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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Rie Sonomura

Rie Sonomura

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Welp no reveal this week. Maybe they’ll announce it for next week

context: Byleth and Min Min had no spirit event or tourney before their reveals
 
SKX31

SKX31

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GoodGrief741 said:
I live for them puns
Click to expand...
Perfect excuse to bring up something poignant with my pun then:

While you live, shine
have no grief at all
life exists only for a short while
and Time demands his due.
Click to expand...
- Seikilos Epitaph, oldest surviving complete musical composition (1st or 2nd Century AD). A modern take on it:


(Edit: Yes I've recently fallen in love with Civilization's soundtrack. Especially VI's.)

ShinyLegendary said:
Shin Megami Tensei is winning outside of Smash at least, right Idon Idon ?
Click to expand...
No need to post about that twice in rapid succession. I get your enthusiasm, but please edit the first post or PM him next time around.
 
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ShrimpScampi

ShrimpScampi

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SharkLord said:
So we want new characters to discuss, eh?
ahem
Tell me more about Falcom. We discussed it earlier in the day but that didn't get very far off the ground, so now I'm drudging it up and I will continue to do so until we properly discuss Adol and Estelle.
Click to expand...
Oh boy, it's time for me to make a...
BIG
falcom logo.png
POST​
Nihon Falcom is a surprisingly old Japanese game dev company (their first game was in 1982 for the PC-8801!). They're most known for the Ys and Legend of Heroes: Trails franchises, although they have some other games too (Tokyo Xanadu and Gurumin: A Monstrous Adventure come to mind). Trails is their big turn-based RPG franchise, while Ys is their big action RPG franchise. The three characters that could feasibly be included in a crossover game like Smash are Estelle Bright and Rean Schwarzer from the Trails series, and Adol Christin from the Ys series.

Estelle.png
rean.png
adol.png

Starting with Ys (pronounced like "geese" without the G), this is their big action RPG franchise, starting on the PC-8801 in 1987. Since then, there have been a couple different gameplay styles it's gone through, but overall the focus is on fast, tight combat. All of the Ys games (minus the prequel game, Ys Origin) star Adol Christin. Depending on the game, his moveset/abilities change. The first two Ys games have what's called the "bump system." While I haven't played those, I believe it's like the Impact Run ability, where you damage enemies by charging into them. Later Ys games give him a bunch of skills that you can assign to inputs, kind of like Tales arts. They also introduce Flash Move and Flash Guard, which are essentially perfect dodging and parrying, but they provide temporary bonuses when pulled off (Flash Move slows down enemies and Flash Guard boosts your damage).

As for Trails, this is their big turn-based RPG franchise, with super in-depth world-building and phenomenal character writing. Y'know how Persona kind of branched off from SMT into its own thing? Trails did that twice. The first Trails in the Sky game is the sixth entry in the Legend of Heroes series, which itself started as a spin-off of the Dragon Slayer series, and the Dragon Slayer series started in 1984. There are three major Trails story arcs: the Sky arc (Trails in the Sky, Trails in the Sky SC, and Trails in the Sky the 3rd), the Crossbell arc (Zero no Kiseki and Ao no Kiseki), and the Cold Steel arc (Trails of Cold Steel I-IV). (There's also the currently Japan-only Hajimari no Kiseki as kind of a spin-off/epilogue to the three arcs.) Estelle is the protagonist of the Sky arc, and Rean is the protagonist of the Cold Steel arc. One thing about Trails' storytelling is that all three arcs take place on the same continent within a few years of each other, so even though Estelle is the protagonist of the Sky arc, she and other Sky characters are involved in later arcs as well.

In terms of abilities, Estelle uses a bo staff, while Rean uses a sword called a tachi. Both can also cast a large variety of spells. I mentioned a little bit ago about what gimmicks they could use for Estelle, and the same could be said for Rean. Rean can also (end of Cold Steel I) summon a big ol' robot and climb inside for some fights.

Including any Falcom character would be super interesting from a historical perspective, mainly because of just how far back these franchises go. Ys in particular was one of the earliest action RPG franchises, but The Legend of Heroes also made its own mark with its crazy world-building. Recently, now that NISA has taken over publishing instead of XSeed, both franchises have been coming to Switch and have upcoming releases -- Ys VIII and Trails of Cold Steel III are both on Switch already, and Ys IX and Trails of Cold Steel IV are on their way to Switch next year. If they went with Trails, Rean would be a very Joker-esque pick in terms of his role in the series, since he's the protagonist of the newest arc, but Estelle would be more Terry-like, being the face of the franchise to some extent.

The music also slaps (exhibit A, exhibit B, exhibit C, exhibit D, exhibit E), and since it's all kept in-house under the Falcom Sound Team jdk label, it's very possible that regardless of which franchise gets chosen, we'd get a big selection of tracks from both. My top pick from Falcom is Estelle, since I really enjoy her character, and think she'd do a good job representing the Trails franchise as a whole, but I would be excited to see any Falcom character make it in.
 
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3BitSaurus

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Strong-Arm said:
Terry getting in over Kyo
Click to expand...
Well, to be fair, these two are a bit different from your other examples. Kyo's series is still active and has a game on the horizon, unlike Terry's, but Terry is still generally seen as "Mr. SNK", so him being included first does make sense.

...I just wish we at least got a Mii Costume, man.
 
Strong-Arm

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Rie Sonomura said:
Welp no reveal this week. Maybe they’ll announce it for next week

context: Byleth and Min Min had no spirit event or tourney before their reveals
Click to expand...
yea i think most of us figured itll probs be next week so im not too surprised

still gonna gun for next week with another week wait before they drop

Hadokeyblade said:
The main protagonist of final fight is a spirit though.
Click to expand...
at the moment the only big name beat em up series without a spirit or spirit event is streets of rage and double dragon. Not sure what that means to yall but something to chew on
 
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Idon

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3BitSaurus

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Rie Sonomura said:
Welp no reveal this week. Maybe they’ll announce it for next week

context: Byleth and Min Min had no spirit event or tourney before their reveals
Click to expand...
...but then again, the first four DLC characters did.

I'm still gonna hold out for tomorrow. If we get nothing, then yeah, probably next week.
 
D

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We are so close to reaching the end of the journey.

We are so close to CP7.
 
SharkLord

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ShrimpScampi said:
Oh boy, it's time for me to make a...
Nihon Falcom is a surprisingly old Japanese game dev company (their first game was in 1982 for the PC-8801!). They're most known for the Ys and Legend of Heroes: Trails franchises, although they have some other games too (Tokyo Xanadu and Gurumin: A Monstrous Adventure come to mind). Trails is their big turn-based RPG franchise, while Ys is their big action RPG franchise. The three characters that could feasibly be included in a crossover game like Smash are Estelle Bright and Rean Schwarzer from the Trails series, and Adol Christin from the Ys series.


Starting with Ys (pronounced like "geese" without the G), this is their big action RPG franchise, starting on the PC-8801 in 1987. Since then, there have been a couple different gameplay styles it's gone through, but overall the focus is on fast, tight combat. All of the Ys games (minus the prequel game, Ys Origin) star Adol Christin. Depending on the game, his moveset/abilities change. The first two Ys games have what's called the "bump system." While I haven't played those, I believe it's like the Impact Run ability, where you damage enemies by charging into them. Later Ys games give him a bunch of skills that you can assign to inputs, kind of like Tales arts. They also introduce Flash Move and Flash Guard, which are essentially perfect dodging and parrying, but they provide temporary bonuses when pulled off (Flash Move slows down enemies and Flash Guard boosts your damage).

As for Trails, this is their big turn-based RPG franchise, with super in-depth world-building and phenomenal character writing. Y'know how Persona kind of branched off from SMT into its own thing? Trails did that twice. The first Trails in the Sky game is the sixth entry in the Legend of Heroes series, which itself started as a spin-off of the Dragon Slayer series, and the Dragon Slayer series started in 1984. There are three major Trails story arcs: the Sky arc (Trails in the Sky, Trails in the Sky SC, and Trails in the Sky the 3rd), the Crossbell arc (Zero no Kiseki and Ao no Kiseki), and the Cold Steel arc (Trails of Cold Steel I-IV). (There's also the currently Japan-only Hajimari no Kiseki as kind of a spin-off/epilogue to the three arcs.) Estelle is the protagonist of the Sky arc, and Rean is the protagonist of the Cold Steel arc. One thing about Trails' storytelling is that all three arcs take place on the same continent within a few years of each other, so even though Estelle is the protagonist of the Sky arc, she and other Sky characters are involved in later arcs as well.

In terms of abilities, Estelle uses a bo staff, while Rean uses a sword called a tachi. Both can also cast a large variety of spells. I mentioned a little bit ago about what gimmicks they could use for Estelle, and the same could be said for Rean. Rean can also (end of Cold Steel I) summon a big ol' robot and climb inside for some fights.

Including any Falcom character would be super interesting from a historical perspective, mainly because of just how far back these franchises go. Ys in particular was one of the earliest action RPG franchises, but The Legend of Heroes also made its own mark with its crazy world-building. Recently, now that NISA has taken over publishing instead of XSeed, both franchises have been coming to Switch and have upcoming releases -- Ys VIII and Trails of Cold Steel III are both on Switch already, and Ys IX and Trails of Cold Steel IV are on their way to Switch next year. If they went with Trails, Rean would be a very Joker-esque pick in terms of his role in the series, since he's the protagonist of the newest arc, but Estelle would be more Terry-like, being the face of the franchise to some extent.

The music also slaps (exhibit A, exhibit B, exhibit C, exhibit D, exhibit E), and since it's all kept in-house under the Falcom Sound Team jdk label, it's very possible that regardless of which franchise gets chosen, we'd get a big selection of tracks from both. My top pick from Falcom is Estelle, since I really enjoy her character, and think she'd do a good job representing the Trails franchise as a whole, but I would be excited to see any Falcom character make it in.
Click to expand...
This is all quite informative and interesting. Thanks a bunch!

My first instinct is to lean towards Adol due to Ys' long-running nature and impact on action RPGs and JRPGS in general, but Trails doesn't seem to be anything to dismiss, either, especially with my lack of knowledge. Still, if we can definitively say that Ys had an impact on JRPGs and action RPGs, I'm beginning to think we may have a sleeper on out hands. Whether or not he'll be filed under one of the many sleepers or if he'll be someone I actively start pushing remains to be seen. The music that was posted a while back was great, though.

On a side note, do you think we could pull a Terry and get some degree of music from Ys/Trails if the other gets in, or is that only something we can do with the Dragon Slayer->Legend of Heroes->Trails chain?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Actually, can anyone please verify this?

If you bought at least one of the fighters separately, you won’t be able to buy the whole Fighters Pass and thus won’t get the exclusive mii costume.

I can’t do it because I bought the whole pass, and an internet search isn’t netting me any answers.
 
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cashregister9

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SharkLord said:
On a side note, do you think we could pull a Terry and get some degree of music from Ys/Trails if the other gets in, or is that only something we can do with the Dragon Slayer->Legend of Heroes->Trails chain?
Click to expand...
Very easily. If I recall a lot of early falcom music is actually royalty free and for the crossover game Ys vs Sora No Kiseki they had a large variety of music from not just Ys and Trails but a few from Zwei, Xanadu, Gurumin and Brandish.
 
SKX31

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SharkLord said:
Depends. Do you have an extra soul on hand I could borrow?
Click to expand...
Well, we'll just have to see how the soul market functio-



Oh.

cashregister9 said:
Very easily. If I recall a lot of early falcom music is actually royalty free and for the crossover game Ys vs Sora No Kiseki they had a large variety of music from not just Ys and Trails but a few from Zwei, Xanadu, Gurumin and Brandish.
Click to expand...
Huh, if that's the case then I could easily see Furukawa / Nintendo at least considering Falcom on a similar principle as SNK: hey, really cheap music's never a bad thing.
 
Dr.DonPatch64

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Shroob said:
....explain what you mean? It's a real ad, if that's what you're wondering, someone didn't walk into the 7-11 and put it up for ****s and giggles.
Click to expand...
I mean a theory that a fighter might happen before the ad is replaced, not the actual ad itself
 
ShrimpScampi

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​
SharkLord said:
This is all quite informative and interesting. Thanks a bunch!

My first instinct is to lean towards Adol due to Ys' long-running nature and impact on action RPGs and JRPGS in general, but Trails doesn't seem to be anything to dismiss, either, especially with my lack of knowledge. Still, if we can definitively say that Ys had an impact on JRPGs and action RPGs, I'm beginning to think we may have a sleeper on out hands. Whether or not he'll be filed under one of the many sleepers or if he'll be someone I actively start pushing remains to be seen. The music that was posted a while back was great, though.

On a side note, do you think we could pull a Terry and get some degree of music from Ys/Trails if the other gets in, or is that only something we can do with the Dragon Slayer->Legend of Heroes->Trails chain?
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think that regardless of whether Adol, Estelle, or Rean gets in, we could definitely get a selection of tracks from both Ys and Trails (and maybe more!). From my research, Falcom has full rights to the music from their games, since they have a team of in-house composers. It seems to be structured very similarly to how SNK handles their music. They've even used a lot of their games' soundtracks as background music in their weird crossover comedy spin-off anime, which was very, uh...

falcom gakuen.jpg

​
...interesting.
 
I.D.

I.D.

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Rie Sonomura said:
Welp no reveal this week. Maybe they’ll announce it for next week

context: Byleth and Min Min had no spirit event or tourney before their reveals
Click to expand...

[Event] Throw Up Them Horns! - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

www-aaaba-lp1-hac.cdn.nintendo.net

[Event] Nefarious Ne'er-do-wells - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

www-aaaba-lp1-hac.cdn.nintendo.net

Top link is the week of the presentation announcement, bottom link is the week of the presentation

Don't you ever get tired of spreading misinformation?
 
Shroob

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Dr.DonPatch64 said:
I mean a theory that a fighter might happen before the ad is replaced, not the actual ad itself
Click to expand...
I mean, that'd be a fine line of thinking... if we didn't actually have solid proof that this has happened in the past, which it has. Every time they've put up an ad like this, news is to come "Soon".

When the Fighter's Pass was coming out, there was a huge marketing push so everyone knew about it, hell, every store around here stocked physical cards for it, my local Target even had a paper display ad.


But over time, ads make way for new ads, for newer games. The only time older things get the spotlight, is... when new stuff is coming. That way, you both get eyes on the product while also renewing interest. Putting up the ad for no reason other than "Oh right guys Smash exists", is a bit.... bad from a marketing perspective if you're not going to have anything coming soon to hook people in who just bought it.
 
NonSpecificGuy

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Idon said:
Well we'll see. If SMTV doesn't sell well the future bodes poorly for that franchise.
Click to expand...
More than anything Atlus has to market this game right. They don’t need to market it as “the next game in the long running SMT franchise” but as something completely new. Persona benefits from having a very distinct appeal. I believe SMT has that as well but they have to absolutely capitalize on that in the marketing.
 
Shroob

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Strong-Arm said:
whoever it is will probably be the final character of 2020 so whoever it is i hope the smash community is happy with them

but knowing the smash community whoever is next will probably be hated
Click to expand...
I feel like a certain character will bring joy.

Joy for his fanbase

And joy for the people just glad there won't be anymore debates and wars over him.
 
SharkLord

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cashregister9 said:
Very easily. If I recall a lot of early falcom music is actually royalty free and for the crossover game Ys vs Sora No Kiseki they had a large variety of music from not just Ys and Trails but a few from Zwei, Xanadu, Gurumin and Brandish.
Click to expand...
ShrimpScampi said:
​
Yeah, I think that regardless of whether Adol, Estelle, or Rean gets in, we could definitely get a selection of tracks from both Ys and Trails (and maybe more!). From my research, Falcom has full rights to the music from their games, since they have a team of in-house composers. It seems to be structured very similarly to how SNK handles their music. They've even used a lot of their games' soundtracks as background music in their weird crossover comedy spin-off anime, which was very, uh...

...interesting.
Click to expand...
Really, now? If the songs Schnee posted a couple pages back are any indication, that's a truly solid deal.
Also, that anime is, uh...
Estul.jpg

Uh...
 
Among Waddle Dees

Among Waddle Dees

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Strong-Arm said:
whoever it is will probably be the final character of 2020 so whoever it is i hope the smash community is happy with them

but knowing the smash community whoever is next will probably be hated
Click to expand...
I know hopes can occasionally override expectations, but wishing for everything (in this case a character for everyone) will lead to absolutely nothing.
 
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