Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[LiveStudioAudience]

So with one of the slots already confirmed to be Pepsiman, what other characters are you guys hoping to see??

I want the California Raisins!

I ain't easy...

Spoiler

bein' cheesy.

 

[SKX31]

I agree. I prefer it this way, and it makes the wait seem less. I don't know why they haven't been releasing trailers early like they used to. I understand covid slows things down, of course. Just don't see why it would make them unable to get the trailers out a month or so ahead of time. If they think it's a better marketing strategy, I can't fathom why. I especially like when we see little to nothing of the actual moveset. Makes it fun to wonder how they'll play for a while.

If I had to guess why, it might honestly be due to the pandemic and the stay at home orders. It's comparable to the games only being unveiled when they're close to gold, Nintendo's shifted to revealing the Smash characters when they're sure they're ready.

I want Lloyd or Yuri because we don't have a swordie who is all that combo-centric yet, and that would be a really fun playstyle for me. Is it a weird and selfish reason to want them? Yeah, but neither are most wanteds of mine anyway, though I do like em.

Well, kinda counts right? Although it takes someone who learns him hardcore in order to chain Fire Arrow -> Fire Arrow -> Aerial - > Fastfall -> Some other nonsense.

I had a 7th grader say he was going to dress up as Pepsiman for Halloween.

He’s in.
View attachment 288811

Bonus points if Pepsiman's Smash trailer ends with "Pepsi for TV Game."

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I support Agumon far more than Lloyd Irving, but this is a mess. Calling any addition "silly" is just ridiculous to begin with. That's basically just trying to get a rise out of people. There's a point when to let it go. You aren't interested? Okay. That's fine. But you don't need to create turmoil just to basically make people annoyed. It's clear people are sick of it too, since there's been literally zero actual reasons why Lloyd Irving shouldn't be chosen beyond "Yuri is a good contender" at this point.

On the other hand, there's a thing where people don't think he's that likely, a very different scenario. Though frankly, I dunno if I'd call him or Agumon in a better position. Especially when you also have Soul Calibur(Nightmare more likely, but I can't say that for sure after we got Min Min), Dark Souls(at least three choices, but Chosen Undead feels most likely, imo) alone. And that's literally altogether 4 notable franchises. Bandai-Namco has a ton of them. If they get another character, Nintendo has a lot of choices. There's more active ones, I'm sure, but I can't remember every franchise they have.

 

[StrangeKitten]

So with one of the slots already confirmed to be Pepsiman, what other characters are you guys hoping to see??

I want the California Raisins!

General Mills is Hosting a Direct on the 15th. Based on this teaser, it's clear that Count Chocula is a lock for CP8

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

So with one of the slots already confirmed to be Pepsiman, what other characters are you guys hoping to see??

I want the California Raisins!

Behold, the true Capcom rep

 

[pupNapoleon]

I support Agumon far more than Lloyd Irving, but this is a mess. Calling any addition "silly" is just ridiculous to begin with. That's basically just trying to get a rise out of people. There's a point when to let it go. You aren't interested? Okay. That's fine. But you don't need to create turmoil just to basically make people annoyed. It's clear people are sick of it too, since there's been literally zero actual reasons why Lloyd Irving shouldn't be chosen beyond "Yuri is a good contender" at this point.

On the other hand, there's a thing where people don't think he's that likely, a very different scenario. Though frankly, I dunno if I'd call him or Agumon in a better position. Especially when you also have Soul Calibur(Nightmare more likely, but I can't say that for sure after we got Min Min), Dark Souls(at least three choices, but Chosen Undead feels most likely, imo) alone. And that's literally altogether 4 notable franchises. Bandai-Namco has a ton of them. If they get another character, Nintendo has a lot of choices. There's more active ones, I'm sure, but I can't remember every franchise they have.

I messaged you personally to ask what you were trying to communicate, over a half hour ago. Please do not tell me 'I'm' the one trying to get a rise out of people,' when you insisted on posting publicly rather than responding to a sincere message asking for your clarity. If you didnt want 'a rise out of people,' youd have been a human being and responded to my personal message a half hour ago, rather than pretending you had moral high ground in a public arena.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Why is it that you can't provide a single answer and yet I'm being "needlessly argumentative?" Why doesnt a single person just stop being evasive and answer the goddamn question? This thread is to discuss newcomers, and not one supporter of Lloyd seems to be able to offer a shred of evidence as to why he been any support, for this 'highly requested character,' who is so popular he outranks popularity polls. Why is this question such a difficult one for Lloyd supporters? I've never seen this with a requested character. I've read a dozen posts saying 'he's popular so he should be in' and not given any reason at all. I truly don't understand this brainwashing.

For someone who claims to be so open-minded and willing to learn about the character, you've constantly ignored every fact and argument thrown your way and stubbornly refused to do anything that would improve your understanding of the character. I think you're just looking to confirm your preferences through bull**** "objective" means and feel superior about everyone else.

But hey, I'm open to arguments on the contrary.

 

[MooMew64]

Just gonna say that as much as I love Yuri Lowell, I would not mind Lloyd at all.

Tales content is Tales content, and man I want Tales content in Smash so bad. I think Yuri and Lloyd both are great options and I'd be hype for either one of them, but I'll also be honest and say I'd be more hyped for Yuri, lol.

 

[7NATOR]

Actually On Lloyd, Would Lloyd be the First character ever Since Gill from Street Fighter to have Different Properties to his Attacks depending on what side he's on?

 

[pupNapoleon]

For someone who claims to be so open-minded and willing to learn about the character, you've constantly ignored every fact and argument thrown your way and stubbornly refused to do anything that would improve your understanding of the character. I think you're just looking to confirm your preferences through bull**** "objective" means and feel superior about everyone else.

But hey, I'm open to arguments on the contrary.

Funny how there isn't a single argument here, which is all of the responses I've read other than three. I'm personally aware that I won't like every character, and yet all but those three responses state is that I'm taking it personally.... rather than offering a cent of merit to Lloyd or Tales'. I'm tempted to go back and quote all of these posts, because they honestly say, well, nothing of value.

Personal taste? Got it. Dualing swords and battle mechanics? Got it. "I just don't want Lloyd?" Nah, that's irrelevant. My tastes aren't important to Smash, I'm not in some parallel world. Though I'd like to be in a world where I chose the characters...

 

[Idon]

Actually On Lloyd, Would Lloyd be the First character ever Since Gill from Street Fighter to have Different Properties to his Attacks depending on what side he's on?

In SF3, Gill's effects were purely aesthetic. In SFV, using fire or ice mattered, but Gill wasn't mirrored so it would be the same effect no matter which side he hit you from. I imagine, the latter will hold true for a hypothetical Lloyd as well.

 

[Strife]

I want Lloyd or Yuri because we don't have a swordie who is all that combo-centric yet, and that would be a really fun playstyle for me. Is it a weird and selfish reason to want them? Yeah, but neither are most wanteds of mine anyway, though I do like em.

Chrom is very combo centric. I don't want Lloyd because visually and thematically I find him to be boring

 

[GoodGrief741]

Funny how there isn't a single argument here, which is all of the responses I've read other than three. I'm personally aware that I won't like every character, and yet all but those three responses state is that I'm taking it personally.... rather than offering a cent of merit to Lloyd or Tales'. I'm tempted to go back and quote all of these posts, because they honestly say, well, nothing of value.

Personal taste? Got it. Dualing swords and battle mechanics? Got it. "I just don't want Lloyd?" Nah, that's irrelevant.

If you really wanted to learn about Lloyd and Tales, then you burned your bridges by being a dip**** about it. So you'll have to take all the people here by their word that there's plenty of logical reasons why people support him and think he's likely.

Though I doubt that you respect others enough to take them by their word. Just the fact that you question there being a logical reason behind a longtime fan favorite speaks volumes to how you feel about your fellow fans.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I think Yuri would make more sense than Lloyd. I feel a Tales pick would be aimed moreso at Japan than the US, so might as well give them their favorite. You could balance that out with another pick that’ll delight Western audiences.

I don’t really have a horse in this race though. I don’t have any experience with Tales (I do want to play some of them though) & Namco is a company I’m not too familiar with outside of Pac-Man & Tekken. Lloyd & Yuri both seem cool to me.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

rather than offering a cent of merit to Lloyd or Tales'. I'm tempted to go back and quote all of these posts, because they honestly say, well, nothing of value.

Personal taste? Got it. Dualing swords and battle mechanics? Got it. "I just don't want Lloyd?" Nah, that's irrelevant.

One of the top 7 best selling JRPG series of all time? Got it. Famitsu Magazine's 4th highest ranked JRPG series, with the top 3 already in Smash? Got it.

 

[andree123]

Does anyone think that Yuri is just a purple male ?

 

[pupNapoleon]

If you really wanted to learn about Lloyd and Tales, then you burned your bridges by being a dip**** about it. So you'll have to take all the people here by their word that there's plenty of logical reasons why people support him and think he's likely.

Though I doubt that you respect others enough to take them by their word. Just the fact that you question there being a logical reason behind a longtime fan favorite speaks volumes to how you feel about your fellow fans.

I'm sorry- If asking for one reason is being a "dip****," then none of this thread makes the slightest bit of sense. Yes... I ask for logic behind any decision. If that's 'speaking volumes about how I feel about my fellow fans,' then these fellow fans don't deserve a say. If you cannot defend your position, I don't think your vote is legitimate. Maybe that's why this hits me so strongly (considering it's election season and the USA is about to create Armageddon)--- a vote without reason is by definition, without (stated) merit (though I believe merit that I give exist to many of the respondees). I cannot believe we live in a world where asking for an explanation means you are in the wrong. That's completely incomprehensible.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Just gonna say that as much as I love Yuri Lowell, I would not mind Lloyd at all.

Tales content is Tales content, and man I want Tales content in Smash so bad. I think Yuri and Lloyd both are great options and I'd be hype for either one of them, but I'll also be honest and say I'd be more hyped for Yuri, lol.

I don't mind Lloyd either


I just would like Yuri more lol

 

[7NATOR]

In SF3, Gill's effects were purely aesthetic. In SFV, using fire or ice mattered, but Gill wasn't mirrored so it would be the same effect no matter which side he hit you from. I imagine, the latter will hold true for a hypothetical Lloyd as well.

Wait really. I do remember that at least in SF3, if you go hit The Ice ball, you did get Frozen for a little bit, which was different with just getting hit with a Fireball, buy I haven't Played SF3 in awhile, So I Probably don't know if it had Differences in gameplay

As for Hypothetical, thinking about it you might be Right. Characters in this Game usually use the Same Limbs for their attacks no matter what side they are on, So I guess it would be the Same for Lloyd.

Also, I hope if Lloyd gets in, he's voiced by Robin from Teen Titans.

 

[pupNapoleon]

One of the top 7 best selling JRPG series of all time? Got it. Famitsu Magazine's 4th highest ranked JRPG series, with the top 3 already in Smash? Got it.

Literally no one said this.
No, it doesn't make me want Lloyd.
But at least it explains part of his appeal.
Fourth post of any merit.

It doesnt matter if I agree. I just want to know why. And quite frankly I still dont understand why that's a question that get's so many people so belligerent.

 

[TwiceEXE]

I'm sorry- If asking for one reason is being a "dip****," then none of this thread makes the slightest bit of sense. Yes... I ask for logic behind any decision. If that's 'speaking volumes about how I feel about my fellow fans,' then these fellow fans don't deserve a say. If you cannot defend your position, I don't think your vote is legitimate. Maybe that's why this hits me so strongly--- it's by definition, without (stated) merit (though I believe merit must exist based on the respondees). I cannot believe we live in a world where asking for an explanation means you are in the wrong. That's completely incomprehensible.

My dude, nobody has to justify anything to you. This temper tantrum because people aren't kowtowing to whatever you want is not a good look.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I think I'm understanding both sides of this Lloyd argument here.

pupNapoleon When you called Lloyd a silly pick, I think that turned a lot of people off from explaining why they want Lloyd. Usually, people will openly gush about why they want a character but they weren't as open this time, so I can surmise that degrading Lloyd, even in a seemingly trivial way, is likely the reason why you're having a hard time.

As for everyone else, Pup just wanted an explanation as to why people personally want Lloyd, instead of reading the OP of a thread. At least from what I could gather, he wanted more personal interactions with the subject as opposed to reading a post.

Regardless, I can see why both sides are acting the way they are.

---------------------------------

As for my personal opinion on the topic, I think this conversation has gotten more heated than it needs to be. Perhaps I didn't read everything as clearly as I could've (I'm very exhausted and having a rough week), but yeah.

Pup, people just want Lloyd. To me, that's reason enough. It's fine if you disagree with that, that's my personal views. If someone wants a character, they want a character.

There are legitimate reasons for Lloyd's inclusion outside of personal opinions, but I'm not a Tales fan, so I cannot divulge into that topic. Others would have to fill you in. But seeing how this conversation crashed and burned, it's going to be hard unless you read that OP in the Lloyd thread. I don't think many are going to be willing to discuss at the moment.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So regarding who could be the Square-Enix rep, I think a lot of us underestimate Lara Craft's chances as she won 7 Guinness World Record awards and her series is Square-Enix's 3rd best selling franchise with almost 80 million in sales:

Guinness World Records - WikiRaider

www.wikiraider.com

Best-selling Square Enix games

This article covers the best-selling Square Enix games and franchises. This includes games made by Squaresoft, Enix, and their 2003 merged corporation, Square Enix. It also includes games by its acquired subsidiaries, Eidos and Taito, from before and after their consolidation. It does not...

vgsales.fandom.com

While I think Geno or Sora is more likely, I think no one should sleep on Lara.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I only actually played Symphonia, so Lloyd would be my Tales of choice if any. But I honestly do find him quite fun to use in the game. He has a great personality(though it's fairly typical for an rpg character), cool dual-wielding that's very different from what's already in Smash, and happens to be a very popular Western choice.

I don't know enough about Yuri to really say a thing on him.

That said, Presea Combatir is easily my favorite Tales of character. I generally main her in the game. But I tend to like slower characters when playing, and having smaller characters with giant weapons can be fun. I tend to gravitate towards fun ideas like that in roleplays too, heh. One of my characters(being a metal clone of a Sonic one) basically was a weapons master and had massive strength as her core character gimmick, akin to an ant. Albeit, each member of the metal clones had their own gimmick too.

Anyway, I wouldn't mind seeing a smaller character in Smash that has a very long reach/weapon to change it up a bit. I can't see it being well-balanced, though. They'd be rather difficult to hit, and deal easily too much damage. Even Nightmare(Soul Calibur) sounds a lot better designed.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Outside maybe determining which character would sell itself and the pass at large in terms of the most money, I don't think one really can make an empirical determination about who gets into Smash because the game itself has often not followed that. It has added fighters for a variety of reasons and because the games have been great and the execution of such fighters typically good, we accept it.

I mean heck, I want Sparkster from Rocket Knight Adventures in Smash and I can give you no more hard data to justify that than why I like Honey flavored peanut butter. People like what they like and lot of times, that's enough for them.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Is Lloyd the main character of the Tales series? Or is it something more akin to Xenoblade with a rotating cast?

 

[Perkilator]

For someone who claims to be so open-minded and willing to learn about the character, you've constantly ignored every fact and argument thrown your way and stubbornly refused to do anything that would improve your understanding of the character. I think you're just looking to confirm your preferences through bull**** "objective" means and feel superior about everyone else.

But hey, I'm open to arguments on the contrary.

I think this was a pretty clear sign:

Personal attachment? Yes. It's honestly only the second attempt at an explanation. I don't understand why it was such a problem to ask for....what we argue about in here in literally every post. Understanding.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Is Lloyd the main character of the Tales series? Or is it something more akin to Xenoblade with a rotating cast?

Rotating cast. Like Final Fantasy in pretty much every game has a different group of protagonists except for the few direct sequels. Most of them also have completely different worlds as well, with a few exceptions.

 

[SharkLord]

Five pages worth of debate.

Five. Pages.

Yeesh.

Ah well, at least I got the music I requested. That's good enough for me.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Rotating cast.

So I assume the game Lloyd is from happens to be the most popular in the series? Or Lloyd sticks out the most?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Is Lloyd the main character of the Tales series? Or is it something more akin to Xenoblade with a rotating cast?

Rotating cast

oh, you got the answer already, rip

 

[7NATOR]

So regarding who could be the Square-Enix rep, I think a lot of us underestimate Lara Craft's chances as she won 7 Guinness World Record awards and her series is Square-Enix's 3rd best selling franchise with almost 80 million in sales:

Guinness World Records - WikiRaider

www.wikiraider.com

Best-selling Square Enix games

This article covers the best-selling Square Enix games and franchises. This includes games made by Squaresoft, Enix, and their 2003 merged corporation, Square Enix. It also includes games by its acquired subsidiaries, Eidos and Taito, from before and after their consolidation. It does not...

vgsales.fandom.com

While I think Geno or Sora is more likely, I think no one should sleep on Lara.

I think If Lara had more Nintendo Presence in General, She might Get more notice. Plus i think people feel she wouldn't be Interesting in the Moveset Department, Not saying she has no Moveset Potential, but that people might feel she's Lame.

 

[SirBillyBob]

So with one of the slots already confirmed to be Pepsiman, what other characters are you guys hoping to see??

I want the California Raisins!

You know I have to go with my boy Dunkaccino!

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think I'm understanding both sides of this Lloyd argument here.

pupNapoleon When you called Lloyd a silly pick, I think that turned a lot of people off from explaining why they want Lloyd. Usually, people will openly gush about why they want a character but they weren't as open this time, so I can surmise that degrading Lloyd, even in a seemingly trivial way, is likely the reason why you're having a hard time.

As for everyone else, Pup just wanted an explanation as to why people personally want Lloyd, instead of reading the OP of a thread. At least from what I could gather, he wanted more personal interactions with the subject as opposed to reading a post.

Regardless, I can see why both sides are acting the way they are.

---------------------------------

As for my personal opinion on the topic, I think this conversation has gotten more heated than it needs to be. Perhaps I didn't read everything as clearly as I could've (I'm very exhausted and having a rough week), but yeah.

Pup, people just want Lloyd. To me, that's reason enough. It's fine if you disagree with that, that's my personal views. If someone wants a character, they want a character.

There are legitimate reasons for Lloyd's inclusion outside of personal opinions, but I'm not a Tales fan, so I cannot divulge into that topic. Others would have to fill you in. But seeing how this conversation crashed and burned, it's going to be hard unless you read that OP in the Lloyd thread. I don't think many are going to be willing to discuss at the moment.

Honestly... I think I've said it a few times by now, but I am having an incredibly difficult week. If I'm coming across as an asshole by asking for an explanation, it's not my intention. I feel I've used many communication skills to sound as reasonable as is humanly possible, and I get that it doesn't always translate via text. I don't understand the Lloyd hype, but good for you if you want him and he gets in- I'd trade liking even a single character for them all to sell spectacularly.I just want Smash to be a success- it just makes the most sense to me to root for the game, not a character. But why is it so difficult to get a simple response? Why does it matter that I think he is silly?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Is Lloyd the main character of the Tales series? Or is it something more akin to Xenoblade with a rotating cast?

Rotating cast. Tales of Symphonia is one of the earliest translated games that came to the US and did amazingly well. It's one of the most popular GameCube games.

I can't remember if the SNES one had an official translation, actually. I'm pretty sure that had Cress. He's the first protagonist in the overall series.

Most games do not have sequels. Symphonia did get a sequel, which didn't do all that well(and was a neat idea, but had a lot of issues. You could only properly level up two characters, previous characters from the earlier games were preset entirely, to the point they couldn't have get any new equipment, nor could you use theirs. The balance wasn't all that good. On the other hand, it let you recruit monsters... who you couldn't even control, and it did have a great mapping system for skills, up to 8 due to the Wii Remote. The story was not met too well, due to changing how Lloyd acted. It was for a reason, but it came off as very jarring for him to be a jerk instead of the lovable hero).

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

So I assume the game Lloyd is from happens to be the most popular in the series? Or Lloyd sticks out the most?

The hard thing about saying which Tales of game is the most popular is that there is no official Poll for that. You can only go off of personal opinions and of course personal opinions are all over the place naturally

 

[Mushroomguy12]

So I assume the game Lloyd is from happens to be the most popular in the series? Or Lloyd sticks out the most?

Kind of both. Lloyd's game was also big on the Gamecube, so like with Leon and RE4 a lot of Nintendo fans in particular may have experienced his game first and thus have more attachment to him. Him being in Smash Flash also kind of gave him a leg up. Of course there are other popular protagonists too like Yuri, who also recently had a big boost by having his game released on all the modern systems after 10 years of being Xbox exclusive in the west.

 

[Schnee117]

Is Lloyd the main character of the Tales series? Or is it something more akin to Xenoblade with a rotating cast?

They're mostly a rotating cast.
Some games get sequels or prequels but even then the playable cast isn't strictly the same

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I think If Lara had more Nintendo Presence in General, She might Get more notice. Plus i think people feel she wouldn't be Interesting in the Moveset Department, Not saying she has no Moveset Potential, but that people might feel she's Lame.

Yeah, but she is a icon and has the legacy that she doesn't need more presence on a Nintendo console to get in. Once she's in she'll get attention. And while I wouldn't be too excited for her inclusion, I think she would bring a unique play style to Smash that we haven't seen yet. She would be the closest thing we could get to having Indiana Jones in the game.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Honestly... I think I've said it a few times by now, but I am having an incredibly difficult week. If I'm coming across as an asshole by asking for an explanation, it's not my intention. I feel I've used many communication skills to sound as reasonable as is humanly possible, and I get that it doesn't always translate via text. I don't understand the Lloyd hype, but good for you if you want him and he gets in- I just want Smash to be a success. But why is it so difficult to get a simple response? Why does it matter that I think he is silly?

First off, don't think I personally am against you because I really don't care regardless, your opinions are your opinions and more power to you.

When you say he is silly, it makes it seem like no matter what explanation someone gives, you'll still find him silly, so people figure "what's the point of explaining myself if it's not going to contribute anything?"

Regardless, I hope you have a better week, I'm having a terrible one myself.