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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Mushroomguy12

Mushroomguy12

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Happy 3D All Stars release day everyone!





There was a problem fetching the tweet
 
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Rikarte

Rikarte

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The reason why the wait feels so long is because yes, Min Min was revealed 3 months ago, but CP6 being from ARMS has been announced yet another 3 months prior to that. That's half a year of barely any Smash news.
Now I don't mind having to wait because at the end of the day all fighters are hopefully gonna be revealed by 2022 but I can totally see why people are getting impatient.
 
SMAASH! Puppy

SMAASH! Puppy

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KingofPhantoms said:
Looking forward to the reactions people will have when Swanky Kong gets revealed as the surprise CP7.
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Broke: Getting upset because Swankey Kong is in the game now.
Woke: Getting hyped because he was totally added to be a hilarious reference in the upcoming Phoenix Wright reveal trailer.
 
Dinoman96

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MintPepsi

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MooMew64 said:
He definitely has input:



In my eyes, I see this as Nintendo sets the stage with a list, saying "Here's who we're willing to get, what can you make happen?" and then Sakurai looks it over, discusses it with his team, and then informs Nintendo "I think these will work." I could be wrong, but those are the vibes I get from this quote.

I think people oversell and fixate on the "Nintendo picks the fighters" part of this quote and misinterpret it a lot. It's definitely more of a collaborative effort between the two than some may think, IMO.
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Sakurai has explained his input already. There isn't a list, Nintendo just tells him who to add. He said is allowed to decline a character but Nintendo is the one calling the shots here.
Garteam said:
Hero was picked by Sakurai for the base game, then booted to DLC because Sugiyama wanted too much of the pie for licensing his music. Just because a character has a major release on the Switch doesn't automatically mean they're a Nintendo pick. Even then, the idea of "Nintendo picks" and "Sakurai picks" is kinda misleading, seeing how character selection is implied to be a joint effort.
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What made you come to this conclusion? Interviews with Sakurai and Yuji Horii explain how Hero was picked. What really happened was that Nintendo told Sakurai that they DQ in Smash for the DLC, Sakurai was reluctant at first because he think Nintendo wouldn't be able to obtain the licensing for the series but Nintendo assured him that they could. So Sakurai went to Square Enix and pitched Hero in Smash to them.
 
I.D.

I.D.

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Calamitas said:
Idk, he's a playable character, supposedly pretty important to Rex and Pyra/Mythra's character/relationship development, and vital to a large part of the side content in the game. By all means, he should be major. But then the game just completely forgets that Vandham exists outside of sidequests, and Rok (or however you spell his name) gets maybe two more scenes. They absolutely should have had Vandham be the one to break Rex out of the Architect's dream sequence by having him ask Rex something like "Did you fight your war?" or something along those lines, but nooo.
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When Amalthus tries to control Mythra and the party's other blades, Nia quotes Vandham to encourage Rex to resist.
 
MintPepsi

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SharkLord said:
Did I hear indies?
My two cents on the matter is that after Nintendo's support towards indie games and the slowly but surely increasing indie content in Smash, I'm personally expecting an indie fighter at some point. Personally, I think the frontrunners are Reimu and Shovel Knight.

The Touhou Project is bloody everywhere in Japan, spawned an endless amount of fanworks, and has a long history behind it. Her main issue is her Japanese-centric appeal, but I don't think she's entirely out of the way from that. As of current, there are twelve Touhou games on Steam, and while they aren't officially translated, that's only because ZUN knows the fans will do it for him in a couple of days, which arguably gives a point towards her. If the creator knows there's enough of a Western fandom to do the translations for him, surely there's at least some kind of foothold there. Generally, your opinion on her is dependent on where you stand towards characters that lean more closely towards one region.

Shovel Knight, on the other hand, is more straightforward. We all know about him, his recent success story, his endless cameos, and his closeness with Nintendo. We also know about his Assist Trophy. After Min Min was chosen by her own merits and not because of being the poor man's Spring Man, I think ATs are back on the table, but that's another can of worms I don't feel like opening. Basically, it all depends on if you think ATs are still viable.

I also think FNaF has become a pretty prolific indie, but I know jacksquat about the series so I'm not qualified to say any more.
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I really doubt an indie fighter this game since what I considered to be the frontrunner for one (Sans) got mii costume'd during the DLC. I can kinda sorta see Reimu getting in but the main issue with her is that ZUN has done nothing to support the Switch really. Him and Nintendo aren't all that close which I consider to be a problem as it seems you need to be pretty close with Nintendo to get a full-on character in Smash. Nintendo doesn't really promote the Touhou series either. Her games not even getting officially localized is also a point against her. Until I see a ZUN-made Touhou game in a direct or indie world or something, I consider her one of the more unlikely indie reps.

I love Shovel Knight and I do think ATs are viable as I see no reason why they would deconfirm if spirits don't. While Nintendo does show Shovel Knight a lot of love, even publishing his game in Japan, the major roadblock in his path is his lack of popularity in Japan. However, I think the strong Nintendo relationship could definitely be enough to make up for that. I can see him happening.

FNaF is definitely a pretty notable franchise here in the west but most of its games aren't even localized in Japan, only the latest one was. Scott Cawthon (creator of FNAF) also doesn't have much of a relationship with Nintendo. A FNaF rep is definitely unlikely although I lowkey want one to get in just for giggles.
 
SharkLord

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MintPepsi said:
I really doubt an indie fighter this game since what I considered to be the frontrunner for one (Sans) got mii costume'd during the DLC. I can kinda sorta see Reimu getting in but the main issue with her is that ZUN has done nothing to support the Switch really. Him and Nintendo aren't all that close which I consider to be a problem as it seems you need to be pretty close with Nintendo to get a full-on character in Smash. Nintendo doesn't really promote the Touhou series either. Her games not even getting officially localized is also a point against her. Until I see a ZUN-made Touhou game in a direct or indie world or something, I consider her one of the more unlikely indie reps.

I love Shovel Knight and I do think ATs are viable as I see no reason why they would deconfirm if spirits don't. While Nintendo does show Shovel Knight a lot of love, even publishing his game in Japan, the major roadblock in his path is his lack of popularity in Japan. However, I think the strong Nintendo relationship could definitely be enough to make up for that. I can see him happening.

FNaF is definitely a pretty notable franchise here in the west but most of its games aren't even localized in Japan, only the latest one was. Scott Cawthon (creator of FNAF) also doesn't have much of a relationship with Nintendo. A FNaF rep is definitely unlikely although I lowkey want one to get in just for giggles.
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Yeah, it's a bit of a roadblock. Still. I'd like to note that Nintendo has sold music at Reitaisai before, so it's not like they're completely unaware of thes eries. There's also the fact that ZUN has stated that he wants Touhou in Smash; Seeing as he's just one guy, I'd imagine it would be a fair bit easier to negotiate the rights. They could probably just go in and talk it over lunch. In addition, ZUN has stated that an AoCF port for the Switch would be considered after the PS4 port (Which is coming... Eventually), so he's at least considering it. I've also heard that apparently Nintendo would "support ZUN in various ways" if he puts his stuff on their systems, though I don't know where. Could someone elaborate on that, please?

Still, those are valid points and it's true that Reimu doesn't have a clear path to Smash. I just choose to be optimistic.
 
ALongWistfulSquiggle

ALongWistfulSquiggle

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Dinoman96 said:
Here

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TBH, all I think he means is that he would like to get the pass done in a timely manner. I'm sure it would be stressful having a project stretched out longer than expected. That kind of thing can really mess with a person.
 
StarBot

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Blackmage Kuja said:
He was then sent this video later on by Nintendo
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Not to get political and off topic but I really want to quickly say
This ****ing song has been ruined to me thanks to the Republicans party
Michael the Spikester said:
Coming up is another moveset for a character by BrawlFan1. Not sure how many of you watch his videos.

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I admire this kid creativity and passion, but holy ****, why dose make his ideals needlessly complicated

This is literally a less fun version of Hero
 
NotGenerico

NotGenerico

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This new tournament being announced made me wonder if the previous Japan-only tournament showed up on the Japanese website. I thought that these type of tournaments were possibly the events that began with 3, but I looked it over at https://www-aaaba-lp1-hac.cdn.nintendo.net/ja/index.html and couldn't find it anywhere.

By the way, looking at the first Twitter announcement, these new type of tournaments are distinctly called オンラインチャレンジ (Online Challenge) instead of トーナメント (Tournament). The Mario-themed tournament was called this in the Japanese stream of the Mario 35th anniversary direct, so it seems like it'll be another one of these special tournaments. Fun fact, Yuichi Nakamura, voice actor of Jojo's Bruno Bucciarati, narrates the Japanese Directs.

I considered that the Mario tournament could have been the skipped Tournament Event, but the fact that it's part of these "Online Challenges" means that it's not going to be numbered like the other Tournaments we've had, so that provides more evidence that the skipped Tournament potentially features the next character and that this skipped Event is not the Mario tournament.

There were 11 days between the News Events that were pushed forward and the Min Min announcement, so I'm expecting a new character announcement in less than 2 weeks. That is of course, if the skipped tournament is in fact the one that accompanies every new character.
 
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Michael the Spikester

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NotGenerico said:
This new tournament being announced made me wonder if the previous Japan-only tournament showed up on the Japanese website. I thought that these type of tournaments were possibly the events that began with 3, but I looked it over at https://www-aaaba-lp1-hac.cdn.nintendo.net/ja/index.html and couldn't find it anywhere.

By the way, looking at the first Twitter announcement, these new type of tournaments are distinctly called オンラインチャレンジ (Online Challenge) instead of トーナメント (Tournament). The Mario-themed tournament was called this in the Japanese stream of the Mario 35th anniversary direct, so it seems like it'll be another one of these special tournaments. Fun fact, Yuichi Nakamura, voice actor of Jojo's Bruno Bucciarati, narrates the Japanese Directs.

I considered that the Mario tournament could have been the skipped Tournament Event, but the fact that it's part of these "Online Challenges" means that it's not going to be numbered like the other Tournaments we've had, so that provides more evidence that the skipped Tournament potentially features the next character and that this skipped Event is not the Mario tournament.

There were 11 days between the News Events that were pushed forward and the Min Min announcement, so I'm expecting a new character announcement in less than 2 weeks. That is of course, if the skipped tournament is in fact the one that accompanies every new character.
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Finally someone who isn't a pessimist.
 
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Shroob

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Michael the Spikester said:
Finally someone who isn't a pessimist.
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You keep tossing around the word pessimist


When it's been you for the last few weeks hammering in how people shouldn't get excited, and being called out for it.



Pot calling kettle black much?


There's a difference between pessimism and not getting your hopes up. You really don't have any right to cry pessimism when you've BEEN one for a long ass time yourself.



Lemme try to help you understand so you can learn the difference here.


Would you rather:


Hope something's coming but look at everything with extreme skepticism and doubt, so when something DOES happen, you feel a HUGE rush of excitement

OR

Think something is 100% GUARANTEED COMING OH IT'S COMING and get REALLY HYPE only for absolutely nothing to come and then feel incredibly depressed and worn out


I know which one I'd take 100% of the time, and it's not the 2nd option.
 
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True Blue Warrior

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N3ON said:
Yes, that is also a component of it. I would say it's a component that comes second or third to the actual volume of characters, and the number of derivative additions, but their aesthetic same-ness also prompts some complaints. Though again, that also has increased over time.
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SharkLord said:
As you mentioned, they're in different art styles. When you put them in Ultimate's more subdued, semi-realistic artstyle, they all look rather same-y, especially from afar.
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I know I have made jokes about how all the Fire Emblem characters gets dismissed as various versions of Marth, but there are people who do feel that they are that samey based on visuals. One of the reasons why Pokemon gets more of a pass is that their designs are radically different in terms of body structure and silhouettes and thus comes across as more diverse to a casual observer compared to Fire Emblem. It’s not the main reason why Fire Emblem gets hate, but the perceived redundancy doesn’t help.
 
N3ON

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True Blue Warrior said:
I know I have made jokes about how all the Fire Emblem characters gets dismissed as various versions of Marth, but there are people who do feel that they are that samey based on visuals. One of the reasons why Pokemon gets more of a pass is that their designs are radically different in terms of body structure and silhouettes and thus comes across as more diverse to a casual observer compared to Fire Emblem. It’s not the main reason why Fire Emblem gets hate, but the perceived redundancy doesn’t help.
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It's in the same vein as people judging sword-wielders as somehow derivatives of each other based on a shared weapon. It's a purely visual similarity, considering the major differences in actual playstyles. I'm not going to outright invalidate peoples' desire for visual diversity, which is what it boils down to, because I personally support it in terms of preferring a mix of cartoony and realistic additions, and some others do more on identity related grounds... but ultimately I don't feel it's nearly as important as a multitude of other factors.

Though to be fair, unlike that generalization, half of the FE roster does stem from the same moveset, which compounds the feeling of them being facsimiles of each other. Obviously there are differences, and that criticism is not entirely founded, but I understand the complaint more than I would for most series.

SharkLord said:
Oh, I just remembered. Isn't Nintendo Dream tomorrow? D'you think the game announced there would be worthwhile, or is it just filler like the Bakugan Treehouse.
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We're not really in the era of magazines having big exclusive reveals anymore, so consider me surprised if it's a noteworthy title.
 
SharkLord

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True Blue Warrior said:
I know I have made jokes about how all the Fire Emblem characters gets dismissed as various versions of Marth, but there are people who do feel that they are that samey based on visuals. One of the reasons why Pokemon gets more of a pass is that their designs are radically different in terms of body structure and silhouettes and thus comes across as more diverse to a casual observer compared to Fire Emblem. It’s not the main reason why Fire Emblem gets hate, but the perceived redundancy doesn’t help.
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Yeah, they have all the different archetypes to go off of, but they only go with the Lords and Avatars. To wit:
  • Marth-Lord
  • Lucina-Lord
  • Roy-Lord
  • Chrom-Lord
  • Ike-Mercenary-styled Lord
  • Robin-Magic-leaning Avatar
  • Corrin-Avatar/Lord mix, with Manakete elements
  • Byleth-Physical-leaning Avatar
Doesn't help that said archetypes mainly go with swords. We could at least get a lance Lord with Ephraim, a White Mage-styled Lord like Michaiah, or a Myrmidon-styled Lord like Lyn, but it almost always sticks with characters that overlap with others, be it in design, archetype, weapon, or fighting style. It's not the quantity of the FE reps that bothers me so much as the quality. Still, at least Byleth gave us the entire weapon triangle.

But let's not go back to circular discussions about the Fire Emblem reps we already have. Instead, how about we discuss some Fire Emblem fighters that we actually want.
 
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G

Guynamednelson

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SharkLord said:
Yeah, they have all the different archetypes to go off of, but they only go with the Lords and Avatars. To wit:
  • Marth-Lord
  • Lucina-Lord
  • Roy-Lord
  • Chrom-Lord
  • Ike-Mercenary-styled Lord
  • Robin-Magic-leaning Avatar
  • Corrin-Avatar/Lord mix, with Manakete elements
  • Byleth-Physical-leaning Avatar
Doesn't help that said archetypes mainly go with swords. We could at least get a lance Lord with Ephraim, a White Mage-styled Lord like Michaiah, or a Myrmidon-styled Lord like Lyn, but it almost always sticks with characters that overlap with others, be it in design, archetype, weapon, or fighting style. It's not the quantity of the FE reps that bothers me so much as the quality. Still, at least Byleth gave us the entire weapon triangle.

But let's not go back to circular discussions about the Fire Emblem reps we already have. Instead, how about we discuss some Fire Emblem fighters that we actually want.
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I'm sorry for continuing such discussions, but there's also how the majority of them are either zoners or can be played at a distance, Roy being the sole exception. Because of this, I'd say Roy is in a weird limbo of contributing both variety and repetition to FE reps. He's a sword lord and a Marth clone, but at the same time he's the only one who is not in any way, shape, or form, a distance demon. And his hair is red instead of blue.
 
cashregister9

cashregister9

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SharkLord said:
But let's not go back to circular discussions about the Fire Emblem reps we already have. Instead, how about we discuss some Fire Emblem fighters that we actually want.
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Tiki, Full on Manakete

Anna, Is a sword, bow and axe wielder

Tsubasa Oribe, Spear wielder who also has Magic
 
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