Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Spoiler: Image

Ok what is that? I can't tell if I love it or hate it. I love the design, and I love that color green, but I also kinda hate the green here. I've never been so conflicted on how much I like a color...

Does anyone else think they'll reveal characters in their own character presentations from now on? Kind of like Byleth and Min Min?

If there's another E3, we'll see at least one in a Nintendo Direct, otherwise that's probably going to be the norm. We may even see the return of Super Smash Bros. for Wii U DLC style trailers.

 

[7NATOR]

those general eshop maintenances usually coincide with smash if a character is dropped. i recall it was that way for joker and min min at least

I see now. Well if it is the 14th, I hope we also don't have to wait that long for a reveal. I rather reveal next week, Release the 14th, rather than Both on the 14th

Does anyone else think they'll reveal characters in their own character presentations from now on? Kind of like Byleth and Min Min?

Well if we really aren't getting General Directs like that anymore, I could see that happening. I guess the worst part though is that we will have to wait longer in between reveals probably, as they'd probably just wait to show Trailer and Character Presentation at Same time. Perhaps they could also do more guessing games

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ok what is that? I can't tell if I love it or hate it. I love the design, and I love that color green, but I also kinda hate the green here. I've never been so conflicted on how much I like a color.


If there's another E3, we'll see at least one in a Nintendo Direct, otherwise that's probably going to be the norm. We may even see the return Super Smash Bros. for Wii U DLC style trailers.

i would hope not, they got animators for Min Min's trailer, went all out for Hero and Banjo with CGI, and Joker & Terry had stylized animations too

what WOULD be cool is surprise Robin/Lucina style shadowdropped trailers with a release date at the end

 

[Deleted member]

Ok what is that? I can't tell if I love it or hate it. I love the design, and I love that color green, but I also kinda hate the green here. I've never been so conflicted on how much I like a color...

It is Duke Fishron.

This is his real form.

i would hope not, they got animators for Min Min's trailer, went all out for Hero and Banjo with CGI, and Joker & Terry had stylized animations too

what WOULD be cool is surprise Robin/Lucina style shadowdropped trailers with a release date at the end

All of the DLC had nice reveal trailers. They got the Three Houses animators to animate Byleth's trailer probably.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Um, what? No it's not. I mean, you could argue that The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild has light RPG elements if you were to stretch it a bit but the series otherwise has nothing to do with the genre.

The Paper Mario: Sticker Star trilogy on the other hand is built up using RPG mechanics as the foundation. Even the Adventure genre's mechanics are woven into the RPG mechanics rather than the other way around. Granted, they gutted the progression system which is what makes RPGs work so they're awful, but they're still RPGs.

The progression system is what makes a game an RPG, not having turn-based combat. That's why you can have Action RPGs, and why you can have turn-based games that aren't RPGs, such as strategy games.

 

[Shroob]

Hoo boy are we about to have the age old debate of what makes an RPG an RPG?



This won't end well.

 

[TwiceEXE]

Hoo boy are we about to have the age old debate of what makes an RPG an RPG?



This won't end well.

I've personally always viewed RPGs in the "I know it when I see it" camp.

 

[7NATOR]

Well since Mario stuff is on everyone's mind, and also Geno, I've wanted to ask but...

If Geno really is FP7, Would that make people think that FP2 is more of a "Budget" Pass, even more than FP1, in that it might be more lower budget than FP1? If that's the case, would characters like Crash, Chief, etc cost too much money?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

i would hope not, they got animators for Min Min's trailer, went all out for Hero and Banjo with CGI, and Joker & Terry had stylized animations too

I was just thinking that since Nintendo's marketing team seems to have been hit the hardest, they may have to do the rest of (or at least some of) the character's trailers in engine. Hopefully they won't, but I do think it's a possibility.

It is Duke Fishron.

This is his real form.

Spoiler: Image

I still have so many questions...

EDIT: I think I have settled on liking him though.

All of the DLC had nice reveal trailers. They got the Three Houses animators to animate Byleth's trailer probably.

A lot of it was recycled, but yeah, you're probably right.

Hoo boy are we about to have the age old debate of what makes an RPG an RPG?



This won't end well.

Yeah I won't go any further with that. I still stand that the Paper Mario: Sticker Star trilogy are definitely RPGs though. It's kind of their problem. If they were Adventure games then they'd actually be quite decent...Well maybe not Paper Mario: Sticker Star, but the rest, yeah.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Hoo boy are we about to have the age old debate of what makes an RPG an RPG?



This won't end well.

RPG is a role playing game, video games don't literally have you as the playable character but at best, preset avatars that can look kinda like you. I am, of course, saying that every video game is a role playing game

 

[Cosmic77]

Who put all their eggs in one basket? We were discussing yesterday that a shadowdrop of something seemed likely based on a number of factors and you were just dismissing us the whole time. Now you're here pretending we were in the wrong all along just because one of the multiple potential shadowdrops we theorized about didn't happen.

I just knew that a lot of things would've needed to happen today in order for everything to perfectly fall into place.

General Directs have never been shadowdropped before, so I was already lowkey expecting something small like a mini. Emily Rogers and a few others buckled down on 3D Mario All-Stars, so unless the character was related to Mario, we would've needed a mini for a Smash reveal. Then there's the Sakurai presents videos. We would've needed one of those sometime before the character released.

That was a lot of stuff that needed to play out just right, which is why I thought something wasn't going to pan out the way people expected.

 

[TwiceEXE]

Well since Mario stuff is on everyone's mind, and also Geno, I've wanted to ask but...

If Geno really is FP7, Would that make people think that FP2 is more of a "Budget" Pass, even more than FP1, in that it might be more lower budget than FP1? If that's the case, would characters like Crash, Chief, etc cost too much money?

I would not, because I have literally no idea what Nintendo is paying to license these characters. Speculating without information doesn't lead to anything.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

RPG is a role playing game, video games don't literally have you as the playable character but at best, preset avatars that can look kinda like you. I am, of course, saying that every video game is a role playing game

This is why Kirby's my favorite: He's the spitting image of me!

 

[Schnee117]

Hoo boy are we about to have the age old debate of what makes an RPG an RPG?



This won't end well.

The only true RPG is a Grenade that is Propelled by a Rocket.

 

[cashregister9]

Where the heck did the whole "Fighter's Pass 2 has a lower budget" thing come from? I don't remember Sakurai saying anything like that but I could just be remembering wrong.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The only true RPG is a Grenade that is Propelled by a Rocket.

Ya know, when I told my friend I got RPG Maker he actually thought I was going to make bombs.

Where the heck did the whole "Fighter's Pass 2 has a lower budget" thing come from? I don't remember Sakurai saying anything like that but I could just be remembering wrong.

He did make a budget cuts joke, but that was like 5 characters ago. I guess people are combining that with Min Min begin first party.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Even if a Nintendo Direct finally gets announced some people are going to be like this after it happens.

Well I saw the Mario Direct and this totally was my reaction. I was pretty disappointed with what the 3D Collection actually was. I was expecting some upscaling and fixing the glaring issues 64 and Sunshine had. Heck I'm disappointed it wasn't the DS 64 version. The best thing to come out from this was the 3D World port and Bowser's Fury mode. Hoping a new playable character is added and that it's Daisy.

 

[SharkLord]

Where the heck did the whole "Fighter's Pass 2 has a lower budget" thing come from? I don't remember Sakurai saying anything like that but I could just be remembering wrong.

Mostly speculation. I think it's partially tied to the concept of a first-party focused pass. Still, since all we have is Min Min, we don't have enough to go off of.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The best thing to come out from this was the 3D World port and Bowser's Fury mode.

Ugh. I cannot stop reading this as Bowser's Furry.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Where the heck did the whole "Fighter's Pass 2 has a lower budget" thing come from? I don't remember Sakurai saying anything like that but I could just be remembering wrong.

He never said it, but it's just speculation because a lot of fighting games (or games in general) have lower budget as time goes on. Also the fact that they have like 1 more year to make 1 more fighter makes me think that the team is smaller.

That being said, even if the budget is indeed smaller I don't see how that would affect that much characters choices.

 

[Cosmic77]

The budget might've made Sakurai work with a smaller team than what he had in the first pass, which would explain why he was given such a long deadline even before the pandemic.

As for whether or not this pass's character choices will be cheaper than the first, it's too soon to say. Min Min alone isn't enough to draw a conclusion.

 

[TriggerX]

Hoo boy are we about to have the age old debate of what makes an RPG an RPG?



This won't end well.

Agreed, such a pointless argument to even give attention to. Games have changed so much these past years that a lot of them are just blends of multiple genres. Some are more obvious than others, but a lot of games like Legend of Zelda are in a bit of a Grey area . Lol breath of the wild for example isn’t much different from a game like Horizon Zero dawn. And that game is often labeled as an action role playing game.

It’s funny seeing people trying to convince the other that their view is right though.

 

[Shroob]

Ugh. I cannot stop reading this as Bowser's Furry.

Considering 3D World


Technically correct

 

[7NATOR]

Where the heck did the whole "Fighter's Pass 2 has a lower budget" thing come from? I don't remember Sakurai saying anything like that but I could just be remembering wrong.

It's not anything confirmed

It's just an hypothesis, based on a few factors

1. Usually later Season Passes don't make a much money due to Diminishing returns and such. Not as many people are playing the game as they were near launch. It's likely not as much Money as FP1 could be going into FP2

2. The Deadline (if it's not a Placeholder) suggests that perhaps less staff than even FP1 is working on FP2.

3. Min-Min being the First character

4. To My Knowledge, Nintendo doesn't usually do extra Passes like these anyway, like say Capcom would do. They do have DLC, but usually ones that seemed to be Planned while base game is in development. FP2 is a case of DLC Being Decided just because FP1 did so well, but that doesn't mean they are gonna up the budget. the Pass was said to be extra. We don't know how many people are gonna want to spend on extra $30 on top of the $60 and $25, so they might actually invest less, but just enough to get extra profit and stuff

 

[Schnee117]

Dev sizes for games typically shrink as more and more DLC and Updates come out
Some people who worked on the first pass would probably have moved on regardless, most people really don't want to work on the same game for too long.

 

[BZocky]

Does this mean Wario is confirmed for Smash Bros?

... what would he even do? throw coins at people?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Lol breath of the wild for example isn’t much different from a game like Horizon Zero dawn. And that game is often labeled as an action role playing game.

Wat?

If Hoizon: Zero Dawn is classified under the same category as Xenoblade Chronicles, I think our genres broke.

 

[Icedragonadam]

He never said it, but it's just speculation because a lot of fighting games (or games in general) have lower budget as time goes on. Also the fact that they have like 1 more year to make 1 more fighter makes me think that the team is smaller.

That being said, even if the budget is indeed smaller I don't see how that would affect that much characters choices.

Well the 3rd party characters and their content vary in costs to license depending on the company and IP owner. Licensing from a company like SNK is pretty cheap with the vast amount of content we got from them. And then you look at the content from Square Enix and the whole music licensing nightmare with the composers.

Sora would be very expensive to get simply on Disney alone even when you factor out Square Enix. They're very controlling of their IPs and the collabs they do with other companies. Almost all of the collabs/DLC they did with other game companies were time limited.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Well the 3rd party characters and their content vary in costs to license depending on the company and IP owner. Licensing from a company like SNK is pretty cheap with the vast amount of content we got from them. And then you look at the content from Square Enix and the whole music licensing nightmare with the composers.

Sora would be very expensive to get simply on Disney alone even when you factor out Square Enix. They're very controlling of their IPs and the collabs they do with other companies. Almost all of the collabs/DLC they did with other game companies were time limited.

how costly would you say 2B or Neku is?

 

[cashregister9]

Ugh. I cannot stop reading this as Bowser's Furry.

I mean it did give us this

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Icedragonadam]

how costly would you say 2B or Neku is?

Well I guess if it depends on if they have the same issues with the music like with Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest have. Otherwise I think they'll be cheaper.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

how costly would you say 2B or Neku is?

It's probably a case by case basis:

• Every individual thing from Final Fantasy seems to be owned by a different person.
• Dragon Quest has trouble getting their music in their own games.

The answer to the question would be who owns them, and what's their history with crossovers and stuff. I know 2B has been added to a lot (apparently even Fall Guys just on a whim), so she's probably fine. Neku has only crossed over with Kingdom Hearts as far as I know so there's probably not a way to tell.

 

[SNEKeater]

Mario 3D collection being full priced and only available for a limited time sets a very bleak precedent for what nintendo can get away with in the future.

I mean Nintendo releasing remasters or ports at 60 bucks isn't really new, but releasing a game for a limited time is certainly something I wouldn't have expected for a Mario release.

Not that releasing old games for 60 bucks is fine, it's not. You have the Crash Trilogy, which were 3 games with a great graphic upgrades or big remakes such as the Shadow of the Colossus, with fantastic visuals, for 40 bucks, while Nintendo re-releases are usually minimum effort, with barely visual upgrades and sold at full price.
Nintendo will get away with this, just like they did with their approach to remasters and ports.

 

[SirBillyBob]

You hate to see it.

Credit to SunnyTheLuke on Twitter.

 

[Perkilator]

Ugh. I cannot stop reading this as Bowser's Furry.

Should've called it "Bowser's Furry Fury".

 

[Garteam]

Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest were only as expensive as they were because there are a lot of hands in the pot and they're massive, multibillion dollar franchises. With the exception of KIngdom Hearts' obvious, mouse-shaped problems, I don't think any other Square series would suffer the same fate.

That being said, the reality of Nintendo not having an infinitely deep purse for the purposes of Smash licensing is a realistic factor. There's only so much money can be budgeted towards big IPs before corporate suits start raising some eyebrows. Even looking at the last pass, we got 4 new third party characters but only one was a major money sink. The other three all hailed from fan favourite yet smaller franchises.

It's why I can't help but raise eyebrows at people who are expecting a lineup of, say, Crash, Master Chief, Sora, Dante, and Kratos. I just can't see a world where Nintendo goes all in to that insane of a degree. I definitely see one of those characters within that type of tier making the cut, but two and especially more than two always feels like we're leaving the realms of reality.

 

[MooMew64]

Hoo boy are we about to have the age old debate of what makes an RPG an RPG?



This won't end well.

Aren't all games technically RPGs since you're playing the role of the character? When you get down to it, aren't we all just living in this great big RPG we call life?

Really makes you think.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I don't know too much about Namco-Bandai structure but I suppose that their employes rotate between projects and Namco-Bandai wanted some smash stuff to move on to other next gen projects (like future Tekken/Soul Calibur installments). There wasn't in their original plans a second fighter pass so N-B probably negotiate to give it the ok (as they lend the manpower) with the condition of moving stuff to other areas and reduce Sakurai's team.

 

[Deleted member]

That being said, the reality of Nintendo not having an infinitely deep purse for the purposes of Smash licensing is a realistic factor. There's only so much money can be budgeted towards big IPs before corporate suits start raising some eyebrows. Even looking at the last pass, we got 4 new third party characters but only one was a major money sink. The other three all hailed from fan favourite yet smaller franchises.

What character was a major money sink?

 

[ZelDan]

Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest were only as expensive as they were because there are a lot of hands in the pot and they're massive, multibillion dollar franchises. With the exception of KIngdom Hearts' obvious, mouse-shaped problems, I don't think any other Square series would suffer the same fate.

That being said, the reality of Nintendo not having an infinitely deep purse for the purposes of Smash licensing is a realistic factor. There's only so much money can be budgeted towards big IPs before corporate suits start raising some eyebrows. Even looking at the last pass, we got 4 new third party characters but only one was a major money sink. The other three all hailed from fan favourite yet smaller franchises.

It's why I can't help but raise eyebrows at people who are expecting a lineup of, say, Crash, Master Chief, Sora, Dante, and Kratos. I just can't see a world where Nintendo goes all in to that insane of a degree. I definitely see one of those characters within that type of tier making the cut, but two and especially more than two always feels like we're leaving the realms of reality.

budgeting and the fact that I don't think Sakurai would be predictable enough to make FP2 look like what thousands of smash fan prediction/dream rosters look like is why I doubt we'd have the rest of FP2 be nothing but the most speculated or popular video game characters. One or two maybe, but not ALL. I definitely expect to see another "Terry-esque" pick or picks, or another character that will fly under many peoples' radars but make complete sense in hindsight.