Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

Are you ever fascinated how billions of years od development and thousands of years of cultural and historical development lead to us talking about Smash speculation?

Mesopotamia, Greece, Rome, Europe, The French Revolution, World War I, World War II, the Cold War, and many other stuff I have not mentioned...

All of these events have lead to THIS very moment. They have lead to us talking about CP7. Life is amazing and mysterious, isn't it?

 

[N3ON]

Are you ever fascinated how billions of years od development and thousands of years of cultural and historical development lead to us talking about Smash speculation?

Mesopotamia, Greece, Rome, Europe, World War I, World War II, the Cold War, and many other stuff i have not mentioned...

All of these events have lead to THIS very moment. They have lead to us talking about CP7. Life is amazing and mysterious, isn't it?

Hell of an anticlimax.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

People need to learn from .

I remember many people were expecting a hard-hitting third party to make a grand conclusion for this first fighter's pass. Many were betting on Dante, and the lights were pointing to Dante.

And then, boom. Byleth is CP5. Not many saw Byleth being the final character for the first Fighters Pass.

Vergeben leaked it moments before the presentation, and only a few leakers actually predicted Byleth for CP5.

And now everyone’s expecting the next character to be big because apparently it “needs” to be a big character to build confidence in the pass again. People never fail to set themselves up for disappointment

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Here's where I'm at:

Popularity can get you pretty far sure, but can it get Geno past the other Super Mario characters? The other SquareEnix characters? Nintendo's lack of interest for more reasons than him being 3rd party? Any potential rights issues with SquareEnix? I personally don't think so. It's still a possibility, but it's incredibly slight.

It doesn't help that he's only on the table due to a slight chance that Nintendo knows that a Super Mario guessing game would be a terrible idea due to the backlash from either the Geno and/or Waluigi fanbases when one or both of them aren't the pick.

 

[Deleted member]

Hell of an anticlimax.

Ah, I see.

Do you think people like the ancient Greeks speculated about who would win the Olympic games, just like how we are speculating about who will be CP7?

 

[osby]

Ah, I see.

Do you think people like the ancient Greeks speculated about who would win the Olympic games, just like how we are speculating about who will be CP7?

"You see, the only reason Hippomenes won the race is because of Aphrodite bias. He is a literal who from an unheard kingdom and doesn't deserve the prize. It should've been fan favorite Atalanta."

 

[Idon]

Ah, I see.

Do you think people like the ancient Greeks speculated about who would win the Olympic games, just like how we are speculating about who will be CP7?

Look, unless you're talking about Zagreus, I don't really know how this pertains to Smash Bros or why you keep bringing it up.

As a side note, what I wouldn't give to have this mild-mannered teenage rebel god in Smash...

 

[N3ON]

"You see, the only reason Hippomenes won the race is because of Aphrodite bias. He is a literal who from an unheard kingdom and doesn't deserve the prize. It should've been fan favorite Atalanta."

My oracle told me they're finally going to add Pan, even though he's not relevant anymore.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Here's where I'm at:

Popularity can get you pretty far sure, but can it get Geno past the other Super Mario characters? The other SquareEnix characters? Nintendo's lack of interest for more reasons than him being 3rd party? Any potential rights issues with SquareEnix? I personally don't think so. It's still a possibility, but it's incredibly slight.

It doesn't help that he's only on the table due to a slight chance that Nintendo knows that a Super Mario guessing game would be a terrible idea due to the backlash from either the Geno and/or Waluigi fanbases when one or both of them aren't the pick.

We already have 2 other Square characters, one of which was already part of the DLC, and there aren’t any Mario characters who are appealing enough to sell as a DLC transaction other than Waluigi, but he’s an assist trophy so that’s highly unlikely. Even then, what new stage or new music or new spirits could they give a new Mario character that aren’t already in the game to some degree? Geno is the only Mario character who could get away with bringing all those new things to Smash

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Try waiting for Darkstalkers 4... or a proper Paper Mario game... or a new F-Zero... or a new Wario Land... or an update on Bayonetta 3...

... why no, my life isn't painful at all.

Try waiting for an Eternal Darkness sequel. Yeah... that is TRUE pain

 

[Deleted member]

Look, unless you're talking about Zagreus, I don't really know how this pertains to Smash Bros or why you keep bringing it up.

Because these events lead to us talking about Smash speculation.

As a side note, what I wouldn't give to have this mild-mannered teenage rebel god in Smash...
View attachment 286417

See? You made it about Smash. That is clever.

Also I really like the sword design. Red and black make a great combo.

My oracle told me they're finally going to add Pan, even though he's not relevant anymore.

Actually, they are going to add Coroebus.

 

[Strong-Arm]

if were gonna talk about different characters than normal we should talk about axel stone tbh (totally not biased) but he seems to suddenly be popping up more in peoples speculation from what ive seen on twitter and 4chan
Not sure why people suddenly are putting him in the running when theres been radio silence about him since before ult even

 

[Idon]

Personally, I'm just excited for TGS next week to see the influx of people saying that 2B is more likely after seeing gameplay of the NieR Replicant remake. Doubly so if either of those games get a Switch port. Would give me more excuses to gush about those games while still tangentially remaining on-topic.

Of course, talking about 2B invariably leads to talking about Square Enix and their dearth of characters and that always brings up you-know-who.

 

[StrangeKitten]

We already have 2 other Square characters, one of which was already part of the DLC, and there aren’t any Mario characters who are appealing enough to sell as a DLC transaction other than Waluigi, but he’s an assist trophy so that’s highly unlikely. Even then, what new stage or new music or new spirits could they give a new Mario character that aren’t already in the game to some degree? Geno is the only Mario character who could get away with bringing all those new things to Smash

We don't have a Mario Party or Mario Sports stage. Kinda unexciting stages but they're still stages Waluigi could bring. And I'm sure music and spirits could be found there too

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Look, unless you're talking about Zagreus, I don't really know how this pertains to Smash Bros or why you keep bringing it up.

As a side note, what I wouldn't give to have this mild-mannered teenage rebel god in Smash...
View attachment 286417

I read rebel as robot somehow and bow you reminded me My Life As a Teenage Robot exists. Add Jenny in Smash Nintendo, you already got her VA in your contacts as she did Lysithea Fire Emblem

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

if were gonna talk about different characters than normal we should talk about axel stone tbh (totally not biased) but he seems to suddenly be popping up more in peoples speculation from what ive seen on twitter and 4chan
Not sure why people suddenly are putting him in the running when theres been radio silence about him since before ult even

I'm assuming SoR4 helped bring him back in the spotlight for most, myself included

And tbh, I'd totally be down for him, myself. About time we got a genuine beat em up rep

 

[N3ON]

We already have 2 other Square characters, one of which was already part of the DLC, and there aren’t any Mario characters that are appealing enough to sell as a DLC transaction other than Waluigi, but he’s an assist trophy so that’s highly unlikely.

You know if you're going to argue against more Square-Enix characters, Geno is not somehow excluded from that pool.

Even then, what new stage or new music or new spirits could they give a new Mario character that aren’t already in the game? Geno is the only Mario character who could get away with bringing all those new things to Smash

A lot. It's Mario. It gets like three games a year. Do you mean to tell me that all the locations, music, and pngs in the entire series are already in the game?

 

[cashregister9]

Personally, I'm just excited for TGS next week to see the influx of people saying that 2B is more likely after seeing gameplay of the NieR Replicant remake. Doubly so if either of those games get a Switch port. Would give me more excuses to gush about those games while still tangentially remaining on-topic.

Of course, talking about 2B invariably leads to talking about Square Enix and their dearth of characters and that always brings up you-know-who.

NieR Replicant

Kainé and Weiss 4 smash

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

You know if you're going to argue against more Square-Enix characters, Geno is not somehow excluded from that pool.


A lot. It's Mario. It gets like three games a year. Do you mean to tell me that all the locations, music, and pngs in the entire series are already in the game?

Geno is a unique situation just like Banjo was. Just because other Square characters exist doesn’t mean Geno should be seen as less valuable, just like Banjo wasn’t seen as less valuable just because other Microsoft characters exist.

And clearly you missed the part about a character needing to be compelling enough for customers to want to spend another extra $6 on. You ain’t gonna get that by adding Shy Guy or Dry Bowser

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

We don't have a Mario Party or Mario Sports stage. Kinda unexciting stages but they're still stages Waluigi could bring. And I'm sure music and spirits could be found there too

You said it yourself, they’re unexciting. People are missing the fact that we’re dealing with DLC, which needs to be appealing to customers. Those very much feel like things that would be better suited in base game. And I really truly don’t believe we’re gonna see Waluigi upgraded to playable in Ultimate

 

[MooMew64]

I read rebel as robot somehow and bow you reminded me My Life As a Teenage Robot exists. Add Jenny in Smash Nintendo, you already got her VA in your contacts as she did Lysithea Fire Emblem

Wait.

WHAT.

Lysithea is Jenny!?

I...Somehow missed this across two Three Houses playthroughs.

 

[Deleted member]

Relevant image:

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...there aren’t any Mario characters who are appealing enough to sell as a DLC transaction other than Waluig...

Untrue. Captain Toad and King Boo are also characters that Nintendo could sell without too much effort. They're at least on the level of Byleth in terms of marketability.

...but he’s an assist trophy so that’s highly unlikely.

Truth. I'd go as far as to say he's disconfirmed.

Even then, what new stage or new music or new spirits could they give a new Mario character that aren’t already in the game to some degree?

Well there's Bowser's Castle for one...not that it would make sense for any of the current fighters. For the current candidates, we have anything based on Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker and the hotel or the Scarescraper from Luigi's Mansion 3. For music and Spirits, Captain Toad would likely be like Terry and come with a bunch of general Super Mario tracks and Spirits (especially fitting as a 35th anniversary celebration character), and King Boo could do the same as well, with emphasis on Luigi's Mansion 3 music.

Geno is the only Mario character who could get away with bringing all those new things to Smash

False due to the prior possibilities I've mentioned.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Untrue. Captain Toad and King Boo are also characters that Nintendo could sell without too much effort. They're at least on the level of Byleth in terms of marketability.


Truth. I'd go as far as to say he's disconfirmed.


Well there's Bowser's Castle for one...not that it would make sense for any of the current fighters. For the current candidates, we have anything based on Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker and the hotel or the Scarescraper from Luigi's Mansion 3. For music and Spirits, Captain Toad would likely be like Terry and come with a bunch of general Super Mario tracks and Spirits (especially fitting as a 35th anniversary celebration character), and King Boo could do the same as well, with emphasis on Luigi's Mansion 3 music.


False due to the prior possibilities I've mentioned.

Okay but here’s the thing. Think about Joker, Hero, Banjo and Terry. All big, unexpected characters that hyped people up. Then there’s Byleth, who yeah, wasn’t as hype, but who was a brand new character who had a brand new game to promote. Then there’s Min Min, a character from a brand new unrepresented Nintendo franchise in Smash. They all make sense as a separate $6 transaction. So with that in mind, would someone like King Boo or Captain Toad match any of that criteria? Not saying they’re bad characters, but they would literally just be random Mario characters for the sake of more Mario characters. Geno, however, would not only be satisfying a huge fan request, but would also represent a separate part of Mario’s history that has zero presence in Smash outside of the Geno and Mallow spirits. It would actually be unique and compelling enough to sell as a separate $6 transaction to customers

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wait.

WHAT.

Lysithea is Jenny!?

I...Somehow missed this across two Three Houses playthroughs.

New headcanon Jenny becomes fully organic somehow and she ends up stuffing her ****ing face with cake constantly. Despite this she's still able to ****ing obliterate any and all potential threats.



Also it has been 0 days since Geno discourse

 

[StrangeKitten]

Well there's Bowser's Castle for one...not that it would make sense for any of the current fighters.

(Not that I want to bring him up but this thread already brought him up 0 seconds after I suggested otherwise, so) Bowser's Keep is one of the most iconic locations in SMRPG. I know everyone thinks they'd choose Forest Maze, it's still the frontrunner for Geno's stage choice. But Bowser's Keep is up there as far as other possibilities go.

 

[SharkLord]

...

I should not have brought up Geno in regards to the takedown.

Probably shouldn't bring him up until the stupid Geno thread v. general thread dynamic dies down.

This whole argument is dumb. What's even the point? It's just a wooden puppet who may or may not get into Nintendo's punchy-kicky-fall game. He's not inevitable or impossible until he shows up or the pass ends without him. It's not something to waste entire pages fighting over.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So with that in mind, would someone like King Boo or Captain Toad match any of that criteria? Not saying they’re bad characters, but they would literally just be random Mario characters for the sake of more Mario characters. Geno, however, would not only be satisfying a huge fan request, but would also represent a separate part of Mario’s history that has zero presence in Smash outside of the Geno and Mallow spirits. It would actually be unique and compelling enough to sell as a separate $6 transaction to customers

I mean.

King Boo and Captain Toad are major parts of more successful Mario spin offs. Wouldn't they be able to show off Captain Toad and Luigi's Mansion, which have little representation as well? A Luigi's Mansion themed pass would sell really well, for example. That and I don't think its right to call recurring major characters random when you're advocating for a character who hasn't appeared in almost twenty five years.

I don't think comparing Mario characters is the right path here. You shouldn't have to drag down King Boo and Captain Toad to bring Geno up.

 

[Strong-Arm]

nonstop talking about geno is really really really boring im sorry

this is genuinely a dead horse at this point

 

[Deleted member]

Relevant image:
View attachment 286419

I could have added Geno to this image too.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ya know...

If you guys don't like the conversation...

You can bring up a new topic, instead of just complaining...

 

[N3ON]

Geno is a unique situation just like Banjo was. Just because other Square characters exist doesn’t mean Geno should be seen as less valuable, just like Banjo wasn’t seen as less valuable just because other Microsoft characters exist.

Well, minus being a protagonist of a pretty successful if dormant series leading to a lot more recognition and therefore incentive to include. Sure.

But the original concern of whether popularity will be enough to get him past other SE characters seems a valid question to me, since Banjo did it on his first try and now Geno's on his third, despite the popularity.

And clearly you missed the part about a character needing to be compelling enough for customers to want to spend another extra $6 on. You ain’t gonna get that by adding Shy Guy or Dry Bowser

I didn't miss it, the part I had an issue with was what you said next.

 

[Strong-Arm]

Ya know...

If you guys don't like the conversation...

You can bring up a new topic, instead of just complaining...

I did but it got swamped by geno posts, that was talking about Axel or some other character

 

[Perkilator]

Ya know...

If you guys don't like the conversation...

You can bring up a new topic, instead of just complaining...

Okay, soooo…

HWYR if Frank West was an early purchase bonus character alongside ?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Okay, soooo…

HWYR if Frank West was an early purchase bonus character alongside ?

I'd be very confused as to why Frank West of all characters was a bonus fighter.

You'd think he'd headline.

 

[Shroob]

I think we all need to remember:

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

I mean.

King Boo and Captain Toad are major parts of more successful Mario spin offs. Wouldn't they be able to show off Captain Toad and Luigi's Mansion, which have little representation as well? A Luigi's Mansion themed pass would sell really well, for example. That and I don't think its right to call recurring major characters random when you're advocating for a character who hasn't appeared in almost twenty five years.

I don't think comparing Mario characters is the right path here. You shouldn't have to drag down King Boo and Captain Toad to bring Geno up.

I’m not dragging them down, I’m simply thinking from a business perspective, whereas you’re just thinking from a “what are some other more popular/relevant Mario characters” perspective. We’ve already seen that “what’s more popular/relevant” isn’t how they view the DLC. We got Banjo over Steve or Master Chief. We got Terry instead of any of the countless other more popular/relevant characters we’re always speculating about. They don’t use DLC to just add more characters for the sake of adding more characters. They have to be compelling and exciting to the people who are playing the game and willing to spend more money on it

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Okay but here’s the thing. Think about Joker, Hero, Banjo and Terry. All big, unexpected characters that hyped people up. Then there’s Byleth, who yeah, wasn’t as hype, but who was a brand new character who had a brand new game to promote. Then there’s Min Min, a character from a brand new unrepresented Nintendo franchise in Smash. They all make sense as a separate $6 transaction. So with that in mind, would someone like King Boo or Captain Toad match any of that criteria? Not saying they’re bad characters, but they would literally just be random Mario characters for the sake of more Mario characters.

Absolutely. I think that the Super Mario 35th Anniversary alone would be enough of a reason to convince the general public that the character was a good idea. They're not random characters either, Captain Toad is a named version of an iconic species to Super Smash Bros.; one so omnipresent that its baffling that their only representation in terms of fighters is as a...erm, fungi shield. King Boo is the major villain of the Luigi's Mansion series, which has been getting higher production values as of late. It's also recent enough to promote if Min Min is any indication. It would also be kind of fitting seeing as how he'd likely release in October, but that's getting into tinfoil hat territory (though Luigi's Mansion 3 did get released around Halloween...ack! No! Bad SMAAASH!!! Puppy!). He'd also be super unique, as his source material is that sweet spot where his abilities are unique, but still super nebulous, so Sakurai could go ham on his fighter design.

They both have more a lot more merit than you're giving them credit for.

 

[StrangeKitten]

And clearly you missed the part about a character needing to be compelling enough for customers to want to spend another extra $6 on. You ain’t gonna get that by adding Shy Guy or Dry Bowser

So... am I the only one here who definitely would spend $6 on Shy Guy and/or Dry Bowser? Anyone else big enough Mario trash or is that just me?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I’m not dragging them down, I’m simply thinking from a business perspective, whereas you’re just thinking from a “what are some other more popular/relevant Mario characters” perspective. We’ve already seen that “what’s more popular/relevant” isn’t how they view the DLC. We got Banjo over Steve or Master Chief. We got Terry instead of any of the countless other more popular/relevant characters we’re always speculating about. They don’t use DLC to just add more characters for the sake of adding more characters. They have to be compelling and exciting to the people who are playing the game and willing to spend more money on it

But... if something is popular... does that not make it exciting? You'd have to be compelling and exciting to be popular, right?

I mean Banjo got in due to popularity... He was a direct inclusion from a popularity contest... As in proof, of popularity, which is also Geno's main draw.

Even then, isn't including popular things good for business?

I don't understand your logic.