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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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ROBnWatch

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Post your opinion that will get this kind of reaction from Smash community!

"Japan" argument should be dropped altogether. It's not that important market. Several popular western franchises can more do than make up for Japanese market.
Ahem

Competitive Smash isn’t the only way to play the game, as the game is meant to be balanced between competitive and casual play, and competitive Smash is, in fact, a vocal minority.

Dies on the spot
 

StrangeKitten

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Unpopular Smash opinions?

I like Byleth.
Same, they're a really fun character to play! I knew I'd love them the moment I saw their moveset. I'll do ya one better, though. In addition to Byleth, I like Incineroar and Piranha Plant.

With the west it just didn't catch on, it didn't have the appeal to be able to break into the sphere and wasn't able to find a large market. In Japan, it definitely gave Pokemon a run for its money at the time (even influencing Pokemon in some respects such as the Rotom feature in SM) it fell off due to multiple reasons. Of them, it was oversaturated within a short time period so eventually the supply greatly succeeded the demand, the kids moved on as it wasn't able to maintain the audience it gained, and the attempts to get back the audience such as with the more mature focused Yokai weren't successful. Basically, it imploded on itself and is now nowhere near the heights that it once was.
Doesn't surprise me that it had trouble finding success outside of Japan. Yokai are very Japanese, so most people in other countries aren't really gonna get the reference. It's not like Pokemon, where only a handful each generation are based on yokai.

-Shadow would be a More interesting Character that Crash Bandicoot moveset wise. He'd also be Cooler than Tails and Knuckles in terms of Moveset as well, especially from a Conceptual Standpoint

-I enjoy Fatmanonice's Speculation, even If it's Very Crazy alot of the time and I don't believe it
I agree that Shadow would be more interesting than Tails and Knuckles (as long as he was allowed to have plenty of differences from Sonic and not be too much of an echo. I'd like for him to at least have Chaos Control as a down B). Though of all the Sonic characters, Eggman takes first place for me in terms of moveset. I feel like there's a lot they can do with weapons and his mech!

I also enjoy Fatmanonice's speculation. I don't always agree with it, and I take it with a big grain of salt, but I appreciate his contributions to the discussion!
 

TwiceEXE

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Post your opinion that will get this kind of reaction from Smash community!

"Japan" argument should be dropped altogether. It's not that important market. Several popular western franchises can more do than make up for Japanese market.
Many people are completely unrealistic about what characters could show up as DLC. Saying "sAkUrAi Is UnPrEdIcTaBlE" doesn't change precedent. Sorry your most wanted didn't get into Ultimate. Better luck next Smash.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Honestly I think opinions are so varied than any expression is not necessarily unpopular with everyone. That being said, here's mine:

-Byleth's timing and method of reveal was poorly done and there were numerous ways their announcement could have been done to mitigate the salt somewhat.

-Most Fire Emblem fighters have been made fundamentally fun to play as even to non-fans of the franchise.

-Nintendo/Sakurai should have bitten the bullet in Smash 4 and truly updated older characters with clones of them having the original moveset.

-Hanenbow is not that bad a stage and its good that it was brought back.

-The vast majority of purely Western appeal or Japanese centric characters are not likely to happen in the DLC.

-Brawl had the least fun newcomers outside a few exceptions.

-No Smash game has ever gotten the main (non-Classic) one player campaign completely right. Adventure Mode loses steam halfway, Subspace Emissary has unimpressive platforming along with excess padding, and World of Light is solid but lacks variety.

-If there absolutely had to be a non-gaming character in Smash, Mickey Mouse's legacy in video games for the past 40 years would make him an ideal choice.
 
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Guynamednelson

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sAkUrAi Is UnPrEdIcTaBlE
The idea that Sakurai is unpredictable mostly comes from an inability to think beyond wacky wahoo pizza men and spinny bandicoots. When they're not the only characters being considered, of course you're going to think Sakurai is unpredictable.
 

toonito

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unpopular opinions:

the unpopular opinions thread shouldn't have been locked. i understand things can get heated but discussion is the purpose of a forum.

i've always preferred Smash 4 to Brawl. I think Smash 4 got way more hate than it deserved.

i'd like to see more fighting game characters in Smash

If FE gets cuts I'd cut Ike before Corrin or Byleth (and this is coming from someone who was meh on both their inclusions) Ike doesn't really appeal to me.

I think deluxe Mii costumes should be short characters that fit their proportions. I wouldn't want to see Master Chief, for example, as a deluxe Mii costume.

Even though my most wanted, Ken, is an echo I'd prefer a future Smash game to have no echoes.
 
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It probably would never happen, but I'd really like to see final smashes be more varied in utility and not just an overpowered kill button. More stuff like Peach's sleep attack would be cool. If some were just an early KO, others were a lot of damage, but didn't kill, and some healed or gave a free setup to do something else, it would give the game a lot of variety and could be really fun. It wouldn't really fit the name anymore, but I think it would make people more open to using them and not just turning them off.
 

StrangeKitten

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I'd say Sakurai isn't completely unpredictable, just very difficult to predict. There are a multitude of reasons why characters get in that help us make educated guesses. But, there are many, many characters that would make sense to be added, and only four more slots. And even then, we get characters such as Terry that flew under our radar from time to time.

An unpopular opinion of mine is that Pikachu is not quite one of the best characters in Ultimate. It's still a very good character, but it doesn't have results that match up with being one of the best.
 

SharkLord

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I feel like some people have been underselling Lloyd in favor of Yuri. Not saying that Yuri himself is overrated or his merits of exaggerated, mind you, but Lloyd's been pretty downplayed. Symphonia is pretty much the Tales equivalent to FF7, and Lloyd the Cloud. Heck, Sakurai even said that he thought the Smash 4 Mii Costume-The only Tales representation in the game, mind you-Had to be Lloyd. Yuri may win the popularity vote for the core Tales fanbase, but Lloyd's more recognizable for the general audience and the Smash fanbase, and neither pros should be glossed over.
 

SpectreJordan

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For me sorta the reverse. I think it would be nice to have some niche picks that can appeal to the Japanese audience in the game like Reimu.
Why not both? I think it’d be cool if we get a pick that appealed heavily to the West (Master Chief, DoomGuy, etc...) & one that appealed heavily to Japan (Arle, Yuri, Reimu, etc...)

As for my unpopular Smash opinions:

- Almost all of the most important Nintendo characters are already in Smash & that’s why they’re not as exciting anymore. I’d say Waluigi, some Pokemon like Eevee & maaaybe Akira Howard/Ring Fit are the only big ones left. None of these will be in FP2

- Toad is an incredibly well known character, but I think very few would be excited to seem him be playable in Smash. If there was, then he’d have a big following like Waluigi. Captain Toad would be cool though

- I think Shadow is one of the worst popular fan picks. I have no idea why he’s so much more popular than Eggman, Tails, Knuckles or even Amy.

- A pick that appeals heavily to the West isn’t impossible after characters that do the opposite like Hero. Nintendo knows the US makes up the majority of Smash players/money

- The people who only want cartoony characters annoy me, as they often act pretty entitled. I love the cartoony characters & want some new ones too. But we’ve had realistic/anime characters in Smash since day one through:ultsamus::ultfalcon::ultlink:. Being cartoony is NOT a defining trait of Smash Bros
 

Louie G.

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Unpopular Opinions:

- Smash 4 and Ultimate have drained Smash of a unique identity. The aesthetics were so much more striking and almost ominous in 64 and Melee, and Brawl genuinely felt like a meeting of the gods. Smash 4 and Ultimate are stale bread.

- On a similar note, I don't like spirits in theory because the "toys come to life" gimmick is all but abandoned and the trophy selection was so much more magical and charming. It's almost as if they forgot the point.

- Punch-Out is the single poorest represented first party in the game. Aside from his most obvious shortcoming, Little Mac's character design fails to properly represent the actual mechanics and feel of the series (having super armor, having your meter increase when you get hit... this isn't Punch Out), and in a series full of dynamic and colorful boxers not a single one has shown up as an AT (not even Glass Joe!!!). Not to mention the barest bones song selection which doesn't even bother to port over the Wii boxer themes - which have no excuse to be excluded now that we have the (fantastic) ARMS soundtrack fully represented and half of them use the same motif. PO!! is treated like a retro series akin to Ice Climber or Duck Hunt when it has no right to be. (Rant over)

- Meanwhile, a series that nobody seems to recognize is also poorly represented is Street Fighter. There are more games than SF2, you know. Ryu and Ken are great additions to the series, I love the music that we do have, but god... SF3 and Alpha tracks are sorely absent (Third Strike, come on!!). The legacy of SF represented in Smash is basically regulated to a single game with a few moveset exceptions.

- What happened to Rhythm Heaven is downright unfair. Unlike the infamous Forbidden Seven, Rhythm Heaven was presumably fit to be a full, brand new series worth of representation introduced to the Smash universe. Why that fell through we still don't know, but it makes me incredibly upset that it was never revisited for Ultimate and we're left with such a poor excuse of a song selection. It should be here.

- As a hardcore fan of Kirby, the classic vs modern stuff is so heavily overblown. There's plenty of room for improvement (a stage, an AT...), but it makes sense that Kirby Super Star of all games has the most representation - it was the most pivotal game in the series and literally set the foundation for Smash as we know it. And as for ignoring modern characters on the roster, Kirby / Dedede / Meta Knight are still the most important characters in the modern games. Not to say there aren't plenty of Kirby characters who would make downright fantastic additions to the roster... but we're alright. There are plenty of series worse off than Kirby.

- Speaking of Kirby, the most baffling moveset omission in the entire series is Kirby's dtilt not being his Slide attack. C'mon Sakurai, you of all people should have fixed this by now.

- Sonic's moveset isn't as bad as people act like it is. You can do a little more with it, add some Sonic Battle moves, give him a new Side B at least but I mean... Sonic is known for curling up in a ball and rolling around. That's his thing. If you wanna complain about something make it his copy pasted aerials.

- Isabelle was as essential of an addition as Inkling. She's here to stay and doesn't get the respect she deserves. Wish her moveset was better though.

- Also Tom Nook is the most important first party character left. Dead serious.

- Xenoblade doesn't need more characters. It would be fine if they did get one, but let's avoid making it the next Fire Emblem please.

- Shin Megami Tensei should have been represented over Persona. I get it though, Joker got more people talking than an SMT character would have.

- Resident Evil was robbed. It's probably the most glaring third party omission, although I admit there are obvious things that could have led to its exclusion.

- Puyo Puyo should also have content in Smash. Not enough people recognizing how important this series is. If Puyo wasn't a puzzle game series and was a platformer or an RPG instead, the community would think Arle was a no-brainer. Expand your horizons and get creative!
 
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DarthEnderX

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Much as I like this game, I'd rather not be stuck with it forever.
I'd rather be stuck with it forever{especially if they keep adding to it), than have to start over with a roster half the size or smaller.

Yeah. I would much prefer a full 3D Smash game.
Get out of here with that Pokken ****.

Unpopular opinions?

If Smash were to continue on after Ultimate and they cut a majority of the roster I would, at that point, probably drop the series.
Same. I likely wouldn't come back until they got everyone back.

I did the same thing in Pokemon. After Catching 'em All in Gen 1 and 2, I dropped the series after Gen 3 made it impossible to do that. I didn't come back till HeartGold, when that became possible again.
 
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SharkLord

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- Puyo Puyo should also have content in Smash. Not enough people recognizing how important this series is. If Puyo wasn't a puzzle game series and was a platformer or an RPG instead, the community would think Arle was a no-brainer. Expand your horizons and get creative!
Actually, I think I've heard some people say she's treated similarly to Banjo in Japan. Can anyone clarify that for me? If true, that could be huge for her Also it would give me an excuse to actually check out Puyo Puyo in full
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Nabbed from the Geno thread, but interesting to think about


I want to divert everyone’s attention for a second that another Smash Online Open is scheduled for late October and ends on November 1st.
I know there was another one like this that happened close to Min Min’s reveal, but has this happened any other time? I would like to think this is an indicator that we are getting #8 in November, but I’m not sure.
 

Idon

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I'd rather be stuck with it forever{especially if they keep adding to it), than have to start over with a roster half the size or smaller.
Then feel free to keep playing this game for the rest of the foreseeable future. God knows the Melee people do.
 
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SKX31

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Ahem

Competitive Smash isn’t the only way to play the game, as the game is meant to be balanced between competitive and casual play, and competitive Smash is, in fact, a vocal minority.

Dies on the spot
There is a point to be made that competitive wasn't the intent in the first place (although Sakurai was the first one to reveal a little thing called wavedashing in a Japanese Q&A. He didn't think it'd have much impact... oh boy.). Hell, in the competitive scene's infancy (2002) the scene's founder straight up used an account on these boards (the old version anyhow) and claimed he was the best Smash player in the world. People entered his tournament to prove him wrong, and thus his gambit succeeded - the tournament series he hosted went from 6-7 people to 50 entrants.

And thus that snowballed into a business where the highest-profile tournaments / matches can reach 10K+ spectators regularily and the top players are sponsored by organizations like Red Bull and the Golden State Warriors (really).

But as that number suggest, it's still the minority and most people will just enjoy Smash for being a party / party fighting hybrid. It's just that the competitive scene is not just the vocal minority... the more competitive people will generally play the games for longer and generally fuel the above mentioned business. Since they generally play the games longer, characters that are notable in the scene also become associated with specific Smash games in the long term.

Unpopular Opinions:

- Sonic's moveset isn't as bad as people act like it is. You can do a little more with it, add some Sonic Battle moves, give him a new Side B at least but I mean... Sonic is known for curling up in a ball and rolling around. That's his thing. If you wanna complain about something make it his copy pasted aerials.
That I fully understand - my personal gripe with Sonic (as do most competitive-leaning people) is that he's not fun to play against at all. Giving him a more commital moveset like the Battle attacks and a new Side B would do wonders, as would moves like the Insta-Shield or the Boost. He could still have spinning as his main burst option, I just think it'd need more fine-tuning so his playstyle is more aggressive and has that Sonic attitude and flair.
 
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Louie G.

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Actually, I think I've heard some people say she's treated similarly to Banjo in Japan. Can anyone clarify that for me? If true, that could be huge for her Also it would give me an excuse to actually check out Puyo Puyo in full
I can't really speak confidently on specifically Arle's Smash popularity overseas, but I know it's significant enough. Puyo is a very big deal in Japan and slowly but surely has been gaining traction over here in the west as well - but it's clearly not quite at that same level (Smash would certainly help though!). It's a legendary franchise and if Tetris is the father of puzzle games, Puyo is the mother. Not to mention Puyo 2 was a success in Japanese arcades that could stand toe to toe with Street Fighter 2. And Puyo on every Nintendo console!! Well, except Virtual Boy, but it was even planned for that too!

You should definitely check out Puyo regardless of Smash! If you have SNES Online, you can play Puyo 2 quite easily. It's unfortunately not translated but it's still a good time and its easy to get the idea - years later this is still hailed as the best game in the series. Puyo Fever and of course Puyo Tetris (which is on Switch) are properly localized, and all of the games have hilarious dialogue and great characters, so if and when you can play these games translated you definitely should.

That I fully understand - my personal gripe with Sonic (as do most competitive-leaning people) is that he's not fun to play against at all. Giving him a more commital moveset like the Battle attacks and a new Side B would do wonders, as would moves like the Insta-Shield or the Boost. He could still have spinning as his main form of movement, I just think it'd need more fine-tuning so his playstyle is more aggressive and has that Sonic attitude and flair.
Oh yeah I agree with that. I think Sonic leaves a lot to be desired, I just think it's weird that people have specifically honed in on Sonic spinning all the time as the most glaring negative thing. I get that it can be visually boring, but yknow, Smash likes to pull from classic titles for characters and the Genesis games have notoriously simple controls. Sonic runs and he spins. I think they got that down pretty well, but I'm right there with you in that Sonic is boring as hell to play against lmao.
 
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DarthEnderX

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Then feel free to keep playing this game for the rest of the foreseeable future. God knows the Melee people do.
Oh yeah, lemme play all that fresh new Melee DLC...

Cinematic final smashes are the best type of final smash. I feel like they show off characters' flair and personality a whole lot more.
Agreed. They're also much easier to balance.

Sora would get more money for SE then Geno would
This isn't the Geno thread, no sane person would argue against that.

Unpopular Smash opinions?
I like Byleth.
 
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Will

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Nabbed from the Geno thread, but interesting to think about
Oh ****, I got pretty close last tournament, I'm gonna sign up for this one.

Can't wait for YoseFu to whip my ass with Simon again but at least I'll have a close shot at winning if the bracket favors me in placement. :4pacman:
 

SpectreJordan

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Unpopular Opinions:

- Smash 4 and Ultimate have drained Smash of a unique identity. The aesthetics were so much more striking and almost ominous in 64 and Melee, and Brawl genuinely felt like a meeting of the gods. Smash 4 and Ultimate are stale bread.

- On a similar note, I don't like spirits in theory because the "toys come to life" gimmick is all but abandoned and the trophy selection was so much more magical and charming. It's almost as if they forgot the point.

- Punch-Out is the single poorest represented first party in the game. Aside from his most obvious shortcoming, Little Mac's character design fails to properly represent the actual mechanics and feel of the series (having super armor, having your meter increase when you get hit... this isn't Punch Out), and in a series full of dynamic and colorful boxers not a single one has shown up as an AT (not even Glass Joe!!!). Not to mention the barest bones song selection which doesn't even bother to port over the Wii boxer themes - which have no excuse to be excluded now that we have the (fantastic) ARMS soundtrack fully represented and half of them use the same motif. PO!! is treated like a retro series akin to Ice Climber or Duck Hunt when it has no right to be. (Rant over)

- Meanwhile, a series that nobody seems to recognize is also poorly represented is Street Fighter. There are more games than SF2, you know. Ryu and Ken are great additions to the series, I love the music that we do have, but god... SF3 and Alpha tracks are sorely absent (Third Strike, come on!!). The legacy of SF represented in Smash is basically regulated to a single game with a few moveset exceptions.

- What happened to Rhythm Heaven is downright unfair. Unlike the infamous Forbidden Seven, Rhythm Heaven was presumably fit to be a full, brand new series worth of representation introduced to the Smash universe. Why that fell through we still don't know, but it makes me incredibly upset that it was never revisited for Ultimate and we're left with such a poor excuse of a song selection. It should be here.

- As a hardcore fan of Kirby, the classic vs modern stuff is so heavily overblown. There's plenty of room for improvement (a stage, an AT...), but it makes sense that Kirby Super Star of all games has the most representation - it was the most pivotal game in the series and literally set the foundation for Smash as we know it. And as for ignoring modern characters on the roster, Kirby / Dedede / Meta Knight are still the most important characters in the modern games. Not to say there aren't plenty of Kirby characters who would make downright fantastic additions to the roster... but we're alright. There are plenty of series worse off than Kirby.

- Speaking of Kirby, the most baffling moveset omission in the entire series is Kirby's dtilt not being his Slide attack. C'mon Sakurai, you of all people should have fixed this by now.

- Sonic's moveset isn't as bad as people act like it is. You can do a little more with it, add some Sonic Battle moves, give him a new Side B at least but I mean... Sonic is known for curling up in a ball and rolling around. That's his thing. If you wanna complain about something make it his copy pasted aerials.

- Isabelle was as essential of an addition as Inkling. She's here to stay and doesn't get the respect she deserves. Wish her moveset was better though.

- Also Tom Nook is the most important first party character left. Dead serious.

- Xenoblade doesn't need more characters. It would be fine if they did get one, but let's avoid making it the next Fire Emblem please.

- Shin Megami Tensei should have been represented over Persona. I get it though, Joker got more people talking than an SMT character would have.

- Resident Evil was robbed. It's probably the most glaring third party omission, although I admit there are obvious things that could have led to its exclusion.

- Puyo Puyo should also have content in Smash. Not enough people recognizing how important this series is. If Puyo wasn't a puzzle game series and was a platformer or an RPG instead, the community would think Arle was a no-brainer. Expand your horizons and get creative!
I 100% agree with the Street Fighter & Resident Evil parts.

I really want to know what happened with SF’s music. Capcom is usually very cooperative with crossovers & I’m sure Sakurai is a fan of more than just SF2. No Third Strike, Alpha or SFV music is a sin; those games have some of the best OSTs in gaming history. Hell, we didn’t even get Akuma’s theme which is FROM SF2!

No Resident Evil character is a head scratcher too. Sakurai’s stated he’s wanted to use Smash as a way to showcase how great Japanese games are. Why skip over such a legendary Japanese IP that is the definitive series of a huge genre? The only thing that’ll explain it is if we get another Capcom in their place for moveset potential or Capcom wanting to promote it.

Oooooor tinfoil hat time. Claire Redfield is going to star in a Switch exclusive RE game & she’ll get into Smash to promote it. She was strangely absent from the spirits after all. She’s also starring in the Netflix animated series & the new movie. It’s Claire’s time to shine, babyyy. <_____<
 
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Guynamednelson

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just very difficult to predict
He would be easier to predict if Smash fans could think of context for why a character would be included beyond "they'd cause a lot of happy internet screaming in the West." Granted, we probably still wouldn't predict ARMS, but maybe Terry would be more predicted.
 
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Will

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Trophies were nice, and I wasn't initially upset by the Spirits, but what really made me sad were the descriptions being taken away. There's no point of really obtaining them if there's no historical excerpt like the past Smash games, these are just .png's. Trophies without the excerpts are worthless as well IMO.
 
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I feel like some people have been underselling Lloyd in favor of Yuri. Not saying that Yuri himself is overrated or his merits of exaggerated, mind you, but Lloyd's been pretty downplayed. Symphonia is pretty much the Tales equivalent to FF7, and Lloyd the Cloud. Heck, Sakurai even said that he thought the Smash 4 Mii Costume-The only Tales representation in the game, mind you-Had to be Lloyd. Yuri may win the popularity vote for the core Tales fanbase, but Lloyd's more recognizable for the general audience and the Smash fanbase, and neither pros should be glossed over.
I'm mostly just surprised Symphonia hasn't been ported to Switch yet. Part of the thing with "the obvious Tales character" is that Yuri was Xbox only in the west until recently. Even though his game is loved, it had a very small audience. It doesn't anymore. There's something to be said for a character from a game that is buyable. People who don't know Yuri can check his game out far easier than people who don't know Lloyd. If Symphonia had a Switch port, I'd say it was a no-brainer, but it doesn't.

I do think Lloyd has as good of a chance as Yuri, but I don't think it's mainly a recognizability thing and more a question of whether the past or present is more important to Sakurai and Nintendo. Do they go for the older character with a stronger tie to Nintendo, or a slightly newer one with accessibility? I think it could go either way, though I will admit Yuri would have had a stronger case in pass 1, since the rerelease of his game would have been more fresh in people's minds.
 

Louie G.

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Arle strikes me as moe bull**** at best and loli degeneracy at worst.
Spoken like someone who hasn't bothered to do even surface level research on Puyo Puyo.

If "loli degeneracy" is the first thing you think of when you see a young girl character I think that says a lot about you.
 
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