets rid of this option by busting them up. Doing so also causes the room to heat up. More on that later. Steve uses a shovel to mine the floor and walls, which count as stone, and a pickaxe to mine the shelves, air ducts, and the doors (when closed), which count as iron.

One thing that players would immediately notice upon playing on the stage would be the odd camera. It has a slight fish eye lens effect* (for lack of a better term, unless that’s actually what it is), causing the entire stage to seem to rotate as it pans from left to right. The camera is also fixed, and will not zoom in or out, or pan up or down. It will only turn from side to side. The camera will attempt to focus on the mid-point between the left-most and right-most players, though it won’t move past the doors by much, even if someone is standing in the hallway. Screen and Star K.O.’s are not possible on this stage, and the rotating effect is not present on the Battlefield and Ω forms of the stage.

On the wall in the middle of the room, there is a large monitor that shows camera footage of various locations from within the Five Nights at Freddy’s series, occasionally changing cameras on its own. This is where the stage hazards come in. In front of the doors, the monitor, and on the top shelf in front of an air vent are large buttons that players can stand on in order to activate them. The door & vent buttons shuts its respective lockdown style door until it stops being pressed, and drains power from the building. Losing power makes the stage pitch black for a few moments before resetting. Pressing the monitor button changes what camera it displays until it’s pressed again, always opting for the most important one. These are your major defenses against the animatronics.

A random number of random animatronics will appear, usually to attack you. The only rhyme or reason to one appearing any given time you visit the stage, is that the odds of one appearing are weighted slightly higher when a song from a game they have appeared in is currently playing. I will be acronyming these titles from here on out, so here they are in full: Five Nights at Freddy’s, Five Nights at Freddy’s 2, Five Nights at Freddy’s 3, Five Nights at Freddy’s 4, Five Nights at Freddy’s: Sister Location, FNaF World, Five Nights at Freddy’s: Pizzeria Simulator, Five Nights at Freddy’s: Ultimate Custom Night, Five Nights at Freddy’s VR: Help Wanted, and Five Nights at Freddy’s AR**. The animatronics are as follows:

Door Animatronics
  • Bonnie (FNaF, FNaF: UCN, FNaF VR, FNaF AR): The lights will randomly flip on in the left doorway, alerting players to his presence along with an audio cue. The player must close that door quickly in order to stop him from attacking. If he attacks, he’ll smash his guitar on the nearest opponent.
  • Chica (FNaF, FNaF: UCN, FNaF VR, FnaF AR): Does the same thing as Bonnie, but she appears on the right side, and when attacking, she’ll throw her cupcake at you.
  • Nightmare Fredbear (FNaF 4, FNaF: UCN): Sometimes menacing eyes will peer at you from beyond the left doorway. If this happens, do not attempt to close that door. If you get too close, Nightmare Fredbear will grab you, and deal a ton of damage. Nightmare Fredbear will go away on his own if you leave him alone.
  • Nightmare (FNaF 4, FNaF: UCN): Sometimes menacing eyes will peer at you from beyond the right doorway. If this happens, do not attempt to close that door. If you get too close, Nightmare will grab you, and deal a ton of damage. If you get over 100%, this is an instant K.O. Nightmare will go away on his own if you leave him alone.
Vent Animatronics
  • Balloon Boy (FNaF 2, FNaF: UCN, FNaF VR, FNaF AR): He will sometimes show up in the vent if nobody else is there. If the players don’t close it fast enough, he will climb out of it and laugh at the players as he disables the monitor.
  • Mangle (FNaF 2, FNaF: UCN, FNaF VR, FNaF AR): She will sometimes show up in the vent if nobody else is there. If the players don’t close it fast enough, he will climb out of it and up the wall in the background to the top of the screen and make racket before leaving through one of the air ducts. If a player gets too close to him as he does this, she will bite them.
  • JJ (FNaF 2, FNaF: UCN): He will sometimes show up in the vent if nobody else is there. If the players don’t close it fast enough, he will climb out of it and laugh at the players as he disables the door buttons.
  • Springtrap (FNaF 3, FNaF: UCN, FNaF VR, FNaF AR): He will sometimes show up in the vent if nobody else is there. If the players don’t close it fast enough, he will climb out of it and roam around as he attacks players similar to Foxy. Unlike Foxy however, he won’t leave until a predetermined amount of time. Springtrap becomes more aggressive after a noisy animatronic is triggered.
  • Ennard (FNaF: SL, FNaF: UCN, FNaF VR): Ennard can appear in the vent if nobody is there. If he does, close it quickly before he inches out. Once he does, he will grab the first player who goes in front of him, and if they do not mash out quickly, he will pull them in, instantly K.O.’ing them.
Monitor Animatronics
  • Foxy (FNaF, FNaF: UCN, FNaF VR, FNaF AR): Foxy resides on Pirate Cove in the cameras. If Pirate Cove is shown to be empty, then close the left door, or he will get inside the room, and roam across the stage until he gets a player with his hook. This attack is very powerful.
  • Golden Freddy (FNaF, FNaF 2, FNaF 3, FNaF: UCN): If Golden Freddy appears on the monitor, quickly switch the camera, or it will shift to a black screen with just his face one it, and release a shockwave that deals high damage and knockback to whoever gets hit by it. The attack is very similar to Tabuu’s Off Wave attack.
  • Toy Freddy (FNaF 2, FNaF: UCN, FNaF VR, FNaF AR): He does the same thing as Foxy, but instead of appearing in Pirate Cove, he’s holed up in his room playing Super Smash Bros. on the Nintendo 64. If he’s gone, and you see a game over screen on his T.V., close the right door, or he’ll run across the room while flailing his arms like a pinwheel. He doesn’t linger like Foxy though, as he’s not trying to hurt you, he’s just angry.
  • Phantom Balloon Boy (FNaF 3, FNaF: UCN): If he appears on the monitor, change the camera it displays before he attacks the players in the same manner as Golden Freddy. Luckily, Phantom Balloon Boy doesn’t do any damage; he just stuns the players, and makes a loud noise. His attack radius is also much shorter.
  • Phantom Foxy (FNaF 3): If he appears on the monitor, change the camera it displays before he leaps out of it, stunning the closest player, and making a loud noise.
  • Phantom Marionette (FNaF 3): If she appears on the monitor, change the camera it displays as soon as possible. If a player passes in front of the monitor while she’s on it, she will leap out of it and slow that player down.
  • Phantom Mangle (FNaF 3): If he appears on the monitor, change the camera it displays before she climbs out of it, up to the ceiling, and makes a bunch of racket before she fades away.
  • Funtime Foxy (FNaF: SL, FNaF: UCN, FNaF VR): Funtime Foxy will appear on his own show stage with a sign giving a specific time. You must change the camera on the monitor before the timer hits this number, or he will come running across the room the second it does, chucking the first player he comes across through the door behind him.
In-Room Animatronics
  • Marionette (FNaF 2, FNaF: UCN, FNaF VR): A large gift box will appear in the background to the left of the monitor with a glowing radius around it if she is active. Players must stand in the radius to keep the gauge above it full. The gauge empties pretty slowly, and fills pretty quickly, but if players ignore it for too long, Marionette will slowly rise from the present, and leap at the closest fighter to deal massive damage. It is faint, but you can hear the Marionette’s music box when the gauge isn’t empty.
  • Withered Foxy (FNaF 2, FNaF: VR): When he’s active, and the monitor isn’t looking at Pirate’s Cove, his body parts will fly in from the doors while they’re open, or simply appear in areas in the room that are off-screen. Players can pick these up and throw them at each other, or better yet, out of the room. If all of Withered Foxy’s parts are allowed in the room, he will form up like a Dry Bones, and attack in the same manner as Foxy.
  • Nightmare Freddy (FNaF 4, FNaF: UCN): Tiny screaming Freddy plush things called Freddles will appear on parts of the stage that aren’t onscreen if Nightmare Freddy is active, and can be attacked to get rid of them. If players let three of them congregate for too long, Nightmare Freddy spawns in, and attacks nearby players for tons of damage as he paces about the room, leaving only after a predetermined time limit.
  • Nightmarion (FNaF 4, FNaF: UCN, FNaF VR): Nightmarion’s translucent image will sometimes fade in onscreen if she’s active. If you linger in this image for too long, she will materialize, and will attack the player(s) that triggered her.
  • Circus Baby (FNaF: SL, FNaF: UCN, FNaF VR, FNaF AR): A little plush of her will appear somewhere on the stage a short while before she appears. Players must throw her plushy at her to keep her from attacking. If you stand next to her instead of throwing the plush, she will attack with her scooper regardless of how much time has passed. If you’re a monster and throw her plushy out of the room first, she will attack single out the player who did it.
  • Mediocre Melodies (FNaF: PS, FNaF: UCN): When they’re active, the vent will sometimes shake. Attack the vent to close it preventing one of the Mediocre Melodies from falling out, hurting anyone they fall on.
  • Rockstar Freddy (FNaF: PS, FNaF: UCN): When he’s active, he will be standing to the right of the monitor. Every so often, he will boot up, and ask that you deposit a certain number of coins dependant on how many players there are. When this happens, the players must collect enough coins, and walk over to him to appease him. If the room gets too hot, he will deactivate on his own, but that’s also when the Jack o’ animatronics show up.
  • Rockstar Foxy (FNaF: PS, FNaF: UCN): His bird will fly around the room for a bit before leaving. If a player attacks it, there is a 50% chance that they will be presented with an item, and a 50% chance they will be attacked by Rockstar Foxy.
  • Rockstar Chica (FNaF: PS, FNaF: UCN): A wet floor sign will appear in the room before Rockstar Chica does. Throw it at her to stop her assault, or don’t and face the consequences.
Special Animatronics
  • Freddy (FNaF, FNaF: UCN, FNaF VR, FNaF AR): Freddy only appears if nobody is playing as him (assuming he’s playable), and even then he only appears if the power runs out. Should the power run out, Freddy’s face will illuminate in the right doorway as he plays his signature tune. The song lasts for a random amount of time before it and the light shuts off. After a random amount of time in silence, Freddy will make a screeching sound and attack everyone in the dark. The lights will come back on in the aftermath.
  • Phone Guy (FNaF, FNaF 2, FNaF 3, FNaF: UCN, FNaF VR): When the Phone Guy “appears”, you will hear a phone ring, and see a “Mute Call” icon appear somewhere on the stage. Players can attack this icon to stop the call. If they don’t, they will hear a guy prattle on about the various active animatronics, indirectly revealing how they work. If there are any sound-sensitive animatronics active, they will become more aggressive.
  • Jack o’ Bonnie & Jack o’ Chica: The two will appear on the left and right doorways respectively when the room gets too hot. They will instantly K.O. any players outside of the room, deal a ton of contact damage, and set the two bottom shelf platforms alight until the room cools down again.
  • Dee Dee (FNaF World, FNaF: UCN): Dee Dee will appear in front of the camera and sing a little song. When it ends, a new animatronic will unfortunately be after you. She’s the only animatronic that is always active, and there are even animatronics that will only activate because of her, so be vigilant.
  • Trash & The Gang (FNaF: PS, FNaF: UCN): Wat? No. 1 Crate will sometimes distract players by jump scaring them, and the rest of them just cover up the cameras every so often. None of them actually hurt you.
  • El Chip (FNaF: PS, FNaF: UCN): An ad for his restaurant will pop up every once in a while. This just blocks your view.
  • XOR (FNaF: UCN): This Dee Dee recolor only appears when all animatronics are active (and replaces Dee Dee in such a scenario). She activates all of the Dee Dee animatronics at once.
Dee Dee Animatronics
  • RWQFSFASXC (FNaF 2, FNaF: UCN, FNaF AR): Yeah I dunno what this name is either. RWQFSFASXC will only appear when summoned by Dee Dee. When summoned by her, he will plunge the room in darkness for a few seconds. The only things you will be able to see are his glowing eyes and teeth. Once he’s gone, he will not come back.
  • Plushtrap (FNaF 4, FNaF: UCN, FNaF VR): He will only appear when summoned by Dee Dee, and will immediately attack when he is summoned. One of the vents will start to shake violently. Attack it to bust it up, preventing Plushtrap from falling out of it, and running around and slashing any players in his path. Once he’s gone, he will not come back.
  • Minirina (FNaF: SL, FNaF: UCN, FNaF AR): They will only appear if summoned by Dee Dee. When summoned, a bunch of them will crawl onto the screen, blocking your view for a bit. Once they’re gone, they will not come back.
  • Electro Bab (FNaF: SL): After being summoned, bunch of them will eventually come into the room and drain it of its power through the buttons. Attack them to get rid of them. Once they’re gone, they will not come back.
  • Bonnet (FNaF: SL, FNaF: UCN, FNaF VR): She toddles along the floor, and if she reaches the other side of the room, she will leap at the closest player, and attack them like a Pikmin. She can be interrupted before and during this attack with pretty much any attack, so feel free to punt her across the stage.
  • Glitchtrap (FNaF: VR): After he has been summoned, he will sometimes appear on the monitor. If you don’t switch the cameras quick enough, he will do something random like flipping the screen, randomizing each fighter’s percentages, swapping their places, etc.
*This effect is the most accurate, but if it turns out to be a terrible idea in general, then it can be removed/not implemented without sacrificing much. Not all of the Five Nights at Freddy’s games even have it; it’s just more common than not at the moment. As long as it looks like the camera is turning rather than moving from side to side, it’ll work.

**Five Nights at Freddy’s: Security Breach is not out yet, so I won’t be mentioning any animatronics from that game. Pretty much all of the characters prior to FNaF SL appear in FNaF World, but I don’t think these are the same entities, so I won’t list FNaF World as an animatronic’s appearance if they debut elsewhere. Animatronics that are likely the same entity, but listed separately in FNaF: UCN will be listed separately here as well.

Now, I know this might sound like a lot, but the animatronics generally wouldn't be active all at the same time (in fact, I'd make it a pretty rare occurrence with the option to force it by holding both triggers or something), and a lot of them are dealt with in the same, or a similar fashion.

Also, I didn't include Ballora or Funtime Freddy because their most well known mechanics are both sound based. Having players listen to see if a quiet music box song is coming from the left or right while you hear a louder song alongside all of the characters being noisy is a terrible idea, and while Funtime Freddy is much louder and easier to deal with, he still has no warning if you're deaf or the sound is off.

I guess that's it for now...
Broke: Playing 4/20 in FNAF
Woke: Playing 50/20 in Ultimate Custom Night
Bespoke: Playing 50/20 while playing Smash
 

SharkLord

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On the topic of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 designs, I don't think they're entirely unsalvageable, but some of them wouldn't suffer from a couple touch-ups here and there. Pyra's outfit should be shifted around so that it isn't overly jarring or distracting (Mainly the chest area), and Rex feels like his chest should have some more armor to go with the limbs.

On that note, could I have some examples of a Rex moveset? I haven't played XC2, do I'm not sure how they'd work. I know that the Driver handles the normal moves and the Blades do the specials, but would Pyra/Mythra be following Rex, or would they sit in the background, like with Pokemon Trainer and the Crafting Tables? Would they just use specials wherever, or would they need to build up to it? Stuff like that.
 

StrangeKitten

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On the topic of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 designs, I don't think they're entirely unsalvageable, but some of them wouldn't suffer from a couple touch-ups here and there. Pyra's outfit should be shifted around so that it isn't overly jarring or distracting (Mainly the chest area), and Rex feels like his chest should have some more armor to go with the limbs.

On that note, could I have some examples of a Rex moveset? I haven't played XC2, do I'm not sure how they'd work. I know that the Driver handles the normal moves and the Blades do the specials, but would Pyra/Mythra be following Rex, or would they sit in the background, like with Pokemon Trainer and the Crafting Tables? Would they just use specials wherever, or would they need to build up to it? Stuff like that.
Here's Delzethin Delzethin 's take:
 

TheBeastHimself

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I think Western culture's changed a lot since 2013 and I don't see GTA and especially not Smash being the center of a controversy anymore.

I agree that coming up with a moveset would be hard for a game with GTA's mechanics though. But, at the same time, it's GTA. It would be a huge deal and Nintendo knows it, so if they get their hands on the license they won't let moveset issues get in the way.
I feel like the one thing holding back a potential GTA character is just how offensive the games can be. Sure, we have M-rated characters in Smash already, but GTA is a whole 'nother level of mature. Characters that hail from games full of gore, violence, swearing, and partial nudity have the ability to make it in as we've seen. But what about games that involve prostitution, stereotypes, offensive commentary on real world issues, and relentless vulgarity?

I'm not saying GTA is impossible for Smash. But framework of the franchise is to be antithesis of what Nintendo usually approves of. I mean, Smash is one of the most iconic Nintendo franchises. Would they be fine having a ****ing GTA rep marketed to that wide of an audience, under their branding?

This could end up as one of those posts that were dead wrong in the future, and part of me expects it, but as of right now, I feel like GTA is way too vulgar to be suitable for representation in Smash.
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
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What would a GTA fighter even do that is actually interesting aside from “lots of guns”?

The thing with a Call of Duty fighter or GTA fighter, despite how large both games are, is that they really don’t have much to stand out or be interesting.

At least that’s why I have little to no interest in either pick.

After all, no matter the legacy of a game or character, if you’re not going to bring something new and interesting moveset wise to Smash, why bother? What would the stages even offer? Hookers and blow? Car chases and helicopters? War crimes? A 360 no scope? Definitely sounds like a game for good boys and girls.
 
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GoodGrief741

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I feel like the one thing holding back a potential GTA character is just how offensive the games can be. Sure, we have M-rated characters in Smash already, but GTA is a whole 'nother level of mature. Characters that hail from games full of gore, violence, swearing, and partial nudity have the ability to make it in as we've seen. But what about games that involve prostitution, stereotypes, offensive commentary on real world issues, and relentless vulgarity?

I'm not saying GTA is impossible for Smash. But framework of the franchise is to be antithesis of what Nintendo usually approves of. I mean, Smash is one of the most iconic Nintendo franchises. Would they be fine having a ****ing GTA rep marketed to that wide of an audience, under their branding?

This could end up as one of those posts that were dead wrong in the future, and part of me expects it, but as of right now, I feel like GTA is way too vulgar to be suitable for representation in Smash.
I disagree. I mean, we already have franchises with stereotypes, real world commentary, and vulgar content in Smash. And people certainly feel that other franchises with such content are plausible.
you know

I don’t see Shantae discussed much in here despite her topic being one of the top topics
I just assumed that Matt Bozon had asked fans to campaign for Shantae once more, inadvertently showing she's disconfirmed due to the absence of an NDA.

I don't know if it happened for this Pass yet, but it happens so often that it's my default assumption.
 

PeridotGX

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update on the GSR, because I think it's kinda interesting seeing how this site goes, it's a slice of a much bigger Smash fanbase.
1602988405850.png

TF2 continues to overwhelm the poll (3/12 of the top 12 are TF2 characters, and Engineer is Number 13). Aside from that... the Knight is way higher than I would've expected.
 

TheBeastHimself

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I disagree. I mean, we already have franchises with stereotypes, real world commentary, and vulgar content in Smash. And people certainly feel that other franchises with such content are plausible.
I'm not sure why in my head I put GTA up on this pedestal of ultimate vulgarity, but that's just my mindset at the moment I guess.
 

NordicOS

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How's it going everyone. Back in the old Smash 4 days, I had 3 dream characters I wanted to see in Smash. Those 3 characters were Banjo & Kazooie, Steve, and Rayman. I was 11 at the time, and these 3 were the only characters I really knew that weren't already in the game. My knowledge on games wasn't much then, but it has greatly increased since then, due in large part to Smash. Anyways, I hope that with Ultimate, I get to see my dream fully realized, as it's already 2/3 of the way there. So, really the only character I want going forward is Rayman. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
 

spicynun

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update on the GSR, because I think it's kinda interesting seeing how this site goes, it's a slice of a much bigger Smash fanbase.
View attachment 289550
TF2 continues to overwhelm the poll (3/12 of the top 12 are TF2 characters, and Engineer is Number 13). Aside from that... the Knight is way higher than I would've expected.
Warms my heart seeing Phoenix so high.
 

Dinoman96

Smash Lord
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you know

I don’t see Shantae discussed much in here despite her topic being one of the top topics
I imagine most of us figure she isn't going to happen, considering that Undertale, Shovel Knight and Cuphead are all much more popular indie games than her and the most they could muster were Mii costumes (and an AT in Shovel Knight's case).
 

BernkastelWitch

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So I watched Higurashi Gou and it'd make me wonder about having a When They Cry rep in Smash.

Mainly Rena from Higurashi or Battler/Beatrice from Umineko. Visual Novels are games so they should be viable too.
I hear When They Cry so I am summoned. Hello. As extremely unlikely as it'd be, Rena or Beatrice would be dope and fun.
 

Goombaic

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On that note, could I have some examples of a Rex moveset? I haven't played XC2, do I'm not sure how they'd work. I know that the Driver handles the normal moves and the Blades do the specials, but would Pyra/Mythra be following Rex, or would they sit in the background, like with Pokemon Trainer and the Crafting Tables? Would they just use specials wherever, or would they need to build up to it? Stuff like that.
There's actually a lot of differing opinions when it comes to that. Personally, I would like for Rex to fight with Pyra following him in the background, while some people want Rex and Pyra to both be on the battlefield, and others want either just Rex or Pyra to be the fighter, etc.
 

SharkLord

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you know

I don’t see Shantae discussed much in here despite her topic being one of the top topics
I think it's because of the shift in indie speculation. Heavy hitters like Shovel Knight, Undertale, and Cuphead (The latter of which is apparently bigger than I realized) were either Mii'd or snowglobed, so people have become pretty pessimistic for indies. The only one I see regularly anymore is Reimu, and she's still pretty contentious thanks to Touhou's Japan-centric nature (Though that might have something to do with my personal preferences). Quote, the Knight and Freddy are sometimes brought up, but they don't seem to be as common. Seeing as Shantae only started picking up around the mid-2010's and has languished in cult classic limbo for more than half of her franchise's existence, I think she's been overshadowed by her competition, and even more so by the indies that fell short.
 

Michael the Spikester

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I’d love to get Shantae but I think we will see goku before we see her in smash
That's an exaggeration. At least Shantae originates as a video game character. Any video game character would come before Goku. Sakurai has gone up to say non-video game characters are out of the running.
 

DuskFleur

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On a more positive topic, what references would you guys want your most-wanted character to have if they get into Smash? Whether it be in their moveset or in their animations (including Victory Screens).

For me, I'd want Sora to have a unique character icon during matches, like the UI in the original KH games. Like, he'd still have his normal promo render on the character select screen and whatnot, but specifically during a battle, his character icon is a different render of just his head that changes like it does in the original games (one for normal, one for being damaged, and another for being at critical damage). For the "critical damage" one in particular, along with the smoke that emits from fighters' icons when they have high damage, maybe it can flash red? It'd exclude the loud beeping from the original KH games, since that would probably be VERY grating for other players.

Or if Crash becomes a character, maybe he can have his weird "victory dance" as a victory screen, or one where "missed boxes" fall repeatedly on top of him? Maybe if he gets KO'd via bottom blast zone, his shoes would fly up before falling down during the explosion?
 

Idon

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On a more positive topic, what references would you guys want your most-wanted character to have if they get into Smash? Whether it be in their moveset or in their animations (including Victory Screens).

For me, I'd want Sora to have a unique character icon during matches, like the UI in the original KH games. Like, he'd still have his normal promo render on the character select screen and whatnot, but specifically during a battle, his character icon is a different render of just his head that changes like it does in the original games (one for normal, one for being damaged, and another for being at critical damage). For the "critical damage" one in particular, along with the smoke that emits from fighters' icons when they have high damage, maybe it can flash red? It'd exclude the loud beeping from the original KH games, since that would probably be VERY grating for other players.

Or if Crash becomes a character, maybe he can have his weird "victory dance" as a victory screen, or one where "missed boxes" fall repeatedly on top of him? Maybe if he gets KO'd via bottom blast zone, his shoes would fly up before falling down during the explosion?
Dante has a style meter show up next to his stock icon that increases as he does consecutive hits against his enemies and avoids getting hit himself, along with increasing as he taunts.

It has no actual effect on gameplay.
 

DuskFleur

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Dante has a style meter show up next to his stock icon that increases as he does consecutive hits against his enemies and avoids getting hit himself, along with increasing as he taunts.

It has no actual effect on gameplay.
You could say the style meter is just...for style?

But yeah, that'd be cool! Maybe after long combo strings he can have little letter rankings appear too?
 

RetrogamerMax

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I imagine most of us figure she isn't going to happen, considering that Undertale, Shovel Knight and Cuphead are all much more popular indie games than her and the most they could muster were Mii costumes (and an AT in Shovel Knight's case).
But Shantae has seniority over all of them and has 5 games while those guys only have one. Popularity isn't the only factor in inclusion decision. Not saying Shantae is going to happen, but she has seniority and moveset potential to be chosen over the rest to be the Indie rep despite her games not being as popular.
 

inksaver

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On a more positive topic, what references would you guys want your most-wanted character to have if they get into Smash? Whether it be in their moveset or in their animations (including Victory Screens).

For me, I'd want Sora to have a unique character icon during matches, like the UI in the original KH games. Like, he'd still have his normal promo render on the character select screen and whatnot, but specifically during a battle, his character icon is a different render of just his head that changes like it does in the original games (one for normal, one for being damaged, and another for being at critical damage). For the "critical damage" one in particular, along with the smoke that emits from fighters' icons when they have high damage, maybe it can flash red? It'd exclude the loud beeping from the original KH games, since that would probably be VERY grating for other players.

Or if Crash becomes a character, maybe he can have his weird "victory dance" as a victory screen, or one where "missed boxes" fall repeatedly on top of him? Maybe if he gets KO'd via bottom blast zone, his shoes would fly up before falling down during the explosion?
Jill Valentine having the health bar status near her icon. As the numbers go higher it changes from “fine” “caution” “danger”. and maybe “poison” with certain conditions.
 

PeridotGX

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On a more positive topic, what references would you guys want your most-wanted character to have if they get into Smash? Whether it be in their moveset or in their animations (including Victory Screens).

For me, I'd want Sora to have a unique character icon during matches, like the UI in the original KH games. Like, he'd still have his normal promo render on the character select screen and whatnot, but specifically during a battle, his character icon is a different render of just his head that changes like it does in the original games (one for normal, one for being damaged, and another for being at critical damage). For the "critical damage" one in particular, along with the smoke that emits from fighters' icons when they have high damage, maybe it can flash red? It'd exclude the loud beeping from the original KH games, since that would probably be VERY grating for other players.

Or if Crash becomes a character, maybe he can have his weird "victory dance" as a victory screen, or one where "missed boxes" fall repeatedly on top of him? Maybe if he gets KO'd via bottom blast zone, his shoes would fly up before falling down during the explosion?
If Frisk gets in, I want them to have a codec/guidence-esque thing where they call the Undertale cast comments who comment on the fighters or the stage. Character dialog is one of the big selling point, and it'd be neat to see that dialog playing off of other series.

1602995670780.png

1602995732766.png
 

ZelDan

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But Shantae has seniority over all of them and has 5 games while those guys only have one. Popularity isn't the only factor in inclusion decision. Not saying Shantae is going to happen, but she has seniority and moveset potential to be chosen over the rest to be the Indie rep despite her games not being as popular.
Eh, for Shovel Knight you could argue Specter of Torment (Specter Knight DLC) and King of Cards (King Knight DLC) could count as their own games considering that, well, they basically ARE different games really. I believe both are even sold seperately, or atleast I know Specter of Torment was, don't know/remember if King of Cards is.

Of Course this isn't even to mention that new Shovel Knight Dig game coming and also that new puzzle game.

and while not the same thing, I still think it's important to bring up the ****load of crossover Shovel Knight has had with other indie games, with some even being playable appearances like with Rivals of Aether.

So yeah Shovel knight has way more than "just 1 game" going for him at this point.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Eh, for Shovel Knight you could argue Specter of Torment (specter KNight DLC) and King of Cards (King Knight DLC) could count as their own games considering that, well, they basically ARE different games really. I believe both are even sold seperately, or atleast I know SPecter of Torment was, don't know/remember if King of Cards is.

Of Course this isn't even to mention that new Shovel Knight Dig game coming and also that new puzzle game.

and while not the same thing, I still think it's important to bring up the ****load of crossover Shovel Knight has had with other indie games, with some even being playable appearances like with Rivals of Aether.

So yeah Shovel knight has way more than "just 1 game" going for him at this point.
There's also a board game in the works.
 

SharkLord

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But Shantae has seniority over all of them and has 5 games while those guys only have one. Popularity isn't the only factor in inclusion decision. Not saying Shantae is going to happen, but she has seniority and moveset potential to be chosen over the rest to be the Indie rep despite her games not being as popular.
Please. Enough about the "moveset potential." Everyone has moveset potential, how much of it is purely subjective and has no bearings on Nintendo's decisions. And don't you pull the Sakurai quote on me, either. Sakurai just makes crazy movesets with what Nintendo gives him. He won't pass over a character for being "too boring" or whatever-If anything, he's pass over a character for being too much for him to handle.

Bottom line, stop using "moveset potential" as a plus for likeliness.
 

Will

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I don’t see Shantae discussed much in here despite her topic being one of the top topics
I mean she could happen, but I'm not exactly on the edge of my seat for her to get in the game.

The thing with a Call of Duty fighter or GTA fighter, despite how large both games are, is that they really don’t have much to stand out or be interesting.
GTA I agree but I heavily disagree with CoD, there is substance to be used across the tens of games and modes. The problem is just the right character to choose, which might just be a Hero situation with some of the biggest names in the series like Price or Mason.

Maybe it's just me, but I definitely think CoD has what it takes. If we're throwing other things like DOOM or [insert popular FPS/BR], you can't just disregard the ****ing haymaker of the genre that isn't crossfire
 
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EricTheGamerman

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I think Western culture's changed a lot since 2013 and I don't see GTA and especially not Smash being the center of a controversy anymore.

I agree that coming up with a moveset would be hard for a game with GTA's mechanics though. But, at the same time, it's GTA. It would be a huge deal and Nintendo knows it, so if they get their hands on the license they won't let moveset issues get in the way.
I would argue that GTA is likely to be as controversial today than it was previously because we've gone from parents who are terrified of its impact on the world to people pointing out that GTA has some genuinely mean spirited and very problematic notions of what it uses to try and make its humor with. GTA is very stuck in the early 2000s culture of gaming it feels like, and that's generally for the worse, and a lot of that stuff is increasingly being rightfully called out as an issue. It's a movement in the controversy that I think has the potential Rockstar tries to make a GTA game. I think a sequel to a game that has sold over 100 million units with as much problematic **** as GTAV had would garner a lot of attention and likely criticism. And the same parents that criticized it in the past are still going to largely be around and new ones will still have issues.

But I just also fundamentally reject the notion that Nintendo is OK with Super Smash Bros Ultimate X Grand Theft Auto. We're not talking about fantasy violence and suggestive material that can be downplayed in Smash, we're talking about a series that is often incredibly grounded in excessive violence, murder, drug trafficking, assassinations, robbery, torture, sexism, racism, etc. GTA has grown so big and wide known that the second its name is said, those very specific connotations come to mind. The game is literally named after an act of robbery that can be a felony charge in the US and often carries pretty significant punishment regardless of the country. No Nintendo is not incredibly prudish as they once were and they've let M-rated games be toned for inclusion in Smash, but GTA is a WHOLE DIFFERENT LEVEL compared to anything that has been close to Smash. And I think that's fundamentally something that Nintendo would not be comfortable even allowing in any context in their E10+ Smash game.

Like the connotations of GTA are impossible to divorce at this point and you immediately bring those to the table with including it in Smash no matter how much you tone down the content itself. I think all that adult and excessive content also often times being so grounded in real world illegal activities just also pushes way past any limits. Like I don't think that M games are traditionally a huge hang-up for Sakurai and Nintendo, but I definitely see GTA as that one definitive never ever franchise inclusion (Mortal Kombat and Doom I kind of lean against for similar issues, but I won't rule them out like I will with GTA).
 

TangyKeys

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How's it going everyone. Back in the old Smash 4 days, I had 3 dream characters I wanted to see in Smash. Those 3 characters were Banjo & Kazooie, Steve, and Rayman. I was 11 at the time, and these 3 were the only characters I really knew that weren't already in the game. My knowledge on games wasn't much then, but it has greatly increased since then, due in large part to Smash. Anyways, I hope that with Ultimate, I get to see my dream fully realized, as it's already 2/3 of the way there. So, really the only character I want going forward is Rayman. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
Welcome to SmashBoards! Glad you got the characters both you and me wanted, now let's hope for Rayman!
 
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