Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[tenworldsguy]

Those characters didn't have the opportunity to fight. Frisk gets attacked and is supposed to choose not to fight.

For a story/fanon thing I'm writing my friends and I made movesets for all of the newcomers added. I was initially reluctant to include Frisk for the exact reasons, but then they pointed out an interesting moveset that not only pays tribute to UT (nearly every attack is a reference of some kind), but one that makes sense for the (Pacifist) character. Basically, it's just Frisk having a good time, for lack of a better term- using random joke items and movements to attack. Smash isn't a fight for glory in-universe, they do it to have a good time. What I'm getting at is- not every character has to be in this to attempt to brutally murder their opponent.

 

[KillerCage]

But how would you implement the pacifist play style? Undertale goes out of it's way to emotionally punish you if you go about a genocide route. And I don't see how a character built around dodging would work with the playstyle that Smash has.

Obviously we can't doubt that Sakurai might think of something. But he does like to honour the core mechanics of the games that the characters come from, and the memorable parts of the battles in Undertale are the unique minigames for dodging and being able to win without fighting, neither of which would fit in seamlessly.

If BrawlFan1 could create a moveset for Frisk that incorporates both the Pacifist Route and Genocide Route in a balanced manor, I think Sakurai could produce a similar moveset as well.

 

[yeet123]

I feel like everyone hypes up Undertale's chances so much. This Fighters Pass is purposefully filled with megaton bomb character announcements. Undertale would be cool but not nearly as big a deal as Persona, DQ, or Banjo.

One could say that Banjo was a pick thats niche af, but he's a part of Nintendo History (bigger than Undertale) and has been demanded since Melee.

You see characters from giant companies that are staples of gaming: Resident Evil, Crash, Doom, Tekken, Ninja Gaiden, Tales Of, Halo... I just dont see how Undertale has something even close to a shot of getting onto this pass.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I feel like everyone hypes up Undertale's chances so much. This Fighters Pass is purposefully filled with megaton bomb character announcements. Undertale would be cool but not nearly as big a deal as Persona, DQ, or Banjo.

One could say that Banjo was a pick thats niche af, but he's a part of Nintendo History (bigger than Undertale) and has been demanded since Melee.

You see characters from giant companies that are staples of gaming: Resident Evil, Crash, Doom, Tekken, Ninja Gaiden, Tales Of, Halo... I just dont see how Undertale has something even close to a shot of getting onto this pass.

Remember, they say they don't save the best for last.

 

[Will]

I feel like everyone hypes up Undertale's chances so much. This Fighters Pass is purposefully filled with megaton bomb character announcements. Undertale would be cool but not nearly as big a deal as Persona, DQ, or Banjo.

One could say that Banjo was a pick thats niche af, but he's a part of Nintendo History (bigger than Undertale) and has been demanded since Melee.

You see characters from giant companies that are staples of gaming: Resident Evil, Crash, Doom, Tekken, Ninja Gaiden, Tales Of, Halo... I just dont see how Undertale has something even close to a shot of getting onto this pass.

Undertale and Deltarune are popular games birthed within this decade. It's unfair to compare its own legacy to other franchisees who have lived for over 2 decades at the least when Toby Fox's baby has barely gone past 5 years. It's critically acclaimed and an ongoing series. I don't see any problems with it at all, the people, especially Japan, are eating it up. There shouldn't be anything stopping its inclusion just because there are other things.

If you don't like Undertale, just go out and say it. The Fighter's Pass isn't exactly going to appease every single individual on the planet.

 

[Deleted member]

Raditz and Zarbon won't turn all of his accurate leaks into "guesses", and we're talking about a lot of stuff; needless to say, his last good calls were just a few days before EVO came out. I don't know why you guys still latch on to that in the hopes to make Vergeben look like a fraud.

You mean Guilty Gear which was announced by Daisuke himself last year, telling everyone that he was working on a new Guilty Gear title.

And Janemba who was leaked ages ago by Microsoft and everyone already knew was coming?

I’m sorry, but maybe if you don’t follow these games closely you’ll find yourself surprised, but I didn’t need Vergeben to tell me either of those things, as I was already fully expecting both for an EVO reveal since Kid Goku dropped back in May.

A lot of his more “accurate leaks” are either just guesses, or him repeating stuff that everyone already knows. Like Janemba for example.

Like, look at his calls for the Guilty Gear characters, Bedwoman, and Robo Ky. We ALL already know both are coming. Robo Ky was teased in the story mode for Revelator, and Bedman dies. Meaning they’re gonna need a new character to take over his function, most likely at least. Both of those are very safe guesses for new characters. Same for the “Flamboyant man witg long hair” he’s obviously talking about Testament, who had concept art of him officially released back in Xrd, is one of the primary antagonists of the franchise, and incredibly popular and requested. Like, if you were to ask any Guilty Gear fans to name three characters they’d predict to return, they’d probably say those three, lol. I would have been more impressed if he’d mentioned the black guy from the trailer, but he didn’t. Where’s the “ and a new character who’s a black samurai with a badass mechanical oni mask.” Nothing.

It’s all safe guesses.

The only real leak in his post is Haomaru in SC6, but that’s only cause I don’t follow that game very closely personally. I’m sure if I followed it as much as I do ASW games, I’d be able to see through the bull**** there just as well as I can with DBFZ and Guilty Gear. Instead surprised he actually didn’t mention the Senran characters in Cross Tag Battle. Here, let me be a master leaker like Vergeben for you.


“My sources tell me Asuka from Senran Kagura will be joining Yumi in Cross Tag Battle.”

Protip: they were both datamined ages ago.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

I feel like everyone hypes up Undertale's chances so much. This Fighters Pass is purposefully filled with megaton bomb character announcements. Undertale would be cool but not nearly as big a deal as Persona, DQ, or Banjo.

One could say that Banjo was a pick thats niche af, but he's a part of Nintendo History (bigger than Undertale) and has been demanded since Melee.

You see characters from giant companies that are staples of gaming: Resident Evil, Crash, Doom, Tekken, Ninja Gaiden, Tales Of, Halo... I just dont see how Undertale has something even close to a shot of getting onto this pass.

I honestly disagree with the idea that Undertale isn't a big deal. It's one of the most critically acclaimed games of this decade and it's crazy popular by indie game standards. It's so ingrained in internet culture that you'd be hard pressed to find someone that doesn't know who Sans is or what Megalovania sounds like. Hell it even has a sequel/spiritual successor in the form of Deltarune, so it's an established franchise at this point. Just because Undertale doesn't have the same legacy as 20+ year old AAA franchises such as Resident Evil or Doom doesn't mean that it didn't leave any kind of an impact on the gaming landscape. With how huge of a success Undertale became despite its small development team, that couldn't be farther from the truth. And if we're talking just in terms of sales, Undertale (around 3.5 million units on Steam alone) managed to sell more than the best selling entries of Persona (2.7 million) and Tales of (1.6 million). I get not having a preference towards Undertale, but trying to say it's not a gaming staple is just untrue

 

[yeet123]

I honestly disagree with the idea that Undertale isn't a big deal. It's one of the most critically acclaimed games of this decade and it's crazy popular by indie game standards. It's so ingrained in internet culture that you'd be hard pressed to find someone that doesn't know who Sans is or what Megalovania sounds like. Hell it even has a sequel/spiritual successor in the form of Deltarune, so it's an established franchise at this point. Just because Undertale doesn't have the same legacy as 20+ year old AAA franchises such as Resident Evil or Doom doesn't mean that it didn't leave any kind of an impact on the gaming landscape. With how huge of a success Undertale became despite its small development team, that couldn't be farther from the truth. And if we're talking just in terms of sales, Undertale (around 3.5 million units on Steam alone) managed to sell more than the best selling entries of Persona (2.7 million) and Tales of (1.6 million). I get not having a preference towards Undertale, but trying to say it's not a gaming staple is just untrue

But thats the thing: Undertale is popular amongst communities like us. People who converse about gaming in forums, etc. Mainstream masses don't have any clue what Undertale is or who Frisk or Sans is.

I stand by my statement: Undertale isn't a big enough deal to get on to this Fighters Pass. Not saying it shouldnt be included in Smash in the future, but you're playing yourself if you think it's a large enough/impactful enough series to get a slot when compared to the rest of Nintendo's choices.

 

[TheCJBrine]

But thats the thing: Undertale is popular amongst communities like us. People who converse about gaming in forums, etc. Mainstream masses don't have any clue what Undertale is or who Frisk or Sans is.

I stand by my statement: Undertale isn't a big enough deal to get on to this Fighters Pass. Not saying it shouldnt be included in Smash in the future, but you're playing yourself if you think it's a large enough/impactful enough series to get a slot when compared to the rest of Nintendo's choices.

I can name a number of characters/franchises in Smash most of Nintendo's audience only knows because of Smash, including Persona.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

But thats the thing: Undertale is popular amongst communities like us. People who converse about gaming in forums, etc. Mainstream masses don't have any clue what Undertale is or who Frisk or Sans is.

I stand by my statement: Undertale isn't a big enough deal to get on to this Fighters Pass. Not saying it shouldnt be included in Smash in the future, but you're playing yourself if you think it's a large enough/impactful enough series to get a slot when compared to the rest of Nintendo's choices.

The same thing could literally be said about most of the speculated characters. Your average joe most likely isn't going to know who Lloyd Irving or Ryu Hayabusa is either, but anyone who spends at least some time on larger social media platforms like Twitter or Tumblr has probably seen Sans memes or Megalovania edits at least once. Hell, the only other currently speculated characters I could truly call "mainstream" are Crash Bandicoot, Doomguy, and the Resident Evil characters. If we're going by that criteria, then the choices for potential newcomers are incredibly limited

 

[yeet123]

I can name a number of characters/franchises in Smash most of Nintendo's audience only knows because of Smash, including Persona.

Yeah but none of those characters were sold as DLC. EDIT: misread the persona part. Persona as a franchise was very popular; for more so than something like Undertale or Shantae. Don't forget that it has ties to Shin Megami as well.

The same thing could literally be said about most of the speculated characters. Your average joe most likely isn't going to know who Lloyd Irving or Ryu Hayabusa is either, but anyone who spends at least some time on larger social media platforms like Twitter or Tumblr has probably seen Sans memes or Megalovania edits at least once. Hell, the only other currently speculated characters I could truly call "mainstream" are Crash Bandicoot and the Resident Evil characters. If we're going by that criteria, then the choices for potential newcomers are incredibly limited

I agree. If "the average Joe" wont know who Lloyd or Ryu Hayabusa is, then what shot does Undertale have?

Ppl also seem to forget that this "disappointing last character" trend was when Sakurai chose the lineups. As we all know, Nintendo chose this Pass' lineup. Look at which characters/franchises have already been selected; how can you come to a conclusion that Nintendo would choose a niche (but yes, popular) Indie rep for a slot? No dice.

 

[Will]

I agree. If "the average Joe" wont know who Lloyd or Ryu Hayabusa is, then what shot does Undertale have?

The average joe doesn't know Persona 5, Banjo-Kazooie, or probably most heroes from Dragon Quest either. they're specifically epic gamer oriented. The mainstream audience has no ****ing clue who they are, either because they're M rated and a console exclusive (Joker), have been dormant for at least a decade (Banjo), or a particular hemisphere hasn't had any real exposure or popularity for something (Dragon Quest).

And it's like you said.

But thats the thing: Undertale is popular amongst communities like us.

I'd post the picture of Patrick saying "makes sense to me" to Man Ray but Warchamp7 decided to let the site crash and burn.

 

[ze9]

An Undertale character (be it Frisk or Sans) would easily be on par with Banjo and Joker in terms of recognizability, and, in the West probably above the DQ Heroes. Even Doomguy would be around the same level, I think.
They're all the kind of franchises that you don't know if you've never been into gaming, but that are kinda ABC if you are.

 

[yeet123]

The average joe doesn't know Persona 5, Banjo-Kazooie, or probably most heroes from Dragon Quest either. they're specifically epic gamer oriented. The mainstream audience has no ****ing clue who they are, either because they're M rated and a console exclusive (Joker), have been dormant for at least a decade (Banjo), or a particular hemisphere hasn't had any real exposure or popularity for something (Dragon Quest).

This is so untrue. Banjo has been demanded by pretty much everyone since Melee, and also had the largest reaction to any character reveal in Smash. Nintendo even stated how surprised they were at the large reaction Banjo got.

DQ is top 3 most popular JRPGS of all time. Don't even try to say that the average joe hasnt heard of DQ.

You're playing yourself if you think no one knows who Joker is. They literally revealed him during one of the biggest nights in the Gaming Industry.... cmon now

 

[Dust319]

The same thing could literally be said about most of the speculated characters. Your average joe most likely isn't going to know who Lloyd Irving or Ryu Hayabusa is either, but anyone who spends at least some time on larger social media platforms like Twitter or Tumblr has probably seen Sans memes or Megalovania edits at least once. Hell, the only other currently speculated characters I could truly call "mainstream" are Crash Bandicoot, Doomguy, and the Resident Evil characters. If we're going by that criteria, then the choices for potential newcomers are incredibly limited

I’d take it a step further as Crash and Doomguy are franchises that are western in origin, A characteristic that only Banjo has in common with them.
I’m starting to think the remaining DLC characters will be Japanese origin characters like the rest of the cast.

That being said, I’m pretty sure at least a fair number of people would recognize Hayabusa as a Ninja Gaiden or Dead or Alive character, even if they couldn’t necessarily tell you His name.

 

[yeet123]

An Undertale character (be it Frisk or Sans) would easily be on par with Banjo and Joker in terms of recognizability, and, in the West probably above the DQ Heroes. Even Doomguy would be around the same level, I think.
They're all the kind of franchises that you don't know if you've never been into gaming, but that are kinda ABC if you are.

Everyone seems to forget now that Banjo has been one of, if not THE, character(s) with the highest fan demand since Smash 64. You can't compare him to Undertale

 

[TheCJBrine]

Yeah but none of those characters were sold as DLC. EDIT: misread the persona part. Persona as a franchise was very popular; for more so than something like Undertale or Shantae. Don't forget that it has ties to Shin Megami as well.

I'm not sure the average joe knows Shin Megami either. A lot of people certainly, but not huge mainstream audiences outside of hardcore fans if we're gonna assume Banjo is on the same level...and I'm a Banjo fan.

 

[Deleted member]

It's interesting to see people talk about Undertale and not mention that Frisk's name is a well known spoiler since it's revealed fairly late into the game. Smash may be inconsistent with spoilers, but since Hero is just called Hero instead of just the names/titles of the DQ protags, what would Frisk be named if it can't be Frisk? The Human? Fallen Child?

 

[Will]

This is so untrue. Banjo has been demanded by pretty much everyone since Melee, and also had the largest reaction to any character reveal in Smash. Nintendo even stated how surprised they were at the large reaction Banjo got.

Yeah, by core Smash fans, not average joe billy bob from upstate new york. That's why I said

have been dormant for at least a decade (Banjo)

DQ is top 3 most popular JRPGS of all time. Don't even try to say that the average joe hasnt heard of DQ.

in America at least, which is why i said

or a particular hemisphere hasn't had any real exposure or popularity for something (Dragon Quest).

You're playing yourself if you think no one knows who Joker is.

lol i had no idea who he was. i knew persona, i knew yu, but i didn't even know persona had a 5th game released in the PS3 era. i don't keep up with playstation because i don't own a playstation.

am i not your average joe? am i not worthy?

 

[ze9]

Everyone seems to forget now that Banjo has been one of, if not THE, character(s) with the highest fan demand since Smash 64. You can't compare him to Undertale

I know all about Banjo and Kazooie. I've been waiting for them the whole time.
Undertale obviously doesn't have the same fan demand for Smash as them (though, for real, who does?), but in terms of recognizability, as franchises they're pretty much on the same league (and I'd say stuff like Persona, Dragon Quest, Castlevania, Metroid, Starfox is around there too).

Me, for example, I had no idea who Joker was before he was revealed. While I had already played Undertale and talked about it quite a lot both online and in real life.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Everyone seems to forget now that Banjo has been one of, if not THE, character(s) with the highest fan demand since Smash 64. You can't compare him to Undertale

Banjo's demand was non-existent after the Rare buy-out and didn't become a thing until the Phil Spencer tweet back during the ballot. Sure he was one of the most requested characters this time around, but that wasn't the case during Brawl and Smash 4 before the DLC.

It's interesting to see people talk about Undertale and not mention that Frisk's name is a well known spoiler since it's revealed fairly late into the game. Smash may be inconsistent with spoilers, but since Hero is just called Hero instead of just the names/titles of the DQ protags, what would Frisk be named if it can't be Frisk? The Human? Fallen Child?

I don't think Sakurai and the team would care about a spoiler like this very much, after all Fiora is part of Shulk's Final Smash. Not to mention that Lucina's entire existence is a spoiler in itself. Frisk being the name of the child isn't as big of a spoiler as some other stuff from Undertale. And besides, Undertale is almost four years olds now so I think it's fair game now.

 

[ze9]

I hope they name him Frisk.
You thought Hero, as a name, was a bit too much on the generic side? Well, give your welcome to Human...
Kinda sick of generic names, to be honest.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I think the problem is we all have different ideas of what's mainstream.

Some of us accept that maybe someone won't know who Shulk is whereas others have flashbacks to parents calling every Pokemon "a Sonic".

 

[OrpheusTelos]

To be fair, the child being named Frisk has been in "it was his sled" territory along with the Sans fight for a long time. Even if you don't know the context of the events, most people are at least aware that they happen due to how prevalent the game is on the internet. Also, didn't Groove Coaster spoil some major Undertale fights for its DLC?

Spoiler: Mild Undertale Spoilers

I'm not even just talking about Sans. Some of the lesser known twists such as Omega Flowey and Undyne the Undying were in there

If something like that could get away with those kinds of major spoilers, then I'm sure Smash could get away with namedropping Frisk

 

[ze9]

I guess there's no problem in naming him Frisk. It's not like it's a big reveal, per se.
Someone who's not familiar with Undertale would probably just think "ah, so that's what his default name is" and leave it at that.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Just thought I’d throw in my opinion...

Of the three DLC characters so far, the only one I KNEW was Banjo-Kazooie. I had no idea who Joker or Hero (or “insert Hero’s actual name here”) were before they were announced, though I did know each of the three series (Persona, DQ, and Banjo-Kazooie) existed.

As for characters such as Ryu Hayabusa, a Resident Evil rep (Leon and Jill), etc. ... Ya I don’t know who they are either. I looked up both of those characters just to see what they even looked like. (Yes, I don’t really play too many game series.)

Also, ya if Undertale got a rep (which I don’t want, but that aside), Nintendo would give said character their actual name. Most people who have had any contact with Undertale, be it through playing the game or memes, know Sans and Frisk. And some know Papyrus too.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

If Hero's anything to judge by, then I'd assume they'd name Frisk "Fallen Child", though it'd honestly sound a bit awkward in the announcer's voice. But yeah, Smash usually hasn't bee too sensitive about spoilers, and if Undertale did get into Smash I can see Sakurai pulling concepts from all across the game, especially for Frisk's stage and music, along with the weapons you can pick up. There could even be alts based on the weird armor you can pick up such as the Tutu.

I'm still wondering, when it comes to Bethesda reps how come all of the attention has gravitated towards Doomguy? With other companies with likely candidates the attention is pretty even (for example, between Lloyd and Heihachi), whereas here it's honestly very skewed. I know why Fallout isn't getting much consideration, but why exactly are people sleeping so much on The Elder Scrolls? It's Bethesda's home grown franchise (while Doom was acquired), it's 25 years old as of this year, and has had good integration with Bethesda and Nintendo's collaboration (Skyrim featured prominently in Switch reveal trailer, BoTW stuff in Skyrim Switch along with Skyward Sword-esque motion control options, Skyrim serving as major inspiration for BoTW, etc), whereas for Doom it's mainly ports, and ports that aren't Nintendo exclusive (from what I read they're multiplatform releases; though I do know that a lot of them were originally SNES games). Doom does have a more consistent and iconic character, but I'm just curious as too people's opinions and why Bethesda speculation has gravitated so much towards one character, and why there's so little discussion regarding The Elder Scrolls. If Bethesda's gonna represent themselves as a company, I don't know why they'd choose an IP they acquired over one they made themselves and that made them so successful in the first place.

 

[Nap_]

Bethesda got some nice games under its wing, but nothing as big as Doom, which is iconic. Invented the FPSs and blah blah blah. Gaming history. The calls are not for a Bethesda fighter, are for Doom. The thing is... Bethesda is the owner. It will happen too if Ubysoft or EA were the actual owners of Doom.
There are some factors for the growing demand of Doom Slayer (games in Nintendo, good relationships between companies, impossible barriers broken with Ultimate...). At this point, his inclusion wont be totally unexpected.

 

[RileyXY1]

And not only that, Microsoft chose a character they acquired (Banjo & Kazooie). I can see Doomguy being included, especially considering the legacy of the original games and the hype for Doom Eternal.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

If Hero's anything to judge by, then I'd assume they'd name Frisk "Fallen Child", though it'd honestly sound a bit awkward in the announcer's voice. But yeah, Smash usually hasn't bee too sensitive about spoilers, and if Undertale did get into Smash I can see Sakurai pulling concepts from all across the game, especially for Frisk's stage and music, along with the weapons you can pick up. There could even be alts based on the weird armor you can pick up such as the Tutu.

I'm still wondering, when it comes to Bethesda reps how come all of the attention has gravitated towards Doomguy? With other companies with likely candidates the attention is pretty even (for example, between Lloyd and Heihachi), whereas here it's honestly very skewed. I know why Fallout isn't getting much consideration, but why exactly are people sleeping so much on The Elder Scrolls? It's Bethesda's home grown franchise (while Doom was acquired), it's 25 years old as of this year, and has had good integration with Bethesda and Nintendo's collaboration (Skyrim featured prominently in Switch reveal trailer, BoTW stuff in Skyrim Switch along with Skyward Sword-esque motion control options, Skyrim serving as major inspiration for BoTW, etc), whereas for Doom it's mainly ports, and ports that aren't Nintendo exclusive (from what I read they're multiplatform releases; though I do know that a lot of them were originally SNES games). Doom does have a more consistent and iconic character, but I'm just curious as too people's opinions and why Bethesda speculation has gravitated so much towards one character, and why there's so little discussion regarding The Elder Scrolls. If Bethesda's gonna represent themselves as a company, I don't know why they'd choose an IP they acquired over one they made themselves and that made them so successful in the first place.

I think TES is a dark horse series that could get in. Skyrim was the first game to be shown on the Switch, after all! I personally think Doom has a better chamce either way since is reach/influence is much larger than that of TES, what with popularizing the FPS genre that has taken western gaming by the balls for over 20 years now. And im sure if Bethesda got asked to have the Doom liscence for Smash, they wouldnt say "Nah, how about TES?". After all, Microsoft was ok with allowing Banjo in smash, which is just a series they acquired as opposed to a series they grew themselves for Xbox like Halo, so I dont think Bethesda would operate much differently, Todd be damned.

 

[RileyXY1]

Doom Eternal is also coming out, and I can see Doomguy being added as a "promo pick" in order to promote that game.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

And not only that, Microsoft chose a character they acquired (Banjo & Kazooie). I can see Doomguy being included, especially considering the legacy of the original games and the hype for Doom Eternal.

I think the big difference here is that Banjo has been requested ever since the 64 days and was basically a Nintendo character for the entire N64 era, while Bethesda as a whole wasn't really supported for a newcomer until the Switch came around. Banjo feels more like the exception rather than the rule.

Another point is that Japan loves TES (of course, it's not DQ or Tales levels, but still super popular), while Doom barely has a presence there (though admittingly Eternal is coming out in Japan so we'll see how it does there, and it does have a small community of fans, though nowhere near as much as TES).

 

[RileyXY1]

I think the big difference here is that Banjo has been requested ever since the 64 days and was basically a Nintendo character for the entire N64 era, while Bethesda as a whole wasn't really supported for a newcomer until the Switch came around. Banjo feels more like the exception rather than the rule.

TES just can't compete with Doom. Doom helped popularize the FPS genre and the concept of game modding, and even today people are still actively modding the game. The franchise was also rebooted in 2016 and it was very successful, and there's a followup game that Smash can easily promote by adding Doomguy. Sakurai himself also mentioned John Carmack when he listed off influential game devs, so he's aware of how big the franchise is.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

TES just can't compete with Doom. Doom helped popularize the FPS genre and the concept of game modding, and even today people are still actively modding the game. The franchise was also rebooted in 2016 and it was very successful, and there's a followup game that Smash can easily promote by adding Doomguy. Sakurai himself also mentioned John Carmack when he listed off influential game devs, so he's aware of how big the franchise is.

Same can be said for TES, while Oblivion modding is basically dead, Morrowind and Skyrim modding are still going extremely strong and lots of new stuf is coming out every year (plus there will be an explosion once Beyond Skyrim starts releasing full provinces, but that's another story). Furthermore, TES (especially Morrowind at the time) did for Western RPGs a lot of what Doom did for FPS games, and even Skyrim alone sold over three times as much as the entire Doom franchise (even Oblivion alone sold more!).

 

[KillerCage]

I'm still wondering, when it comes to Bethesda reps how come all of the attention has gravitated towards Doomguy? With other companies with likely candidates the attention is pretty even (for example, between Lloyd and Heihachi), whereas here it's honestly very skewed. I know why Fallout isn't getting much consideration, but why exactly are people sleeping so much on The Elder Scrolls? It's Bethesda's home grown franchise (while Doom was acquired), it's 25 years old as of this year, and has had good integration with Bethesda and Nintendo's collaboration (Skyrim featured prominently in Switch reveal trailer, BoTW stuff in Skyrim Switch along with Skyward Sword-esque motion control options, Skyrim serving as major inspiration for BoTW, etc), whereas for Doom it's mainly ports, and ports that aren't Nintendo exclusive (from what I read they're multiplatform releases; though I do know that a lot of them were originally SNES games). Doom does have a more consistent and iconic character, but I'm just curious as too people's opinions and why Bethesda speculation has gravitated so much towards one character, and why there's so little discussion regarding The Elder Scrolls. If Bethesda's gonna represent themselves as a company, I don't know why they'd choose an IP they acquired over one they made themselves and that made them so successful in the first place.

The one thing Doom has that neither The Elder Scrolls nor Fallout have is a strong relationship with Nintendo. Beside the SNES port of Doom 1 and the Switch port of Doom 2016, the best port of Doom 2 was the GBA. We also just a Switch port of Doom 3 which was exclusive to PC and the original Xbox. Compared to Doom, TES has only one title on a Nintendo system and that was Skyrim for the Switch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Fallout has NEVER been on a Nintendo console.

 

[UberPyro64]

Doom is way more influential than Elder Scrolls. There is no question.

 

[Wunderwaft]

The one thing Doom has that neither The Elder Scrolls nor Fallout have is a strong relationship with Nintendo. Beside the SNES port of Doom 1 and the Switch port of Doom 2016, the best port of Doom 2 was the GBA. We also just a Switch port of Doom 3 which was exclusive to PC and the original Xbox. Compared to Doom, TES has only one title on a Nintendo system and that was Skyrim for the Switch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Fallout has NEVER been on a Nintendo console.

There is Fallout Shelter for the Switch.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

The one thing Doom has that neither The Elder Scrolls nor Fallout have is a strong relationship with Nintendo. Beside the SNES port of Doom 1 and the Switch port of Doom 2016, the best port of Doom 2 was the GBA. We also just a Switch port of Doom 3 which was exclusive to PC and the original Xbox. Compared to Doom, TES has only one title on a Nintendo system and that was Skyrim for the Switch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Fallout has NEVER been on a Nintendo console.

Skyrim for Switch was heavily marketed in the reveal trailer for the Switch, Switchrim had BoTW items, Amiibo support, and Skyward Sword style motion controls, BoTW took great inspiration from Skyrim, there's clearly some collaboration here. Meanwhile Doom mainly has just regular ports of its' games, hell the Doom 3 port was released on Xbone and PS4 at the same time and wasn't Switch exclusive. It's more of a "this is for everybody" rather than "this is for Nintendo".

The Switch will also be getting Elder Scrolls Blades later this year.

 

[Us3inMN]

Okay, so I just pre-ordered DOOM Eternal today (I got the deluxe edition because why the f**k not). I got it for the Switch, but wanted the collectors edition (which the Switch does not have). So, my guess is instead of having a collectors edition for Switch, they make up for it by putting Doomguy in Smash.

Also, with the deluxe edition of DOOM Eternal comes a skin for the Revenant enemy called the DOOT skin lol.

 

[blackghost]

a few things

1. while its fine for people to suggest what they PERSONALLY were or weren't aware of DQ is the second biggest franchise in JRPGs hero is not a random no matter what the vocal internet says.

2. DQ is so big in japan its release is virtually a holiday because people skip or have skipped the work or school day to play through in the fact that toriyoama has drawn some of them and you have a ridiculously recognizable character.

3. I'm sorry but we western fans need to stop acting so entitled. every character is not equal in popularity globally japan isn't big on guns and gore hence why characters like doomguy and Mortal kombat seem like longshots to me to be hopeful for. Evenmetroid historically doesnt sell well in japan.

4. characters that JUST became big that are not Nintendo owned (splatoon) or nintendo produced (bayonetta) are a long shot. While no one is suggesting these characters will appeal to everyone these DLCs will be icons. I don't care about Banjo at all i got my first console after he died as a franchise but i know what he means to the industry.

5. while its hard to impossible to predict these characters in hindsight they have all made sense. at least imo. So i do expect that pattern to hold

6. indie games are going uphill to get in shantae has the strongest claim imo to be relevant as an indie for what 2 decades across multiple systems and games that is impressive. I think her claim is stronger than Sans or undertale because longevity matters the characters that are third party get into smash based on longevity. look at the third party list: the newest protagonist of a persona game (huge franchise), the queen of action games (bayo) both in reviews and games, the original fighting game characters (ken and ryu), top two rpg franchises, one of the three major 3-d platform characters.