Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

I can't really see another Western character besides Crash making it tbh. There aren't many other Western characters that I could see Nintendo going for instead of just picking an Eastern character.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I can't really see another Western character besides Crash making it tbh. There aren't many other Western characters that I could see Nintendo going for instead of just picking an Eastern character.

I would argue Dovahkiin and Master Chief.

 

[Louie G.]

I would argue Dovahkiin and Master Chief.

I (unfortunately) can't see Chief happening after Steve, but I do think Dovahkiin has better odds than I've seen people give him credit for.

To my knowledge, Skyrim was very successful worldwide and it's a game that has been on Nintendo's radar for a while now too - I recall them being very excited to have it on Switch. It's certainly possible the conversation would come up... although personally I also think the Vault Boy costume makes a Bethesda character less than likely, when he could have shown up alongside the character instead.

 

[7NATOR]

If Crash got in with a Focus on Mask Abilities, would he be taking Skull Kid's Function?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

In that case Retro Rep is officially dead

Judging by Sakurai's comments on Piranha Plant, it's possible that the "retro reps" were more unexpected characters than retro ones specifically.


Thinking more on things though, I think I'll retract my previous statement about 12 year old things not being retro under it's current definition, but I do think that it either needs a new one, or we need a new definition for older retro stuff, as placing things that are 1-2 decades old in the same category as 4-5 decade old things seems kinda disingenuous, or at least less meaningful.

 

[RetroBro]

Western characters - in spite of Steve's inclusion are all still incredibly unlikely.

Minecraft is a world wide phenomenon of the past and present. And will likely continue be that. Steve being added doesn't increase the chances of a Valve character/Rockstar/Midway. I don't think Morgan Freeman/GTA/MK will ever be repped in Smash for various reasons.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I (unfortunately) can't see Chief happening after Steve, but I do think Dovahkiin has better odds than I've seen people give him credit for.

I dunno, I'm taking a big risk in my current prediction that given Nintendo's and Microsoft's relationship, they've agreed upon a 3-way deal and I could see Master Chief as this internet-breaking surprise for E3 next year.

 

[SharkLord]

It's only 3 years less than Ice Climber was when it was introduced to Smash

To be fair, there was less of a gap between Smash and the NES back then.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

As I always say, I think characters all come down to the individual circumstances.

Clearly certain western characters have different circumstances around them that make them possible vs. unlikely. For example, while it doesn’t outright discard Master Chief as an option, we’ve never gotten two characters from the same company in the same pass. That’s probably largely to spread the wealth of where the characters come from.

Likewise, with Fallout getting a costume, you would think that in terms of Volume 2, that would wait until a Bethesda character were added. Again, not an outright disconfirmation, but it brings that into question.

Crash has nothing in the game currently, is in a resurgence, and at one point was lined up with Mario and Sonic. He’s got popularity. I can see it happening but I don’t know exactly how likely he is. Guess we’ll have to wait and see.

 

[Calamitas]

In that case Retro Rep is officially dead

What do you mean? is already in the game.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I actually think the Doom Slayer thing is still a bit fishy. Maybe it’s just a hunch but something about the “we’ve bantered with Nintendo about it, I don’t even know who talked to who, but it hasn’t gone anywhere” makes me suspicious. Is it out of the realm of possibility to get the deal sealed before they begin development on the character or content? If they really have bantered back and forth over Doom Slayer then I feel like we probably would get at least something from it. Like, Mii Costumes or Spirits would be on the table I think at least, especially if Eternal is still coming eventually.

I dunno, maybe it’s just because now Hayabusa has come back into the spotlight and Slayer was always right there beside him but something in my bones tells me that something Doom is coming.

 

[RileyXY1]

I actually think the Doom Slayer thing is still a bit fishy. Maybe it’s just a hunch but something about the “we’ve bantered with Nintendo about it, I don’t even know who talked to who, but it hasn’t gone anywhere” makes me suspicious. Is it out of the realm of possibility to get the deal sealed before they begin development on the character or content? If they really have bantered back and forth over Doom Slayer then I feel like we probably would get at least something from it. Like, Mii Costumes or Spirits would be on the table I think at least, especially if Eternal is still coming eventually.

I dunno, maybe it’s just because now Hayabusa has come back into the spotlight and Slayer was always right there beside him but something in my bones tells me that something Doom is coming.

I expect it to be a Mii Fighter costume.

 

[Idon]

I expect it to be a Mii Fighter costume.

It'd be quite humorous if they couldn't say "Super Smash Bros x Doom" but they were allowed to say "Super Smash Bros x Doom Guy."

 

[SKX31]

Yeah don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's impossible. Your guess is as good as mine. I just think it's important to keep in mind how the values and priorities of a Japanese company may (and probably will) differ a lot from what we, the western Smash community, may perceive as important, popular or likely.

Yeah, that's what makes it so tricky (but fun in a way). We honestly don't know if Nintendo will stick to the tried-and-true mostly, or agree to FP2 characters in order to prioritize expansion (not just by appealing to "Other" regions, but also appealing to different crowds and not just the Nintendo stalwarts). Or choose a mix between those two approaches.

It'd be quite humorous if they couldn't say "Super Smash Bros x Doom" but they were allowed to say "Super Smash Bros x Doom Guy."

Especially if Doom Guy is actually in FP2 as both a character and a Mii Costume and NoA couldn't use the Doom logo for either.

 

[Aerospherology]

I expect it to be a Mii Fighter costume.

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate x Cacodemon

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think that Ryu Hayabusa and Doom Slayer are linked at all. One can come without the other.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I don't think that Ryu Hayabusa and Doom Slayer are linked at all. One can come without the other.

I mean, I didn’t say that. I was just saying maybe that’s why Doom Slayer has popped back into my head. Because Ryu Hayabusa and Doom Slayer were both heavily speculated together for quite some time.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I don't think Morgan Freeman will ever be repped in Smash for various reasons.

Yeah, I don't think the American voice actor for God will get in either.

 

[RileyXY1]

I mean, I didn’t say that. I was just saying maybe that’s why Doom Slayer has popped back into my head. Because Ryu Hayabusa and Doom Slayer were both heavily speculated together for quite some time.

Mostly due to circumstantial leaks. Now there's new evidence for Hayabusa and nothing for Doomguy.

 

[latsmash]

I still have yet to see a concrete reason as to why Hayabusa has to be a fighter specifically. Ninja Gaiden is not an active franchise, I wouldn't go as far as to say dead as Ryu still makes appearances in games from time to time, but when series like Fallout and Resident Evil get relegated to minor appearances what's to say he won't be a mii costume?

 

[Louie G.]

I still have yet to see a concrete reason as to why Hayabusa has to be a fighter specifically. Ninja Gaiden is not an active franchise, I wouldn't go as far as to say dead as Ryu still makes appearances in games from time to time, but when series like Fallout and Resident Evil get relegated to minor appearances what's to say he won't be a mii costume?

I dunno, couldn't you say the same about any number of characters? Hayabusa is just the most obvious pick from Koei Tecmo's library, and Koei Tecmo is arguably the most glaringly absent third party company from the roster given their continued collaborations with Nintendo on several titles. It makes a lot of sense. Not to say he couldn't be a Mii Costume, but anybody could really. There are only four spots left.

As far as Resident Evil goes, I personally believe Jill or Leon should have been playable but I imagine it ran into its own fair share of potential censorship issues. And let's face it, it's very unlikely that Vault Boy of all characters was ever on the table. Fallout doesn't exactly lend itself to obvious fighter potential, but Ninja Gaiden definitely does.

 

[RGFS]

Western characters - in spite of Steve's inclusion are all still incredibly unlikely.

Minecraft is a world wide phenomenon of the past and present. And will likely continue be that. Steve being added doesn't increase the chances of a Valve character/Rockstar/Midway. I don't think Morgan Freeman/GTA/MK will ever be repped in Smash for various reasons.

Disregarding how we've gotten plenty of Western Spirits, Normal Trophies, Assist Trophies, Mii Costumes, and now even Fighters, I can't really say I can agree with this aspect of narrowing it down anymore. I will concede that a character who is actively unpopular in Japan has an incredibly poor shot as a fighter most likely.

But GTA is also a world wide phenomenon of the past and present even in doing great in Japan.

GTA V: Grand Theft Auto 5 breaks sales records in Japan

Scrolling through YouTube with グランドセフトオート searched will result in multiple Japanese videos that have gained millions of views

Japan Twitter still posts about it

It has been around for longer than Minecraft and has many unrealistic and lighthearted elements to its cynical world. GTA V may be number 2 to Minecraft but the franchise itself has sold more than Minecraft at around 300 million units only beaten by Mario, Tetris, and Pokemon.

The only thing needed to represent a fighter would be the city, characters, and weaponry that all can and have been toned down for other series in Smash. Drugs, prostitutes, profanity, and blood are obviously not even gonna be referenced because they don't need to and it already worked fine when representing Joker, Snake, and Bayonetta. Corrin from Fire Emblem didn't come with that rubbing people mini game either.

Nintendo could have just not thought about it or Rockstar Games could just not like the idea of being in Smash (maybe) but if they wanted to do it, they could make it work perfectly fine. With characters like Joker, Snake, Bayonetta, Fallout, No More Heroes, Resident Evil, and Assassin's Creed the idea of disregarding series in Smash because of their source materials content is just as fruitless as disregarding a character based on personality or moveset potential. The Smash team can and will make basically any inclusion work, it's more about if they think it's their best option, the time they have, or it was even chosen to begin with.

It really isn't about content or context, it's about if it's a good choice and that can be around plenty of factors. For that reason, I think we are getting a gunner and reloading focused character alongside someone like Crash Bandicoot in this pass. So far, I truly believe they've been going for what are objectively the best possible choices for the roster as a whole, they all have had many things going for them and are debatably the best choice for what they represented when you think about it. Sure the gunner could be someone I'm not thinking about, but I was always betting on Resident Evil filling that spot.

I'm not saying the GTA fighter idea is a lock, it could easily just not happen at all. Characters who are just not popular in Japan totally have a poorer shot as a fighter but GTA is popular in Japan. People are also seriously underestimating the chance of a money making opportunity here by Nintendo and TakeTwo / Rockstar. GTA V could get a Nintendo Switch port with the new versions announced to be releasing in 2021 and at least making a costume makes plenty of sense to me.

Nintendo fans who aren't big on GTA see them in Smash and become tempted to try out the game on the Switch, meanwhile Rockstar and general gaming fans are shocked that both Minecraft and Grand Theft Auto get to fight in a game with Super Mario and word gets around. Bonus points if that's all announced alongside side the logo of GTA 6 and boom, the internet is down for a week.

Sorry if I annoy some by bringing up this series but I truly feel it's a big sleeper pick with many misconceptions. Even if we only get a Mii or spirit event. I bet other non-Japanese characters probably fall in a similar boat.

 

[Idon]

I still have yet to see a concrete reason as to why Hayabusa has to be a fighter specifically. Ninja Gaiden is not an active franchise, I wouldn't go as far as to say dead as Ryu still makes appearances in games from time to time, but when series like Fallout and Resident Evil get relegated to minor appearances what's to say he won't be a mii costume?

Absolutely nothing is stopping him from being Mii'd or Spirit'd, but seeing as KT has a very close relationship with Nintendo and their posterboy is Ryu Hayabusa, he's just a reasonable pick if they ever do decide to collaborate on a Smash character.

As far as his franchise goes, Ninja Gaiden might be in hibernation, but the character itself appears frequently enough such that he's always in the public eye. Hell, remember Fatal Fury is a franchise that hasn't had a real game since 1999 and it's still "Super Smash Bros x Fatal Fury" despite the fact Terry represents much more than that; he's a stand-in for the company itself.

 

[RGFS]

Absolutely nothing is stopping him from being Mii'd or Spirit'd, but seeing as KT has a very close relationship with Nintendo and their posterboy is Ryu Hayabusa, he's just a reasonable pick if they ever do decide to collaborate on a Smash character.

As far as his franchise goes, Ninja Gaiden might be in hibernation, but the character itself appears frequently enough such that it's not like he's always in the public eye. Hell, remember Fatal Fury is a franchise that hasn't had a real game since 1999 and it's still "Super Smash Bros x Fatal Fury" despite the fact Terry represents much more than that, he's a stand-in for the company itself.

I can somewhat agree but to me it looks like Fatal Fury was absorbed into the King of Fighters series and a game came out around 2016.

 

[latsmash]

I highly doubt Nintendo would go through with development on Ryu simply because of good relations with Koei Tecmo. What does Nintendo gain from his inclusion? Tighter bonds with KT? Clearly they don't need that. Ninja Gaiden isn't having any upcoming game releases, Ryu wasn't a highly requested character before DLC development began, I'd go as far as to say Ninja Gaiden isn't nearly as impactful as other franchises yet to get into Smash Bros. If we get a Bamco character this pass, I'll be a bit more convinced that Ryu Hayabusa is appearing as a fighter.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What mechanics would a Grand Theft Auto character bring exactly?

If the answer is that I'd be able to yoink items out of the hands of my enemies, then I'm sold.

 

[Idon]

I can somewhat agree but to me it looks like Fatal Fury was absorbed into the King of Fighters series and a game came out around 2016.

Well I disagree on that logic as Terry's just a character in that and KoF doesn't represent Fatal Fury gameplay. But that's just my personal opinion, luckily we have a direct analogue in the Dead or Alive series where we have Ryu Hayabusa as a mainstay character and a recent release in 2019.

 

[Wigglerman]

:05

I highly doubt Nintendo would go through with development on Ryu simply because of good relations with Koei Tecmo. What does Nintendo gain from his inclusion? Tighter bonds with KT? Clearly they don't need that. Ninja Gaiden isn't having any upcoming game releases, Ryu wasn't a highly requested character before DLC development began, I'd go as far as to say Ninja Gaiden isn't nearly as impactful as other franchises yet to get into Smash Bros. If we get a Bamco character this pass, I'll be a bit more convinced that Ryu Hayabusa is appearing as a fighter.

I would fathom Ryu would have the same impact on Smash as the Belmonts. At least, would for me. Played both the OG Castlevania and Ninja Gaiden to death growing up, still play them to this day. Having both the 'hard boys' in the game would be pretty awesome.

 

[Megadoomer]

I highly doubt Nintendo would go through with development on Ryu simply because of good relations with Koei Tecmo. What does Nintendo gain from his inclusion? Tighter bonds with KT? Clearly they don't need that. Ninja Gaiden isn't having any upcoming game releases, Ryu wasn't a highly requested character before DLC development began, I'd go as far as to say Ninja Gaiden isn't nearly as impactful as other franchises yet to get into Smash Bros. If we get a Bamco character this pass, I'll be a bit more convinced that Ryu Hayabusa is appearing as a fighter.

Similar arguments could be made for the Belmonts (it's not like Konami has any plans to release a new Castlevania game any time soon), and yet they were added anyway. Much like Castlevania, Ninja Gaiden has a long history stretching back to the NES days.

 

[Idon]

I highly doubt Nintendo would go through with development on Ryu simply because of good relations with Koei Tecmo. What does Nintendo gain from his inclusion? Tighter bonds with KT? Clearly they don't need that. Ninja Gaiden isn't having any upcoming game releases, Ryu wasn't a highly requested character before DLC development began, I'd go as far as to say Ninja Gaiden isn't nearly as impactful as other franchises yet to get into Smash Bros. If we get a Bamco character this pass, I'll be a bit more convinced that Ryu Hayabusa is appearing as a fighter.

The thing is those are all reasonings that don't hold up for the others DLC characters. No previous 3rd party character has the combined total of: tighter bonds that could be improved, upcoming releases, high requests, major historic video game impact. In fact, I'd go as far as to say the DLC characters that provide all or even some of that would be the minority.

Ryu Hayabusa is simply an iconic enough character with a lot of history and easy ties to Nintendo such that I could see Nintendo going for him. Arbitrarily raising the bar with "yeah but does he do X, Y, and Z" just makes any character seem unlikely.

edit: typos

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I just want to add something about the Western characters debate. Yes, it is true that Smash is getting more and more Western stuff, but they're all from developpers who are relatively close to Nintendo:

-Shovel knight assist trophy: the game was originally Nintendo consoles + pc only (it was ported to playstation and Xbox later). Also Shovel knight is one of the very few third parties and the only indies who got a amiibo.

-Banjo and Steve: Microsoft started releasing some game on the Switch, which is exceptionnal considering that they're (technically) a competitor. The Switch and the 3ds also got a Minecraft edition, and the switch and Wii u both have Nintendo exclusive content. Banjo is also unique because he started as a Nintendo character.

-Sans costume: Toby Fox worked on Little town Hero and Pokémon Sword/Shield. Sakurai mentionned that Toby came to his home to add Sans, so I think that all of this happen around the same time.

-Vault boy costume: Bethesda his a pretty big supporter of the Switch, being one of the first developpers to port big game on the console. The Skyrim port even have some exclusive content to Nintendo.

-Altair costume/Rabbids costume: Ubisoft worked with Nintendo on Mario + Rabbids and the Starlink star fox content.

My point is that every Western third party developpers was very close to Nintendo. While I don't think Crash is impossible, I don't think that having Ubisoft, Bethesda and Microsoft representation necessarily means that Nintendo will want to work with Activision. This is even more true about developpers like Valve who did nothing to Nintendo, or Rockstar who port one game and that's it.

 

[Sari]

I just want to add something about the Western characters debate. Yes, it is true that Smash is getting more and more Western stuff, but they're all from developpers who are relatively close to Nintendo:

-Shovel knight assist trophy: the game was originally Nintendo consoles + pc only (it was ported to playstation and Xbox later). Also Shovel knight is one of the very few third parties and the only indies who got a amiibo.

-Banjo and Steve: Microsoft started releasing some game on the Switch, which is exceptionnal considering that they're (technically) a competitor. The Switch and the 3ds also got a Minecraft edition, and the switch and Wii u both have Nintendo exclusive content. Banjo is also unique because he started as a Nintendo character.

-Sans costume: Toby Fox worked on Little town Hero and Pokémon Sword/Shield. Sakurai mentionned that Toby came to his home to add Sans, so I think that all of this happen around the same time.

-Vault boy costume: Bethesda his a pretty big supporter of the Switch, being one of the first developpers to port big game on the console. The Skyrim port even have some exclusive content to Nintendo.

-Altair costume/Rabbids costume: Ubisoft worked with Nintendo on Mario + Rabbids and the Starlink star fox content.

My point is that every Western third party developpers was very close to Nintendo. While I don't think Crash is impossible, I don't think that having Ubisoft, Bethesda and Microsoft representation necessarily means that Nintendo will want to work with Activision. This is even more true about developpers like Valve who did nothing to Nintendo, or Rockstar who port one game and that's it.

I mean we got Donkey Kong and Bowser in Activision's Skylanders game in 2015, a time when amiibo and Skylanders were arguably competing with one another in the "toys-to-life" category. I think that should show how willing Nintendo and Activision are willing to collaborate with each other.

 

[RetroBro]

Disregarding how we've gotten plenty of Western Spirits, Normal Trophies, Assist Trophies, Mii Costumes, and now even Fighters, I can't really say I can agree with this aspect of narrowing it down anymore. I will concede that a character who is actively unpopular in Japan has an incredibly poor shot as a fighter most likely.

But GTA is also a world wide phenomenon of the past and present even in doing great in Japan.

GTA V: Grand Theft Auto 5 breaks sales records in Japan

Scrolling through YouTube with グランドセフトオート searched will result in multiple Japanese videos that have gained millions of views

Japan Twitter still posts about it

It has been around for longer than Minecraft and has many unrealistic and lighthearted elements to its cynical world. GTA V may be number 2 to Minecraft but the franchise itself has sold more than Minecraft at around 300 million units only beaten by Mario, Tetris, and Pokemon.

The only thing needed to represent a fighter would be the city, characters, and weaponry that all can and have been toned down for other series in Smash. Drugs, prostitutes, profanity, and blood are obviously not even gonna be referenced because they don't need to and it already worked fine when representing Joker, Snake, and Bayonetta. Corrin from Fire Emblem didn't come with that rubbing people mini game either.

Nintendo could have just not thought about it or Rockstar Games could just not like the idea of being in Smash (maybe) but if they wanted to do it, they could make it work perfectly fine. With characters like Joker, Snake, Bayonetta, Fallout, No More Heroes, Resident Evil, and Assassin's Creed the idea of disregarding series in Smash because of their source materials content is just as fruitless as disregarding a character based on personality or moveset potential. The Smash team can and will make basically any inclusion work, it's more about if they think it's their best option, the time they have, or it was even chosen to begin with.

It really isn't about content or context, it's about if it's a good choice and that can be around plenty of factors. For that reason, I think we are getting a gunner and reloading focused character alongside someone like Crash Bandicoot in this pass. So far, I truly believe they've been going for what are objectively the best possible choices for the roster as a whole, they all have had many things going for them and are debatably the best choice for what they represented when you think about it. Sure the gunner could be someone I'm not thinking about, but I was always betting on Resident Evil filling that spot.

I'm not saying the GTA fighter idea is a lock, it could easily just not happen at all. Characters who are just not popular in Japan totally have a poorer shot as a fighter but GTA is popular in Japan. People are also seriously underestimating the chance of a money making opportunity here by Nintendo and TakeTwo / Rockstar. GTA V could get a Nintendo Switch port with the new versions announced to be releasing in 2021 and at least making a costume makes plenty of sense to me.

Nintendo fans who aren't big on GTA see them in Smash and become tempted to try out the game on the Switch, meanwhile Rockstar and general gaming fans are shocked that both Minecraft and Grand Theft Auto get to fight in a game with Super Mario and word gets around. Bonus points if that's all announced alongside side the logo of GTA 6 and boom, the internet is down for a week.

Sorry if I annoy some by bringing up this series but I truly feel it's a big sleeper pick with many misconceptions. Even if we only get a Mii or spirit event. I bet other non-Japanese characters probably fall in a similar boat.

Sales figures are fine and dandy but the hyper realistic world of GTA just does not align with Nintendo and its ideals. Minecraft accomplished the sales figures you're describing while remaining kid friendly.

Outside of Snake and Bayonetta - which both characters aren't even remotely close to just gunning down giant packs of innocent civilians - there is no character in smash presently that treads the line of violence that GTA walks.

Snake cannot be used as a baseline for entry in smash simply because he cheated the system by having his original creator beg Sakurai to put him in the game - as they were good friends: https://www.engadget.com/2012-03-19-thank-kojimas-son-for-getting-snake-into-smash-bros-brawl.html Not to mention Snake's games are all about stealth, avoiding conflict, and within all the gun violence, incorporates a lot sci-fi fantasy elements that GTA does not.

Bayonetta's exception is merely the fact that Nintendo bought out part of the Bayonetta franchise and is permitted entry by that metric. Not to mention her world is grounded in fantasy and is more akin to Dante's games, hack'n'slash ect. Slicing and dicing demons are not the same as mowing down innocent civilians.

GTA's image is centralized around crime, killing innocents, gangs, and drugs. There is no overarching story that goes beyond that. There is simply no angle from Rockstar/Nintendo that could push it into kid friendly territory. You're talking about street gangs, meth heists, control over black markets, prostitution, mexican drug lords, ect ect. You can say that they will "tone" down things just like they did with Bayo and Snake but those characters had other avenues to permit them existing in Smash. GTA simply doesn't. Even beyond the original game, the sandbox world allows you to really do whatever you want and as far as my own personal experience goes, leads to some messed up stuff. And again, personal experience speaking here, I've never played any GTA game with my friends for very long before it devolved into chasing after that elusive 4 or 5 star wanted bar and just killing and blowing up everything. That's why the game was fun to me and I'd imagine many others.

I know many will try to come in here and explain that GTA is way more than that because of mods, the story, and interpersonal relationships that you've built online. But I just don't see it. It's a very different beast than any other game in smash. I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong if it was ever announced for Smash. But I don't think Sakurai is the kind of developer that will endorse an extraordinary violent game like GTA.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Tbh, the reason I wouldn't care that much for a GTA rep is because, to me, the main draw of the series is the sandbox aspect.

I don't really see how they'd make a character interesting unless they went full ham with letting you steal **** from the background or something.

That said, I can't deny it would make headlines if it happened.

 

[JamesDNaux]

GTA has ghosts, aliens, big foot, flying cars, jetpacks, and Big Smoke. Only since GTA4 did the series start getting super serious, San Andreas was over the top and wacky. Saying every mature series in Smash can be toned down but GTA can't is disingenuous at best, you're not gonna be beating up hookers in Smash, just like you're not delving into the minds of rapists ala Persona, removing bombs from questionable places ala MGS, or straight up being the hooker ala Bayonetta.

It's not a question of toning down the mature from any given franchise so much as just... not even acknowledging it. Only Bayonetta had to be toned down given her penchant for stripping, every other mature character in Smash just does what they normally do, it's the context from the games that make them mature, not the characters themselves. CJ can totally pop a cap in Mario if given the chance, not that it's particularly likely to happen anyway.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Koei-Tecmo has a very good relationship with Nintendo, helping with the development of FE Three Houses, one of their 2019 key titles and Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, plus let them do Warriors versions of Zelda and Fire Emblem. Even let them do a prequel of Breath of the Wild, one of the biggest and most important Switch titles. If I were Nintendo, I would give them Murasame IP and do a Ni-Oh type game. (maybe for Switch succesor?)

They also support Switch with most of their releases, the only exception was with Dead or Alive franchise, although the 6th installment was a mess and don’t sold very well, but maybe they will try again like they are doing with DW9 and its Empires version.

I think it “makes sense” to let Koei-Tecmo have a rep of their own in Smash.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Sales figures are fine and dandy but the hyper realistic world of GTA just does not align with Nintendo and its ideals. Minecraft accomplished the sales figures you're describing while remaining kid friendly.

Outside of Snake and Bayonetta - which both characters aren't even remotely close to just gunning down giant packs of innocent civilians - there is no character in smash presently that treads the line of violence that GTA walks.

Snake cannot be used as a baseline for entry in smash simply because he cheated the system by having his original creator beg Sakurai to put him in the game - as they were good friends: https://www.engadget.com/2012-03-19-thank-kojimas-son-for-getting-snake-into-smash-bros-brawl.html Not to mention Snake's games are all about stealth, avoiding conflict, and within all the gun violence, incorporates a lot sci-fi fantasy elements that GTA does not.

Bayonetta's exception is merely the fact that Nintendo bought out part of the Bayonetta franchise and is permitted entry by that metric. Not to mention her world is grounded in fantasy and is more akin to Dante's games, hack'n'slash ect. Slicing and dicing demons are not the same as mowing down innocent civilians.

GTA's image is centralized around crime, killing innocents, gangs, and drugs. There is no overarching story that goes beyond that. There is simply no angle from Rockstar/Nintendo that could push it into kid friendly territory. You're talking about street gangs, meth heists, control over black markets, prostitution, mexican drug lords, ect ect. You can say that they will "tone" down things just like they did with Bayo and Snake but those characters had other avenues to permit them existing in Smash. GTA simply doesn't. Even beyond the original game, the sandbox world allows you to really do whatever you want and as far as my own personal experience goes, leads to some messed up stuff. And again, personal experience speaking here, I've never played any GTA game with my friends for very long before it devolved into chasing after that elusive 4 or 5 star wanted bar and just killing and blowing up everything. That's why the game was fun to me and I'd imagine many others.

I know many will try to come in here and explain that GTA is way more than that because of mods, the story, and interpersonal relationships that you've built online. But I just don't see it. It's a very different beast than any other game in smash. I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong if it was ever announced for Smash. But I don't think Sakurai is the kind of developer that will endorse an extraordinary violent game like GTA.

I don't think the reasoning behind the M Rating would affect much about the consideration since you're introducing M Rated characters and series to children regardless. From what I know about the series, (which is very little) implementation doesn't seem too difficult. It would make them a rough n' tumble character with a ton of dirty tricks like stealing items and stuff, and while the games have a realistic setting, you can get your hands on very unrealistic tech like jet packs and airplanes, and that could give you quite a bit to work with. The biggest issue would probably be the fact that this is a gun heavy character, and guns typically aren't allowed, though Joker has a gun in every way but in lore, so it may not be as big of a problem as it used to be.

I don't really see how they'd make a character interesting unless they went full ham with letting you steal **** from the background or something.

You have given me the mental image of a GTA character stealing Morgana as he drives past Mementos.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think that Sakurai would endorse a series that once had an AO-rated game.

 

[3BitSaurus]

You have given me the mental image of a GTA character stealing Morgana as he drives past Mementos.

Trailer starts with Joker driving through Mementos, until the door opens and someone throws him out of the Morgana car.

"CJ follows the train!"

Classic mode is similar to Cloud's, as if to imply he's stealing the rides of the Smash characters. Big Smoke appears in the Final Smash.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Trailer starts with Joker driving through Mementos, until the door opens and someone throws him out of the Morgana car.

"CJ follows the train!"

Classic mode is similar to Cloud's, as if to imply he's stealing the rides of the Smash characters. Big Smoke appears in the Final Smash.

If this doesn’t happen in the trailer imma be disappointed:

“I’ll have two number nines, a number nine large - ”
“Sir this is Mementos.”