Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[BlondeLombax]

Sakurai:
Steve: 1
Ken: 1
Banjo: 5
incineroar: 4
Isabelle: 3
O tto, I still have one point left, who should I use it on guys?

I'll make it even with 3 in my signature, and one out of it;
Shantae, Shadow, Crash, and Spyro.

 

[Idon]

I spend all 15 of my points to get someone to make a better list.

 

[Shroob]

I spend all 15 of my points to get someone to make a better list.
View attachment 288848

Yeah, considering a handful of those are now just confirmed/Mii costume'd, **** really needs to be updated lol.

 

[extremeturkey]

1 Karate joe/rhythm heaven
1 Birdo
2 Impa
5 Isaac
4 Skull Kid

Back when that image was made, I also supported Steve, Springman, and Isabelle.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Delete this.

 

[Ivander]

I find it kind of weird that Lloyd, Luke, and Yuri on that cake but for Legendia they go for just a supporting character (or atleast I believe that's a Legendia supporting character)

Sort of. The game's story sections are stories of the player characters. Basically, it starts with the main character, then it focuses on another character, than another, etc. Kinda like how Final Fantasy 6 focused on Terra first, than Locke and Sabin, than Terra again, than the rest of the cast, than Terra again and than Celes, and than if the player finds her, than Terra again, but in Legendia's case, it's for every player character.

And yeah, Chloe is often more popular than Senel in Tales popularity poll, although Senel is popular enough to get picked over her(and I believe he is still the 2nd most popular Legendia character), as he is popular for being a Tales main character that doesn't use a sword, and the first Tales main character to not to use a sword. When two of their first crossovers came out, Tales of the World and Tales of VS., Senel was the Legendia pick despite Chloe being more popular than him.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

I mean, it's a Japanese game, developed largely by Japanese developers, so honestly it's not hard to see why so many people think that a character at the very least has to have some kind of presence in Japan to really be considered. Whether or not that's actually true is completely up in the air, seeing as Banjo was relatively popular in Japan, and Minecraft is Minecraft. The only way that ""rule"" is blown apart is if say, somebody like Doomguy or Chief gets in. As for Lara, I genuinely have zero clue how she's viewed in Japan - but I have to imagine that she's at least known/remembered as a relatively popular PS1 era character.

Hard-core gamers and Smash speculators in Japan at least recognize the existence of Lara Croft and her games.
But most people be like, "Tomb Raider... huh. That's the... movie right? The one you go into pyramids I guess? I kind of remember the scenes people were eaten by a swarm of creepy bugs."

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Are there any characters you can think of that if you directly ripped them from the game they come from and then slapped that into Smash Bros, they would work pretty well and make you feel like you're playing that game inside Smash Bros?

Let's say if you take Crash Bandicoot from the N. Sane trilogy (Specifically the Crash in Warped), ripped him straight out from the N. Sane trilogy and put him in Smash Bros, would you think he'd work as a Smash Bros character just from that? If not, Could you imagine remapping the moves he does in the N. Sane trilogy and putting them all onto his normal attacks and special moves like the Crash Spin, Slide Kick, Death Tornado Spin, Super Charged Body Slam and the Fruit Bazooka? I know he wouldn't have all of the moves to fill in every attack a Smash Bros character would require but would it be a good start?

 

[Speed Weed]

So with one of the slots already confirmed to be Pepsiman, what other characters are you guys hoping to see??

I want the California Raisins!

he's coming

 

[SpectreJordan]

I am genuinely curious, does anyone know what game that character's from?

Not from a game:

Y’all make sure to keep an eye out for things that might be considered bait, don’t respond to it, just report it.

On another subject, a while back I saw that someone said that they considered Sora and Geno both more likely than Lara Croft. Why? I think people overestimate the Smash Fandoms echo chamber. If a globally known character like Lara is up for grabs with the presence that she has, a presence that is just as present in films why would they pass that up? So that begs the question, is Geno and Sora really more likely than Lara?

It’s a tricky situation. Geno has the massive Smash fanbase support much like Banjo. Sora has massive Smash fanbase support, is super popular in Japan & is from a popular/active series. So they definitely have their merits.

I’d probably put Lara on their level though. How iconic she is could definitely be a draw for Nintendo since it could attract the attention of casual gamers. Square might also want to try & push the series through Smash. She’s my sleeper pick for next E3’s character in the case that Crash, Monster Hunter & Master Chief don’t happen.

I think the weirdest thing about Tomb Raider is that despite how iconic it is & how well it always sells, I don’t really see a hardcore fanbase for it. I know people enjoy the series(myself included), but I rarely see people gush about it. Do hardcore Tomb Raider fans just to keep to theirselves or something? I definitely think this plays into how she’s not as requested for Smash as other huge characters.

That's the thing - being less talked about than Dante, Crash or Chief doesn't really mean that she isn't talked about at all.

It gets to the point where I'm legit starting to think I've seen this thread mention her more this month alone than anything SNK prior to copyright leak. And I say this as one of the few who did the latter.

Keep in mind, none of this is about Lara's chances per se, it's just kinda baffling to me that she's mentioned quite a bit here and is still called "slept on".

...you know what, maybe this sleeping stuff is a sign I should stop stalling and go to bed lol.

I wasn’t as active back then, but I remember one SNK conversation. Everyone picked Nakoruru over Terry which really confused me lmao

 

[Shroob]

Not from a game:

It’s a tricky situation. Geno has the massive Smash fanbase support much like Banjo. Sora has massive Smash fanbase support, is super popular in Japan & is from a popular/active series. So they definitely have their merits.

I’d probably put Lara on their level though. How iconic she is could definitely be a draw for Nintendo since it could attract the attention of casual gamers. Square might also want to try & push the series through Smash. She’s my sleeper pick for next E3’s character in the case that Crash, Monster Hunter & Master Chief don’t happen.

I think the weirdest thing about Tomb Raider is that despite how iconic it is & how well it always sells, I don’t really see a hardcore fanbase for it. I know people enjoy the series(myself included), but I rarely see people gush about it. Do hardcore Tomb Raider fans just to keep to theirselves or something? I definitely think this plays into how she’s not as requested for Smash as other huge characters.



I wasn’t as active back then, but I remember one SNK conversation. Everyone picked Nakoruru over Terry which really confused me lmao

That was because of a single leak that was popular at the time.


As someone who actually knew a decent chunk of SNK ****, I couldn't help but laugh at how absurd that was, albeit, #birdgang was fun.

 

[I.D.]

I know some people here like Maximilian Dood so here's 40 minutes of him speculating about the 4 characters left.

He's got a few interesting insights.

 

[Lamperouge]

I know some people here like Maximilian Dood so here's 40 minutes of him speculating about the 4 characters left.

He's got a few interesting insights.

Don't have time to sit there for 40 minutes.

Who does he mention?

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I wasn’t as active back then, but I remember one SNK conversation. Everyone picked Nakoruru over Terry which really confused me lmao

I thought that it could've been Nakoruru, mostly because in light of the SNK copyright leak, I looked at all the previous times that SNK characters made guest appearances in other fighting games. Almost all of them had different characters in each game (with the possible exception of Mai Shiranui in both Dead or Alive 5 and 6, though in that case it was an SNK character returning from a previous game, and Dead or Alive 6 also brought in a new SNK character anyway), so I figured that Smash Ultimate's SNK character would've been someone like Nakoruru, Kyo, or a Metal Slug character who didn't guest-feature in a previous fighting game.

 

[I.D.]

Don't have time to sit there for 40 minutes.

Who does he mention?

Super abridged version:
Thinks Geno and Dante are pipe dreams.
Is confident Sora isn't happening.
Thinks Crash has a very slim chance due to Activision (apparently he knows some horror stories from PASBR's development)
Thinks Lara Croft and Doomguy are possible.
Thinks Monster Hunter is the most likely character.
Thinks there's one more character from Nintendo in the pass.
Wishes for Nintendo to keep updating Ultimate instead of making a disappointing sequel.

 

[Nemuresu]

Don't have time to sit there for 40 minutes.

Who does he mention?

Some notes I've taken so far:
*Still sees Sub-Zero as possible (probably a snark since he later on mentions MK's ban in Japan)
*Finds Ryu Hayabusa as a very likely character
*Viewtiful Joe not possible
*Still finds Dante a pipe dream
*Says that a Dark Souls character should be in Soul Calibur and not in Smash because the former is more fitting.
*Says that if another Microsoft character would happen, it'd be Ori
*Finds Geno a pipe dream
*Goes rather deep in Sora, saying he can't happen not just because negotiations, but also because he thinks Sakurai's desire to make characters as true to their source game as possible will cause conflict with Sora due to no Disney characters. Says he'll give people tons of subs if Sora makes it into Smash
*Thinks Tifa would make more sense in Tekken
*Says another Nintendo character may happen (mentions Pokémon especifically)
*Says Kiryu and Majima would make more sense in Virtua Fighter
*Finds Monster Hunter likely
*Mentions that Activision characters like Crash aren't possible because of some stuff involving what happened to Playstation-All Stars
*Says Chrono can't happen because of Toriyama and licensing nightmares
*Thinks Rabbids aren't possible
*Thinks Lara Croft is possible
*Doomguy the same
*Doesn't like the idea of bringing Frank West in Smash
*Thinks Sephiroth isn't likely
*He'd like to see Wolverine in Smash
*Says Spider-Man would make more sense
*Wonders how many more characters will be guests in this pass because of last season

 

[blackghost]

I don’t really have a horse in this race though. I don’t have any experience with Tales (I do want to play some of them though) & Namco is a company I’m not too familiar with outside of Pac-Man & Tekken. Lloyd & Yuri both seem cool to me.

if you want to play tales game, Tales of Vesperia has a complete edition out on xbox 1 and ps4. both are cheap on amazon.

to play Lloyd's game you will need an ability to play a Gamecube game. and Lloyd isnt the focus in the second game he is in.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What a trash list. I had to settle for Echoes just to spend 15 points...

Shantae: 4
Shadow: 4
Heihachi: 3
Captain Toad: 2
Impa: 2

Wishes for Nintendo to keep updating Ultimate instead of making a disappointing sequel.

Same.

*Says Chrono can't happen because of Toriyama and licensing nightmares

...does he know about Hero?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Edit: Doublepost

 

[Dinoman96]

Saying Nintendo couldn't get Crash in Smash because PSABR couldn't is kinda like saying that Disney couldn't buy out Marvel because Vídeo Brinquedo couldn't.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Max does make a good point about Crash that I haven't thought about hard. Activision are notoriously hard to work with. Now granted PSABR wasn't the most high budget game developed by Sony, they managed to negotiate for some third parties under weird circumstances (promoting Raiden instead of Snake and Donte instead of Dante) but it really stuck with me how when asked about Crash they said this:

@TRILLmaticc @AtviAssist @SethKillian 100% not possible

— Santa Monica Studio – God of War Ragnarök (@SonySantaMonica) July 26, 2013

If the budget was higher could Sony have managed to acquire Crash and Spyro? Maybe. But I think it goes to show Activision can be hard to work with and it's very possible they could charge a lot for Crash if Nintendo approaches them.

 

[I.D.]

Saying Nintendo couldn't get Crash in Smash because PSABR couldn't is kinda like saying that Disney couldn't buy out Marvel because Vídeo Brinquedo couldn't.

He never specified it was about money.

 

[TwiceEXE]

Saying Nintendo couldn't get Crash in Smash because PSABR couldn't is kinda like saying that Disney couldn't buy out Marvel because Vídeo Brinquedo couldn't.

It isn't about the buyer, it's about the seller in this case. Crash joining Smash would SHOCK me.

 

[7NATOR]

Max does make a good point about Crash that I haven't thought about hard. Activision are notoriously hard to work with. Now granted PSABR wasn't the most high budget game developed by Sony, they managed to negotiate for some third parties under weird circumstances (promoting Raiden instead of Snake and Donte instead of Dante) but it really stuck with me how when asked about Crash they said this:

@TRILLmaticc @AtviAssist @SethKillian 100% not possible

— Santa Monica Studio – God of War Ragnarök (@SonySantaMonica) July 26, 2013

If the budget was higher could Sony have managed to acquire Crash and Pyro? Maybe. But I think it goes to show Activision can be hard to work with and it's very possible they could charge a lot for Crash if Nintendo approaches them.

I didn't watch the video yet. But yeah the Main thing holding Crash back is how Willing Activision is willing to Work with Nintendo on this one, Like even if Activision is down for Crash in Smash (which I think they are), They might still want too much of a Pay cut that Nintendo Might Decline. they could also be Very Restrictive when it comes to How Crash is Presented.

I also remember that I believe with a Recent Naughty Dog Game, they even had trouble getting Activision to budge on allowing a Crash demo in one of their games, and they Made the OG Trilogy.

There's also the fact that Around PSASBR, Crash was actually deadish and his Franchise was in Hiatus, and if it's being called 100% not happening here when Crash was dead, that's not good sign. Crash is now Alive as all ever by the time he'd be Considered for FP2, so that could throw wrench into things even more

 

[Wunderwaft]

I I also remember that I believe with a Recent Naughty Dog Game, they even had trouble getting Activision to budge on allowing a Crash demo in one of their games, and they Made the OG Trilogy.

Do you mean this in regards to Uncharted 4?

GamesBeat: That’s lucky. Crash Bandicoot I’m sure was easier.


Straley: No! Same thing, just pure luck of the draw. The right people and the right timing.


Druckmann: Initially we got a no. We were working on a different old-school game of our own. Crash is kind of our own, but—then, somehow, negotiations went on up high and we got the yes.

source

 

[Faso115]

Hmm interesting claims about Crash but remember those two situations were pre-revival. I'm not really sure Activision at the time would budge on an IP which was dead on the water at the time

 

[SKX31]

Are there any characters you can think of that if you directly ripped them from the game they come from and then slapped that into Smash Bros, they would work pretty well and make you feel like you're playing that game inside Smash Bros?

Let's say if you take Crash Bandicoot from the N. Sane trilogy (Specifically the Crash in Warped), ripped him straight out from the N. Sane trilogy and put him in Smash Bros, would you think he'd work as a Smash Bros character just from that? If not, Could you imagine remapping the moves he does in the N. Sane trilogy and putting them all onto his normal attacks and special moves like the Crash Spin, Slide Kick, Death Tornado Spin, Super Charged Body Slam and the Fruit Bazooka? I know he wouldn't have all of the moves to fill in every attack a Smash Bros character would require but would it be a good start?

That might actually be a good start, even if the normal Spin and and Death Tornado risks running into a similar problem as (too many ball moves) and thus might be difficult to tell apart. Maybe one solution is to have the Spin transition to the Death Tornado after a little while. Slide Kick's easily a D-tilt a la Cloud / Joker (used to trip up opponent and send them away) and the Bazooka can be mapped to Side or Down B (Presuming Spin is Neutral B). The Body Slam might be a down air, but I'm tired of stall n' falls (I find it telling that those who benefit the most from them are zoners, Greninja - who can bounce off his down-air, and likely Steve) so making the Slam different in some way. Bigger shockwave than Bowser's at the expense of raw power? Crash would have a wider hurtbox than most stall n' falls (unless he completely pancakes), so that's why I'm thinking that.

He'd lack an Up-B (which might not be 100 % neccessary given how much height Crash typically gets, but might be worth considering) and he would likely need a grab. He'd also likely need one or a couple anti-air options (either Up Tilt or Up Smash tends to fill this niche, although Nair and U-Air can do the job too). Crash would likely have good, fast attacks out of shield, but also struggle a bit with endlag.

His stats would most likely be fine: he's got good air speed and acceleration already - just like how Crash's jumps are quick and responsive - but he'd most likely be a fast-faller, thus making him susceptible to combos (floaty characters have a similiar but unrelated problem in that they're vurnerable to juggling - being kept constantly in the air - mentioning this since if Crash was floaty he'd run into this.). His run would be much more comittal even if he can turn on a dime, meaning that for Crash it'd be important to know when to go in and when to kick back.

Max does make a good point about Crash that I haven't thought about hard. Activision are notoriously hard to work with. Now granted PSABR wasn't the most high budget game developed by Sony, they managed to negotiate for some third parties under weird circumstances (promoting Raiden instead of Snake and Donte instead of Dante) but it really stuck with me how when asked about Crash they said this:

If the budget was higher could Sony have managed to acquire Crash and Pyro? Maybe. But I think it goes to show Activision can be hard to work with and it's very possible they could charge a lot for Crash if Nintendo approaches them.

Maybe? It's difficult to say how much A-B would ask for. That said:

Activision-Blizzard really wants to go their own path so to speak, at least once Kotick and co. took over. I personally find it possible (although I'm not sure how likely this is) that A-B - especially the Activision side - tries to manage goodwill, frustration, anger and forgiveness amongst fans of its franchises.

Raycevick, a FPS youtuber who's very much into CoD and Battlefield, discusses Activision-Blizzard's methods and presents exactly that argument in this video. While he's speculating (and fully admits to that), he also notes that A-B is infamous for long term plans:

I do find some paralles in how Crash 4 advertised "No Microtransactions" some years after the CTR debacle, although it could just be a reaction from the Activision side of things. Still, for Activision to be directly interested in "Crash for Smash" I kinda feel that Activision would need to see Crash's inclusion as fitting a long term goal.

Which doesn't make things easier for Sakurai / Nintendo, that's for sure.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

He'd lack an Up-B (which might not be 100 % neccessary given how much height Crash typically gets, but might be worth considering)

Jet packs from Crash 2.

There, an Up B.

 

[7NATOR]

Do you mean this in regards to Uncharted 4?



source

Yeah that, but honestly reading that, it seemed not as bad as I thought it was. I'm also suprised Disney also just allowed the Reference in there as well

Hmm interesting claims about Crash but remember those two situations were pre-revival. I'm not really sure Activision at the time would budge on an IP which was dead on the water at the time

See I guess that's also something. I guess the way I saw it was that Getting Post-Revival Crash would be more expensive these days, than Getting Pre-Revival Crash back then.

Though I guess it could be seen that if Crash was dead, that maybe they wanted to Squeeze more money out of People so that Crash could make some form of Money. After all while it could be Advertising, it's not Activison that's getting Majority of money. I guess that Now Crash is Alive though, the Games with him are Selling, So he's making Money, meaning not as much need to Squeeze money out of people. Adding More Advertisement on Crash would just increase his Appeal which could be better Long term, while I guess back then since Activison wasn't doing much with him there was no need

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Huh, neat. I don't know much about the F-Zero anime, so that's news to me as well.

I'm watching the video and so far he's chosen all the same characters for the Mario characters as me except Toadette so I'm probably not going to be in for a surprise.

It’s exclusive to the anime, which in itself is kind of a retcon for various reasons...

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Compared to something low-budget like PSASBR, Smash is big. Not even comparable and a bad one.

Also if anyone from Mortal Kombat is gonna get in it'll be Scorpion. "Hurr durr! Too violent!" despite ignoring

 

[Dinoman96]

Mortal Kombat's problem isn't necessarily just the violence (though personally I think MK loses some of its appeal without the gore aspect, tbh). It's just the fact that the series has been a total non-factor in Japan lol, especially with its recent games not even being allowed to come out there.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Mortal Kombat's problem isn't necessarily just the violence (though personally I think MK loses some of its appeal without the gore aspect, tbh). It's just the fact that the series has been a total non-factor in Japan lol, especially with its recent games not even being allowed to come out there.

I mean the fact he mentioned Sub-Zero but not Scorpion kinda made me think that given many would think Sub-Zero is less violent in terms of moveset and the fact Injustice proves violent characters can work for Smash.

 

[Lionfranky]

(Of course, this trend is starting to change in more recent years. Putting Minecraft aside, games like Fortnite are also very popular in Japan - as very much annoyed I would be with... Jonesy, for example, the only real argument you can make against him that's not some variation "cringe" or "he's not really talked about that much" or "zero leaks" is that he's too recent or something like that. You cannot convince me that an army of 10 yr olds will not come descending on Jonesy to default dance on their friends in Smash.)

Do you have number to back up on Fortnite in Japan? I'm just curious.

 

[KillerCage]

It’s exclusive to the anime, which in itself is kind of a retcon for various reasons...

Didn't the anime get two games on the GBA?

 

[Nemuresu]

I mean the fact he mentioned Sub-Zero but not Scorpion kinda made me think that given many would think Sub-Zero is less violent in terms of moveset and the fact Injustice proves violent characters can work for Smash.

Technically speaking, we've got three different MK characters with toned-down movesets in Injustice: Scorpion, Sub-Zero and Raiden, so if one based them off of those games, they'd all be similar (though I think Scorp would need a new Final Smash, but otherwise they're all pretty okay).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Also if anyone from Mortal Kombat is gonna get in it'll be Scorpion. "Hurr durr! Too violent!" despite ignoring

Sub-Zero could bring some really cool mechanics though. Pun is 110% intended.

(though I think Scorp would need a new Final Smash, but otherwise they're all pretty okay).

One of his klassics from the very first game is actually tame enough to work.

He's probably the only MK character who can get away with having a Fatality as a Final Smash, actually.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Sub-Zero could bring some really cool mechanics though. Pun is 110% intended.

That I definitely don't deny. The only chance I see Sub-Zero happening is at the chance he gets revealed alongside Scorpion (Not an Echo).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That I definitely don't deny. The only chance I see Sub-Zero happening is at the chance he gets revealed alongside Scorpion granted not as an echo.

I wouldn't doubt Sub-Zero.

Yes, Scorpion is the poster boy and Ed Boon has gone on record to say that he's his favorite, but I doubt they'd be picky over which of the two ninja gets in Smash since they're both iconic to the franchise and the fighting genre as a whole.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I still think Scorpion would be the one chosen.