Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Rie Sonomura]

Wait... Does the filter work on images? Or is it just for text?

Text. You gotta blot out the word if it’s an image or put it under a spoiler box

if it’s a tweet or video that contains swearing, direct link instead of embedding

 

[7NATOR]

Apprantly, on the Steve/Alex News Page, They said Fighters would be released during 2021, but did not mention December

Is it likely that we get next 4 Fighters before December 2021. Also i do gotta ask, why all this time did we assume December 2021 was the hard Release month for all the Fighters, it could just be Long deadline just to make sure Fighters release before then, but not have to release on that month

 

[Blargg888]

[MUFFLED “TWISTER” PLAYING IN THE DISTANCE]

Oh yeah it’s all coming together

Neku time.

Brainwave mainwave...
I gotta finish that game sometime soon.
From what I have played though, I think Neku could have a super interesting moveset.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Oh man... I really, really want Mortal Kombat in Smash so bad! Censored Mortal Kombat would be a perfect fit for Smash. The first game was censored on the SNES and Game Boy so there's precedent.

Scorpion's Final Smash (Fatality) can be the same... taking off his mask to reveal his skull and then breathing fire... but instead of burning to death, the opponent gets blasted off the stage. Stage Fatalities from the Mortal Kombat games can be turned into stage hazards in Smash. It's all toned down to cartoony violence.

Mortal Kombat is as much about camp as it is about gore. They throw in odd characters that say "Toasty!" I mean cmon.
It was also quite important to video game history- not only launching the ESRB, but also pioneering that graphic capture mechanic using real actors for characters. I'd absolutely love Scorpion to get in. He is the Min Min of MK!

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Yay it's my birthday.

Happy birthday dude!

 

[Koopaul]

I honestly don't think we'll be getting another Western fighter. Maaaybe Crash or maaaybe Jonesy. But I have a feeling the next four are all Japanese.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I honestly don't think we'll be getting another Western fighter. Maaaybe Crash or maaaybe Jonsey. But I have a feeling the next four are all Japanese.

I have that feeling too tbh. In fact, I say there's a good chance that's it for western reps.

 

[7NATOR]

I always Wondered

Once FP2 is Over, and Smash Ultimate Development is over, What do you guys think Sakurai and the Team will do next? Yes he might take a break, but at the end of the day he is Doing a Job, So he'll probably go back to something after Ultimate?

Next Smash? New Kid Icarus? Some new I.P?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

If sora ends up in smash, I'll drink water

 

[SneakyLink]

Apprantly, on the Steve/Alex News Page, They said Fighters would be released during 2021, but did not mention December

Is it likely that we get next 4 Fighters before December 2021. Also i do gotta ask, why all this time did we assume December 2021 was the hard Release month for all the Fighters, it could just be Long deadline just to make sure Fighters release before then, but not have to release on that month

Just checked and it's true. The Pass 2 update with Steve/Alex has the following setup:

Spoiler

The Steve/Alex update for Pass 2 as seen in game.

It should be noted however that Min-Min's update says the exact same thing so I'm sure this doesn't mean anything in the long run.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I mean Nomura also produced TWEWY so

at the very least it could be TWEWY2

Yes, TWEWY2 is supposedly being developed as (timed) exclusive for Switch. The question is what kind of game will be, if a 2D game like original DS entry or a full 3D game like Trials of Mana (to give an example).

Its coming 2021, maybe we will get a revealed soon.

PS: Port Nier games (Automata and Gestalt), more old FF and KH games and (at least I) will be (mostly) satisfied with S-E Switch support.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I always Wondered

Once FP2 is Over, and Smash Ultimate Development is over, What do you guys think Sakurai and the Team will do next? Yes he might take a break, but at the end of the day he is Doing a Job, So he'll probably go back to something after Ultimate?

Next Smash? New Kid Icarus? Some new I.P?

Hopefully they make a new F-Zero game?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I honestly don't think we'll be getting another Western fighter. Maaaybe Crash or maaaybe Jonesy. But I have a feeling the next four are all Japanese.

People said the same thing RIGHT before we got Steve.

 

[metalhydra273]

People said the same thing RIGHT before we got Steve.

Did people really think we'd go the whole pass without a single western fighter? Crash alone seemed like a good bet for it before fp6 reveal

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I always Wondered

Once FP2 is Over, and Smash Ultimate Development is over, What do you guys think Sakurai and the Team will do next? Yes he might take a break, but at the end of the day he is Doing a Job, So he'll probably go back to something after Ultimate?

Next Smash? New Kid Icarus? Some new I.P?

Definitely Kid Icarus Uprising 2.

Am still waiting for the first one to be ported...

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Did people really think we'd go the whole pass without a single western fighter? Crash alone seemed like a good bet for it before fp6 reveal

Oh yeah, they were using that as a detract. I can’t count how many times I heard “Banjo seems like a 1 time deal”

 

[3BitSaurus]

I think we're up for one more western fighter... and that's it.

Even though the floodgates are open, I still can't see anything higher than a 2:4 split between western and eastern characters. Not in a single Pass, at least.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So Sora isn't in Pass 2?

No. But if they got the opportunity to add Sora, I'm sure they'd do another pass for it. Even if he was the only character in it.

Well given Square Enix's less than impressive porting history with Nintendo in the last 20 years we know its probably not about putting any of the mainline KH games on Switch so that's one possibility ruled out.

Put Super Mario RPG or Chrono Trigger on the SNES Online!

 

[metalhydra273]

Oh yeah, they were using that as a detract. I can’t count how many times I heard “Banjo seems like a 1 time deal”

Just seems weird because a lot of top requests on polls and just general talk over here are western popular characters, like crash and master chief. Feels weird that people weren't confident we'll get at least 1 this fighter's pass especially from what i've seen. I wonder how different japanese speculation is.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I think we're up for one more western fighter... and that's it.

Even though the floodgates are open, I still can't see anything higher than a 2:4 split between western and eastern characters. Not in a single Pass, at least.

If so I'm still willing to place my bet on Master Chief. A big risk yes but I'm taking it.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Apprantly, on the Steve/Alex News Page, They said Fighters would be released during 2021, but did not mention December

Is it likely that we get next 4 Fighters before December 2021. Also i do gotta ask, why all this time did we assume December 2021 was the hard Release month for all the Fighters, it could just be Long deadline just to make sure Fighters release before then, but not have to release on that month

The first pass ended a month before the deadline, so its not hard to imagine the second could end 1-2 months before as well.. A general release schedule like this seems reasonable:

Fighter 8: January
Fighter 9: April
Fighter 10: July
Fighter 11: October

As far as Western characters, its hard for me to imagine anyone but Crash given he has fandoms in Japan and the West compared to most viable Western fighters who aren't in already.

 

[SharkLord]

Yay it's my birthday.

Happy birthday!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

SO...
Henry Stickmin for Smash?

Spoiler: Media

As much as I'd like to see how they'd impliment a character like him, this idea is waaaaaaay too much. A player cannot reasonably be expected to memorize 25 different artifacts that each do 4 different things. You might be able to get away with 100 items that do the same thing every time (though I still wouldn't go that far) but this is just needlessly confusing.

Having a selection wheel for each Special Move would also be incredibly clunky since that's a lot of inputs and decision making required every single time you want a more powerful attack.

People said the same thing RIGHT before we got Steve.

Thinking about it, why is this even a thing? Being owned by a western company may make negotiations harder sure, but I don't see how such harder negotiations would cause Nintendo to limit themselves to just one.

I get the point about appealing to Japan, but even if we were to go with that line of logic, we have yet to receive a DLC character that doesn't really appeal to Japan. At least, not on the level of Dragon Quest. Even Banjo & Kazooie were a well received pick amongst Japanese fans (though they were pretty niche in general all things considered), and Steve is a huge pick worldwide. So if there is only going to be one character with mostly western appeal, we haven't exactly met that quota yet.

 

[Louie G.]

People said the same thing RIGHT before we got Steve.

In my defense, I thought we were only getting one western character in this pass before Steve and now that we have Steve I still believe that.

I was just wrong about who that character was (had the wrong Microsoft character, whoops!).

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I don’t really understand why “western rep” is a thing. Especially considering half of the popular requests are Western. Limiting the pool to Japanese only characters seems like another fan rule just for the fact that it doesn’t happen often. It’s an easy way to narrow someone’s most wanted into that field and, believe me, Hayabusa is my most wanted so I get it. But it’s kind of narrow minded to suggest that’s the case when the two biggest characters, reaction wise, from both passes have been western. Catching lightning in a bottle twice isn’t easy but Nintendo was able to do it through Microsoft, a western company, who’s to say there wasn’t an Activision, Ubisoft, or Bethesda conversation in the cards that happened a while back?

 

[JOJONumber691]

Jonesy is our Third Western Character!

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Jonesy is our Third Western Character!

Watch it. You'll jinx it. A part of me feels he or Tracer might actually get in over Crash.

 

[SKX31]

Wait, take the Master Sword? Already? I thought it would be at least three more games before they found out that the Master Sword is an Aegis forged by the Ancients of Halcandra (you know, the same ones whose technology inspired the creation of the Metal Gears), forcing the party to cross a few dimensional tunnels to get to it.

Also, can we talk about how NO ONE seems to suspect that The End is clearly a part of the World of Darkness and that Xehanort gave one Eye of Ender to his other 12 selves so they can use it later? Good God, it's so obvious it hurts.

The Master Sword's clearly part of the longest con.

In my defense, I thought we were only getting one western character in this pass before Steve and now that we have Steve I still believe that.

I was just wrong about who that character was (had the wrong Microsoft character, whoops!).

It's going to be difficult to say either way because we have no real idea how much B-K "opened the door" on that front (how comfortable Sakurai got with Western devs etc.), and likewise we have no idea if there are any other 1+ year long negotiations happening. It's fully possible that negotiations surrounding Ubisoft, Activision-Blizzard, Bethesda, Epic, Riot / Tencent etc. could have taken a lot of time too. Just as there's a chance that negotiations with Capcom, Koei-Tecmo, Square-Enix etc. could've taken a lot of time.

Still, it's fully possible IMHO that we could see more western characters. Nothing's really preventing that, just as there's nothing really preventing Japanese third parties or Nintendo-owned characters.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And retro legacy picks can still happen for DLC. Just look at Banjo because Nuts and Bolts definitely doesn't count.

And while Terry is still very active due to King of Fighters, his own series hasn't had a game since 1999, so it's debatable whether he's retro or not, I guess.

Either way, point is being retro shouldn't be an argument to gatekeep characters. Even if I'm wrong on both examples, I'm still gonna defend that point because any reason for people to gatekeep a video game character from being in Smash is a bad one when you realize the collective community hive mind has always been wrong with guesses without a leaker giving away the answers.

I mean. Nuts and Bolts should count as retro, that's 12 years old

About that GTA thing:

FINAL UPDATEhttps://t.co/nSkBr8TUEB

It's fake

I'm sorry bros

— FightShack | Yuusha (@Yuu_sure) October 16, 2020

It was debunked

Says who? I need Miku's word on that, not some loon who wants to murder people

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Crash, Jonesy, Master Chief, and Tracer I feel as of current has the best chances for the next and last western rep.

I still expect Master Chief as this internet-breaking surprise.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean. Nuts and Bolts should count as retro, that's 12 years old

12 years is not old!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

12 years is not old!

It's only 3 years less than Ice Climber was when it was introduced to Smash

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's only 3 years less than Ice Climber was when it was introduced to Smash

Then at the time, they were not retro characters.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Then at the time, they were not retro characters.

In that case Retro Rep is officially dead

 

[Louie G.]

Still, it's fully possible IMHO that we could see more western characters. Nothing's really preventing that, just as there's nothing really preventing Japanese third parties or Nintendo-owned characters.

Yeah don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's impossible. Your guess is as good as mine. I just think it's important to keep in mind how the values and priorities of a Japanese company may (and probably will) differ a lot from what we, the western Smash community, may perceive as important, popular or likely.

On a side note, it kinda bugs me when people simplify this stance to mean that arbitrarily people are disqualifying western "reps" just because of a quota or whatever. There's more to it than that - I've taken most of those characters into account individually and I still don't think they're likely.
Not every disagreement is a fanrule, etc. etc.

 

[Faso115]

Imagine if we have 2 more western characters coming.

Besides Crash, i actually believe a Bethesda owned character has a decent shot.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I don’t really understand why “western rep” is a thing. Especially considering half of the popular requests are Western. Limiting the pool to Japanese only characters seems like another fan rule just for the fact that it doesn’t happen often. It’s an easy way to narrow someone’s most wanted into that field and, believe me, Hayabusa is my most wanted so I get it. But it’s kind of narrow minded to suggest that’s the case when the two biggest characters, reaction wise, from both passes have been western. Catching lightning in a bottle twice isn’t easy but Nintendo was able to do it through Microsoft, a western company, who’s to say there wasn’t an Activision, Ubisoft, or Bethesda conversation in the cards that happened a while back?

Honestly, it probably has to do with the fact that the only two western characters we have came in two different seasons.

I do think we'll see another one in Volume 2. But then you also have to consider the characters and companies individually:

• Activision could get Crash. From the Blizzard side, Overwatch seems down for the count after that interview some time ago, so that would leave WoW, Starcraft and Diablo, and I'm not sure how much pull these have with the japanese crowd.
• Ubi had two really big contenders: Rayman and Assassin's Creed. The former was a hard flop in Japan and despite the push from fans and Ubisoft themselves, only got a single base game Spirit. And AC got a DLC Mii Costume at the very end of last season, when Volume 2 was already decided.
• Bethesda got a Fallout costume in Volume 2 and Doom looks to be disconfirmed via interviews with developers. So that would pretty much leave Elder Scrolls as the only major contender.

Aside from that, there's others, like Riot, Valve and Epic, but since their relations with Nintendo are fairly limited, they don't come up as often in conversation.

Compared to how we could get a double dip from Square, the big pool of Capcom and Namco characters left, as well as all-new japanese companies like Arcsys, Level-5, Tecmo and others... it's no wonder people aren't expecting a lot of western characters to suddenly show up.

 

[RileyXY1]

Imagine if we have 2 more western characters coming.

Besides Crash, i actually believe a Bethesda owned character has a decent shot.

I see that you want the Dragonborn in Smash.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Imagine if we have 2 more western characters coming.

Besides Crash, i actually believe a Bethesda owned character has a decent shot.

Crap, I actually had forgotten Dovahkiin. Add him to the list then.

 

[RGFS]

Same, though if we get another Western Character, Crash has some VERY tough competition with Jonesy. I wish that wasn't the case, but Fortnite is just that big.

Yeah, I know this is like 10 pages back but I do want to say some things about Crash and Fortnite's chances.

You're underestimating Crash and overestimating Jonesy I feel. Miinecraft is bigger and has more of a legacy but it still took 5 years and Banjo was seen as a better priority to be introduced first based on his legacy, amount of requests, and staple impact on the N64 and Nintendo. Crash himself would be in a similar boat. The most iconic mascot platformer character not in Smash. Long standing and respected fan request with critical acclaim. The other challenger of the 90s console wars as well as the original Sony PlayStation representative, it just makes more sense happening sooner than Fortnite if we go by precedent.

I have no cringeworthy hatred towards Fortnite, I'd be cool with them, but it doesn't seem like they were chosen exactly when this pass was decided. Not only that but a build focused character just got added for this pass so I doubt a fighter with such a similar mechanic would be chosen right next to it. It's like if we got Terry Bogard and some other traditional fighting game rep like Heihachi. Sure they could have many differences but I could easily see Jonesy just smacking at the ground of the stage in Smash just like Steve which is an integral part of both movesets. In the end, these packs seem to love brining in new ideas or extra flavor so I doubt that we're getting two characters with builder focused mechanics.

Sure, Fortnite would also be the probable unique gunner for the pass with building elements, but I would probably bet we'd get a more simple gunner with reloading first like Half-Life's Gordon Freeman or Grand Theft Auto's Franklin Clinton. GTA V especially is the second highest selling game of all time. Even before Minecraft got into Smash, GTA is the highest selling series overall not in Super Smash Bros. I think there's a small but clear distinction when something gets big and is free compared to when something is paid and gets just as big. GTA V was free on the Epic Games Store awhile back and it crashed the servers that usually handle Fortnite just fine.

I think we will see Fortnite in Fighter Pass 3 if that ever happens. I'd honestly be pretty happy for the series' fans at that point and would feel it was deserving. It just really doesn't feel right or likely with Steve already being a similar builder and with us still not getting a more practical gunner. I'd argue having Crash isn't what would discredit Fortnite's chances at all. I might was well say I could totally see us getting 3 non-Japanese characters as DLC especially since base game added Dark Samus and King K Rool, I know that's slightly different as Nintendo owned characters but still.

I'm gonna take advantage here and pitch a Crash moveset idea that'll make him feel more plausible for the 2nd Pass
​

Crash himself can have a nice moveset from his abilities in game but also also bring in new mechanics with the masks and truly feel apart of the more experimental extra feel the DLC has been having. Aku Aku could work like a unique mix between Luma and Arsene. An extra shield and range help for Crash that can disappear if Crash takes too much damage. While Aku Aku is active, throws, normals and aerials are powered up with Aku Aku assisting in some way like smacking his face or shooting a laser. The grab itself could also have more reach. Aku Aku would assist best during 0%-50% and after you reach 100% he'll be gone.

With Crash 4 out, we can even give him those new Quantum Masks into the moveset for a sort of more reliable Down Special. The first mask lets Crash phase in new platforms that could either be set on the top or edges of stages, the second mask has Dark Matter abilities so Crash's attacks could stay out longer and deal more damage, the third mask affects time so Crash could move way faster, and the fourth mask affects gravity so Crash is now heavier and it's easier to launch opponents. Some balance can be tied to taking these masks away from Crash after being hit certain percentage with a cooldown time to use them again. These are clearly both inspired by elements from Shulk and Hero.

Boom bang! Now Crash has the potential to be just as unique and experimental to fit in with the others as fighters in the pass.