Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

Direct Reactions

  • Kind of want to try that steak he's eating...

    Votes: 58 21.5%
  • Edge "Blocking" potential!

    Votes: 101 37.4%
  • Mine Cart Carnage

    Votes: 54 20.0%
  • Kirby²

    Votes: 129 47.8%
  • IHOB: International House of Boom

    Votes: 51 18.9%
  • Still looking forward to No More Heroes 3!

    Votes: 53 19.6%
  • RIP Player 2 Amiibo

    Votes: 63 23.3%
  • 8 Player Bomberman matches!

    Votes: 86 31.9%
  • More Assist Trophy costumes please!

    Votes: 85 31.5%

  • Total voters
    270

SKX31

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Power rails replace normal rails if you have gold and red stone until they run out. There is no special input, it's the same ol' side b.
Just checked again in training mode, and outside of the start of the move (which automatically places a powered rail) it seems like one has to actively place the subsuquent powered rails if one wants to use them. If one does nothing the subsuquent rails act as normal.

Which gives him some needed mix-up potential IMHO, choosing when or if to place the subsuquent powered rails.

Oh yeah, uncharged Rollout. I think they made it better in the newer games, although still not good, but in the older games, it was just a cute animation.

I think one of the biggest aspects of design creep within the series is the amount of useless, or incredibly situational Special Moves. From 64, you've got :ultmario:(at least casually), :ultdk:, :ultyoshi:, :ultkirby:, :ultfalcon:(though I wouldn't trade Falcon Punch for the world), & :ultjigglypuff:, Melee has :ultzelda:, :ultganondorf:, &:ultmewtwo:, Brawl has :ultmetaknight:&:ultkingdedede:, and only because they nerfed Mach Tornado into the ground, the fourth game has :ultlittlemac:, but only without the K.O. Punch & :ultrobin:, and this game pretty much just has :ultridley:. And this is all after the moves have been balanced and rebalanced.

With Special Moves being a lot of the newer characters's best moves, it's really weird seeing the characters with Special Moves that do basically nothing for you or are just way too slow or difficult to realistically hit someone with.


You need gold too? Huh. The presentation gave me the impression that he could use it fairly often. I guess that isn't the case.
Remind me again, what was :ultmario: 's useless move in... ooooh you mean FLUDD back in Brawl?

Still, that's a valid overall point. I get the impression that many of the early Special Moves suffered because they were incredibly niche instead or incredibly limited. Yoshi's Egg Lay and Egg Roll are eggcellent (I regret nothing!) examples of that since the former has never really offered much reward for the risk (worst case scenario it can be directly punished by the egg-ed opponent), and the latter is limited by Yoshi's inability to jump and it being too straightforward (same with Rollout).

Contrast Egg Lay with :ultwario: 's Bite: Both work kinda similarily, but Bite heals Wario, he can swallow items (Yoshi can't with Egg Lay) and Bite also has much stronger knockback, which prevents the opponent from readily turning the tables. Bite's simply more versatile.
And contrast Egg Roll with :ultinkling: 's Roller - sure, the Roller's straightforward, but it's also an offstage mixup and buries the opponent on hit. Not only is the Roller a bit more versatile, but also more rewarding on hit. Using Egg Roll offstage will likely lead to a self-destruct.
I'd argue that :ultbowserjr: 's cannonballs can also count in that list (at least back in 4),

And yes, powered rails require gold. Must've been another post-presentation change, and not just to limit the rails (but also to give the gold more use).
 
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RetrogamerMax

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So who else really needs buffs? I keep hearing people mention how Ganondorf really needs them, but he's seem alright to me. It would be nice if he got some though.
 

EricTheGamerman

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Sure, there's a difference between having games on their consoles and having them on Smash, but I still don't see where this whole "oh, Nintendo wouldn't want to showcase this" comes from. They've had games from the series on their systems, they've had content from other very adult series in Smash, they've funded games like Bayonetta and Devil's Third. I really don't see why having GTA in Smash, without featuring any objectionable elements, would be such a step beyond for them. Especially since the series hasn't been a lightning rod for controversy for a long time now.
I think it comes from the fact that GTA is quite possibly the most infamous violent video game in history that has caused multiple panics among parents and it's name immediately evokes negative connotations for those types of people, and even for a number of people who are generally OK with stuff in video games find GTA reaching the limits of it. The only reason GTA hasn't had a controversy in years is because there hasn't been a new GTA in years, but GTAV was absolutely a controversial as hell single player experience. The game has you literally participate in a graphic torture scene while also having Trevor be this incredibly violent psychopath (which is the point, but it takes it to the point of excess) and his character is used to turn sexually assaulting another guy who is straight into a punch line multiple times in the game. Yes, that's unfortunately on brand for GTAV, but even if we get past the "think of the children" types, GTA is a really ****ing problematic series on multiple levels that has a reputation. There's no empowerment to any of it and it's commentary on society that sometimes gets attributed to it as a strength is absolutely at its weakest in GTAV where any commentary was immediately undercut by its design philosophy. Let's no whitewash how awful GTA can actually be and it's often mean spirited in its commentary still (and according to workers at Rockstar, the product of an incredibly toxic and unsustainable work environment).

Now Nintendo doesn't probably look at the empowerment angle when including Bayonetta, but Bayonetta is an unknown quantity relative to many people and her connotations are more easily navigated for inclusion in a fighting game. The second Smash Bros. X GTA comes up, you've unleashed pandora's box on to Smash and the ESRB isn't going to be kind considering they won't even seemingly allow the names of M rated games to begin with that aren't problematic in the same way the literal words Grand Theft Auto are. GTA's tendency to embrace everything controversial means there's no way around everything. Like, even if you somehow decide that GTA's controversy is not a road block, what do you do about character design? They have to use real life weapons for everything and the character will be literally grounded in real life violence for attacks if you're going to properly represent GTA at all.

GTA being a bridge too far for playable content doesn't surprise me in the least bit, there's just no real way around it being so infamous. Also, the Devil's Third content did get cut, so that's not really a point in favor of GTA in Smash to begin with.
 

MooMew64

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I just want to know what Nomura threat- I mean comment, about seeing nintendo in the near future means
A Kingdom Hearts Tsum Tsum emoji game, of course!

By saving the Dream Eater Tsum Tsum emojis that live inside the digital world in the Gummi Phones from the DaRkNeSs, Raiku and Kary can finally save Sora from the realm of Final Fantasy Versus XIII. :yeahboi:
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I want to know, what is it about Xenoblade Chronicles in particular that gets people worked up on this forum?

It's not the most explicit JRPG and it's not the biggest one either so why do passions flare up?
I think it's because all three of them are good games that have a lot of good things about them, but Xenoblade Chronicles X and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 aren't as good as Xenoblade Chronicles to the point where people can like Xenoblade Chronicles, but hate the other two games.
  • Xenoblade Chronicles is an amazing RPG with great characters and an amazing story. It also features huge open landscapes for you to explore. It's great.
  • Xenoblade Chronicles X goes bigger with its world, with exploration as the focus. In retrospect, I do think it suffers a bit from making big empty maps, but there are quests that ask you to go places, so exploration doesn't feel completely fruitless, especially when the landscapes can be so gorgeous.
    • The problem lies with the lack of emphasis on story. If that's what you liked about Xenoblade Chronicles, you're going to be disappointed, especially if you don't do any of the side missions, which seem to be the best stories the game has to offer. I only did H.B.'s mission, but it was good enough for me to go from hating him, to him being my favorite character in the game, so if they're all that good, then they're really good.
    • Another issue I see is that they go super ham on the high level enemies. Pretty much everything in an area can kill you, even if you're at the intended level, so exploration, and sometimes, getting to the required area, is like playing a stealth game.
    • The game also doesn't explain its mechanics very well.
  • Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is a return to form, but while it tells its story pretty well, it has a lot of things holding it back.
    • The game uses a lot of the more common anime tropes, even ones that tend to get anime made fun of, so people could find the story predictable, or scenes uncomfortable.
    • Torra is a good character they tried to force into a comedic role, causing tonal issues (there is a scene where Rex is pouring his heart out to Nia, and Torra uncharacteristically fails to read the room and starts dancing in front of him). They also gave him a maid fetish, which not only undermines his motivations for being a driver, but it also makes him a disgusting creep in more than one scene.
    • From Rex's stupid thigh cutouts, to Pyra's design leading your eyes to her bust from the front, and her but from the back, to literally everything about Dhalia's design making you uncomfortable, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has a lot of crappy visual designs, and a lot of the characters are oversexualized. Not all of the designs are bad, and there are a fair share of good ones, but the bad ones are usually just...hoo boy.
    • The game is worse at explaining itself than Xenoblade Chronicles X. It even gives you incorrect information.
Don't get me wrong, Xenoblade Chronicles isn't a perfect game, and its sequels aren't bad by any means, they're just very different games, and it's easy to see why someone would hate them.
 

7NATOR

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Steve's five year negotiations might be because of the resources Sakurai didn't have at the time: Developing Steve for as long as he needed for 4 would bleed into Ultimate's development and probably take longer/be canceled due to the 3DS. For Ultimate's base game, Sakurai didn't want to cut into their already small newcomer budget. For FP1, Nintendo made a deal for Banjo to keep MS on board, under the assumption that they'd be an easier character to make. They were right. It was only until FP2 that Sakurai got what Steve needed: Enough time for one division of the Smash team to work for almost a year on one character.

On a side note, it might not be a coincidence that Nintendo started Steve negotiations during Smash 4's DLC, and Steve fits with :4ryu::4cloud: more than he fits with :ultjoker::ult_terry:/a pass that started with Min Min.
Actually on that note, I Remember there being talk that Cloud was actually Negotiated for BOTH Smash 4 and Smash Ultimate at the same time


I think the idea of Ultimate probably came about Earlier than 2015, Which is around Ryu and Cloud would have had to be negotatied (Around late 2014). Also Considering all of the ballot seemed to be used for Ultimate only (if Mii Costumes in 4 Don't count), Because Bayonetta couldn't have been selected from the Ballot due to the Development Timeline and when the Ballot began.

The writing was probably on the Wall for Wii U and the Switch probably was being conceived, so a New Smash game was in the Cards even before Smash 4 DLC was finished.

I guess if this is the Case, I think the Idea that Steve might be the main Big Character of the Pass which was the Same with Hero in FP1 could be what it is. I Don't know though
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Remind me again, what was :ultmario: 's useless move in... ooooh you mean FLUDD back in Brawl?
While I have actually seen Mario players use F.L.U.D.D. in this game, it still seems kind of unwieldy to me. I'm not sure why either because I think Water Gun is just fine. Perhaps it's the charge time?

Still, that's a valid overall point. I get the impression that many of the early Special Moves suffered because they were incredibly niche instead or incredibly limited. Yoshi's Egg Lay and Egg Roll are eggcellent (I regret nothing!) examples of that since the former has never really offered much reward for the risk (worst case scenario it can be directly punished by the egg-ed opponent), and the latter is limited by Yoshi's inability to jump and it being too straightforward (same with Rollout).

Contrast Egg Lay with :ultwario: 's Bite: Both work kinda similarily, but Bite heals Wario, he can swallow items (Yoshi can't with Egg Lay) and Bite also has much stronger knockback, which prevents the opponent from readily turning the tables. Bite's simply more versatile.
And contrast Egg Roll with :ultinkling: 's Roller - sure, the Roller's straightforward, but it's also an offstage mixup and buries the opponent on hit. Not only is the Roller a bit more versatile, but also more rewarding on hit. Using Egg Roll offstage will likely lead to a self-destruct.
I think it would be cool if Egg Lay was a sort of Cargo Throw. Instead of a dubiously useful egg status for you to beat on, Yoshi would pick up the resulting egg, and aim it just like in the Yoshi series. The player could move back and forth, jump, and chuck it with the press of an attack button.

Since that's a feature that could be added to his normal grab though, they should probably just do that and give him something else entirely. The animation on those two attacks were too similar anyway.
 

Wigglerman

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So who else really needs buffs? I keep hearing people mention how Ganondorf really needs them, but he's seem alright to me. It would be nice if he got some though.
Bowser Jr only in so much that his cannon gets adjusted to charge/fire a bit faster. Thing takes ages to charge up. Surprised that the move was one of the things they DIDN'T tweak this patch despite several quality of life adjustments in the little koopa's favor.

Incin speed/air speed buff >,> (Clears throat)

Only other huge buff would be just fix Mac but that won't happen. Not till next game if he returns and MAYBE gets a second look at his overall gameplay philosophy.

Edit: Rework Ganon as well.
 
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Wigglerman

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Any of you guys Want the Next Smash game to have a Battle Royale Mode?
Not sure how that would even work. And I wouldn't want anything like that unless they REALLY make their online good otherwise it will be total Hell if we have 50+ people in queue waiting their turn to hop in to replace a KO'd player.
 

7NATOR

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Not sure how that would even work. And I wouldn't want anything like that unless they REALLY make their online good otherwise it will be total Hell if we have 50+ people in queue waiting their turn to hop in to replace a KO'd player.
Well Pretty Much, It would be one big Area, kind of like how Smash Run on 3DS was, but Much Bigger. and then People would Collect Items, Upgrades to Their stats, or stuff like that. there could also be the Option for Enemies or Bosses in the Area

The Blastzones will also Shrink after Minute Intervals are up. Your job is to survive and KO Your Enemies, and be the last one standing.

Yeah it would take alot of Power though to Run. Fortnite can Run on Switch and that game has 99 Players, Though that game also Runs as 30 FPS on Regular Switch. I guess a Mode like this would be a Switch Pro Exclusive or something

And the Online would have to be up to Snuff. Hopefully by then the netcode can be massively improved and such
 

Wigglerman

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Well Pretty Much, It would be one big Area, kind of like how Smash Run on 3DS was, but Much Bigger. and then People would Collect Items, Upgrades to Their stats, or stuff like that. there could also be the Option for Enemies or Bosses in the Area

The Blastzones will also Shrink after Minute Intervals are up. Your job is to survive and KO Your Enemies, and be the last one standing.

Yeah it would take alot of Power though to Run. Fortnite can Run on Switch and that game has 99 Players, Though that game also Runs as 30 FPS on Regular Switch. I guess a Mode like this would be a Switch Pro Exclusive or something

And the Online would have to be up to Snuff. Hopefully by then the netcode can be massively improved and such
Not sure what they would need to do to ensure a smooth connection for Smash. Not sure Rollback would be it or not. Or if they'd need to figure out something specific to just that mode. Though I've been missing Smash Run for so long. I can't believe that wasn't on the Wii U version. Such a fun mode to be designated only to the 3DS version T_T
 

7NATOR

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Not sure what they would need to do to ensure a smooth connection for Smash. Not sure Rollback would be it or not. Or if they'd need to figure out something specific to just that mode. Though I've been missing Smash Run for so long. I can't believe that wasn't on the Wii U version. Such a fun mode to be designated only to the 3DS version T_T
And this a Big Reason Why Smash 3DS not only has better Single Player than Smash Wii U, But even Better Single Player than Smash Ultimate, That Mode was Amazing and maybe if the Mode was Wii U Based, It would have been easier to perhaps use it's assets to get the mode into Ultimate

honestly, if they made Smash Run a DLC Mode, I would buy it, but since they want to focus on Characters and Stages and Balacing, I don't think we get that, which is a Shame. Ultimate's Single Player is kind of lacking
 

Rie Sonomura

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I think it's because all three of them are good games that have a lot of good things about them, but Xenoblade Chronicles X and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 aren't as good as Xenoblade Chronicles to the point where people can like Xenoblade Chronicles, but hate the other two games.
  • Xenoblade Chronicles is an amazing RPG with great characters and an amazing story. It also features huge open landscapes for you to explore. It's great.
  • Xenoblade Chronicles X goes bigger with its world, with exploration as the focus. In retrospect, I do think it suffers a bit from making big empty maps, but there are quests that ask you to go places, so exploration doesn't feel completely fruitless, especially when the landscapes can be so gorgeous.
    • The problem lies with the lack of emphasis on story. If that's what you liked about Xenoblade Chronicles, you're going to be disappointed, especially if you don't do any of the side missions, which seem to be the best stories the game has to offer. I only did H.B.'s mission, but it was good enough for me to go from hating him, to him being my favorite character in the game, so if they're all that good, then they're really good.
    • Another issue I see is that they go super ham on the high level enemies. Pretty much everything in an area can kill you, even if you're at the intended level, so exploration, and sometimes, getting to the required area, is like playing a stealth game.
    • The game also doesn't explain its mechanics very well.
  • Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is a return to form, but while it tells its story pretty well, it has a lot of things holding it back.
    • The game uses a lot of the more common anime tropes, even ones that tend to get anime made fun of, so people could find the story predictable, or scenes uncomfortable.
    • Torra is a good character they tried to force into a comedic role, causing tonal issues (there is a scene where Rex is pouring his heart out to Nia, and Torra uncharacteristically fails to read the room and starts dancing in front of him). They also gave him a maid fetish, which not only undermines his motivations for being a driver, but it also makes him a disgusting creep in more than one scene.
    • From Rex's stupid thigh cutouts, to Pyra's design leading your eyes to her bust from the front, and her but from the back, to literally everything about Dhalia's design making you uncomfortable, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has a lot of crappy visual designs, and a lot of the characters are oversexualized. Not all of the designs are bad, and there are a fair share of good ones, but the bad ones are usually just...hoo boy.
    • The game is worse at explaining itself than Xenoblade Chronicles X. It even gives you incorrect information.
Don't get me wrong, Xenoblade Chronicles isn't a perfect game, and its sequels aren't bad by any means, they're just very different games, and it's easy to see why someone would hate them.
I don't recall the bolded part, but I do agree with most of the X points. The side missions are where it shines. My favorite is Yelv's, which I won't go into cause spoilers, but I'd love to see what happened there touched up on in the sequel

and yeah, nothing like taking a stroll around primordia, making sure Hayreddin, The Territorial isn't nearby when you suddenly hear Uncontrollable and it's that damn giant dinosaur who's 20 levels above Hayreddin

and slight tangent but i remember the mission where you kill a Suid but can choose to kill or spare its offspring, let's just say Undertale HECKING LIED TO ME
 

SKX31

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So who else really needs buffs? I keep hearing people mention how Ganondorf really needs them, but he's seem alright to me. It would be nice if he got some though.
Ganondorf's often cited as a perfect example of "Good in more casual settings, but horribly exploited by people who really know his weaknesses". The latter's precisely why a lot of more competitive people have argued for him to get buffs / a rework: Sure, a Ganondorf who knows what he's doing is a terrifying opponent who can erase lives in the blink of an eye* (and I believe that's why Sakurai's kept him that way), but he's also practically a sitting duck when he's in a bad spot (Ganondorf's infamous for being combo food, for example). The fact that he's been saddled with many over-the-top but slow moves (Warlock Punch, Volcano Kick) doesn't help because he loses versatility for the best attacks in the game BIG moves.

Another issue many more casual fans have with Ganondorf's moveset is that it's still showing the scars of his first appearance as a Falcon clone and is thusly not the King of Evil. A sentiment some more competitive people like MockRock have also expressed. One argument from this camp is "Why keep Warlock Punch when Ganondorf's had so many iconic attacks to him?" That's another group that primarily want to see a rework - especially those that want to include the original Ganon incarnation.

Absent a complete rework (honestly I'd like to see at least some of Ganondorf's moves changed at this point): what I think would help him is if he got his float (like in Project M). It should be somewhat technical / limited so it's not used willy-nilly, but the float would help his recovery some. Or: letting his Wizard's Foot go through some more projectiles, since would help his approach a bit (even if Wizard's Foot is fast, it's commital too).

And as for others that could use buffs / reworks... I'll give three examples:

:ultlittlemac: : Noble experiment, but "You ain't an Air Fighter!" has been so pidgeonholed that his recovery's been meme'd to death and it feels sad. It doesn't help that like Ganondorf Mac's a case of "Good in more casual settings, but horribly exploited by people who really know his weaknesses". There are still pro Mac players, but at this point, it might be worth it to refocus Mac around something other than just ground-based power (he could still be mostly ground-based).

:ultisabelle: : Another noble experiment here. She's got a couple interesting traits, but I kinda think her moveset's a bit unfocused and she suffers from that. Lloid Trap is interesting, and so is the Fishing Rod, but she doesn't have that much that complements them. Villager's seen as stronger partly because the moves complement each other better (Down Smash -> F Smash for example)... but Villager also struggles in Ultimate's metagame. Buffing her Fishing Rod's speed and giving her infamously short Smashes a bit more range could help that.

:ultswordfighter: : Gale Strike (the Tornado) and the Chakram are just a little too good IMHO, leading the Swordfighter to become Sword-Zoner in certain cases. Especially if the Swordfighter has the Reflector with him. On the other hand, there's not that much incentive for the Swordfighter to actually go into CQC range, with the Swordfighter being relatively shortranged and lacking speed. EDIT: This is where I argue Swordfighter diverges from the three Links - the Link have generally good enough tools and reasons to go CQC too. As such I'd buff the Swordfighter's speed a little and a slight buff to the tilts to compensate for the slight speed nerfs I'd dish out to Tornado and Chakram.

(There are lots of other characters I'd rework, like Sonic. But I've complained a lot about him already.)

*And yes, competitive people can and has lost games and sets to competitive Ganons and Macs. Case in point:



Not sure what they would need to do to ensure a smooth connection for Smash. Not sure Rollback would be it or not. Or if they'd need to figure out something specific to just that mode. Though I've been missing Smash Run for so long. I can't believe that wasn't on the Wii U version. Such a fun mode to be designated only to the 3DS version T_T
I could see that mode work, but it shouldn't be the sole mode in the game. So:

Step 1: Actually include an Ethernet port with the next Nintendo console. Like WTF.
Step 2: If not Rollback, at least upgrade the online infrastructure Nintendo. Especially now when we're paying $20 a year for it. They've been neglecting it for a bit too long.
Step 3: Include a slight damage modifier in the Smash Fortnite Run mode, so people don't risk taking 80 % instantly from like 5 people ganking one person.

It'd be really difficult to design, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it's impossible.
 
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Jocario Zero

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I think it's because all three of them are good games that have a lot of good things about them, but Xenoblade Chronicles X and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 aren't as good as Xenoblade Chronicles to the point where people can like Xenoblade Chronicles, but hate the other two games.
  • Xenoblade Chronicles is an amazing RPG with great characters and an amazing story. It also features huge open landscapes for you to explore. It's great.
  • Xenoblade Chronicles X goes bigger with its world, with exploration as the focus. In retrospect, I do think it suffers a bit from making big empty maps, but there are quests that ask you to go places, so exploration doesn't feel completely fruitless, especially when the landscapes can be so gorgeous.
    • The problem lies with the lack of emphasis on story. If that's what you liked about Xenoblade Chronicles, you're going to be disappointed, especially if you don't do any of the side missions, which seem to be the best stories the game has to offer. I only did H.B.'s mission, but it was good enough for me to go from hating him, to him being my favorite character in the game, so if they're all that good, then they're really good.
    • Another issue I see is that they go super ham on the high level enemies. Pretty much everything in an area can kill you, even if you're at the intended level, so exploration, and sometimes, getting to the required area, is like playing a stealth game.
    • The game also doesn't explain its mechanics very well.
  • Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is a return to form, but while it tells its story pretty well, it has a lot of things holding it back.
    • The game uses a lot of the more common anime tropes, even ones that tend to get anime made fun of, so people could find the story predictable, or scenes uncomfortable.
    • Torra is a good character they tried to force into a comedic role, causing tonal issues (there is a scene where Rex is pouring his heart out to Nia, and Torra uncharacteristically fails to read the room and starts dancing in front of him). They also gave him a maid fetish, which not only undermines his motivations for being a driver, but it also makes him a disgusting creep in more than one scene.
    • From Rex's stupid thigh cutouts, to Pyra's design leading your eyes to her bust from the front, and her but from the back, to literally everything about Dhalia's design making you uncomfortable, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has a lot of crappy visual designs, and a lot of the characters are oversexualized. Not all of the designs are bad, and there are a fair share of good ones, but the bad ones are usually just...hoo boy.
    • The game is worse at explaining itself than Xenoblade Chronicles X. It even gives you incorrect information.
Don't get me wrong, Xenoblade Chronicles isn't a perfect game, and its sequels aren't bad by any means, they're just very different games, and it's easy to see why someone would hate them.
I agree with the most but i feel that some people really are overreacting in their hate to some of Xenoblade 2s character design (and Xenoblade 2 in general). The only one that really bothered me personally was Dhalia and that was only when i could see her more closely in one of her missions. But in the end something like this is just personal taste and others are free to dislike it (but at least they could bring up actual criticism without using cursing words the entire time).

None of the Xenoblade games are perfect, but i love them all nonetheless.
 

DuskFleur

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On the subject of Smash character speculation in general, I really hate it when people act so petty about how "lol your pick is never gonna be in Smash", and how people harass each other for that reason. You all remember before Banjo & Kazooie were confirmed, when people were yelling about how Steve was going to be THE Microsoft representative, and how the bear and bird were going to rot away, forever forgotten? And then when the dynamic duo were announced during last year's E3, the tables turned and Steve fans were to ones getting harassed about how he'd never get into Smash since Microsoft already had a rep now? And now we're getting stuff like "**** SORA" and other character bashings? All this sh*t flinging is so exhausting to witness. Can't we all just get along?
 

latsmash

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Ganondorf has some really good moves such as Up-Air or N-Air, but he's fundamentally awful in a game dominated by small, quick and defensive characters. Even then, I feel like there are other characters that need to be focused on before him.
 

clearandsweet

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
248
I think it's because all three of them are good games that have a lot of good things about them, but Xenoblade Chronicles X and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 aren't as good as Xenoblade Chronicles to the point where people can like Xenoblade Chronicles, but hate the other two games.
  • Xenoblade Chronicles is an amazing RPG with great characters and an amazing story. It also features huge open landscapes for you to explore. It's great.
  • Xenoblade Chronicles X goes bigger with its world, with exploration as the focus. In retrospect, I do think it suffers a bit from making big empty maps, but there are quests that ask you to go places, so exploration doesn't feel completely fruitless, especially when the landscapes can be so gorgeous.
    • The problem lies with the lack of emphasis on story. If that's what you liked about Xenoblade Chronicles, you're going to be disappointed, especially if you don't do any of the side missions, which seem to be the best stories the game has to offer. I only did H.B.'s mission, but it was good enough for me to go from hating him, to him being my favorite character in the game, so if they're all that good, then they're really good.
    • Another issue I see is that they go super ham on the high level enemies. Pretty much everything in an area can kill you, even if you're at the intended level, so exploration, and sometimes, getting to the required area, is like playing a stealth game.
    • The game also doesn't explain its mechanics very well.
  • Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is a return to form, but while it tells its story pretty well, it has a lot of things holding it back.
    • The game uses a lot of the more common anime tropes, even ones that tend to get anime made fun of, so people could find the story predictable, or scenes uncomfortable.
    • Torra is a good character they tried to force into a comedic role, causing tonal issues (there is a scene where Rex is pouring his heart out to Nia, and Torra uncharacteristically fails to read the room and starts dancing in front of him). They also gave him a maid fetish, which not only undermines his motivations for being a driver, but it also makes him a disgusting creep in more than one scene.
    • From Rex's stupid thigh cutouts, to Pyra's design leading your eyes to her bust from the front, and her but from the back, to literally everything about Dhalia's design making you uncomfortable, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has a lot of crappy visual designs, and a lot of the characters are oversexualized. Not all of the designs are bad, and there are a fair share of good ones, but the bad ones are usually just...hoo boy.
    • The game is worse at explaining itself than Xenoblade Chronicles X. It even gives you incorrect information.
Don't get me wrong, Xenoblade Chronicles isn't a perfect game, and its sequels aren't bad by any means, they're just very different games, and it's easy to see why someone would hate them.
Counterpoint: Finch is dope



But ya Xenoblade (well, X and 2 at least) always felt like an offshoot of JRPGs. I enjoyed my time with those games, but looking back on them I think, "eh, it kinda was pretty vapid/dumb at the end of the day. And man those character designs for Rex and Pyra are bad." That's kinda the opposite of what you want to have happen with an JRPG.
 

Perkilator

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cashregister9

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Smashing Ramen

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Hydreigonfan01

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SMAASH! Puppy

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I agree with the most but i feel that some people really are overreacting in their hate to some of Xenoblade 2s character design (and Xenoblade 2 in general). The only one that really bothered me personally was Dhalia and that was only when i could see her more closely in one of her missions. But in the end something like this is just personal taste and others are free to dislike it (but at least they could bring up actual criticism without using cursing words the entire time).
Thinking about all of the Blades I've seen thus far, I think there are a lot of good designs there. It's probably that the problem is that most of the bad ones are on major characters:
  • Rex's metal chaps are really odd. I think the entire diver look would have come together much better if the leather portions were always there. What really baffles me is that even his spoilery look keeps the thigh holes, and it sours both designs imo.
  • Pyra's design is nothing but distracting, and doesn't fit her character given how modest/down to earth her character is. I do like that shade of red though. Overall I don't hate it, but I think it needed another draft. They said they wanted her design to communicate that she's fractured or something, so maybe a cool stained glass look or something would have been better than just...remove clothing.
  • Brighid's design is almost perfect, but it annoys me to no end that her pelvis is covered only by sheer material. If she wasn't so exposed down there, I'd probably give her design a 10/10.

Counterpoint: Finch is dope
Can't say I'm a fan, but she's not bad. Well...visually, and personality wise at least.

I may end up using her at some point, but I'm gonna wait until I can have 3 Blades per Driver. Between Nim, Floren, and Poppi, I kinda have too many Earth Blades on my team, but giving Rex a Shield Hammer is probably not the best solution, especially when Nim has been a really good blade for Rex. I suppose it could have been worse though: I could have gotten Electra and Finch on Nia instead.
 
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Hydreigonfan01

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
893
Personally I've never had an issue with the Blade designs in Xenoblade 2, but that might be because I do watch a lot of anime that have just as sexy female characters like Kill la Kill, Cross Ange and Panty and Stocking as well as playing the Bayonetta franchise, so I don't think about it too much. It's only when the writers give stupid reasons for why certain characters wear little clothing that frustrates me, like with Quiet breathing through her skin.
 

Guynamednelson

Smash Hero
Premium
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Nelson340
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Any of you guys Want the Next Smash game to have a Battle Royale Mode?
Will there still be a trend involving cramming battle royale modes into everything for Smash to follow in 2025 when Smash 6 starts development?
 

Autumn Breeze

Cats > Dogs
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Personally, I love Rex's salvager outfit. Idk why I just think it's a nice look. For Pythra I just slap on the Disguised Pyra & Smash Bros Mythra outfits and call it a day. Then I just ignore the crappy Blade designs like Dahlia & Kora and pretend they don't exist.
 
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