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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Strife

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I don't recall ever hearing that.
Go watch the MinMin reveal video


You're gonna need to be able to source something like this, because not being able to do so is how misinfo spreads.
See my response above.

A couple things:

An ARMS character (not any character in particular) was only considered for base, not planned

And It wasn't due to the fighting style clashing, it was soley due to ARMS releasing too late. Ultimate's roster was already decided on at that point. Similar situation Rex had
It may have been an Arms character not MinMin. Sakurai didn't say a word about Arms release date, it was all about the fighting style.

Sakurai never said an ARMS character was planned in the base game.

What he said was that he learned of the game too late for it to be considered for base game.

It's a timing issue, not a problem of "figuring it out"
This was all said in the MinMin reveal video. I'm surprised at how misinformed people in this thread are.
 
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D

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Byleth hate was overwhelmingly strong even with the knowledge that we were getting six additional characters after their release, so I doubt their inclusion would've been accepted much better during the first pass when details of a second wave either didn't exist or the number of characters it would actually add was unknown at the time.

And making Byleth one of the later characters in Vol. 2 probably would've soured even more people on them.
True. I think Byleth's placing was for the best. I was pretty happy with Byleth's release, because I used to be a Three Houses fan.

I do have one question though. Why does Nintendo like adding in Fire Emblem characters? We have 8 now, which is pretty interesting.
 
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SharkLord

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So we want new characters to discuss, eh?
ahem
Tell me more about Falcom. We discussed it earlier in the day but that didn't get very far off the ground, so now I'm drudging it up and I will continue to do so until we properly discuss Adol and Estelle.
 

Rie Sonomura

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So we want new characters to discuss, eh?
ahem
Tell me more about Falcom. We discussed it earlier in the day but that didn't get very far off the ground, so now I'm drudging it up and I will continue to do so until we properly discuss Adol and Estelle.
You also got Rean from Trails of Cold Steel
 

Guybrush20X6

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Latest rumor is that Microsoft is going to buy SEGA.

The evidence seems centred on Sega games doing well on Games Pass and a blue and white XBOX controller.
Glad to know we aren't the only mad ones online.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I never seen the appeal of dead or alive.
Bewbs. :troll:

So we want new characters to discuss, eh?
ahem
Tell me more about Falcom. We discussed it earlier in the day but that didn't get very far off the ground, so now I'm drudging it up and I will continue to do so until we properly discuss Adol and Estelle.
Gimme a pitch on what they could bring to the table. I can't talk about them if I don't know anything about them.
 

chocolatejr9

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Also note he didn’t explicitly name Rex or Spring Man (or even Min Min), he said just “ARMS” and “Xenoblade Chronicles 2”. In general.
To be fair, Rex is the only one who makes sense as a XC2 rep.
So we want new characters to discuss, eh?
ahem
Tell me more about Falcom. We discussed it earlier in the day but that didn't get very far off the ground, so now I'm drudging it up and I will continue to do so until we properly discuss Adol and Estelle.
But I've never played a Falcom game...

But, um... Dragalia Lost's 2nd Anniversary is coming up. Can we talk about how Euden being added to Smash would be a great way to celebrate? Or do we not do that?
 

Rie Sonomura

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To be fair, Rex is the only one who makes sense as a XC2 rep.

But I've never played a Falcom game...

But, um... Dragalia Lost's 2nd Anniversary is coming up. Can we talk about how Euden being added to Smash would be a great way to celebrate? Or do we not do that?
There IS the Torna expansion. Not counting on it, but Lora or Addam would be a welcome left field surprise
 

Idon

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Go watch the MinMin reveal video
I have. As far as the only mention of her difficulty in being implemented goes, it's this:
1600818579356.png 1600818600808.png

Maybe I'm missing something, but this doesn't exactly state, implicitly or otherwise, that it was this reason that caused her to be added late and not making it to base game. 2 years late at that.
 
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Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
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smash speculation is mostly built around echo chambers

this is largely why no one talked about Terry or Byleth or even Min min really being in the game so far

people echo chamber omega hard with the same couple characters honestly. Like dante has become the next doomguy and were probably not going to get any but maybe one of the super talked about chars this pass

smash is p bad about discussing the same few picks then being blindsided when sakurai is like "yeah ive played more games than you lmao"
I actually disagree here, in terms of how characters are treated. I do agree that in some cases the Smash fanbase doesn't do well with new opinions or anything outside of popularity.

Pretty sure I've seen plenty more folks in this very thread say, "Dante isn't getting in" than people actually supporting Dante. What I find interesting is that Crash Bandicoot is a character who is "Talked about" but nobody says Crash Bandicoot isn't happening. Gee, I wonder why?
Wild how people are still only looking at Nintendo characters with promotional potential after getting 7 DLC characters where, at most, 2 could be said to be promoting anything.
The reason people are looking at characters as you're suggesting is that, when you look specifically at 1st parties, that's what we've gotten.

Now, I wouldn't say that any non-promotional 1st party can't get in- that would be a kinda weird thing to argue. But 3rd parties are inherently different compared to 1st parties. One is something coming directly from Nintendo, while the other is an entire universe that may or may not be close to Nintendo. To the mainstream, it's a bigger deal.

It's harder to argue that Min Min is as much of a promo pick as Corrin or Byleth (though I'd say she is to an extent) but to simply ignore that fact I think is a bit odd. Two of the 3 newcomer DLC picks are promotional, which I don't think is pure coincidence. I think it's also worth noting that when looking at 1st party DLC speculation, it was largely based on "popularity", which pointed to Waluigi, BWD, or Isaac. Spring Man was seen as a gate to further upgrades, and while Min Min opened things up for spirits, the jury is still out on Assist Trophies. If ATs are off the table, that shoots down Waluigi or Isaac, leaving us mainly picks like Rex or Bandanna Waddle Dee, neither of which is promotional.
-
While I myself once though getting Joker insinuated an entirely 3rd party pass, I think there's a few things that should be considered before we suddenly go on with this assumption that the entire pass is 1st party because "Min Min sets the tone".

1) Did Joker set the tone for "3rd parties" or "unique gameplay ideas"? After Joker, each character continues that trend regardless of parent company- Min Min included.

2) I would actually argue that if Min Min was meant to get people into the hype of FP2...she didn't really do a great job. There's not much chatter to be had about FP2 outside of Smash forums, and I'd argue some folks have lost some interest based on the last few picks. Now, I myself enjoy Byleth and Min Min, but there are many out there that seek the "didn't see that coming" pick. Nintendo picks are more expected by the mainstream, believe it or not, but not as wanted.

3) Prior to the Min Min/ARMS announcement, much of fan speculation on 1st parties either didn't focus on ARMS whatsoever, and was on upgrades. I feel this is the blindspot with 1st parties- much of the conversation was on "popularity" and while Min Min is "popular" she wasn't quite a part of that whole discussion.

4) With how spaced out the reveals are thus far, it's obviously different from Volume 1. Joker set a tone, sure. But he was followed up with another character shortly after, and brought much of the conversation of "who's next?" in plenty of places. I may be wrong, but I'm not seeing the same buzz this time. It isn't to say that Min Min was a bad pick- far from it. Simply put, I think the spacing between picks has made the "first pick" a wee bit less important at this point when all it will take is a bombshell pick to bring all the attention back based on the time period between reveals.

If the vision of the pass was to do a bunch of first party upgrades, would it not be a clear, fan want like Waluigi or Isaac? I would argue it would be if we're going with the line of logic that "they're doing upgrades/1st parties that appeal to fans".

I'm not really in a position to make any predictions about Volume 2 and to be honest Nintendo has put me to sleep with how long the time seems between reveals. I'm starting back at school and have started Dark Souls, so I'm already busy. I personally believe we're getting at least 2 3rd party picks, and can see at least another first party pick or two. I think going to any particular extreme with this pass is getting ahead of ourselves, and I think ignoring precedent we like OR hate is a bad idea.

I do think the next pick will tell us more, but I think the only pattern to consider consistent throughout most of the DLC is "new and unique gameplay" which, surprise, doesn't narrow down the possibilities!
 

SKX31

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Huh. Neat! Dunno why I couldn't find it then since I found Zero Suit Samus's pretty easily.
It was rather hidden away - that became apparent when I tried to Image Search it. One would have to go to the 8th April 2014 Smash Direct (19:19 - the one that infamously teased Ridley's Stage Boss status) or the old GameXplain Vid.

Latest rumor is that Microsoft is going to buy SEGA.

The evidence seems centred on Sega games doing well on Games Pass and a blue and white XBOX controller.
Glad to know we aren't the only mad ones online.
Regardless of whether it's true or not... hoo boy am I not going to enjoy the conversation (or the implications) either way. The possible prospect of Microsoft getting SEGA would be rather odd to say the least (not least since Microsoft became a major console manufacturer around the time SEGA went third party).
 
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Freduardo

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it’s all pirahna plant from here. Henchmen for the remaining picks.

Mettool. Motobug. Moblin. Space Pirate. And I don’t know... Primid.
 

cashregister9

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Latest rumor is that Microsoft is going to buy SEGA.

The evidence seems centred on Sega games doing well on Games Pass and a blue and white XBOX controller.
Glad to know we aren't the only mad ones online.
What year is it 2012??? :yeahboi:

This rumor crops up every other year it seems like. There is no basis for it and ignores the fact that SEGA is a publicly traded company that is more than Sonic team and owns a large amount of the Japanese Casino and Arcade industry
 

Captain Shwampy

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So we want new characters to discuss, eh?
ahem
Tell me more about Falcom. We discussed it earlier in the day but that didn't get very far off the ground, so now I'm drudging it up and I will continue to do so until we properly discuss Adol and Estelle.
I want the guy from Brandish
 

TheBeastHimself

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You know what grinds my gears? People who don't take the time out to understand why others like/support a certain character.

It's never: "hey, I noticed you support this character for smash. Personally, I find that a bit unfounded, but I'm willing to try to see your point of view because I like some odd characters myself."

It's always: "yeah, well that just doesn't make sense. That's a ridiculous pick! Who would want that character besides a small group? It's never happening."

You don't need to open up a world history textbook to see how it's primal human nature to criticize what appears unusual and different, just go to any Smash Bros. speculation centers on the internet!
 
D

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Guest
On the other hand, i usually find funny how much dinasty warriors gets overlooked... Imo the true Koei Tecmo battle horse.
Koei-Tecmo are also celebrating Dynasty Warriors' 20th Anniversary with 2 new games being announced this Sunday too, and most people around the speculation scene are still incredibly unaware of how much of a possibility Dynasty Warriors is in Smash.
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
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I'm actually gonna point this out because I think it's worth it.

Essentially the only character people say, "Isn't getting in because people predict it" is Dante.

They don't say it about Pokemon.

They don't say it about Monster Hunter.

They don't say it about Ryu Hayabusa.

They don't say it about Crash Bandicoot.

They don't say it about character upgrades.

They don't say it about plenty of things.

So why, then, is it that it only applies to Dante? If it's as inconsistent as this is, then it doesn't mean anything anyway and it's targeting a specific pick rather than actually making an argument. Obviously, I very much like Dante and would like to see him in the game, but I can't help but feel that this is a very specific argument made in very specific circumstances: AKA Dante in Smash.

It's not an argument. It's a gut feeling, and I can understand going with your gut, but at some point it comes across as "Yeah it doesn't apply to MY character who everyone talks about, but DEFINITELY that one because I'm not interested."

I thought we were past this but I guess not.
 

GoodGrief741

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I actually disagree here, in terms of how characters are treated. I do agree that in some cases the Smash fanbase doesn't do well with new opinions or anything outside of popularity.

Pretty sure I've seen plenty more folks in this very thread say, "Dante isn't getting in" than people actually supporting Dante. What I find interesting is that Crash Bandicoot is a character who is "Talked about" but nobody says Crash Bandicoot isn't happening. Gee, I wonder why?

The reason people are looking at characters as you're suggesting is that, when you look specifically at 1st parties, that's what we've gotten.

Now, I wouldn't say that any non-promotional 1st party can't get in- that would be a kinda weird thing to argue. But 3rd parties are inherently different compared to 1st parties. One is something coming directly from Nintendo, while the other is an entire universe that may or may not be close to Nintendo. To the mainstream, it's a bigger deal.

It's harder to argue that Min Min is as much of a promo pick as Corrin or Byleth (though I'd say she is to an extent) but to simply ignore that fact I think is a bit odd. Two of the 3 newcomer DLC picks are promotional, which I don't think is pure coincidence. I think it's also worth noting that when looking at 1st party DLC speculation, it was largely based on "popularity", which pointed to Waluigi, BWD, or Isaac. Spring Man was seen as a gate to further upgrades, and while Min Min opened things up for spirits, the jury is still out on Assist Trophies. If ATs are off the table, that shoots down Waluigi or Isaac, leaving us mainly picks like Rex or Bandanna Waddle Dee, neither of which is promotional.
-
While I myself once though getting Joker insinuated an entirely 3rd party pass, I think there's a few things that should be considered before we suddenly go on with this assumption that the entire pass is 1st party because "Min Min sets the tone".

1) Did Joker set the tone for "3rd parties" or "unique gameplay ideas"? After Joker, each character continues that trend regardless of parent company- Min Min included.

2) I would actually argue that if Min Min was meant to get people into the hype of FP2...she didn't really do a great job. There's not much chatter to be had about FP2 outside of Smash forums, and I'd argue some folks have lost some interest based on the last few picks. Now, I myself enjoy Byleth and Min Min, but there are many out there that seek the "didn't see that coming" pick. Nintendo picks are more expected by the mainstream, believe it or not, but not as wanted.

3) Prior to the Min Min/ARMS announcement, much of fan speculation on 1st parties either didn't focus on ARMS whatsoever, and was on upgrades. I feel this is the blindspot with 1st parties- much of the conversation was on "popularity" and while Min Min is "popular" she wasn't quite a part of that whole discussion.

4) With how spaced out the reveals are thus far, it's obviously different from Volume 1. Joker set a tone, sure. But he was followed up with another character shortly after, and brought much of the conversation of "who's next?" in plenty of places. I may be wrong, but I'm not seeing the same buzz this time. It isn't to say that Min Min was a bad pick- far from it. Simply put, I think the spacing between picks has made the "first pick" a wee bit less important at this point when all it will take is a bombshell pick to bring all the attention back based on the time period between reveals.

If the vision of the pass was to do a bunch of first party upgrades, would it not be a clear, fan want like Waluigi or Isaac? I would argue it would be if we're going with the line of logic that "they're doing upgrades/1st parties that appeal to fans".

I'm not really in a position to make any predictions about Volume 2 and to be honest Nintendo has put me to sleep with how long the time seems between reveals. I'm starting back at school and have started Dark Souls, so I'm already busy. I personally believe we're getting at least 2 3rd party picks, and can see at least another first party pick or two. I think going to any particular extreme with this pass is getting ahead of ourselves, and I think ignoring precedent we like OR hate is a bad idea.

I do think the next pick will tell us more, but I think the only pattern to consider consistent throughout most of the DLC is "new and unique gameplay" which, surprise, doesn't narrow down the possibilities!
All these patterns you mention require so much stretching to uphold I'm not even gonna bother. Ignore potential candidates at your own peril.

I'm actually gonna point this out because I think it's worth it.

Essentially the only character people say, "Isn't getting in because people predict it" is Dante.

They don't say it about Pokemon.

They don't say it about Monster Hunter.

They don't say it about Ryu Hayabusa.

They don't say it about Crash Bandicoot.

They don't say it about character upgrades.

They don't say it about plenty of things.

So why, then, is it that it only applies to Dante? If it's as inconsistent as this is, then it doesn't mean anything anyway and it's targeting a specific pick rather than actually making an argument. Obviously, I very much like Dante and would like to see him in the game, but I can't help but feel that this is a very specific argument made in very specific circumstances: AKA Dante in Smash.

It's not an argument. It's a gut feeling, and I can understand going with your gut, but at some point it comes across as "Yeah it doesn't apply to MY character who everyone talks about, but DEFINITELY that one because I'm not interested."

I thought we were past this but I guess not.
This is also hilariously untrue, I don't know how someone can say with a straight face that one of the most speculated and expected characters is anything but.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Regardless of whether it's true or not... hoo boy am I not going to enjoy the conversation (or the implications) either way. The possible prospect of Microsoft getting SEGA would be rather odd to say the least (not least since Microsoft became a major console manufacturer around the time SEGA went third party).
It'd be a pain for Super Smash Bros. as well. Can you imagine the discussion that would arise with the following series competing with each other?
  • Sonic the Hedgehog
  • Puyo Puyo
  • Yakusa
  • Minecraft
  • Halo
  • Banjo-Kazooie
  • Persona
  • Shin Megamei Tensei
  • Fallout
  • The Elder Scrolls
  • Doom
  • Bayonetta
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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I'm actually gonna point this out because I think it's worth it.

Essentially the only character people say, "Isn't getting in because people predict it" is Dante.

They don't say it about Pokemon.

They don't say it about Monster Hunter.

They don't say it about Ryu Hayabusa.

They don't say it about Crash Bandicoot.

They don't say it about character upgrades.

They don't say it about plenty of things.

So why, then, is it that it only applies to Dante? If it's as inconsistent as this is, then it doesn't mean anything anyway and it's targeting a specific pick rather than actually making an argument. Obviously, I very much like Dante and would like to see him in the game, but I can't help but feel that this is a very specific argument made in very specific circumstances: AKA Dante in Smash.

It's not an argument. It's a gut feeling, and I can understand going with your gut, but at some point it comes across as "Yeah it doesn't apply to MY character who everyone talks about, but DEFINITELY that one because I'm not interested."

I thought we were past this but I guess not.
...Are you sure Scoliosis is the right name for you, dude?

Because you just keep spitting some straight facts. :4pacman:
 

Captain Shwampy

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It'd be a pain for Super Smash Bros. as well. Can you imagine the discussion that would arise with the following series competing with each other?
  • Sonic the Hedgehog
  • Puyo Puyo
  • Yakusa
  • Minecraft
  • Halo
  • Banjo-Kazooie
  • Persona
  • Shin Megamei Tensei
  • Fallout
  • The Elder Scrolls
  • Doom
  • Bayonetta
At that point you might as well make a Microsoft all stars fighting game
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
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All these patterns you mention require so much stretching to uphold I'm not even gonna bother. Ignore potential candidates at your own peril.
Yes, obviously one must be stretching to imply that non-Nintendo owned characters are inherently different than Nintendo owned characters and that literally one character has been said by Sakurai himself to be a promotional character from a new game, Byleth came from a new game and was decided prior to their game coming out, and Min Min/ARMS was bunched together with a push for ARMS on Switch with special events.

Clearly I am reaching to insinuate that each pick has the common denominator of "bringing new and unique gameplay ideas" when Sakurai literally said it himself at the end of the Byleth presentation. **** me, right?

If they're "stretches", why not say WHY they're stretches than just wave it off and not say why they're stretches?

No need for the "i'm not gonna bother" either, as it insinuates the person you're responding to is unintelligent and is fairly rude. If you're gonna say something in a seemingly passive aggressive way to begin with, then please don't offhandedly disregard somebody's response. Not a good look. Take the time to respond.

Not to mention you're putting words in my mouth about "ignoring potential candidates" when I quite legitimately said the opposite when I said, "Saying a non-promotional character can't/won't happen would be...kinda weird." I don't even see why that was included in your response.
 
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Strong-Arm

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idk i just wont be shocked if all of us are guessing for dante, crash, doomguy, etc

then we just get blindsided by like axel, sol, or something

its partly why I think smash discussion can be pretty bad at times cause people really put ALL their eggs in a few baskets just for sakurai to put whoever he wants ultimately in
 

7NATOR

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Considering Sakurai and Nintendo made the Rex Costume a $25 Ransom, while Nia was a base game Costume, does that mean Sakurai would rather have Nia be the Playable character?
 

cashregister9

Smash Hero
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So we want new characters to discuss, eh?
ahem
Tell me more about Falcom. We discussed it earlier in the day but that didn't get very far off the ground, so now I'm drudging it up and I will continue to do so until we properly discuss Adol and Estelle.
Let's see here...

Adol is from one of the seminal ARPGs and created a standard that many ARPG's come from. Ys is more popular in the west than the other Falcom Properties

Rean is the Protagonist of Trails of Cold Steel he would use a Katana and a lot of magic. Trails of Cold Steel is arguably the most popular Trails subseries

Estelle is the Protagonist of Trails in The Sky she is considered the Mascot of the series and uses a Bo-staff and A lot of Magic. Trails in The Sky FC is the best selling Trails Game overall (not counting cold steel rereleases)

Lloyd is the Protagonist of Zero and Ao no Kiseki, Games that have not been officially localized yet, Ao no Kiseki is the best selling Trails game in japan

C is the protagonist of the most recent Trails game, Hajimari no Kiseki since the game came out this year there is a low chance that he would be added also he is spoilerific and the game has not released in the west yet

Yunica the Protagonist of Ys Origin would be relatively similar to Adol

Other Falcom Characters that aren't trails or Ys

Pipiro and Pokuru The Protagonists from Zwei!! I don't actually know much about Zwei!!

Dela is the face of the Game Brandish she isn't really the main character but she always appears in falcom crossovers to represent Brandish

Puku/Parin the protagonists of Gurumin I also don't know much about Gurumin

Regardless if a character from Falcom gets in or who gets in the music they will bring I guarantee will be top tier
EDIT: Here are some gosh dang examples (I do have a trails bias so sorry about that)
Whereabouts of the light
Sophisticated Fight
Fateful Confrontation
Strepitoso Fight
Determination of fight
The Merciless Savior
Silver Will
The Glint of Cold Steel
Get Over The Barrier!
Azure Arbitrator
Valestein Castle (From Ys)
Sunshine Coastline (From Ys)
Gadobadorrer (From Brandish)
Earnestly Advance (From Tokyo Xanadu)
Demon Lord Vesper (From Zwei!!)
Soaring Through Azure Sadness (From Gurumin)
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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Considering Sakurai and Nintendo made the Rex Costume a $25 Ransom, while Nia was a base game Costume, does that mean Sakurai would rather have Nia be the Playable character?
Nia does have a [Xenoblade 2 spoilers] Blade form, so I wouldn't put it past them to actually put Nia because why not?

Plus, Sakurai loves spoiling games :4pacman:
 

Guynamednelson

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Considering Sakurai and Nintendo made the Rex Costume a $25 Ransom, while Nia was a base game Costume, does that mean Sakurai would rather have Nia be the Playable character?
Didn't you already ask this? And why would it be a "ransom"?
 
D

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Quick question out of curiosity... why you stopped being a 3 houses fan? :s
I respect Three Houses, don't worry. I had to move on though.

I just became more dedicated to Terraria and now Mario 64.
 
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Lamperouge

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Considering Sakurai and Nintendo made the Rex Costume a $25 Ransom, while Nia was a base game Costume, does that mean Sakurai would rather have Nia be the Playable character?
No, but I wouldn't completely object to Nia over Rex TBH.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Considering Sakurai and Nintendo made the Rex Costume a $25 Ransom, while Nia was a base game Costume, does that mean Sakurai would rather have Nia be the Playable character?
Doubtful. Rex is the protagonist. It would be weird if he wasn't chosen. Besides, if the Mii Costumes were an issue, then neither of them would be the pick.

Didn't you already ask this? And why would it be a "ransom"?
Because you can't get it unless you buy the whole pass at the same time.

I respect Three Houses, don't worry.

I just became more dedicated to Terraria and now Mario 64.
ShinyLegendary: My friendship has ended with Fire Emblem: Three Houses. Now there is only Terraria.
 
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Schnee117

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idk i just wont be shocked if all of us are guessing for dante, crash, doomguy, etc

then we just get blindsided by like axel, sol, or something

its partly why I think smash discussion can be pretty bad at times cause people really put ALL their eggs in a few baskets just for sakurai to put whoever he wants ultimately in
Sol's been discussed enough that he wouldn't be blindsiding and Axel's had a fair amount that he probably wouldn't either.

What'd be blindsiding would probably be like, Asura or a God Eater or... I dunno, someone from Gears of War.
 
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