Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Momotsuki]

I think high saturation of western picks is a good, relatively easy way to know a claim is bogus, but I don't think Dante would qualify for that at all.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Popularity not being the be-all end-all doesn't mean sales are irrelevant.
It's also interesting that the most used argument in favor of Dante is the classic "game comes to Switch = Smash" which gets mocked for almost any other character.

I didn’t say sales are irrelevant, I said that it doesn’t mean there’s a hierarchy of character selection based on sales numbers. Sales are great, but there’s much more to it than that.

Also, Devil May Cry 3 having a special edition isn’t quite the same as any particular series/game just getting ported to Switch, at least I would argue.
-
On a separate note, how does anybody see Dante as a western pick? He’s a Capcom property. It’s also not as if he’s only popular in the west either.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Look I just don’t want a pass that’s filled with western shills like geno Chief Dante & crash all together I’m just trying to find an alternative that seems like Somthing Nintendo can pick & can refresh the speculation scene

Do you think "shill" just means "character I don't want"?

 

[N3ON]

Look I just don’t want a pass that’s filled with western shills like geno Chief Dante & crash all together I’m just trying to find an alternative that seems like Somthing Nintendo can pick & can refresh the speculation scene

You do know that Crash is pretty decently popular in Japan as far as Smash picks, and Dante is like top five, maybe top three most wanted there, yeah?

And then you have basically the rest of the world that would be elated about Master Chief. His inclusion would be monumental.

I can't consider any of those bad picks, and two are among the fast-dwindling pool of characters that still have fairly strong global popularity. So if those are "shill picks" of any kind, I hope we get more of them.

 

[Speed Weed]

Forget the PCB, he was the runner-up for the Smash slot

We all slept on him pretty hard, including myself. Could you imagine if he was actually chosen? Lol

i mean it makes sense he was slept on when you consider that to like 90% of people min min and twintelle were the only two characters in arms

 

[PLANTMAN]

....I mean, according to that one article taken awhile back, Dante is 'the' most expected character to get in according to Japanese fans tbh, I wouldn't really call him a "Western shill" when his appeal is universal.

Look I said that just because some members in one of the discord server I’m on expects those 4 all together it’s so unrealistic Like this Doesn't feel like a Nintendo picked lineup that idk what to think about

 

[Mushroomguy12]

The fact that I’m somewhat of a Dante stan aside- using Monster Hunter sales as a reason for why it would get in over Devil May Cry is interesting considering Resident Evil (known as Biohazard in Japan) got spirited.

And on the flip side, using Devil May Cry sales as a reason for why it would get in over Ace Attorney is equally as "interesting", for the same reasons you mentioned about Resident Evil getting spirited.

 

[SharkLord]

I don’t have much to say, but I’ll say this much.

The fact that I’m somewhat of a Dante stan aside- using Monster Hunter sales as a reason for why it would get in over Devil May Cry is interesting considering Resident Evil (known as Biohazard in Japan) got spirited.

Would still just point out that when Itsuno was interviewed about Dante, there was a specific conversation about Dante in Smash, to which he said, “He should probably be on a Nintendo platform first before he’s in Smash”, which was then followed by DMC1-3 on Switch, with a special exclusive version of DMC3 with big fan requested changes.

Doesn’t mean he’s in by any means, but it absolutely does not hurt him.

Seeing as Devil May Cry spiraled off of the original concept for Resident Evil 4, this honestly doesn't come off as much of a surprise.

To be honest, we've had so much conflicting info that speculation for me has just become "Eh, anything goes." Back-to-back, we got a recent success story with little Nintendo relations, an absolute gaming legend, a Nintendo-centric fan-favorite, an older, iconic-yet-niche character, and a recent Nintendo release. It's hard to go off of patterns when everyone seems to have been chosen based on a different mindset.

 

[I.D.]

Also, Devil May Cry 3 having a special edition isn’t quite the same as any particular series/game just getting ported to Switch, at least I would argue.

I didn't say "ported". I'm referring to a general line of thought that is usually mocked: that if a game is coming to Switch, people immediately think it might be something Smash related. Monster Hunter itself goes through the same thing.

 

[PLANTMAN]

I just want a pass that feels like Nintendo picked these characters for a reason not some flavor of the week characters I keep seeing everywhere on twitter

 

[Momotsuki]

I'm not sure I think sales mean as much as some people think. Besides Nintendo meddling like we've seen with Byleth, I think character selection has a lot more to do with other factors than commercial ones. Sakurai's veto power and general popularity of characters (especially in Japan, but the west certainly isn't without influence) seems to carry more weight. Though I'm sure the commercial element isn't completely absent, especially when negotiating with third parties.

 

[Shroob]

I just want a pass that feels like Nintendo picked these characters for a reason not some flavor of the week characters I keep seeing everywhere on twitter

I mean, we got MinMin, and all of last Pass.


I dunno how that doesn't feel like Nintendo. Who the **** was talking about Terry or Byleth nonstop?

 

[Will]

who the **** said dante was a western character you can't be that ignorant

I just want a pass that feels like Nintendo picked these characters for a reason not some flavor of the week characters I keep seeing everywhere on twitter

nintendo chose an ARMS advertisement, that's worse than a "flavor of the week" if you ask me

 

[Lamperouge]

Forget the PCB, he was the runner-up for the Smash slot

We all slept on him pretty hard, including myself. Could you imagine if he was actually chosen? Lol

Ninjara is one of my least favorite characters from ARMS so I would've been pretty disappointed, NGL.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Ninjara is one of my least favorite characters from ARMS so I would've been pretty disappointed, NGL.

On the contrary, he was pretty much my ARMS secondary so he would've made a good back-up for me, all things considered hehe

 

[N3ON]

I just want a pass that feels like Nintendo picked these characters for a reason not some flavor of the week characters I keep seeing everywhere on twitter

Next week Crash, Dante and Master Chief will still be requested. Same with the week after.
And the year after, if they're still not in. Unless they're included or deconfirmed, they're not going anywhere.

I understand wanting surprises, but I think you're focusing on the wrong targets if you believe these to be flavour of the week. These are fan favourites, and will prove to be perennial. Crash has already been a big request for the entirety of this game.

To be real, you're kinda throwing around common detractor buzzwords like shill and flavour of the week without any of them really applying.

 

[Droodle]

I don’t have much to say, but I’ll say this much.

The fact that I’m somewhat of a Dante stan aside- using Monster Hunter sales as a reason for why it would get in over Devil May Cry is interesting considering Resident Evil (known as Biohazard in Japan) got spirited.

Would still just point out that when Itsuno was interviewed about Dante, there was a specific conversation about Dante in Smash, to which he said, “He should probably be on a Nintendo platform first before he’s in Smash”, which was then followed by DMC1-3 on Switch, with a special exclusive version of DMC3 with big fan requested changes.

Doesn’t mean he’s in by any means, but it absolutely does not hurt him.

For me it's a mixture of sales, the upcoming Switch (exclusive?) release which allows for promotional appeal, and the fact that Capcom has made an internal shift to focus more on the release of MH with 2 rather big internal teams working on MH at any given time; Team A should probably be switching over to World 2 right now, B team was the team that likely did MH Switch, there's also rumors of another stories game eventually coming out. DMC will likely continue, but it's always going to be a Playstation first with a switch port down the years type of series. The same applies with RE nowadays, it's a very Playstation first kind of series. MH seems more of a "Nintendo gets their own line, Playstation/PC get their own line".

On top of that, Nintendo themselves do like MH a ton; as can be seen by the fact that nearly all MH games on the 3DS got dedicated directs (only in JP). Again, the best I can say is that I get the same feeling as the "DQ hunch" where a lot of things were lining up for the series before it got into Smash. Right now Capcom is highlighting MH GEN U with their TGS sale, and we'll likely see a brand new announcement for the Switch next week, all that MH lacks is a serious rumor for Smash, but if it does; it'll literally be brave 2.0.

Again this isn't to undersell Dante either. Because he to does have points going in his favor, it's just that I'd say MH has more points.
For me, a Capcom rep is really likely, and if it ends up being Monster Hunter OR Dante, I wouldn't really be surprised at all. If it's someone else, I'd be shocked.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I just want a pass that feels like Nintendo picked these characters for a reason not some flavor of the week characters I keep seeing everywhere on twitter

You think "Because fans want this character" isn't a good enough reason?

 

[Momotsuki]

While I'm not terribly interested in Dante, Master Chief, Crash, ect ect., I don't see how you could call them "flavor of the week characters". Most of these characters have been rather popular requests for a respectably long time, even if some were never really seen as a viable possibility in past speculation climates.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I didn't say "ported". I'm referring to a general line of thought that is usually mocked: that if a game is coming to Switch, people immediately think it might be something Smash related. Monster Hunter itself goes through the same thing.

Honestly I feel like it could be seen both ways- casting it as, “WOW you guys think everything with a game on Switch is suddenly likely?!?” Does point out how often people do it, and while I do think it’s overused I don’t think it’s the worst thing somebody could point out in favor of a pick.

I think if we just assume that not every character will be picked on that basis we’re good.

 

[Will]

If Crash mother****ing Bandicoot is "Flavor of the Week" then it must be Crash flavored every week.

 

[Lamperouge]

On the contrary, he was pretty much my ARMS secondary so he would've made a good back-up for me, all things considered hehe

Then we'd have to make way for Smashing Ninja.

 

[Schnee117]

Geno of all characters being called a "shill" is sending me.

 

[Shroob]

If Crash mother****ing Bandicoot is "Flavor of the Week" then it must be Crash flavored every week.

**** yeah, every day is Bandicoot day

 

[PLANTMAN]

I’m sorry everyone I’m just not that good of a speller

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I just want a pass that feels like Nintendo picked these characters for a reason not some flavor of the week characters I keep seeing everywhere on twitter

Wait wait, Chief and Crash are considered flavor of the week? Man I didn’t realize that 2 decades counted as a week.

 

[Lamperouge]

I’m sorry everyone I’m just not that good of a speller

Subpar spelling ability aside, that's no excuse for your flawed argument.

 

[PLANTMAN]

Wait wait, Chief and Crash are considered flavor of the week? Man I didn’t realize that 2 decades counted as a week.

LOOK IM SORRY OK I just didn’t spell it good enough

 

[Momotsuki]

I’m sorry everyone I’m just not that good of a speller

I hate it when I try to type and I just find "shill" sitting right there on the screen.

 

[Spongeboob]

I'm starting to question whether or not "shilling" is even a factor when it comes to DLC fighters. Maybe base roster with characters like , but that's as far as it goes. I don't think any of the DLC first parties are shill picks, or if I think they are, I don't think that's 100% the case.

 

[SharkLord]

I hate it when I try to type and I just find "shill" sitting right there on the screen.

I can relate. All I want to do is say "shell." "Shell." That's all I'm trying to say. I can't explain the biology of the Japanese spider crab without saying "shell," so it's very annoying when I type "shill" instead. E and I aren't even close together, which makes the whole thing even more ridiculous.

 

[Glaciacott]

You guys are doing that thing again where literally everyone is ganging up on one person. If you disagree that hard, just refresh the page and notice how several other people are already disagreeing super hard and leave it at that.

 

[Momotsuki]

I can relate. All I want to do is say "shell." "Shell." That's all I'm trying to say. I can't explain the biology of the Japanese spider crab without saying "shell," so it's very annoying when I type "shill" instead. E and I aren't even close together, which makes the whole thing even more ridiculous.

It gets worse, you try and explain its diet and before you know it you've typed in "flavor of the week".

 

[N3ON]

I'm starting to question whether or not "shilling" is even a factor when it comes to DLC fighters. Maybe base roster with characters like , but that's as far as it goes. I don't think any of the DLC first parties are shill picks, or if I think they are, I don't think that's 100% the case.

I think it's hard to not be a shill pick if the character is chosen before the game comes out.

Especially if the series a) already has a fair amount of representation and b) has a history of similar inclusions.

But I would say that most of the DLC has not been shill picks. I don't even think Hero was. Though making Luminary the default, perhaps.

 

[Dinoman96]

I'm starting to question whether or not "shilling" is even a factor when it comes to DLC fighters. Maybe base roster with characters like , but that's as far as it goes. I don't think any of the DLC first parties are shill picks, or if I think they are, I don't think that's 100% the case.

Well, Byleth was selected in 2018, before FE3H even came out. That sounds pretty promotional to me.

 

[Perkilator]

On the contrary, he was pretty much my ARMS secondary so he would've made a good back-up for me, all things considered hehe

He would've made a goude Echo for Min Min, at the very least.

 

[Shroob]

I think it's hard to not be a shill pick if the character is chosen before the game comes out.

Especially if the series a) already has a fair amount of representation and b) has a history of similar inclusions.

But I would say that most of the DLC has not been shill picks. I don't even think Hero was. Though making Luminary the default, perhaps.

It's extra weird since they made it so Hero now shows up in the 80's section of All Star mode, but still uses Luminary as his costume.

 

[I.D.]

But I would say that most of the DLC has not been shill picks. I don't even think Hero was. Though making Luminary the default, perhaps.

Ehhhh. For a good while Hero in Smash and Dragon Quest XI S were always paired together in every event they appeared in. Nintendo and Square really, really liked to remind us that this cross promotion was happening. Hero coming exclusively with mii costumes from his own series only is also a privilege only granted to him so far.

 

[PLANTMAN]

I try to say I’m sorry but instead you still criticize me
So you know what I’ll say you’re right I was wrong to say that & I am a fool

no, I’m more than that

I’m an big fool

one who dosent think before doing things shills an overated xb2 character & just disagrees with everything so yeah I am a big fool

good day to you all

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

He would've made a goude Echo for Min Min, at the very least.

Eh... He's moreso semiclone material

I will admit that Chakram being essentially a flameless Ram Ram would work to his advantage haha