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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Dinoman96

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I think Toad has the same problem with Waluigi in that neither of them have any real defined or interesting abilities that would make them stand out in Smash. It's no coincidence that nearly all of their fan movesets tend to just be stuff like "he can drive a Mario Kart! he can use a tennis racket/golf club! he can use random Mario powerups!" that honestly just all feels really forced.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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He could certainly be a candidate for Smash 6, though. Especially since Toad's a well-known long runner. It's not like Sakurai sees consistency as holy (See Chrom and Robin's Final Smash).
This is especially likely considering that the species now has a recognizable character spearheading it in Captain Toad.

The trouble with importance in context of character appearances and roles is that it's so subjective to what is and isn't such on an individual level.

For example (and I know I'll get opposition for this) I somewhat believe Bandana Dee only was important in two games on arguably sketchy bases. While Return to Dreamland and Star Allies have somewhat questionable logic to needing Bandana Dee in some ways, they still used him decently and therefore his presences were valid. The rest of his appearances either don't live up to what they should be or seem wholly unnecessary. Keep in mind I still have some nostalgia for him, but I don't think his presence has aged all that well. But again, that's subjective. I can totally see the logic behind the deserving nature of Dee's potential inclusion, and perhaps in terms of recognition, I may even admit he's the closest right now to at least making sense for a spot in Smash. But this mentality may not be the one used by the Smash developers, and probably isn't just due to how they usually handle Kirby.

I know it appears I'm getting ahead of myself, but I feel a lot of people don't recognize subjectivity and take everything at the most commonly placed value. Apparently that's supposed to be the best way to speculate, but it seems so restricting.
I'm gonna have to hard disagree on that. A lot of his appearances may tend toward the minor side as seen in Kirby Triple Deluxe, or just in unimportant games in the series (see, all of the Deluxe Minigame games), but that doesn't really get rid of his prominence. Like, to compare him to Impa for a moment, they both appear in pretty much every game in their respective series at one point. Bandana Waddle Dee has never really been a major player in the story like Impa has, but Impa has only done it once, and when she isn't part of the story's focus, she's that one NPC you talk to once, and then don't really have a reason to go back to. Meanwhile, Bandana Waddle Dee appears 2-3 times a world with a pick-me-up, or is a major part of the game's menu, or something of the sort. You're always running into him, which really cements him as a very notable character in the series, whereas with Impa, people notice her mostly because recurring characters are rare within her series. There's like, her and Beedle, and The Skull Kid that one time.

Also he's cute and Spearcopter go nyooooooooom
If/when they do add him, I really hope the Spearcopter is as fun as it is in the Kirby series. It probably won't be because characters with multiple jumps generally have terrible recoveries out of necessity, but I hope it will be.
 

TheBeastHimself

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I think Toad has the same problem with Waluigi in that neither of them have any real defined or interesting abilities that would make them stand out in Smash. It's no coincidence that nearly all of their fan movesets tend to just be stuff like "he can drive a Mario Kart! he can use a tennis racket/golf club! he can use random Mario powerups!" that honestly just all feels really forced.
I'd rather see Toadsworth than a standard Toad if I'm being completely honest. He can whack people with his cane which would be hilarious, but he also has some moves to pull from games. A very limited amount of source material, but there are abilities like the Toadsworth Twist from Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time. He'd be a hilarious WTF character in my book, even though his inclusion would likely piss off a lot of people.

Also, I just love his design:
 
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I think Toad has the same problem with Waluigi in that neither of them have any real defined or interesting abilities that would make them stand out in Smash. It's no coincidence that nearly all of their fan movesets tend to just be stuff like "he can drive a Mario Kart! he can use a tennis racket/golf club! he can use random Mario powerups!" that honestly just all feels really forced.
I always thought that Toad should play similarly to Pichu, but without the lightning stuff. Just a short speedster that can combo you all day. It wouldn't really stand out that much, but it would fit the character a lot.
 

Among Waddle Dees

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I'm gonna have to hard disagree on that. A lot of his appearances may tend toward the minor side as seen in Kirby Triple Deluxe, or just in unimportant games in the series (see, all of the Deluxe Minigame games), but that doesn't really get rid of his prominence. Like, to compare him to Impa for a moment, they both appear in pretty much every game in their respective series at one point. Bandana Waddle Dee has never really been a major player in the story like Impa has, but Impa has only done it once, and when she isn't part of the story's focus, she's that one NPC you talk to once, and then don't really have a reason to go back to. Meanwhile, Bandana Waddle Dee appears 2-3 times a world with a pick-me-up, or is a major part of the game's menu, or something of the sort. You're always running into him, which really cements him as a very notable character in the series, whereas with Impa, people notice her mostly because recurring characters are rare within her series. There's like, her and Beedle, and The Skull Kid that one time.
If we're going by the amount of screentime he has, I think there's an argument he could be in by now, and I did bring that up. But is that a good enough reason to include him, especially at this point in time, with the waning but omnipresent hype centered around Smash? I won't say no this time, but I will say the answer isn't necessarily yes, because it's subjective. That was more the point I was trying to make.
 

SharkLord

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I know some arguments in BWD's favor may not be the strongest, but I just think he'd be a lot of fun to play as, and I think in modern times, he has earned his place as apart of the main Kirby cast. That's not something that can be said about Marx, Magalor, or Dark Matter because their appearances are more scattered and not usually in a leading role.

But if I'm looking at DLC as realistically as possible, I just can't see him having a huge chance for FP2. I'd give him a 25% chance, but that's not worth much because I find percentages to be arbitrary. It seems DLC is more prioritized on getting big names out there, or repping new franchises, or promoting games. BWD, to me, is the perfect base roster choice and it's a shame he didn't make it this time around for that.

I feel the same way about Dixie Kong. I'd love to see her make it into Smash, but at the same time, she feels like a better choice suited for the base roster. I'd say Kirby and DK are pretty well off with their respective trios of characters, but I certainly would not be against either of them getting in. BWD and Dixie would just be more or less extras, putting sprinkles and strawberries on top of an already perfect cake.

I also hope nobody reads into this post too much as some sort of attack against their characters because that is not my intention! I'm looking at this situation objectively, emotions aside, and that's just where my thoughts are at right now. Let's hope I'm dead wrong, I'd love to see one of these two on FP2.
No, no, you're fine. That's pretty much what I was talking about earlier, in fact; Supporting characters don't seem to be given precedence in the DLC because they aren't as closely tied to the games as the main protagonist themselves, which is why it tends to lean towards unrepresented games, series, or companies.
If/when they do add him, I really hope the Spearcopter is as fun as it is in the Kirby series. It probably won't be because characters with multiple jumps generally have terrible recoveries out of necessity, but I hope it will be.
To be fair, the existing Kirby reps have multiple jumps because they can fly. Everyone who can't fly in Kirby has to get those really awkward air squats to keep up with those who can, so I'd imagine Bandana Dee would need to Waddle Copter to make up for his lack of inherent flight.
 

Wunderwaft

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I think Toad has the same problem with Waluigi in that neither of them have any real defined or interesting abilities that would make them stand out in Smash. It's no coincidence that nearly all of their fan movesets tend to just be stuff like "he can drive a Mario Kart! he can use a tennis racket/golf club! he can use random Mario powerups!" that honestly just all feels really forced.
In Waluigi's defense you can make the argument that he would use mechanics from the sports games since he originated from there and the majority of his appearances come from there. Toad? Not so much. He appears in the sports games but his main appearances aren't centered around them like Waluigi.
 

SharkLord

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In Waluigi's defense you can make the argument that he would use mechanics from the sports games since he originated from there and the majority of his appearances come from there. Toad? Not so much. He appears in the sports games but his main appearances aren't centered around them like Waluigi.
Even if Waluigi doesn't have much to go off of in canon, he can just yoink stuff from Luigi and Wario. Luigi is more or less a reflection of Mario with weird properties, while a lot of Wario's moves are odd and twisted variants of Mario's attacks. As a result, I think it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to give Waluigi weird and twisted version of Luigi's already bizarre attacks to make him the most awkward and cursed characters in the game. Give him some truly mind-bending moves like a Fireball that goes backwards instead of forwards, or a Green Missile that turns him into a human boomerang instead of a straightforward rocket. That's what I mean by weird ****.
 
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Dutch Raikuna

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So guys thought I'd ask here if there has been new news on the mill about if we are getting anything.

I've been out of the loop the past week on this.
 

N3ON

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I think Toad has the same problem with Waluigi in that neither of them have any real defined or interesting abilities that would make them stand out in Smash. It's no coincidence that nearly all of their fan movesets tend to just be stuff like "he can drive a Mario Kart! he can use a tennis racket/golf club! he can use random Mario powerups!" that honestly just all feels really forced.
Before Rosalina got in people just thought she'd be a riff off of Peach.

Before Bowser Jr. got in, no one was expecting him to arrive in the Koopa Clown Car.

And then there's Piranha Plant, who is literally just a plant in a pot.

I don't understand why people continue to underestimate the ability Sakurai and the Smash team have to cull together movesets. Just because you or others might be challenged to create a moveset, doesn't mean those who do it for a living have the same hindrances.
 
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TheBeastHimself

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I HATE TOADS

Aren't these lads supposed to be Peach's guards? Yeah, they do a real good job with that. Like when Shadow Mario first appeared in Sunshine, running towards Peach at a slow speed with a lot of distance between him and the princess. And they just stood there! They could've had time to have a cup of tea or shine their shoes in the time it took Shadow Mario to finally get to Peach.

And then in Galaxy, I was collecting the 100 purple coins in a desert galaxy. This one Toad had the audacity to tell me "there's no purple coins in the quicksand" when I was already at the end of the level. Like yeah, no **** Toad!

(But I'll cut them some slack, because Captain Toad and his crew in Galaxy were extremely helpful at times, except FOR THAT STUPID YELLOW TOAD ALWAYS SLEEPING!!!!!!)
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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I'd rather see Toadsworth than a standard Toad if I'm being completely honest. He can whack people with his cane which would be hilarious, but he also has some moves to pull from games. A very limited amount of source material, but there are abilities like the Toadsworth Twist from Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time. He'd be a hilarious WTF character in my book, even though his inclusion would likely piss off a lot of people.
I'd rather Captain Toad in Super Smash Bros., but I would love to see Toadsworth period. Perhaps we could get the best of both worlds and have give Captain Toad some alternate costumes for both Toadette, and Toadsworth.

Oh wait, then it'd be uneven...

I think Toad has the same problem with Waluigi in that neither of them have any real defined or interesting abilities that would make them stand out in Smash. It's no coincidence that nearly all of their fan movesets tend to just be stuff like "he can drive a Mario Kart! he can use a tennis racket/golf club! he can use random Mario powerups!" that honestly just all feels really forced.
I disagree with the idea that a Toad using powerups in their moveset would be at all forced, especially since the existing Super Mario cast doesn't really. Aside from the games in which powerups don't exist, they've always been able to use them same as the Mario brothers. So since the Mario brothers can't really do much with them mechanically since Mario needs to be simple and Luigi needs to have a solid connection to Mario in terms of game feel, why not give them to a Toad character?
 

Perkilator

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I HATE TOADS

Aren't these lads supposed to be Peach's guards? Yeah, they do a real good job with that. Like when Shadow Mario first appeared in Sunshine, running towards Peach at a slow speed with a lot of distance between him and the princess. And they just stood there! They could've had time to have a cup of tea or shine their shoes in the time it took Shadow Mario to finally get to Peach.

And then in Galaxy, I was collecting the 100 purple coins in a desert galaxy. This one Toad had the audacity to tell me "there's no purple coins in the quicksand" when I was already at the end of the level. Like yeah, no **** Toad!

(But I'll cut them some slack, because Captain Toad and his crew in Galaxy were extremely helpful at times, except FOR THAT STUPID YELLOW TOAD ALWAYS SLEEPING!!!!!!)
Eff Toads. All my homies hate Toads.
 

Rie Sonomura

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question

if BWD DID get into smash. would they rename him to Bandana Dee or Bandee or smth? Bandana Waddle Dee is too long, I'd think
 

Mushroomguy12

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In Waluigi's defense you can make the argument that he would use mechanics from the sports games since he originated from there and the majority of his appearances come from there. Toad? Not so much. He appears in the sports games but his main appearances aren't centered around them like Waluigi.
Waluigi needs to have a dance pad in his moveset like in Project M.

 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Eff Toads. All my homies hate Toads.
-Literally every Paper Mario fan ever.​
question

if BWD DID get into smash. would they rename him to Bandana Dee or Bandee or smth? Bandana Waddle Dee is too long, I'd think
Probably not. They might have to squish his nameplate a bit on the character select screen, but it wouldn't matter for voice clips, and Bandana Waddle Dee isn't that much longer than Mr. Game & Watch.

For Comparison:

Bandana Waddle Dee
Mr. Game & Watch
 

SharkLord

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So guys thought I'd ask here if there has been new news on the mill about if we are getting anything.

I've been out of the loop the past week on this.
Welp, let's review:
  • There's that old LoL leak from back in April that hasn't been confirmed or denied yet.
  • There's been rumors of a Golden Sun remake, strengthened by a new, non-renewal trademark that started up in 2018, got denied twice, and was finally passed this year.
  • A potential Zelda All-Stars has been tossed around, but I don't have any idea on if it's rumored or not
  • I think I heard of a SMRPG remake, but I don't know where it's from or how credible it is (PLEASE don't drag the Geno thread into this just to**** on them, we've had enough of that for good long while)
  • Klonoa Encore's trademark was paid for, I think? It's not Nintendo but I don't care, anything Klonoa is noteworthy.
  • There's been some stuff hinting towards a CP7 reveal soon, but I'm sure there's people who can explain that better than I could
 

N3ON

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question

if BWD DID get into smash. would they rename him to Bandana Dee or Bandee or smth? Bandana Waddle Dee is too long, I'd think
They should've given that character an actual name a long time ago, it would've helped mitigate all those comparisons to other generic enemies his fans are less than thrilled with.

But to answer your question, no, probably not. BWD is what he's referred to as.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Welp, let's review:
  • There's that old LoL leak from back in April that hasn't been confirmed or denied yet.
  • There's been rumors of a Golden Sun remake, strengthened by a new, non-renewal trademark that started up in 2018, got denied twice, and was finally passed this year.
  • A potential Zelda All-Stars has been tossed around, but I don't have any idea on if it's rumored or not
  • I think I heard of a SMRPG remake, but I don't know where it's from or how credible it is (PLEASE don't drag the Geno thread into this just to**** on them, we've had enough of that for good long while)
  • Klonoa Encore's trademark was paid for, I think? It's not Nintendo but I don't care, anything Klonoa is noteworthy.
  • There's been some stuff hinting towards a CP7 reveal soon, but I'm sure there's people who can explain that better than I could
don't forget the F-Zero JP site being updated, or SOMETHING related to it. NOT counting the twitter account which was revealed to be a troll posting NSFW stuff
 

Guybrush20X6

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question

if BWD DID get into smash. would they rename him to Bandana Dee or Bandee or smth? Bandana Waddle Dee is too long, I'd think
There's a few routes.

1. Stick to Bandanna Waddle Dee
2. Shorten to Bandanna Dee to emphasise the character
3. Shorten to Waddle Dee to represent the whole species through him.
 

Dutch Raikuna

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Welp, let's review:
  • There's that old LoL leak from back in April that hasn't been confirmed or denied yet.
  • There's been rumors of a Golden Sun remake, strengthened by a new, non-renewal trademark that started up in 2018, got denied twice, and was finally passed this year.
  • A potential Zelda All-Stars has been tossed around, but I don't have any idea on if it's rumored or not
  • I think I heard of a SMRPG remake, but I don't know where it's from or how credible it is (PLEASE don't drag the Geno thread into this just to**** on them, we've had enough of that for good long while)
  • Klonoa Encore's trademark was paid for, I think? It's not Nintendo but I don't care, anything Klonoa is noteworthy.
  • There's been some stuff hinting towards a CP7 reveal soon, but I'm sure there's people who can explain that better than I could
Heard about the 7-11 rumour thing but that's the only CP7 thoughts. Any other hints on that outside Amiibo theory?
 

TheBeastHimself

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Yeah I would've preferred the little guy to have a bit more of a unique name, because I like to write out a character's name and it's awkward to say "BWD." But, maybe that's a sign from the universe of how lazy I am.
 

MooMew64

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Heard about the 7-11 rumour thing but that's the only CP7 thoughts. Any other hints on that outside Amiibo theory?
There's a gap in the post order in the Smash news bulletin that has 9 or so posts that were skipped. This potentially means that a fighter announcement was skipped and we're getting content that would have come later right now.

Prevailing theory ATM is CP7 has potentially been ready to go for a while now, but for whatever reason is being held back. The 7-Eleven ad and the missing posts totalling up to the amount a newcomer would get are part of why a reveal could be imminent.
 

SharkLord

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Yeah I would've preferred the little guy to have a bit more of a unique name, because I like to write out a character's name and it's awkward to say "BWD." But, maybe that's a sign from the universe of how lazy I am.
Apparently he was going to be called "Bandee," but was left as Bandana Waddle Dee to represent the whole species. At least, I think that's how it went...
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Yeah I would've preferred the little guy to have a bit more of a unique name, because I like to write out a character's name and it's awkward to say "BWD." But, maybe that's a sign from the universe of how lazy I am.
It does take longer to say than Rosalina & Luma due to linguistics reasons that I'm sure someone that is not me can explain. As far as how that'd affect Super Smash Bros., I'd say it would at most give him a personal victory theme so that they have enough time to play the "Bandana Waddle Dee!" and "Wins!" quotes before the big pwoosh!.



Side note: if they wanted to change This game's winner is: [X CHARACTER] to [X CHARACTER] wins, why did they not merge the two lines so it sounds less disjointed...oh, right. Then they couldn't reuse the clips from the previous game...Ok then I have another question: Why did they just add "Jr." to the end of Bowser's name call voice clip and call it a day? Would it have killed Xander if they requested him to say Bowser Jr. in one take?

Apparently he was going to be called "Bandee," but was left as Bandana Waddle Dee to represent the whole species. At least, I think that's how it went...
This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but I'm glad they didn't call him Bandee if this was the case. I really dislike the kiddy names certain characters have like Buggzy (though this one mostly bugs me because I could have sworn his name was originally Sid Cada, which was amusing to me).
 
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Strife

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There's a few routes.

1. Stick to Bandanna Waddle Dee
2. Shorten to Bandanna Dee to emphasise the character
3. Shorten to Waddle Dee to represent the whole species through him.
Bandana Waddle Dee deservers it more, but I hope Magalor gets in instead. Mechanically he would be a lot more interesting.
 

DarthEnderX

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While I understand the sentiment- each character we discuss is incapable of actually “deserving” a spot in Smash. They have no will of their own to do anything to “earn” a spot. Anything they are in is set up by developers and game designers, meaning that if anybody “deserved” anything, it would be game designers, directors, etc.
Granted, but...you do understand that saying "Hayabusa deserves to be in Smash" is a lot easier to say than "The designers and directors of the Ninja Gaiden franchise and it's spinoff games deserve to have one of the characters they created in Smash", right? And, like, any reasonable person should understand, without having to be told, that the former is just shorthand for the latter.
 

Shroob

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Heard about the 7-11 rumour thing but that's the only CP7 thoughts. Any other hints on that outside Amiibo theory?
Not currently no.

As others have said, we're currently missing anywhere between 9-12 announcements(the exact number is hard to pin down) on the news site, meaning that the current Spirit event was meant to come out after the new character, but otherwise, it's just one big waiting game right now.
 

JCKirbs

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Apparently he was going to be called "Bandee," but was left as Bandana Waddle Dee to represent the whole species. At least, I think that's how it went...
Actually, I think he was supposed to be called "Bandy" which does still sound like "Bandee".

This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but I'm glad they didn't call him Bandee if this was the case. I really dislike the kiddy names certain characters have like Buggzy (though this one mostly bugs me because I could have sworn his name was originally Sid Cada, which was amusing to me).
Perhaps, at least "Bandy" would've been more fun to say if that actually turned out to be his actual name right from the start.
 

Among Waddle Dees

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I really dislike the kiddy names certain characters have like Buggzy (though this one mostly bugs me because I could have sworn his name was originally Sid Cada, which was amusing to me).
There's a user on this site with that name and a Bugzzy profile, that's likely the connection. Also, "bugs me"? Was that intentional?
 

Perkilator

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The :ultjoker::ulthero: are out now in Japan. I still wanna believe we’ll get CP7 between now and the time that 7-11 goes down.
 

Strife

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Granted, but...you do understand that saying "Hayabusa deserves to be in Smash" is a lot easier to say than "The designers and directors of the Ninja Gaiden franchise and it's spinoff games deserve to have one of the characters they created in Smash", right? And, like, any reasonable person should understand, without having to be told, that the former is just shorthand for the latter.
Its a bit more than just the developers and directors though, its also the fan-base and the prestige of the legacy as a whole

They'll be a team, attacking in unison. Y'all aren't ready for Magolor sending bandana Dee's spears through a portal and directly into your face.
Lol, nah they need to keep the Duo thing for Sora & Akira Howard
 
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TheShiningAbsol

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They'll be a team, attacking in unison. Y'all aren't ready for Magolor sending bandana Dee's spears through a portal and directly into your face.
This makes me think though, a Final Smash for BWD that has all of the Dream Friends from Star Allies help would be amazing. Especially if it picked a random friend every time and the animation was unique for each one. Not sure they'd go to that much effort though.
 
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