Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[RetroBro]

Yes, it actually is.

Either it's a first party company and you would literally gain nothing from changing plans and switching characters as you'd still go through the entire process of making one and planning for one.

Or, it's a 3rd party company and Nintendo PAID FOR THE LICENSE, AND ALREADY PROMISED THEM MONEY. And they still gain absolutely nothing from switching characters.

I would sooner believe the pass was cancelled wholesale then to believe they would randomly switch out a character mid-development. The logic of "bad thing begets bad thing" doesn't always hold up.

Umm. It's not 100% impossible for companies to resolve broken contracts if they were to occur. Sakurai has spoken about the difficulties of including characters, finishing characters, and also difficulties working with other companies. To believe that nothing could go wrong is naïve. This is granting the fact that we're assuming the DLC will have 3rd party characters. If they're all 1st party characters, my point stands that he could easily decide that a character simply isn't working and cut development on the said character.

Also in my previous posts I never said Nintendo gains anything from switching characters - completely useless statement.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Alrighty then, let's see how my gut feelings changed based on this:

• We already have Min Min
• Rex will be swapped out for Nia as Sakurai and MonoSoft bond over being can people
• The Monster Hunter will be slaughtered by the Deviljho mid-reveal, because **** you.
• ZUN, feeling generous, decides to let Mima appear in another game for once. Alternatively, Clownpiece, just to make you suffer.
• You wanted Isaac? Too bad, Sveta. She basically took the spotlight in Dark Dawn anyways.
• Instead of Adol or Estelle, Falcom gives us... Actually, didn't the director give credence to both? Estelle's supposedly his favorite, but on a separate occasion he said he'd choose Adol because he thought his sword would fit in with the Smash cast (Playin' with fire today, eh?). Can someone bring that up for me, please?

Why yes, this is secretly trying to spark more Falcom conversation. Why do you ask?

For Falcom: Rean, just because

“Can person” think u meant cat person? Anyway, it’s not Nia time either, it’s ZEKENATOR TIME! EYE OF SHINING JUSTIIIIIIIIIICE!!!

alternatively it’s Elma as she, like Sakurai, is a cat person

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean, it looks better than the school picture I have.

;-;

I need a new one.

Everyone hates their high school picture. Their older ones look super young in comparison to how they look now because they're maturing physically, and their newer ones are still old enough that their style has changed since the photo was taken because they're still figuring that out.

Me, I didn't really change my style, but I do let my hair grow out and, shave it all, then let the cycle repeat. My picture was taken when I had just gotten a haircut so I look like a bald moose with big 'ol ears. Pretty sure the light was shining off of my head too.

 

[Deleted member]

Everyone hates their high school picture. Their older ones look super young in comparison to how they look now because they're maturing physically, and their newer ones are still old enough that their style has changed since the photo was taken because they're still figuring that out.

Me, I didn't really change my style, but I do let my hair grow out and, shave it all, then let the cycle repeat. My picture was taken when I had little just gotten a haircut so I look like a bald moose with big 'ol ears. Pretty sure the light was shining off of my head too.

Also my school photo looks so masculine, REEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

;-;

 

[Wunderwaft]

For Falcom: Rean, just because

I can't wait for the gorillian hahas he will have in his voice clips

Seriously, how did Cold Steel manage to do it?

 

[cashregister9]

Alrighty then, let's see how my gut feelings changed based on this:

• We already have Min Min
• Rex will be swapped out for Nia as Sakurai and MonoSoft bond over being can people
• The Monster Hunter will be slaughtered by the Deviljho mid-reveal, because **** you.
• ZUN, feeling generous, decides to let Mima appear in another game for once. Alternatively, Clownpiece, just to make you suffer.
• You wanted Isaac? Too bad, Sveta. She basically took the spotlight in Dark Dawn anyways.
• Instead of Adol or Estelle, Falcom gives us... Actually, didn't the director give credence to both? Estelle's supposedly his favorite, but on a separate occasion he said he'd choose Adol because he thought his sword would fit in with the Smash cast (Playin' with fire today, eh?). Can someone bring that up for me, please?

Why yes, this is secretly trying to spark more Falcom conversation. Why do you ask?

Falcom: Kou Tokisaka because they saw how popular Persona is and decided to add a character from their most persona adjacent series (Tokyo Xanadu)

 

[Arcanir]

Lucario and Mewtwo are bad examples because they are basically "what's the popular Pokemon that has a movie tie in"
And I fell like that's no better then a Starter pick

I feel it's a bit disingenuous to ignore Mewtwo just because it had a movie. It came out three years before Melee's release and two before it was likely chosen for the roster, so there was a good gap between both that would've lessened the promotional aspect of it. Additionally, it has always been a popular Pokemon even outside of the movie, so it would've been a good choice even if it had no promotional value to market.

Lucario is more iffy as the movie came out just before the roster was chosen (though I'm not sure when exactly he was chosen, could've been a delayed pick like Ike), but to his credit he did turn out to be a very popular character and unlike examples like Manaphy it didn't fade out immediately after his spotlight was gone. So he did have staying power, at least as far as his generation was concerned.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Pikachu was picked because mascot.

Jigglypuff was picked because of anime relevance and popularity.

Mewtwo was picked for it's own sheer popularity.

Pichu was originally added as a joke.

Lucario was added because of his sheer popularity.

Charizard stuck around when hisn companions didn't because of it's popularity and newfound relevance with it's Mega Forms.

Sakurai thought Greninja was a fascinating Pokrmon with loads of potential and more or less chose him personally.

And I forget why Incineroar was added.

For the most part it's been about "what's hot" with Pokemon newcomers, but even then there's some exceptions.

 

[Cosmic77]

Mewtwo is arguably the most iconic Legendary Pokémon, so I don't think it's fair to say the movie was literally the only reason why he was added. I'm sure it helped its image, but there were very few Pokémon at the time who were as iconic as Mewtwo.

Lucario was luck. A somewhat popular new Pokémon that Sakurai took a chance on. Game Freak decided to cash in on that popularity, and its been pushed ever since.

 

[Wunderwaft]

And I forget why Incineroar was added.

IIRC Sakurai added Incineroar because he wanted a wrestling grappler archetype character in Smash and he thought Incineroar was perfect for this.

 

[SharkLord]

I can't wait for the gorillian hahas he will have in his voice clips

Seriously, how did Cold Steel manage to do it?

So basically, the recording booths for Trails games just sound like this:

Pikachu was picked because mascot.

Jigglypuff was picked because of anime relevance and popularity.

Mewtwo was picked for it's own sheer popularity.

Pichu was originally added as a joke.

Lucario was added because of his sheer popularity.

Charizard stuck around when hisn companions didn't because of it's popularity and newfound relevance with it's Mega Forms.

Sakurai thought Greninja was a fascinating Pokrmon with loads of potential and more or less chose him personally.

And I forget why Incineroar was added.

For the most part it's been about "what's hot" with Pokemon newcomers, but even then there's some exceptions.

Incineroar was added for the same reason as Greninja, and because Sakurai just wanted a wrester character.

 

[Teeb147]

Pikachu was picked because mascot.

Jigglypuff was picked because of anime relevance and popularity.

Mewtwo was picked for it's own sheer popularity.

Pichu was originally added as a joke.

Lucario was added because of his sheer popularity.

Charizard stuck around when hisn companions didn't because of it's popularity and newfound relevance with it's Mega Forms.

Sakurai thought Greninja was a fascinating Pokrmon with loads of potential and more or less chose him personally.

And I forget why Incineroar was added.

For the most part it's been about "what's hot" with Pokemon newcomers, but even then there's some exceptions.

Greninja was added because they wanted a pokemon from the new generation and he wasn't sure which one would pick up but had to make a choice.
Incineroar was again for one from the new generation and he picked it because he wanted a wrestler intead of regular fighter

 

[SKX31]

Ironically, they've been completely ignoring all of their actual long term problems. They only pull a 180 sometimes, and not necessarily when it's required.

I've not been paying attention to TPC / Game Freak much at all, so what would you argue are their long term problems?

As a K. Rool main...I now officially vow to defy this.

Min Min will not decide all after all...

That's the Spirit! I'm no expert myself, but I've written down some thoughts:

Spoiler: Some gameplay things to consider on the Rool vs. Min Min matchup

Trying to hug the stage as much as possible when recovering might be the best bet. Since the window to attack ledge-grabs is rather small - even for Min Min.

Outside of that, The Krown trades with Min Min's arms attacks (unless the ARM attacks first). The Belly Armor will help up close. The best bet might be to get Min Min offstage (Backthrow, F-Tilt, etc.) and then stifle her recovery with Blunderbuss / the Vacuum / Armor.

Jigglypuff was picked because of anime relevance and popularity.

Never forget that Jigglypuff produced its own hit singles:

So yup, massive reason why it was added.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I feel it's a bit disingenuous to ignore Mewtwo just because it had a movie. It came out three years before Melee's release and two before it was likely chosen for the roster, so there was a good gap between both that would've lessened the promotional aspect of it.

Mewtwo was considered for 64 though.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Pichu was originally added as a joke.

Pichu was a gen 2 mascot. It being easier to make than whatever rep you'd prefer and having self-damage doesn't mean it wasn't heavily pushed.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Jigglypuff was picked because of anime relevance and popularity.

Technically, but her similarities to Kirby also made her pretty easy to program in comparison to most other potential cannidates

 

[Arcanir]

Mewtwo was considered for 64 though.

Doesn't mean they had to pick it for Melee as we've had a number of characters who missed their initial window of opportunity and never got a second shot, especially if the movie was the only thing that mattered. Plus, again it has always been popular, so the movie promotion was secondary to it.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Is there a source to the claim that Jigglypuff's inclusion had anything to do with the anime? I'm not calling anyone a liar, but I see that thrown around a lot with no source.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

That's the Spirit! I'm no expert myself, but I've written down some thoughts:

Spoiler: Some gameplay things to consider on the Rool vs. Min Min matchup

Trying to hug the stage as much as possible when recovering might be the best bet. Since the window to attack ledge-grabs is rather small - even for Min Min.

Outside of that, The Krown trades with Min Min's arms attacks (unless the ARM attacks first). The Belly Armor will help up close. The best bet might be to get Min Min offstage (Backthrow, F-Tilt, etc.) and then stifle her recovery with Blunderbuss / the Vacuum / Armor.

I like this advice, and I'll very much use it. Thank you!

Never forget that Jigglypuff produced its own hit singles:

So yup, massive reason why it was added.

Her time in the spotlight may have faded, but her popularity lives on.

Technically, but her similarities to Kirby also made her pretty easy to program in comparison to most other potential cannidates

I'm just glad she made it at all and has always stuck around since.

There was a lot of talk about how she supposedly could be cut from Smash 4 back in 2013-2014, largely because she was low priority in previous games (or at least in Brawl, in which only a small handful of low priority characters in the database made the final cut) and I was really happy when that debate came to an end.

 

[Dark Bagel]

I'm fine with a Pokemon, honestly. Series representation ratios don't really bother me, and I really would love to have SwSh stuff in Smash, so I'd be down.

I'm down for a Pokemon, because those DAMN H U M A N S have had it too good for too long. It's time the roster steers in a different direction, and it's downright reprehensible how much we've let this nonsense continue thus far.

Look at this. Look at this gobbledegook.

Perfect eyes.

Perfect HAIR.

PERFECT BONE STRUCTURE.

ARRGGHHHHH, IT MAKES ME SICK. SICK TO MY STOMACH THAT WE LET THIS OVERTLY CLEAR BIAS TOWARDS HUMANS FOR SOME REASON PERSIST FOR SO LONG. Sakurai, it's your own fault for propogating this b i a s, and it's especially your fault for making them so. Damn. HAWT.

How dare you.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm down for a Pokemon, because those DAMN H U M A N S have had it too good for too long. It's time the roster steers in a different direction, and it's downright reprehensible how much we've let this nonsense continue this far.

If we keep going in the direction those DAMN H U M A N S are gonna win.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I won't lie though I probably said it before but I'd be down for Cynthia. She'd make interesting for 3 Pokemon notably Garchomp.

Plus would love to have a shark in the game now that we have a crocodile.

 

[Koopaul]

So do we still consider the 7-11 ad as a factor as to when there'll be a fighter reveal. The ad goes down on October 4th, but I see people saying the fighter won't be revealed until after then. Why do some people think that's the case?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So do we still consider the 7-11 ad as a factor as to when there'll be a fighter reveal. The ad goes down on October 4th, but I see people saying the fighter won't be revealed until after then. Why do some people think that's the case?

Riley brought up the possibility of Pikmin 3 being shown before it. Combine with the possibility of Crown Tundra being next week.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I know I have a liking for the weirdest characters, but I'm so happy Conker is still getting some love. Fangamer had a collab with Rare with lots of new Conker products! Even if the guy doesn't wind up getting a spirit or anything in the end, I'm glad he's still recognized and not forgotten.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Riley brought up the possibility of Pikmin 3 being shown before it. Combine with the possibility of Crown Tundra being next week.

i doubt they'd show off Pikmin 3 Deluxe again. unlike Origami King, this is a port and they already described the new features. after all TMS Encore didn't get any additional coverage between its announcement and release

 

[Mushroomguy12]

If we want to talk about adding more non humans I got a candidate from a series that could actually use another rep.

Don’t care what y’all say, Dixie Kong is the most deserving Nintendo character that needs to be in Smash pic.twitter.com/J6zNWwLF8y

— T.r.O.i.D (@McTroid) September 24, 2020

 

[TheBeastHimself]

If we want to talk about adding more non humans I got a candidate from a series that could actually use another rep.

Don’t care what y’all say, Dixie Kong is the most deserving Nintendo character that needs to be in Smash pic.twitter.com/J6zNWwLF8y

— T.r.O.i.D (@McTroid) September 24, 2020

I really want to see Dixie at some point, I'm not sure if this Fighter's Pass is her time though... I think she's in a similar situation to Bandana Waddle Dee where, as someone previously mentioned, she's like the last jigsaw piece to fully cement a series' representation.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

i doubt they'd show off Pikmin 3 Deluxe again. unlike Origami King, this is a port and they already described the new features. after all TMS Encore didn't get any additional coverage between its announcement and release

Hope you're right. The sooner FP7 gets revealed, the sooner this drought ends.

But then again, we probably go back to square one after talking about said character and wondering who is next...

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I just hope the next character is able to satisfy most of us for the long haul if we're going to have to wait months again for the next reveal.

 

[cashregister9]

We did get 2 """Major"""" announcements this week (Kirby and Animal Crossing) and there are pretty much only 2 more things that they could announce Pokemon and Smash it is probably to much of a stretch to expect Smash tonight but maybe we could be getting 2 announcements next week though

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Eh, it'd also help if he didn't have the exact same face as Nia (minus the fangs). Saito's just really not a good character designer.



IDK, I still think it looks stupid. He looks like he's cosplaying a spaceship in that outfit.

Lmao you reminded me of a guy screeching at me for my 'unreasonable hatred' when I said the same thing about Saito by saying his Celica artwork is ****ing awful

Umm. It's not 100% impossible for companies to resolve broken contracts if they were to occur. Sakurai has spoken about the difficulties of including characters, finishing characters, and also difficulties working with other companies. To believe that nothing could go wrong is naïve. This is granting the fact that we're assuming the DLC will have 3rd party characters. If they're all 1st party characters, my point stands that he could easily decide that a character simply isn't working and cut development on the said character.

Also in my previous posts I never said Nintendo gains anything from switching characters - completely useless statement.

Bro the contracts and stuff are already signed, not to mention changing a character while already working on multiple characters at a time would still mean having to go back to the drawing board, meaning that's time and money wasted on something we'll never get, this dev team has been working on Smash for a decade, for something to screw up development, they'd have to lose all progress and go bankrupt overnight or something. The 'companies being difficult to work with' statement involves royalties and any restrictions, and Sakurai's not immature enough to ragequit an entire character he already got the approval for just because some aspect got rejected by the higher ups. I'd say it's fearmongering to expect any of this to screw up that badly as it'd need to be catastrophic

They just have the voice actors do their best to match them. It doesn't always produce the best results though, listen to how awkwardly Malos speaks sometimes in his battle against Rex at the beginning of the game.

I'd sooner blame the voice direction, Skye Bennet told us that they got zero voice direction and one shot recordings, I think she also said they didn't even get context for the lines but I could be mixing that up with a different game and I'm too lazy to find the part she said that in her XB2 stream

 

[Strong-Arm]

regardless of who we get FP8 wont come out till 2021

 

[Wunderwaft]

regardless of who we get FP8 wont come out till 2021

I don't think even the most optimistic chap seriously thinks FP8 will come out this year lol

 

[SNEKeater]

Monolith is working on BotW2. XC3/XDE could only get a Metroid Prime 4-esque announcement.

Monolith has different teams. They were working on BotW and XC2 at the same time, for example. They're supposed to be developing something new if I'm not mistaken. And obviously Xenoblade 3 is gonna happen eventually.

Alrighty then, let's see how my gut feelings changed based on this:

• We already have Min Min
• Rex will be swapped out for Nia as Sakurai and MonoSoft bond over being cat people
• The Monster Hunter will be slaughtered by the Deviljho mid-reveal, because **** you.
• ZUN, feeling generous, decides to let Mima appear in another game for once. Alternatively, Clownpiece, just to make you suffer.
• You wanted Isaac? Too bad, Sveta. She basically took the spotlight in Dark Dawn anyways.
• Instead of Adol or Estelle, Falcom gives us... Actually, didn't the director give credence to both? Estelle's supposedly his favorite, but on a separate occasion he said he'd choose Adol because he thought his sword would fit in with the Smash cast (Playin' with fire today, eh?). Can someone bring that up for me, please?

Why yes, this is secretly trying to spark more Falcom conversation. Why do you ask?

If I remeber correctly Falcom's president said once that he would like to see Rean from Trails of Cold Steel in case Falcom gets a character in Smash.
Not like I'm the expert here but in the scenario where Nintendo decides to add a Falcom character, I don't think Sakurai would go with Rean, but who knows.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm looking forward to Sakurai making Nia the Xenoblade rep and stating the reason why she was chosen is that "Everyone is the protagonist" in Xenoblade.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I'm looking forward to Sakurai making Nia the Xenoblade rep and stating the reason why she was chosen is that "Everyone is the protagonist" in Xenoblade.

I mean...

I wouldn't say no to a cat girl lol

 

[Koopaul]

Age of Calamity is being shown tomorrow. And the Tokyo Game Show ends on Sunday. And Super Mario Bros. 35 will be releasing on October 1st.

I'm suspecting the fighter will be revealed on the 28th or 29th or 30th.

 

[Guynamednelson]

And obviously Xenoblade 3 is gonna happen eventually.

Eventually, yes. Just not in time to screw Rex out of a chance to be in FP2.

 

[MooMew64]

I'm looking forward to Sakurai making Nia the Xenoblade rep and stating the reason why she was chosen is that "Everyone is the protagonist" in Xenoblade.

Y'all saying this like getting Nia would be a bad thing.