Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

There is no 3rd Strike music in Smash.

This is why I have restless nights in bed.

There's also no Volcanic Rim from IV. Why?

I've been thinking about it high and low, and I think that people who think Ryu is the most likely KT rep might want to look at this article (forgive the fact that it's in French).

French

THIS IS HOW I SHINE!

You're probably referring to this part.

Rough translation: "I've never talked with Mr. Sakurai (Masahiro Sakurai, the creator of the Super Smash Bros series), but if I had the chance to do it I would ask him with pleasure, and I would probably choose Kasumi."

But here's the thing; the question is about which Dead or Alive character he'd want to bring, not Koei Tecmo in general.

Rough translation: "Speaking of Smash Bros, if you could take a character from DOA and impliment them in Smash's roster, which would you choose?"

And while Hayabusa frequently appears in DoA, he originates from Ninja Gaiden, so maybe that's why he wasn't mentionned?

 

[SpectreJordan]

I'm not sure that it would mean anything necessarily bad for 3rd parties as much as it COULD (emphasis on COULD) hurt 1st parties more.

With a character like Dante, you could get away with adding him without a game coming up. That said, I personally don't think the entirety of Volume 2 was planned that far in advance, rather as @Speed Weed suggested- starting as 1 or 2 additional characters and eventually blooming into a larger product when collaborations continued.

I think base roster content is a weird area right now- we know that having a spirit isn't a hard disconfirm if coming from base. At the risk of sounding biased, I will preface my next thought with this- I frankly think Monster Hunter could have among the coolest movesets in newcomers and I'd be hyped for them even if I don't get Dante. But I do have to wonder what their fate would be given their mii costume (which has yet to be seen) and the Rathalos boss in base roster.

The only major difference with Monster Hunter and Devil May Cry is that one has a fairly visible appearance in Smash already- a series that is largely represented by what we already have. It doesn't mean that a Hunter wouldn't work- quite the opposite. I just think it's a weird situation for a franchise to be in.

I don’t think MonHun is 100% confirmed. But I think one thing that really helps their chances is Monster Hunter: World. People (including myself) have brought the healthy amount of MonHun content in the base roster & think that’s it. While they could happen, that content was most likely decided on in 2016 or 2017. Before Monster Hunter: World.

Monster Hunter: World changed everything about the franchise. It went from a very popular series in Japan with a cult Western following to one of the biggest games ever.

MonHun: World is currently at 15 mil copies sold (2 mil in Japan). That puts it only behind GTAV & Red Dead Redemption 2 (maybe Minecraft? That data is harder to find) for total sales this gen. Which is insane. It’s definitely the type of thing that could get Capcom & Nintendo to reconsider the MonHun representation in Smash.

It’s not a guaranteed ticket into Smash & I still think Dante has a good shot. But it’d definitely explain why they would reconsider MH.

I know I've seen that folks are saying that Steve would be the major character of the pass and that we may not get other "big" characters alongside him. I only half agree.

Steve is absolutely huge- the largest, in fact. There's not really a viable argument that they could go bigger than him in terms of influence or size. That said, I do think there's space for a pick or two that could blow up the fanbase in terms of reaction. There's also the fact that while Steve is a major pick, it's not necessarily something that appeals to everybody. My guess is we're sure to get at least one more pick that at least attempts to knock socks off for not just the Smash fanbase specifically but everybody.

There's also the fact that while some of the series we commonly talk about are "big" topics, their relative size isn't as crazy. Devil May Cry, for example, isn't nearly the biggest series Capcom has. NieR, while not as commonly discussed, isn't all that large either. I'm uncertain of what Crash Bandicoot costs, but I would think that if Nintendo thought it'd be worth it, they'd go for it. Min Min didn't cost them anything, so who knows what they're gonna do next.

If Hayabusa really is in this pass, then that's another character that isn't necessarily huge.

Really I kinda think the "budget" thing is overblown. It doesn't mean I think they're packing things with 4 more SSS tier characters, but I don't think it's as though they're in dire straights with budgeting. If they want particular characters, they're gonna get them.

I definitely agree here. I don’t think they’d go to previous E3s with Everyone Is Here!, Hero & Steve then for the final (?) E3, they have someone who isn’t on that same scale. Nintendo obviously knows how important the big reveals; 2 of them in a pass of 6 isn’t impossible.

& yeah there’s a ton of beloved characters who aren’t from the biggest series. So we definitely aren’t “doomed” to get characters no one asked for.

 

[The_Naraotor]

After watching the last video speculation of papagenos I think the last DLC fighter are

Dante with Monster Hunter Mii Fighter
Lloyd Irving with a Klonoa Deluxe Mii Fighter
Doomguy with a Rayman Deluxe Mii Fighter
Sora with a Geno Deluxe Mii Fighter

 

[Lionfranky]

After watching the last video speculation of papagenos I think the last DLC fighter are

Dante with Monster Hunter Mii Fighter
Lloyd Irving with a Klonoa Deluxe Mii Fighter
Doomguy with a Rayman Deluxe Mii Fighter
Sora with a Geno Deluxe Mii Fighter

Doomguy was deconfirmed. That interview was way too indepth and detailed to be ambiguous.

 

[DX_E]

Doomguy was deconfirmed. That interview was way too indepth and detailed to be ambiguous.

Didn't Grant Kirkhope deconfirm Banjo?

 

[7NATOR]

Didn't Grant Kirkhope deconfirm Banjo?

He Said "not to hold your breath" but that was more or less a Yes or No answer and was up to interpretation. Doomguy's Interview was WAY More In-depth into the Process of Bethesda asking Nintendo about it and saying that nothing serious came out of it, and this interview was Days after Byleth's interview so FP2 was already Finalized months ago (since the Broadcast was recorded in November)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He Said "not to hold your breath" but that was more or less a Yes or No answer and was up to interpretation. Doomguy's Interview was WAY More In-depth into the Process of Bethesda asking Nintendo about it and saying that nothing serious came out of it, and this interview was Days after Byleth's interview so FP2 was already Finalized months ago (since the Broadcast was recorded in November)

There was also only one talk, at least 2 years ago. The second interview does not specify any other talk. It's actually a lot more vague about it and avoiding details.

The talk blatantly did go somewhere in confirming a costume from the same company, and they would have to deny any plausible characters being confirmed due to an NDA. Now if they noted when the second talk was, this would be meaningful. But they didn't. The second interview is not actually indepth nor covers it as well as people claim.

He never left the table outside of Pass 1, where he was actually disconfirmed. It's not a Grant Kirkhope situation, but unless one can confirm when the second talk was, which the interview does not, there's absolutely no evidence any other talk happened at all. It's up in the air exactly if they denied it intentionally for NDA purposes or if some other talk happened(of which we have zero legitimate information on. But secret talks happen all the time).

 

[Dinoman96]

I find it kinda annoying how anytime a company or spokesperson says Nintendo hasn't contacted them in regards for a Smash Bros. fighter, people always point fingers at the Kirkhope situation. Every time.

 

[Zinith]

Grant Kirkhope, the composer person guy, is apparently the final authority on all things Banjo-Kazooie

 

[PK-remling Fire]

I don’t think MonHun is 100% confirmed. But I think one thing that really helps their chances is Monster Hunter: World. People (including myself) have brought the healthy amount of MonHun content in the base roster & think that’s it. While they could happen, that content was most likely decided on in 2016 or 2017. Before Monster Hunter: World.

Monster Hunter: World changed everything about the franchise. It went from a very popular series in Japan with a cult Western following to one of the biggest games ever.

MonHun: World is currently at 15 mil copies sold (2 mil in Japan). That puts it only behind GTAV & Red Dead Redemption 2 (maybe Minecraft? That data is harder to find) for total sales this gen. Which is insane. It’s definitely the type of thing that could get Capcom & Nintendo to reconsider the MonHun representation in Smash.

It’s not a guaranteed ticket into Smash & I still think Dante has a good shot. But it’d definitely explain why they would reconsider MH.

Not to mention that Monster Hunter Rise is also coming out next year, and it seems like Nintendo and Capcom is putting healthy publicity into it. If I didn't know any better, Nintendo could pull something like putting the classic Rathalos Armor Hunter in as a character and putting the MH Rise main character design in as a mii costume, or vice-versa. They could even make a mii costume based around Monster Hunter Stories 2 if they wanted.

With that being said, every time a character is revealed I can't help but get nervous around the mii fighter part to see whether or not Monster Hunter survives again.

 

[7NATOR]

There was also only one talk, at least 2 years ago. The second interview does not specify any other talk. It's actually a lot more vague about it and avoiding details.

The talk blatantly did go somewhere in confirming a costume from the same company, and they would have to deny any plausible characters being confirmed due to an NDA. Now if they noted when the second talk was, this would be meaningful. But they didn't. The second interview is not actually indepth nor covers it as well as people claim.

He never left the table outside of Pass 1, where he was actually disconfirmed. It's not a Grant Kirkhope situation, but unless one can confirm when the second talk was, which the interview does not, there's absolutely no evidence any other talk happened at all. It's up in the air exactly if they denied it intentionally for NDA purposes or if some other talk happened(of which we have zero legitimate information on. But secret talks happen all the time).

I guess so, but I still don't think it paints a good picture for Doomguy. I think the Fact that it said it never went anywhere serious though is a Concern, or that they were never Approached. When it comes to 3rd parties especially, There's at least talks with some of the Current Directors or Leaders of a Particular branch of the Company, in terms of Implementation and stuff, and it seems from the interview that there was nothing like that has happened. If it did happen happen at any point before FP2 was finalized, I don't think the Wording they used in the Article would be used. The Actual interview was Held 3 days before Byleth's Presentation (but was published after), so yeah.

Getting Fallout would be different I assume since that's a different Branch of Bethesda from ID Software and the Doom Branch and yadda yadda

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I guess so, but I still don't think it paints a good picture for Doomguy. I think the Fact that it said it never went anywhere serious though is a Concern, or that they were never Approached. When it comes to 3rd parties especially, There's at least talks with some of the Current Directors or Leaders of a Particular branch of the Company, in terms of Implementation and stuff, and it seems from the interview that there was nothing like that has happened. If it did happen happen at any point before FP2 was finalized, I don't think the Wording they used in the Article would be used. The Actual interview was Held 3 days before Byleth's Presentation (but was published after), so yeah.

Getting Fallout would be different I assume since that's a different Branch of Bethesda from ID Software and the Doom Branch and yadda yadda

It's the same company. They were blatantly approached by Nintendo in the first place. That part is a white lie. In addition, the fact they were talked to also points to how much this refers to an old talk a much longer time ago.

Again, this fits NDA to a tee. They can plausibly deny any idea of playable characters. They did what they could to protect any content from being known. If they said they were approached, then the company would have expected content. Makes Fallout a lot less of a surprise. It's the same reasoning people didn't expect any content from the company, period, because it sounded like nothing went anywhere. Which is blatantly not the case. They clearly did negotiate for stuff. The company cannot get content in Smash unless Nintendo outright asks for it as is in this case.

The interview doesn't actually add up to any current events. It only logically applies to Pass 1, which lacked any actual content. Come pass 2, and we see the company talks led somewhere. Companies absolutely use odd wording to avoid NDA's. I take it what it actually says, the last time they talked, nothing went anywhere. If they can confirm any talk beyond over 2 years ago, then the wording will be actually meaningful. As of now, it's a nothing statement based upon an actual lack of details. He isn't disconfirmed, but does not look like he's in good shape. That's all the evidence really points to at this point.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

cloud barely happened in ultimate. budget isnt the only issue. the other issues include whether or not Nintendo higher-ups deem crash worth the price and judging by crash 4 sales (80 percent lower than N sane trilogy in UK) someone is right and someone is wrong but its very early to tell.
Nintendo and microsoft relationship is not even close to how rough nintendo and activision have been. also remember banjo and steve both have guys with power advocating on their behalf (phil spencer to name one).

Actually Crash 4's sales require a lot more context than a headline can give, the 80% was exclusively for physical games and it fails to mention how the N. Sane Trilogy wasn't full price at launch yet Crash 4 is. You'd be surprised at how much that matters to casual gamers. Everything else you mention is hearsay

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

While I think Its About Time is doing fine all things considered, the funny thing about Crash 4 is that it would doing better if they'd done a simultaneous release on Switch like CTR was. While I think the bulk of sales would still be on PS4 (apparently 82% of copies sold have been on that vs. Xbox), there clearly is a market for Crash with Nintendo fans, and even with a likely delayed release I think we'll see that when (if?) it comes to Switch next year.

 

[7NATOR]

It's the same company. They were blatantly approached by Nintendo in the first place. That part is a white lie. In addition, the fact they were talked to also points to how much this refers to an old talk a much longer time ago.

Again, this fits NDA to a tee. They can plausibly deny any idea of playable characters. They did what they could to protect any content from being known. If they said they were approached, then the company would have expected content. Makes Fallout a lot less of a surprise. It's the same reasoning people didn't expect any content from the company, period, because it sounded like nothing went anywhere. Which is blatantly not the case. They clearly did negotiate for stuff. The company cannot get content in Smash unless Nintendo outright asks for it as is in this case.

The interview doesn't actually add up to any current events. It only logically applies to Pass 1, which lacked any actual content. Come pass 2, and we see the company talks led somewhere. Companies absolutely use odd wording to avoid NDA's. I take it what it actually says, the last time they talked, nothing went anywhere. If they can confirm any talk beyond over 2 years ago, then the wording will be actually meaningful. As of now, it's a nothing statement based upon an actual lack of details. He isn't disconfirmed, but does not look like he's in good shape. That's all the evidence really points to at this point.

It's the Same company, but that doesn't mean that Nintendo/Sakurai will discuss with all of the Company in regards to Smash. While owned by the Same Company, Id Software, who makes Doom and Wolfeinstein among others, is not the Same as Bethesda Game Studios who make the Fallout and Skyrim Games. It's the same with how Rare is Different from Mojiang, or How Atlus is Different from the Team Sonic branch when it comes to Discussions. Now in the Situation with Rare and Mojiang, we See Nintendo talked to Both since Both Banjo and Steve are in Smash, but that doesn't automatically apply to Id Software

The Doom Creator was talking how they Approached Nintendo, it did not went anywhere, and seeing how this interview was 3 Days before Byleth got in, it seems there wasn't anything else that happened in regards to FP2, since it was finalized around November. If there was more talks, I doubt they would go into detail about how they weren't Approached, and they Approached them, and they went nowhere. they could and would have picked better wording. People under NDA don't usually go into detail like this unless either after the content they got is revealed, or there is nothing in the game at all. I've seen Deflections like with SNK talking about the Dog, or Grant saying don't hold your breath, and etc, but they never went into inside talks like this. If there is another example like this though I don't know and I am willing to be proven wrong

For another reference, Here's Shanate's Creator talking about Shantae's Spirit in the game

Shantae Creator Matt Bozon Talks Shantae’s Past, Present, and Future

In Shantae creator Matt Bozon interview, learn more about the latest game's design, past games, and how "Shantae needs an anime."

www.siliconera.com

Nintendo never Approached Matt from what it seems like, they just sent Nintendo some artwork of Shantae and hope they be in the game, and that's how they ended up as Spirit. in any case, they Zipped up and didn't speak too much on it, and only went into the whole process of everything after Shantae's spirit was revealed.

Discussions around Spirits and Playable characters are wildly Different, but If Matt did not Speak intrcatally about the whole Process for a Spirit, I doubt Doom Man would do actually do that if Doomguy was present in Playable form. yes

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

If I had a dollar for everytime someone said Sora without Disney content wouldn't represent the series I probably have enough money to buy a whole new game by now

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's the Same company, but that doesn't mean that Nintendo/Sakurai will discuss with all of the Company in regards to Smash. While owned by the Same Company, Id Software, who makes Doom and Wolfeinstein among others, is not the Same as Bethesda Game Studios who make the Fallout and Skyrim Games. It's the same with how Rare is Different from Mojiang, or How Atlus is Different from the Team Sonic branch when it comes to Discussions. Now in the Situation with Rare and Mojiang, we See Nintendo talked to Both since Both Banjo and Steve are in Smash, but that doesn't automatically apply to Id Software

The Doom Creator was talking how they Approached Nintendo, it did not went anywhere, and seeing how this interview was 3 Days before Byleth got in, it seems there wasn't anything else that happened in regards to FP2, since it was finalized around November. If there was more talks, I doubt they would go into detail about how they weren't Approached, and they Approached them, and they went nowhere. they could and would have picked better wording. People under NDA don't usually go into detail like this unless either after the content they got is revealed, or there is nothing in the game at all. I've seen Deflections like with SNK talking about the Dog, or Grant saying don't hold your breath, and etc, but they never went into inside talks like this. If there is another example like this though I don't know and I am willing to be proven wrong

For another reference, Here's Shanate's Creator talking about Shantae's Spirit in the game

Shantae Creator Matt Bozon Talks Shantae’s Past, Present, and Future

In Shantae creator Matt Bozon interview, learn more about the latest game's design, past games, and how "Shantae needs an anime."

www.siliconera.com

Nintendo never Approached Matt from what it seems like, they just sent Nintendo some artwork of Shantae and hope they be in the game, and that's how they ended up as Spirit. in any case, they Zipped up and didn't speak too much on it, and only went into the whole process of everything after Shantae's spirit was revealed.

Discussions around Spirits and Playable characters are wildly Different, but If Matt did not Speak intrcatally about the whole Process for a Spirit, I doubt Doom Man would do actually do that if Doomguy was present in Playable form. yes

Again, where was this so-called other talk that was during when pass 2 itself was finalized? There's nothing to suggest another talk actually happened.

Nintendo clearly approached Wayforward to get the content. Reality is, it's on Nintendo first, not other companies. That's because they can talk about "how it'd be cool", but they really can't do much otherwise. Even in cases like Kojima who asked, it was actually Sakurai who approached him to get the character in before it could happen. Nintendo does not generally actually take suggestions like that. They initiate 3rd party and licensing talks. They do pay attention to trends and such and might approach someone due to hearing about it at best.

It's barely an inside talk and the timing doesn't even suggest Pass 2 was finalized either. Remember that we don't know when Pass 2 was finalized as is. It could've still been in talks well after January. Many, including myself, thought it was finalized by November 2019. That was never the case. So we still lack any actual real details that makes this interview as meaningful as it could be. There's missing information on our part.

So again, not disconfirmed, but not looking good. Once we get more information, we'll know more.

And note that licensing of any content is not "wildly different" at all. Nintendo wants the content, and has to license it. If they don't want it, suggestions don't help at all.

 

[MooMew64]

If I had a dollar for everytime someone said Sora without Disney content wouldn't represent the series I probably have enough money to buy a whole new game by now

Like, I respect other people's opinions on that, but...I just don't see why the Disney thing is such a hang up for people.

Heck, in KH3, all the Disney worlds meant literally nothing to the plot in the end and were just there because, well, Disney, lol.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

KH was created as a crossover of Disney and Final Fantasy. Some find that more important than others.

There's nothing odd about that. If they find it wrong to lack Disney, that's completely fair. A lot of franchises were built on something, and lacking that annoys them. Many evolve beyond the original intent and not all take that factor well. Perfectly reasonable opinion.

There's clearly a difference between "can" and "should". I'd actually prefer the Disney content myself, but I don't see it remotely likely regardless. Sora I can see happening, but I don't think he's too likely with Disney being stingy in general(and unlike SE, it's not about tons of IP holders).

 

[RetrogamerMax]

He Said "not to hold your breath" but that was more or less a Yes or No answer and was up to interpretation. Doomguy's Interview was WAY More In-depth into the Process of Bethesda asking Nintendo about it and saying that nothing serious came out of it, and this interview was Days after Byleth's interview so FP2 was already Finalized months ago (since the Broadcast was recorded in November)

Still they could be lying. When you're under a NDA, you can lie as long as you don't openly admit the truth.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I've been thinking about it high and low, and I think that people who think Ryu is the most likely KT rep might want to look at this article (forgive the fact that it's in French).

I'm curious to see how off the rails speculation would go if Kasumi actually got in over Ryu. Imagine; it's another, in the Smash fanbase's terms, "literal who" beating out one of the most speculated characters in the history franchise. The aftermath would be hard to imagine.

The interview was made with the director of modern Dead or alive games and he never worked on Ninja Gaiden, so it's obvious that he would want more his own work in Smash. He's not a higher up in the company so Nintendo wouldn't ask for his opinion if they wanted a general Koei Tecmo rep (they would probably talk to him only if they want a DoA rep).

Obviously, if I ask the Atelier Ryza team which character they would want in Smash they would probably go with Ryza. But Nintendo won't ask those guys for a character so their opinion don't matter that much and don't hurt Hayabusa chance. If a deal had to be made with Koei, they would talk with higher up. Also Sakurai might have already Ninja Gaiden in mind and make a plan to get him like he did with Hero and SE.

 

[7NATOR]

Again, where was this so-called other talk that was during when pass 2 itself was finalized? There's nothing to suggest another talk actually happened.

Nintendo clearly approached Wayforward to get the content. Reality is, it's on Nintendo first, not other companies. That's because they can talk about "how it'd be cool", but they really can't do much otherwise. Even in cases like Kojima who asked, it was actually Sakurai who approached him to get the character in before it could happen. Nintendo does not generally actually take suggestions like that. They initiate 3rd party and licensing talks. They do pay attention to trends and such and might approach someone due to hearing about it at best.

It's barely an inside talk and the timing doesn't even suggest Pass 2 was finalized either. Remember that we don't know when Pass 2 was finalized as is. It could've still been in talks well after January. Many, including myself, thought it was finalized by November 2019. That was never the case. So we still lack any actual real details that makes this interview as meaningful as it could be. There's missing information on our part.

So again, not disconfirmed, but not looking good. Once we get more information, we'll know more.

And note that licensing of any content is not "wildly different" at all. Nintendo wants the content, and has to license it. If they don't want it, suggestions don't help at all.

I'm not suggesting Another Talk happened, at least when it comes to Doomguy

If you mean with Vault Boy Mii Costume, Well First there's a good chance the Vault Boy costume was decided Very Early on before showing up in FP2, and even then, Discussing a Mii Costume with Bethesda Game Studios and Todd Howard is Different with Discussing with ID Software and I guess Todd again on Doomguy. I'm looking at this from Id Software and the Doom men perspective, in that it seems the only talk they had was that one awhile ago around E3 of 2019

I also don't necessarily think Nintendo has to be the First one to Approach. another Company can Approach and discussions start there, and whether it is successful or not Depends on the Situation. Regarding Kojima, remember that Kojima asked about Snake for Melee, not Brawl. Kojima I don't think would have known about Brawl's Development until he was asked by Sakurai if you want Snake to Appear in this New Smash game

With Shantae, it seems Matt Apprached first with the Pictures, judging by the Wording. Since Shantae is a Spirit, there's no need to Discuss ithe Details of Design or moveset since Shantae isn't a Costume or Character, but a PNG spirit that Matt himself sent. then again, I would assume Matt would get some money from the ordeal perhaps, but I don't know

Sakurai himself said the Pass was already decided in the Presentation. if there are more Talks, It's likely that it's about how Development is going (since Sakurai does talk with people on how the character is looking like and stuff.) Also from a Logistics standpoint, I don't think it's wise to still be Negotiating characters when the Pass is "Finalized". It's unknown what troubles could occur among the negotations. Look at what happened with Ash in MK11 and such.

I don't know the exact Details on what the NDA allows you to do, and I guess we aren't in Nintendo and Sakurai's shoes, So I won't Consider Doomguy Hard deconfirmed or anything. I will consider him Soft Deconfirm Personally because the wording of the interview still does not Imply good things about Playable Doom Guy, and Vault Boy showing up early also doesn't suggest Playable Doom guy

 

[Peeton]

Best ninja for smash:

Kat & Ana -wario ware characters that used to be an assist trophy and now are just spirits.

Impa - sheikah is ninja and we all know it

Ryu Hayabusa - Ninja Gaiden

Ninji - Honestly doesn’t have the moveset potential of pirahna plant as there haven’t been many ninji offshoots. Damn adorable though

Master Kohga - Breath of the Wild has a sequel and a spin off, the Yiga clan head is pretty neat, and could have a trailer where his love of bananas shows him a certain banana hoard.

Any ninja turtle - western non video game origins immediately disqualify, but their gaming history is totally radical. And Smash Up was one of the first non smash bros platform fighters to not suck.

Koga - We already have a pokemon ninja so we probably don’t need a pokemon trainer ninja

Saizo, Kaze. or anyone else from Fire Emblem Fates - only lords and avatars need apply it seems and we have enough of them.

Ninja Kirby - Not unless you’ve already drained every character out of Kirby Fighters 2.

Strider Hiryu - Once again non video game origin disqualifies, but a great gaming history and design certainly makes for a tempting pick.

Scorpion - Apparently only makes sense in the west. But it certainly makes a lot of sense in the west.

I wanna say Shinobu from No More Heroes is a ninja too, but I think she’s more of a samurai. She’s an assassin and has some quick ninja style moves, but her dad (I think?) “trained” Travis and he has more of a samurai style so in turn she does too. Her theme is even called season of the samurai or samurai season I think.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Like, I respect other people's opinions on that, but...I just don't see why the Disney thing is such a hang up for people.

Heck, in KH3, all the Disney worlds meant literally nothing to the plot in the end and were just there because, well, Disney, lol.

either they hate Sora so much that they use Disney as a gatekeeper to keep him from getting in Smash or they just hate Disney and don't want it near anything they like

 

[7NATOR]

Sora could technically join just with The OG Content of the Series, but you do lose some of the Magic that did, and still does make the Series, considering a Big selling Point of Kingdom Hearts is the Disney content

Now yes Disney hasn't been in the Plot as much as Earlier games, but the fact they still take up a Majority of Worlds in KH3 shows that it's still an Important part of the Franchise. I would much prefer if Sora got in with Donald, Goofy, and Mickey also represented, but I don't think it's Impossible for Sora to get in without Disney though. they could even play into the Canon and suggest Sora is taking a Nice Vacation from Disney right now, Fighting with Mario

With that Said, I don't think Sora is in Ultimate. He'd be perfect base Newcomer for Smash 6, cause I know people would buy it if Sora was a newcomer in that game and He wasn't in Ultimate

 

[Diddy Kong]

View attachment 288861

I updated the list so it's more accurate. I removed all the characters that are Fighters, assist trophies/pokeball summons or full Mii costumes. Characters who are spirits are left on the board because of Min Min. You can thank me later.

I pick:
Sora (5)
Decidueye (5)
Crash Bandicoot (4)
The lobster thing down in the bottom right corner (1)

Dixie Kong (3)
Paper Mario (3)
Impa (2)
Funky Kong (2)
Conker (2)
Hector (1)
Blaziken (1)
Slippy Toad (1)

 

[SKX31]

If I had a dollar for everytime someone said Sora without Disney content wouldn't represent the series I probably have enough money to buy a whole new game by now

Like, I respect other people's opinions on that, but...I just don't see why the Disney thing is such a hang up for people.

Heck, in KH3, all the Disney worlds meant literally nothing to the plot in the end and were just there because, well, Disney, lol.

To play Devil's Advocate: That viewpoint might matter if Disney's head honchos and / or lawyers believe that. Especially in the context of Mario being Smash's main draw.

Sora and the KH OC cast are for all intents and purposes owned by Disney, with S-E and Disney collabing on the KH games they want to make. If I'm a Disney lawyer, I'm likely looking at Smash and seeing two / three scenarios: A) "Sora + Heartless only", B) "Sora + KH OCs", C) "Sora + the entire main cast" - which includes Mickey, Donald and Goofy since they're at least regulars in the main series. While they're their KH selves, they're still recognizably Mickey, Donald and Goofy.

And Disney's lawyers know one thing: If "Mario X Mickey" happens somehow, it would be earth-shattering - even if it's just Mickey as an NPC. Especially to someone like Miyamoto, who wants Mario to become the next Mickey Mouse. And as much as A) and B) would satisfy KH fans... C) would likely have casuals' eyes turned to Smash en masse. The mere imagine of an official "Mario X Mickey" would break Twitter. That's what separates Smash from other crossovers KH has been a part of - Mario headlines Smash.

And that's what I believe might be a major issue here. Sure, there is the scenario where Disney is fine with just "Sora + KH OCs" or "Sora + Heartless", but Disney has not much of a reason to prefer those over C). Not when they own Sora's and the KH OCs rights anyhow. Yes they could accept a more limited proposal of say "Sora + KH OCs", but they likewise could press for Mickey's inclusion as an NPC and press additionally for a "Mario X Mickey" game to follow up.

On the other side of the aisle, we know that Nintendo's a relatively frugal company. They might not be really willing to "just" incorporate Mickey as an NPC, or they might not be fully comfortable with a "Mario X Mickey" game, even if the idea might be salivating to some of Nintendo's execs like Miyamnoto.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

KH was created as a crossover of Disney and Final Fantasy. Some find that more important than others.

There's nothing odd about that. If they find it wrong to lack Disney, that's completely fair. A lot of franchises were built on something, and lacking that annoys them. Many evolve beyond the original intent and not all take that factor well. Perfectly reasonable opinion.

There's clearly a difference between "can" and "should". I'd actually prefer the Disney content myself, but I don't see it remotely likely regardless. Sora I can see happening, but I don't think he's too likely with Disney being stingy in general(and unlike SE, it's not about tons of IP holders).

I honestly see all the FF and disney stuff to be useless. KH can stand on its own feety without them

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Sora would be a fine addition to Smash that would excite countless people and Disney content or not, it feels like a series with enough depth that Sakurai and company could give it a faithful representation even with certain elements excised.

I do have to admit though as a non-fan from the outside looking in, I always I find myself wishing there was a pure Disney game with the scope and budget of KH where you could just play as just Mickey, Donald, and Goofy specifically. I understand that Sora's story and associated lore are the major draw to a lot of people, but as someone who grew up on various Disney plaformers, its hard to not have an instinctual reaction of "man if they'd ditch the kid, I'd be all over this series."

I also understand that I'm likely the minority with that view.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm sure this has been asked here before, but I wanted to hear some opinions. Think of your favorite franchise already represented in Smash. Are you satisfied with how much representation it has?

I still can't get over how much content there is for Mother fans like me. I mean, two characters, a bunch of stages and music, numerous assist trophies, items, and spirits. And for a series that merely consists of cult classics? It's still amazing to see. I'm glad Ultimate was able to bring everything together, and that Shigesato Itoi's legacy in the gaming world lives on...

My favourite franchise is Donkey Kong Country. With the addition of K.Rool, it's now at least acceptable. It's now comparable to the Melee rosters of the franchises of Nintendo which are higher in popularity / importance, as Mario, Pokémon and Zelda. Having the bare minimum cast of arguably the most iconic game of the franchise ; the original Donkey Kong Country. It took us way too long to get here honestly...

 

[TwiceEXE]

KH was created as a crossover of Disney and Final Fantasy. Some find that more important than others.

There's nothing odd about that. If they find it wrong to lack Disney, that's completely fair. A lot of franchises were built on something, and lacking that annoys them. Many evolve beyond the original intent and not all take that factor well. Perfectly reasonable opinion.

There's clearly a difference between "can" and "should". I'd actually prefer the Disney content myself, but I don't see it remotely likely regardless. Sora I can see happening, but I don't think he's too likely with Disney being stingy in general(and unlike SE, it's not about tons of IP holders).

Sure, it's all opinions. Some people might think that Doom and Mortal Kombat would be wrong to lack gore. But obviously if they ever got into Smash they wouldn't have gore. It's the exact same with Sora.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I’m a little late but the true biggest song omission is THIS:

Don’t even try to deny it

actually I lied here’s another

 

[7NATOR]

To play Devil's Advocate: That viewpoint might matter if Disney's head honchos and / or lawyers believe that. Especially in the context of Mario being Smash's main draw.

Sora and the KH OC cast are for all intents and purposes owned by Disney, with S-E and Disney collabing on the KH games they want to make. If I'm a Disney lawyer, I'm likely looking at Smash and seeing two / three scenarios: A) "Sora + Heartless only", B) "Sora + KH OCs", C) "Sora + the entire main cast" - which includes Mickey, Donald and Goofy since they're at least regulars in the main series. While they're their KH selves, they're still recognizably Mickey, Donald and Goofy.

And Disney's lawyers know one thing: If "Mario X Mickey" happens somehow, it would be earth-shattering - even if it's just Mickey as an NPC. Especially to someone like Miyamoto, who wants Mario to become the next Mickey Mouse. And as much as A) and B) would satisfy KH fans... C) would likely have casuals' eyes turned to Smash en masse. The mere imagine of an official "Mario X Mickey" would break Twitter. That's what separates Smash from other crossovers KH has been a part of - Mario headlines Smash.

And that's what I believe might be a major issue here. Sure, there is the scenario where Disney is fine with just "Sora + KH OCs" or "Sora + Heartless", but Disney has not much of a reason to prefer those over C). Not when they own Sora's and the KH OCs rights anyhow. Yes they could accept a more limited proposal of say "Sora + KH OCs", but they likewise could press for Mickey's inclusion as an NPC and press additionally for a "Mario X Mickey" game to follow up.

On the other side of the aisle, we know that Nintendo's a relatively frugal company. They might not be really willing to "just" incorporate Mickey as an NPC, or they might not be fully comfortable with a "Mario X Mickey" game, even if the idea might be salivating to some of Nintendo's execs like Miyamnoto.

You know when you word it like that, it could give more Validity to the "Sora and Mickey Package" that that one rumor was talking about, not to say it's real, but...

I always did wonder that if you were in a Position to get Sora, you could also Get Mickey Mouse, and even Technically, you are also in a Position to get Marvel and Star Wars characters, and I know people would be Excited if we Got Spider Man, Iron Man, Wolverine, Hulk, Thanos, Darth Vader, and characters like that. I think with Marvel and Star Wars though there would be more discussions that just Mickey

Because for all intents and Purposes, Mickey would be the Biggest deal in Smash. It's Argueable that Mickey is a bigger deal than Mario, Pikachu, Sonic, Pac-Man, and other Iconic characters, and Comparing that to Sora is just not Fair at all. I also see Disney trying to push Mickey off on them as Well over Sora. I feel bad for Sora in that regard.

I think the best Situation for Sora honestly is if a Game was built around Smash Bros X Disney, kind of like How people suggest Smash Bros X Jump Anime when it comes to Goku, Naruto, Luffy in Smash. I Imagine a game like Smash Bros X Disney would sell too as well.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Anyway, what did I miss? Just woke up and don’t feel like browsing thru pages

 

[7NATOR]

Anyway, what did I miss? Just woke up and don’t feel like browsing thru pages

-Stuff about what the DOA in Smash interview means for Ryu Hayabusa
-Whether Doomguy is actually deconfirmed or Not
-Stuff about Sora, and whether he needs Disney content or not, and whether Disney is more willing to Push Mickey if anything

 

[cashregister9]

Quick Question:
How Come when Bethesda Says Doomguy is not in it means they are lying?

How Come when Gust says Ryza is not in it means they are telling the truth?

You're telling me Smash fans might have a bias :o

 

[Wunderwaft]

To expand on Scoliosis Jones point about some parts of Volume 2 being planned earlier than we thought, I watched the FP2 announcement again and found an interesting quote by Sakurai.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

As I stated we will continue to release more DLC fighters down the line. I had thought that one or two might suffice.

Perhaps this quote could have referred to Steve and another fighter whose negotiations was leaked early on (perhaps Hayabusa?). It's not definitive but it does present an interesting argument to be made that some characters from FP2 already were negotiated to be sold after FP1 but then Nintendo decided to release them in a full on 6 pack fighters pass instead.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

-Stuff about what the DOA in Smash interview means for Ryu Hayabusa
-Whether Doomguy is actually deconfirmed or Not
-Stuff about Sora, and whether he needs Disney content or not, and whether Disney is more willing to Push Mickey if anything

Which DOA in smash interview? Quote if you want cuz again i don’t feel like back reading

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So which is it? Is Doom Slayer deconfirmed or not? Why you guys so confusing?

 

[TwiceEXE]

Perhaps this quote could have referred to Steve and another fighter whose negotiations was leaked early on (perhaps Hayabusa?). It's not definitive but it does present an interesting argument to be made that some characters from FP2 already were negotiated to be sold after FP1 but then Nintendo decided to release them in a full on 6 pack fighters pass instead.

Given that work on Min Min would have started last August, I wonder if she is one of the characters planned early on? It would make sense as they would need time to come with hypothetical movesets and stages before beginning coding and asset creation.