Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Garteam]

I mean with Doomguy there is minor the issue of how...
...they literally cannot say the name of his most iconic weapon in game.

And obviously he's gonna have it.

They could just refer to it as BFG and just not say what it stands for.

Or alternatively call it Best Friend Gift or something.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Are there any characters that made their debut in that game?

That redhead chick (I forgot her name) and the predecessor, Namco X Capcom, had Reiji and Xiaomu

 

[lordvaati]

Are there any characters that made their debut in that game?

The Namco x Capcom and PxZ protags are all original characters.

BFG

Oh no I said it.

Besides the most iconic is the super shotgun

Eh,, I've heard arguments for the Chainsaw being that way too. but the BFG9k is the most well known. Even alluding to the official name doesn't seem in line with what they might do...though it is not impossible since they did change one of Bayo's catchphrases.

 

[N3ON]

Blood and guts everywhere. Just how I remember the good ol' Nintendo games.

I think I get what he means. The world is stylized and ventures no where near realism, with it existing primarily to support the gameplay, which the game has been built around (instead of a narrative or character - I mean, they didn't even truly name the protagonist). Also, the game revolves largely around a single, refined element, being the single-player, with the other elements seemingly included mostly out of necessity. Those are Nintendo sensibilities and a bit of a rarity these days, especially in the west.

I mean, Doom 2016 seemed like natural evolution of the older titles that understood the spirit of the series, and didn't much faff around with overcomplications and extraneous features. Much like how Mario, Zelda, and Metroid games have evolved while still retaining their initial "feel". Modernizing a series gracefully while abiding by its original spirit is easier said than done. If you think about it, a lot of non-Nintendo series stumble in the shift or play it too safe. Even Nintendo hit some rough patches with series like Star Fox and DK.

The blood and the guts are superficial elements really, when compared to the meat of the game. Sort of like how you can make Zelda cute and chibi or edgy and gothic, but the sensibilities will remain the same.

That's just my take though.

I don't think Banjo & Kazooie were a better fit for Smash so much as they were easier to implement considering their gameplay premise is much less abstract and their animations are more easily readable.

I think Banjo & Kazooie were a better fit for Smash since they used to be Nintendo characters.

I feel like Skyrimguy and Doomguy are the new Steve and Banjo.
One has more raw numbers, the other is the better fit for Smash.

Another difference is that while Banjo had notable popularity from the ballot, Doom Slayer's popularity is likely too new to matter this time.

I mean with Doomguy there is minor the issue of how...
...they literally cannot say the name of his most iconic weapon in game.

And obviously he's gonna have it.

I might've missed it, but I don't think they even explain what BFG means in Doom 2016. People just kinda know.

Not that they'd even have to elaborate in Smash, but in the past they've also called it the Big Freakin' Gun.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

I mean with Doomguy there is minor the issue of how...
...they literally cannot say the name of his most iconic weapon in game.

And obviously he's gonna have it.

It was named the Bio Force Gun in the movie, if they want to use that. The 2016 design is mostly based on it anyway.

 

[Us3inMN]

BFG

Oh no I said it.

Besides the most iconic is the super shotgun

I'd have to agree, honestly. Wasn't it on the box art for the original DOOM, anyways?

And like I mentioned before, adding him to Smash would be a good way for Bethesda to make up for not making the Collector's Edition available for Switch owners

 

[Vrbtm]

BFG

Oh no I said it.

Besides the most iconic is the super shotgun

"Iconic" does not meant the weapon that you personally enjoy the most.

They could just refer to it as BFG and just not say what it stands for.

No, they can't do that, because everyone knows what it stands for.

It was named the Bio Force Gun in the movie, if they want to use that.

Yeah, I'm sure everyone wants to be reminded of that terrible movie.

Or alternatively call it Best Friend Gift or something.

That would be SO dumb.

I wish we could all just accept that Doomguy is an insane crack pick. It's like speculating about Tommy Vercetti.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It was named the Bio Force Gun in the movie, if they want to use that. The 2016 design is mostly based on it anyway.

That sounds really cool. I like that.

I think I get what he means. The world is stylized and ventures no where near realism, with it existing primarily to support the gameplay, which the game has been built around (instead of a narrative or character - I mean, they didn't even truly name the protagonist). Also, the game revolves largely around a single, refined element, being the single-player, with the other elements seemingly included mostly out of necessity. Those are Nintendo sensibilities and a bit of a rarity these days, especially in the west.

I mean, Doom 2016 seemed like natural evolution of the older titles that understood the spirit of the series, and didn't much faff around with overcomplications and extraneous features. Much like how Mario, Zelda, and Metroid games have evolved while still retaining their initial "feel". Modernizing a series gracefully while abiding by its original spirit is easier said than done. If you think about it, a lot of non-Nintendo series stumble in the shift or play it too safe. Even Nintendo hit some rough patches with series like Star Fox and DK.

The blood and the guts are superficial elements really, when compared to the meat of the game. Sort of like how you can make Zelda cute and chibi or edgy and gothic, but the sensibilities will remain the same.

That's just my take though.

I was kidding in my original post but this is really insightful.

"Iconic" does not meant the weapon that you personally enjoy the most.

Doomguy is never happening, by the way.

Two things:

1. PLATINUM7 didn't even imply that he liked the gun better. Just that he saw it as more iconic (and may not have been completely serious.)
2. The extra "Doomguy isn't happening" was unnecessary. We get that you don't like the idea and/or don't see it happening. It's probably time to move on from that (unless you have something more in depth to say on the matter that can help spark an interesting conversation instead of causing a heated argument).

 

[Vrbtm]

1. PLATINUM7 didn't even imply that he liked the gun better. Just that he saw it as more iconic (and may not have been completely serious.

It's a completely reasonable assumption, because the only reason you'd challenge the BFG's obvious iconography is if you like your personal favorite gun better. The fact of the matter is that the BFG is objectively the most iconic weapon in the Doom series, because it's the one that people who don't even play Doom know about. I don't care if he's being serious.

Even if Doom was the most family friendly franchise ever, the BFG's existence as his most iconic weapon ALONE hard disconfirms him. Hard.

One letter is all you need to disconfirm a character forever. I would just really love it if everybody understood that.

 

[Deleted member]

I feel like Skyrimguy and Doomguy are the new Steve and Banjo.
One has more raw numbers, the other is the better fit for Smash.

eh, it's not Banjo vs Steve 2.0. If you look back at most some of the things leading up to BK's reveal, we had those missing rareware spirits, Vergeben claiming about Smash getting something Minecraft related, and that 1 tease involving Banjo a couple of days before E3. It's easy to see why a Microsoft rep was 1 of the more speculated things for several months. Other than a few debunked leaks, the only thing(s) that Bethesda has done was port games to the Switch, say "oh yeah" to a question about Smash, and tease something for Nintendo fans. No well known/credible leaker has yet to claim or speculate there might be something Bethesda related coming to Smash nor has there been any sort of datamine teasing any Bethesda rep, so I wouldn't say the situation between Doom Slayer and Dragonborn are similar to the other.

Although maybe once 4chan starts coining the phrase Doomers to Doom Slayer supporters then maybe it is the new Steve and Banjo.​

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's a completely reasonable assumption, because the only reason you'd challenge the BFG's obvious iconography is if you like your personal favorite gun better. The fact of the matter is that the BFG is objectively the most iconic weapon in the Doom series, because it's the one that people who don't even play Doom know about. I don't care if he's being serious.

Or assuming that his statement wasn't totally biased it could be that Super Shotgun was the most iconic gun in the original Doom series that was overshadowed by the BFG in the newer titles.

 

[Ace C.R.O.S.S.]

Are there any characters that made their debut in that game?

What do you mean? Do you even know that game?

 

[Nemuresu]

Lmao remember Katalina

Katalina was not a Vergeben leak by any means. It was Hitagi who claimed that.

You mean Guilty Gear which was announced by Daisuke himself last year, telling everyone that he was working on a new Guilty Gear title.

And nothing suggested it was gonna be announced at EVO. Which is why people like Vergeben and Sabi even talked about that game.

A lot of his more “accurate leaks” are either just guesses, or him repeating stuff that everyone already knows. Like Janemba for example.

Yeah right, so easy to guess a Castlevania collection, a new SamSho, most of Ultimate's roster, a newcomer in Soul Calibur 6, the Ninja Turtles, Jump Force, a new Contra and so on.

Like, look at his calls for the Guilty Gear characters, Bedwoman, and Robo Ky. We ALL already know both are coming. Robo Ky was teased in the story mode for Revelator, and Bedman dies. Meaning they’re gonna need a new character to take over his function, most likely at least. Both of those are very safe guesses for new characters. Same for the “Flamboyant man witg long hair” he’s obviously talking about Testament, who had concept art of him officially released back in Xrd, is one of the primary antagonists of the franchise, and incredibly popular and requested. Like, if you were to ask any Guilty Gear fans to name three characters they’d predict to return, they’d probably say those three, lol. I would have been more impressed if he’d mentioned the black guy from the trailer, but he didn’t. Where’s the “ and a new character who’s a black samurai with a badass mechanical oni mask.” Nothing.

Being requested doesn't assure anything. People wanted C. Viper, Q, Rose and so many other characters in SFV yet they're still not in.

The only real leak in his post is Haomaru in SC6, but that’s only cause I don’t follow that game very closely personally. I’m sure if I followed it as much as I do ASW games, I’d be able to see through the bull**** there just as well as I can with DBFZ and Guilty Gear.

And unlike you, I keep a bigger eye on fighting games and leaks, and I can assure you no one ever talked about Haohmaru being in SCVI aside from him.

“My sources tell me Asuka from Senran Kagura will be joining Yumi in Cross Tag Battle.”

Protip: they were both datamined ages ago.

Perhaps instead of bull****ting a bad joke like that, how 'bout you guess the last two characters for Smash without any real basis to them and succeed at it? Let's see if you're any better than the last people who tried to pull the "everyone could've guessed it" fallacy on me. I'd love to see /v/'s childish manipulation of narrative work for once.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What do you mean? Do you even know that game?

No. I just knew that it was a crossover title and assumed that none of the characters were original like how it is in Super Smash Bros. or Playstation All Stars: Battle Royale. The question was mostly to determine if you were talking about a character that was in Project X Zone (and thus would be from a different series) or a character that was from Project X Zone.

 

[N3ON]

Even if Doom was the most family friendly franchise ever, the BFG's existence as his most iconic weapon ALONE hard disconfirms him. Hard.

One letter is all you need to disconfirm a character forever. I would just really love it if everybody understood that.

See this game?

It's rated E10.

It has a song on it called Party Rock Anthem. You know who that song is by?

LMFAO.

And I'd say more people know what that stands for than BFG.

Get outta here with your anti Doom Slayer bias.

 

[Vrbtm]

See this game?

Just Dance has nothing to do with Smash.

Furthermore, that's just one random song. You can't compare it to a signature weapon.

 

[N3ON]

Just Dance has nothing to do with Smash.

If you're having trouble putting the pieces together it's precedent that acronyms don't effect ratings.

 

[Vrbtm]

If you're having trouble putting the pieces together it's precedent that acronyms don't effect ratings.

*affect

I'm not talking about ratings. I'm talking about the principle that you can't say or imply the word **** in a game developed by Nintendo, regardless of what the rating is. It could be rated M, but it will still never use the word ****.

 

[Ace C.R.O.S.S.]

No. I just knew that it was a crossover title and assumed that none of the characters were original like how it is in Super Smash Bros. or Playstation All Stars: Battle Royale. The question was mostly to determine if you were talking about a character that was in Project X Zone (and thus would be from a different series) or a character that was from Project X Zone.

Well, i meant an original character from those series, to be more specific the protagonist Reiji Arisu

 

[N3ON]

I was kidding in my original post but this is really insightful.

Oh, alright! Thanks!

*affect

I'm not talking about ratings.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

*affect

I'm not talking about ratings. I'm talking about the principle that you can't say or imply the word **** in a game developed by Nintendo, regardless of what the rating is.

Except it doesn't imply such language if you don't know what it means in the first place, and the demographic that's too young for Doom is highly unlikely to know what it means especially if they use the Bio Force Gun name instead.

Also there's no need to correct someone's spelling. It's just kinda rude.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Doomguy would be hugely disappointing to me.

 

[I_DON'T_KNOW_YOU!]

Doomguy would be hugely disappointing to me.

Wii Fit Trainer, most of the Fire Emblem cast, Dark Pit, Isabelle, and Piranha Plant are hugely disappointing. I'll take Doom Slayer over them any day.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Doomguy would be hugely disappointing to me.

For me all he would have is the potentially interesting gameplay. I'm not a fan of the character or series. I don't really have faith in the music selection either since I'm not a heavy metal fan (or at least I'm assuming that's the genre they went with. I haven't played the game so I could be dead wrong). Then again I said the same thing about the Persona music and its rap/hip hop and I actually quite like the songs we got.

Now I'm curious. Does anyone have a Doom track they'd recommend or one that fits the feel of the game really well?

 

[Sari]

Now I'm curious. Does anyone have a Doom track they'd recommend or one that fits the feel of the game really well?

I never really got into Doom but you can't go wrong with the main theme.

 

[N3ON]

For me all he would have is the potentially interesting gameplay. I'm not a fan of the character or series. I don't really have faith in the music selection either since I'm not a heavy metal fan (or at least I'm assuming that's the genre they went with. I haven't played the game so I could be dead wrong). Then again I said the same thing about the Persona music and its rap/hip hop and I actually quite like the songs we got.

Now I'm curious. Does anyone have a Doom track they'd recommend or one that fits the feel of the game really well?

I appreciate what Mick Gordon did with the Doom soundtrack, though truthfully I'm not always huge on how grindy it can be (still - using an actual chainsaw as an instrument is hugely fitting and pretty inspired).

But think of some of the remixes we could get:

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Katalina was not a Vergeben leak by any means. It was Hitagi who claimed that.

How come Hitagi predicted her in the first place? Aside from Cygames helping make Dragalia Lost, a PS4 exclusive game related to a gacha phone series has nothing to do with Nintendo at all, nor have there really been any hints.

*affect

I'm not talking about ratings. I'm talking about the principle that you can't say or imply the word **** in a game developed by Nintendo, regardless of what the rating is. It could be rated M, but it will still never use the word ****.

That's another reason why I think Dragonborn would work better with Smash. They wouldn't have to tone him down at all, as is he isn't any worse than Snake or Bayonetta.

 

[Vrbtm]

Except it doesn't imply such language if you don't know what it means in the first place

...Yes it does. That's not how it works. A little kid who doesn't know what it stands for could easily just ask someone about it, and then they'd know.

Is it a big deal if a little kid hears the word? No. But to Nintendo, it is. They have an image to hold up. It would be like if a Disney dropped an F-bomb somewhere.

That's another reason why I think Dragonborn would work better with Smash. They wouldn't have to tone him down at all, as is he isn't any worse than Snake or Bayonetta.

You're certainly not wrong, but I think the Dragonborn has other thing going against him than that. Like, not really being his own distinct character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...Yes it does. That's not how it works. A little kid who doesn't know what it stands for could easily just ask someone about it, and then they'd know.

Is it a big deal if a little kid hears the word? No. But to Nintendo, it is. They have an image to hold up. It would be like if a Disney dropped an F-bomb somewhere.

If the person they ask hasn't played Doom or isn't a hardcore gamer then they probably wouldn't know, and even if they did it's up to them to decide whether or not its acceptable to tell the child what it means. If even that seems to be a problem in Nintendo's eyes then they could omit the BFG or not even call it by name. They could call the attack involving it the Bio Force Blast or something.

You're certainly not wrong, but I think the Dragonborn has other thing going against him than that. Like, not really being his own distinct character.

That's not likely to stop them considering

 

[Opossum]

...Yes it does. That's not how it works. A little kid who doesn't know what it stands for could easily just ask someone about it, and then they'd know.

Is it a big deal if a little kid hears the word? No. But to Nintendo, it is. They have an image to hold up. It would be like if a Disney dropped an F-bomb somewhere.

You're certainly not wrong, but I think the Dragonborn has other thing going against him than that. Like, not really being his own distinct character.

Do you know how many pieces of family-friendly media, including Disney productions, use the word snafu?

Did you know that word is an acronym? I'll give you three guesses as to what the F stands for.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Disney Noooooooo! You can’t use that acronym! Think of the children!

Spoiler

Doom Slayer for Smash

 

[Zinith]

Oh.... the... name of a weapon precludes a character from Smash apparently...

Such reasonable standards

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Who cares? I'm pretty sure the violence in the games is a bigger issue.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So I listened to some Doom music and...Yup that's heavy metal alright. I don't care for it but it would be funny watching Pichu and Isabelle fighting to it.

Who cares? I'm pretty sure the violence in the games is a bigger issue.

True though debate about it usually devolves into
"The character can be toned down without sacrificing the point of the game so long as his attacks still feel satisfying."
"No you can't and even if you could it doesn't matter because Doom is a gory game and has no place in Super Smash Bros."

So instead of arguing about it I'm just going to go to bed before I fall asleep a the keybxscfgggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg

 

[ze9]

There's no problem with having the BFG9000 in Smash, as long as they don't explain what it stands for.

I think I get what he means. The world is stylized and ventures no where near realism, with it existing primarily to support the gameplay, which the game has been built around (instead of a narrative or character - I mean, they didn't even truly name the protagonist). Also, the game revolves largely around a single, refined element, being the single-player, with the other elements seemingly included mostly out of necessity. Those are Nintendo sensibilities and a bit of a rarity these days, especially in the west.

I mean, Doom 2016 seemed like natural evolution of the older titles that understood the spirit of the series, and didn't much faff around with overcomplications and extraneous features. Much like how Mario, Zelda, and Metroid games have evolved while still retaining their initial "feel". Modernizing a series gracefully while abiding by its original spirit is easier said than done. If you think about it, a lot of non-Nintendo series stumble in the shift or play it too safe. Even Nintendo hit some rough patches with series like Star Fox and DK.

Yeah, thanks for having worded it better. That's exactly what I meant.
Of course the blood and gore and death metal don't have much in common with Nintendo, but under the guise I feel like the games share the same philosophy.

Another difference is that while Banjo had notable popularity from the ballot, Doom Slayer's popularity is likely too new to matter this time.

True, of course Doomguy is nowhere near as requested as Banjo. But Nintendo gamers in general should have had more exposure to Doom than to Skyrim. Or at least I know I did, back in the N64 days. But it was also on the SNES and on the GBA, the series just low-key had a lot of presence on Nintendo consoles.

Both fit just fine in Smash.

Really this is subjective and a lot of people think Steve would look fine, and like how Banjo & Kazooie have a lot of moves, Steve has a lot of items and possibilities from his game including unique ones.

Yeah I'm not saying Steve wouldn't fit, it's just that Banjo was the #1 choice, at least in the sense that he would resonate the most with Smash fans.
Steve would probably be the #2. See also: Megaman and Ryu. Ryu is probably the bigger deal, but he arrived after Megaman, who was more wanted.

People like to use Banjo as a "See? They aren't aiming for new demographics" while completely ignoring both Joker and Hero that actually do (Given the treatment Hero received pre-reveal, It's obvious that (in the west at bare minimum) that the DQ fanbase did not have much cross over with Smash). Banjo is an exception and I've always veiwed him as such in many ways. He's not there to sell the pass to a new demographic, he's there to sell the pass to the Smash fanbase who would otherwise be disappointed in the other 4 choices and I'd likely say he's the only bone the Smash fanbase is getting in the pass. People can and will buy a game for one character. I've done it and I know plenty of other people who have. You can even get them to buy a console too if you hit the right market (ie weebs that have infinite money).

This is a better take, but on the other hand, every 3rd party character inherently reaches a vaster demographic than a 1st party one (yeah, even Banjo). My point is, they're not mindlessly adding the biggest and most selling franchises with the widest reach like you often hear in speculation. You're never going to see something like League of Legends get a character in Smash. All the choices so far have been pretty deeply ingrained in hardcore gaming culture, and with a notable Nintendo presence in most cases.
Though Joker is certainly here for the new demographics, but I think he's as "extreme" as we're gonna see.

 

[Vrbtm]

Did you know that word is an acronym?

The fact that so few people know that it's an acronym, and not just a funny-sounding word, makes it okay.

BFG doesn't have that status at all. Not even close.

If even that seems to be a problem in Nintendo's eyes then they could omit the BFG or not even call it by name. They could call the attack involving it the Bio Force Blast or something.

I wish you had a concept of how utterly unrealistic this is.

That's not likely to stop them considering

Except Dragon Quest is an extremely important franchise, Splatoon is a very popular first party franchise, Piranha Plant is a JOKE character, the focus of Pokémon Trainer is the Pokémon and not the trainer, R.O.B. is an iconic symbol of the NES, and Animal Crossing is a very popular first party franchise. The entire point of Mii Fighters is customization.

All completely different examples. The Dragonborn has literally none of that going for him. The Elder Scrolls is not that important. It just sells a lot. On top of that, it has very little to do with Nintendo besides getting Skyrim on Switch, but that's only because Skyrim is playable on literally everything.

So, yes. That's EXTREMELY likely to stop them.

Oh.... the... name of a weapon precludes a character from Smash apparently...

Such reasonable standards

Glad you agree.

Who cares? I'm pretty sure the violence in the games is a bigger issue.

It is, but my point is that even if Doom wasn't violent, the BFG would still be enough to disconfirm him permanently and reduce him to a crack pick.

Think of the children!

People ironically use this phrase a lot to make fun of people who care about children, but...

What exactly is so ****ing wrong about thinking of the children?

Could someone please explain that to me?

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

The Elder Scrolls is not that important. It just sells a lot. On top of that, it has very little to do with Nintendo besides getting Skyrim on Switch, but that's only because Skyrim is playable on literally everything.

Every single Elder Scrolls game since Morrowind has won many GOTY categories, with Oblivion and Skyrim both winning Overall Game of the Year. There's a reason for all of those sales, and it is extremely important for what it did for Western RPGs, along with the open world style. Animal Crossing is a popular First Party, Elder Scrolls is a popular 3rd party.

and again, remember, we're also getting Blades.

Also, to be honest, people blow the "Skyrim on Everything" thing way out of proportion. It got one set of re releases in Special Edition then the Switch port later on. Plus with all of the upgrades it adds and the better engine for mod support, it deserves more respect. But I don't wanna go off topic so I'll end it with that.

 

[Vrbtm]

Plus with all of the upgrades it adds and the better engine for mod support, it deserves more respect.

I personally find it very hard to respect a game that lives and dies on its mod support. You're not even really playing Skyrim at all, and frankly, the entire franchise is a joke to me because of that. I hope it never touches anything Smash related (and it obviously won't).

GotY means absolutely nothing.

 

[HyruleHero]

GotY means absolutely nothing.

Well no GOTY means Game of the Year so it is the single most critically acclaimed game released that year. Breath of the Wild got this in 2017, would you argue that it didn't deserve it with all the positive praise it got?

Also on the BFG topic what does it matter what its called there isn't a way to view the name of moves in game to my knowledge so only fans of the franchise will know what it is from the characters weapon he holds. This is a very nothing point to bring up to 'deconfirm' Doomslayer the rating argument has some grounds but not the name of a weapon. This would be a very simple thing to change or remove like they removed Bayonetta losing her clothes ever attack.

 

[N3ON]

People ironically use this phrase a lot to make fun of people who care about children, but...

What exactly is so ****ing wrong about thinking of the children?

Could someone please explain that to me?

You know who doesn't think of the children? Disney. Pixar too. They litter their content with references that only adults will recognize. Little kids who don't know why the adults are chuckling could easily just ask someone about it, and then they'd know.

Why won't Disney just think of the children?