Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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I did want to comment that I have been seeing people setting their expectations either too high (expecting "good faith" or anymore free DLC) or too low (thinking of Echoes as shoo-ins when they have historically been low priority/last minute "why not?" additions, which I don't think they'd even consider doing with the direction of the DLC thus far).

I also think people are shortselling a lot of characters for the sake of getting them even if it means they're hardly unique/different. I'd personally rather unique costumes than Echoes that have less differences than Ken, and think some characters could be fleshed out much more than people give credit/account for. I picture Octolings being based on gameplay differences from Splatoon 2 compared to Splatoon 1 (using different weapons, specials, having Dualies/dodge rolling work similar to Joker's Gun dash, etc.).

I say this having simultaneously wanted Dark Samus in more than anything/being extremely happy to have them acknowledged at all, yet also being extremely let down by the wasted potential of not even reusing the Smash 4 assist trophies' moves for the sake of consistency that Echoes demand (not even gonna comment on Daisy actually getting her one difference from Peach patched out). It's okay to be happy if something comes, but most shouldn't want to settle from the get-go (especially at just conception/the idea phase).
Maybe a semi/psuedo-clone Fighter's Pass would be more ideal than an Echo's one; fulfilling a similar niche to echos by being easier to develop and a way to include beloved characters from existing series, but also giving more value in their greater distinction in moves and form from their base character cohorts. You could put in Octolings, Tails, Dixie Kong, a Megaman character of some sort, and some other good option; could someone suggest one to me?
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I'm not exactly sure why but I really hate the idea of Impa as an echo of Shiek. I see a lot of people thinking its a good echo but I just don't see it, not to mention non of her canonical game appearances are really eye catching as far as character designs go. I see some people say things about the hyrule warriors Impa but that seems super unlikely with it not being a character version made by a 1st party developer.
I think it's a good echo because Impa is one of the most popular (though at the moment she's been dethroned as the most popular by Skull Kid) Zelda character to be added to the game, but she's literally only appeared in two games (Hyrule Warriors does not count), only one of which does she have a fighting fit role in. Impa and Sheik are also very similar characters as well. So much so that people were surprised (and kinda miffed) that she didn't replace her. If Sheik makes it to the next game then I hope Impa becomes her echo fighter.

As far as other characters to add, here are my picks.

  • Captain Toad
  • Dixie Kong & Kiddy Kong
  • Elma
  • Rex, Pyra, & Mythra
  • Ganon
  • Spring Man
  • Excitebiker
  • Shovel Knight
  • Chibi-Robo
  • Quote
  • Mach Rider (Excitebiker)
  • Funky Kong (Donkey Kong)
  • Shadow (Sonic)
  • Impa (Sheik)
  • Ribbon Girl (Spring Man)

I also think people are shortselling a lot of characters for the sake of getting them even if it means they're hardly unique/different. I'd personally rather unique costumes than Echoes that have less differences than Ken, and think some characters could be fleshed out much more than people give credit/account for. I picture Octolings being based on gameplay differences from Splatoon 2 compared to Splatoon 1 (using different weapons, specials, having Dualies/dodge rolling work similar to Joker's Gun dash, etc.).

I say this having simultaneously wanted Dark Samus in more than anything/being extremely happy to have them acknowledged at all, yet also being extremely let down by the wasted potential of not even reusing the Smash 4 assist trophies' moves for the sake of consistency that Echoes demand (not even gonna comment on Daisy actually getting her one difference from Peach patched out). It's okay to be happy if something comes, but most shouldn't want to settle from the get-go (especially at just conception/the idea phase).
My thing about the echo fighters is that they also allow characters that don't quite have the popularity to become a fully unique fighter a chance to be on the roster. I'm sure Dark Pit could have a unique moveset but nobody cares enough about him in order to warrant it. I do agree that echos should have at least some meaningful differences on the casual level like Chrom and Ken do.
 

Al-kīmiyā'

Smash the State
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First Party DLC
  1. Skull Kid
  2. Byleth (assuming they get cool moves like Ivy Valentine)
  3. Mage Ganondorf (with a few sword moves)
  4. Masked Link
  5. Dimitri (or Ephraim, or similar spear fighter)
 
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I think echoes are okay because they seem like characters Sakurai or the next Smash director may make unique in the next game if they're kept.

I'd actually prefer for some characters like Ninten to not be echoes, but I figured I'd add one character per certain franchise in each of the suggested passes so *shrug* as long as they made him somewhat unique from either Lucas or Ness, and left out stuff that isn't in EarthBound Beginnings, I just thought it'd work until next game. I'd still rather he use more stuff like 4th-D Slip, boomerangs, and whatever.

Of course this is highly unlikely to happen anyway :upsidedown:
 
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I disagree with the notion of an Echo pass. An Echo PACK? That sounds awesome, but... an Echo pass would have dismal amounts of new content put in the game at the same super sluggish rate as this pass. For $25 (I'm pretty sure they won't charge less)? No deal.

Also, Paper Mario is the only first party character I'm really gunning for left. The others would be nice (Porky, Bandana Waddle Dee [I'd rather Gooey but we're getting Bandee], Tingle/Impa, and Edelgard/Byleth for the other four spots, Paper Mario/Bandee/Edelgard come with Battle Theater/Another Dimension/Garreg Mach Monastery, Porky brings a Ninten assist and Tingle brings a Zelda-themed assist, all add 10 songs to their series current count, 3 new remixes, 1 old remix if available, and 6/7 direct ports into Smash. Paper Mario and Porky have unique victory themes as well.)

Besides, I've got a feeling that more DLC will = more third parties, except for a first party pass. Even then, I doubt it'll be anything but mixtures beyond this one. At a rate of 3 first parties to 2 third parties, and only the third parties get stages.
 

Ace C.R.O.S.S.

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You know what we should discuss right now? Literally anything apart from whether the content of mature rated video games should preclude them from being in Smash.

So let's try this. Nintendo announces 2 more passes, one for 5 more 1st party characters and one for 5 echoes. What are your dream picks?

(feel free to make up who the last two pass fighters will be if you want to echoes of them)
Okay.
1st Party Pass:
- Mach Rider
- Ashley (WarioWare)
- Isaac (Golden Sun) (Just for the Fans)
- Waluigi
- Mike Jones (Star Tropics)

...Echo Pass?:
- Shadow (Sonic the Hedgehog)

I can only think of Shadow to be honest...
 
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It was said at a Shareholder briefing, the quote in point



Source: https://www.gamesradar.com/heres-wh...vestor-qanda-new-online-switch-game-and-more/

People like to use Banjo as a "See? They aren't aiming for new demographics" while completely ignoring both Joker and Hero that actually do (Given the treatment Hero received pre-reveal, It's obvious that (in the west at bare minimum) that the DQ fanbase did not have much cross over with Smash). Banjo is an exception and I've always veiwed him as such in many ways. He's not there to sell the pass to a new demographic, he's there to sell the pass to the Smash fanbase who would otherwise be disappointed in the other 4 choices and I'd likely say he's the only bone the Smash fanbase is getting in the pass. People can and will buy a game for one character. I've done it and I know plenty of other people who have. You can even get them to buy a console too if you hit the right market (ie weebs that have infinite money).
Well said, some people might point to Banjo as the anomaly, but really he's the exception to the fighters pass and he doesn't set a standard. I'm more confident about the pass attracting new audiences than it appealing to the fanbase that already owns Smash because of Joker, Hero, and the Shareholder briefing that you linked.


-----------------------------------

Now onto my thoughts on the last two DLC spots. I honestly don't believe that Nintendo are gonna choose a character simply because it came from company X, they'll choose a series because they want THAT series as part of the DLC and not to fill an arbitrary company rep quota that doesn't exist.

If Nintendo actually wants to diversify the fighters pass to appease as many different demographics as possible then the inclusion of a third JRPG character would be detrimental for that goal. We have Joker and Hero who are both from classic and modern JRPGs. A third JRPG character won't be wowing many people because of the inclusion of the two franchises I've mentioned before, the pool of potential new buyers is much smaller compared to other genres now. This is why I believe JRPG franchises like Tales are not very likely for the fighters pass. I will actually be surprised if a third JRPG character makes it in since this would go against Nintendo's own words of appealing to different demographics, although Nintendo going against their own word isn't exactly a new thing so who knows?

At this point in time my prediction for the last two characters is Crash Bandicoot and Leon S. Kennedy.
Both characters and their franchises are popular worldwide, and they both provide potential new audiences. Unlike characters like Doomguy these two aren't gonna have a problem being recognized together by the east and west. And I really doubt we're gonna see another two characters that are only popular in certain regions (ala Banjo and Hero).

A common argument against Crash that I've seen is that Banjo already ticks the cartoonish platformer spot, but the truth is Crash and Banjo appeal to different audiences. Banjo appeals to Nintendo fans while Crash appeals to Playstation fans. Crash was once treated as the mascot of Playstation and he was a system seller back then. Of course time wasn't kind for poor Crash, but he pulled himself together and got his revival with much success. The character isn't the mascot of Playstation anymore, but there's no denying that he's still a big name and the majority of Crash's fanbase is composed of Playstation fans.

Now it's time for Leon. I do believe that regardless of which Resident Evil character gets in the other Resident Evil characters will be alt skins similair to Hero, which is why discussion about which Resident Evil character should get in isn't important to me since all the protagonists are interchangeable. I merely chose Leon because he's my favorite. There is no character currently in Smash who is from a horror genre, so the potential to attract a new audience is quite big since Resident Evil is one of the biggest horror game franchises in the market. Resident Evil has also received new ports and support for the Switch which is a bit similair to how Dragon Quest received new games and ports on the Switch before their character got revealed.

There are other characters that I haven't mentioned who are runner-ups for DLC and I wouldn't be surprised if they were our fighters instead, but they'll be for another time.
 

Us3inMN

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Not super related to the conversation, but about Skyrim being on every console, there was even a version of it on the Amazon Echo/Dot/Thing.

1st Party Pass:
Captain Toad
Excitebiker
Isaac (Again, for the fans)
Karate Joe (Rhythm Paradise/Tengoku/Heaven)
Spring Man

Echo Pass:
Shadow the Hedgehog
Funky Kong
Some sort of Echo Fighter for Snake (Classic Raiden?)
Ms. PAC-MAN
Some sort of Echo Fighter for Captain Falcon (Just so F-Zero gets some love)
 
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Ooh, we're doing 5 fighters for an echo pack and first party pack? Sounds good!

First Party Pack
  1. Bandana Dee
  2. Dixie Kong (semi-clone of Diddy)
  3. Captain Toad
  4. Zelda rep of some kind... I'll be the odd guy and say Tingle, for his spin-off appearances (just replace him with one of his brothers on Great Bay)
  5. Uh... I suppose a Rhythm Heaven rep. It did get the raw end of the deal in Smash 4.
Echo Pack
  1. Shadow the Hedgehog (Sonic)
  2. Ms. Pac-Man (Pac-Man)
  3. Birdo (Yoshi)
  4. Impa (Sheik)
  5. Louie/Brittany (Olimar/Alph)
 

Lenidem

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First party pack:

- Skull Kid. My most wanted ever (with Diddy and Wario back in Smash 64 days).
- Toad (and Toadette) or Captain Toad (and Captain Toadette). He just should be there.
- Dixie Kong. She's one of the last Nintendo All Stars. Could be a semi-clone.
- Waluigi. With him and Toad, I feel the Mario representation will finally be perfect (well, except if we go for E. Gadd, but he could be an assist; never played Mario RPG so don't really know Geno).
- Isaac. The first Golden Sun was awesome, didn't play the others. Smash is all about bringing together past and present glories, so I think he deserves his spot.

Echo pack:

- Shadow. Obviously.
- Funky Kong. With Dixie and K.Rool, the DK representation would be perfect (except if we go for Cranky, but he could be an assist).
- Impa. She's not one of my most wanted of the Zelda cast, but if I choose only one 'full' character, then I think Zelda deserves at least one more Echo, and Impa is the best candidate for that.
- ... I don't know. Actually, I'm not a fan of the Echo concept. Dark Samus was more impressive when she was an assist, Daisy does some weird stuff just because Peach does (fly, use Toad, throw turnips?)... but that's not what we are talking about.
 
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Ura

Advance Wars is the new Mother 3
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Not that I subscribe to the idea that the FP will be 100% third-party definitively but if the proposed packs were a thing, I would want it to be this...

1st Party Pack

1. Andy
2. Isaac
3. Elma
4. Dixie Kong (semi-clone)
5. Bandana Dee

Echo Pass

1. Shadow (Sonic)
2. Funky Kong (Donkey Kong)
3. Impa (Sheik)
4. Jody Summer (Falcon/ZSS)
5. Ninten (Ness)
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Im interested: What would an Advance Wars moveset entail?
Hopefully a character in a tank that players can suplex and run over with Yoshi's Final Smash. In terms of gameplay it would probably have something to do with building up an army to make the character's Special Attacks better or something.
 
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You know what we should discuss right now? Literally anything apart from whether the content of mature rated video games should preclude them from being in Smash.

So let's try this. Nintendo announces 2 more passes, one for 5 more 1st party characters and one for 5 echoes. What are your dream picks?

(feel free to make up who the last two pass fighters will be if you want to echoes of them)
1st party
Nidoking
Paper Mario based on 64 and TTYD
Flint
Waddle Dee done similarly to Piranha Plant
Wrestler & Reporter

Echoes
Dry Bowser
Dixie Kong
Rover as Villager's echo
Tom Nook as Isabelle's echo, I'd want the pom-pom attacks to instead be bells
Ms. Pac Man
 

EChaotix02

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If I had to choose a character for a DLC I would Choose Kamek, representing the Yoshi's Island series. Is the only franchise from the original 8 that doesn't feature it's villain in a playable way, and the Yoshi' Island universe only has one fighter since Smash64

I would make Kamek' moveset kinda like Olimar, summoning enemies/minions for attacking, alongside attacks with his broom and his square, spherical and triangular - shaped magic used as projectiles
 

StormC

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First Party
Dixie Kong
Bandana Dee
Ganon
Kamek
Isaac

Echo Fighters
Impa (Sheik)
Tom Nook (Isabelle)
Liquid Snake (Snake)
Zack Fair (Cloud)
Shadow (Sonic)
 
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Rie Sonomura

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I guess I can take a swing...I guess.
First Party
Adeleine
Barista Dog
Viridi
Claus
Waluigi


Echo Fighters
Mrs. Pacman :ultpacman:
Toon Zelda :ultzelda:
Black Shadow :ultfalcon:
Sephiroth :ultcloud:
King Hippo :ultlittlemac:
>Toon Zelda as Zelda Echo
>Sephiroth as Cloud Echo

You... realize they have different heights and in the latter’s case, abilities, than the characters they’re supposed to echo right?

And tbh Black Shadow is bulkier than CF, so he’d be better as a semi-clone but that’s just my 2 cents
 
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First-Party
Dixie Kong (semi-clone of Diddy Kong)
Paper Mario or Captain Toad, either would be fine
Either Elma or Rex with Pyra / Mythra
Bandana Waddle Dee
Style Savvy character

If I had room for more I'd put Ganon, a Rhythm Heaven character, and Tom Nook in there.

Echo Fighters
Octoling (for Inkling)
Funky Kong (for Donkey Kong)
Link from the Link's Awakening remake (for Toon Link)
Alph (for Olimar, poor kid needs his own taunts, Final Smash, and victory animations if they don't want to give him Rock Pikmin)
...Classic Yoshi (for Yoshi) (a 3D rendition of Yoshi's original look, with the half closed eyes and paws, seen on Super Mario World's boxart, moveset is identical but posture is more hunched and horizontal like how Yoshi was in Smash 64 and Melee)

Both sets were chosen assuming Assist Trophies deconfirm but not Spirits, so no Waluigi or Ashley or any of those.
 

Opossum

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Not really into enough Echoes to do a full pass, but here's a first party one.

Edelgard
Waluigi
Starfy
Henry Fleming
Chorus Kids

Two from veteran franchises, three from new franchises.
 

Ura

Advance Wars is the new Mother 3
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Im interested: What would an Advance Wars moveset entail?
It would mostly entail a Unit Purchasing system in which the CO uses a Fund System (think Hero's MP System) to purchase units from a sub-menu. In it, a wide arsenal of units would be available to the player which covers a lot of ground. Tanks for heavy firepower, Artillery/Rockets for zoning, Recon for fast, weak attacks, etc..

Depending on who the CO is of course, the melee attacks and some of the specials could be different. For instance, both Andy & Sami would have the Unit Purchasing system I mentioned but they would play a lot different from each other otherwise. Andy using his Wrenches for close-combat along with using his Hyper Repair ability to heal/upgrade units and Sami being a sort of in-between of :ultsnake::ultzss:in regards to her melee attacks while also having a special that utilizes her Machine Gun.

I could go on about this but I don't want to get carried away here lol. If you're interested, swing by the Andy thread because we could use the activity. That goes for any other peeps here as well! :bluejump:
Cut Snake and give Sami a bazooka moveset.
As much as I may want Andy & Sami on the roster, I wouldn't go this far personally. For one I love Snake's moveset and he's an invaluable part of the roster.

That being said, I don't see the problem of Sami being an in-between of Snake and ZSS lol. She doesn't have to outright replace him nor do I think Sakurai would even remotely consider that possibility. :laugh:
Sami is a Commanding Officer from Advance Wars and she was planned to be a Snake clone in Project M before it got canned. You'd think there are better ways of asking for clones but eh.
I thought it was promising for what it was. Sami would have made for a sweet Snake semi-clone and it's a shame PM went out the way it did. If it went longer for another 2-3 years or so, we would have absolutely got Sami in. And for that matter, any kind of Advance Wars representation.

Although for what it's worth, I believe Andy might have a good chance for Super Smash Flash 2. There was a rumor that suggests he could possibly be in that game (which predicted Ryu in the game).
who the **** is sami

you best take that back right now boy
 

Ura

Advance Wars is the new Mother 3
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i thought her name was just sam

sami sounds like one of those quirky rpg names
Really? Well that's a first. Sami is a name I don't see that often in video games.
If Project M just lasted a few more months we would've seen Lyn actually playable in a Smash game with a finished and polished moveset. A tragedy among tragedies... View attachment 234608
Sami, Isaac, Lyn, Knuckles.

We really got screwed over big time eh? Talk about the worst timeline ever.
 
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