Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[cashregister9]

Well, I can see people are starting to get annoyed at Geno talk...

So let's talk about Lloyd!

Lloyd Poll!

Let's do a poll about Lloyd.

forms.gle

I made a poll about Lloyd. Please take some time to take it.


EDIT: Try this one instead. I fixed one problem.

Lloyd Poll!

Let's do a poll about Lloyd.

forms.gle

When it comes to Tales of i'm stuck between Lloyd and Yuri. Lloyd was already that Mii costume but i'm not sure if that gives him an advantage over Yuri who is consistently voted the most popular Tales of character.

 

[Karen6969]

Moral of the story, Porky would be sick in Smash

Yesssss. I’ve wanted him for so long. It would be really neat to get another villain!

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

In the midst of geno discourse, let’s all take a moment to bow down to our lord and savior Rick the Hamster

 

[cosmicB]

If I'm being honest, with almost 100 characters, it's hard for a new character not to resemble a pre-existing one in some way, but I get your point. His moves can be similar to Mii Gunner and Mega Man, you're absolutely right no doubt about it. I just trust that Sakurai can take Geno's moves from SMRPG and make something unique from it, because he can do that. If he can turn Fox and Captain Falcon into unique characters, he can do it with just about anyone.

-----------

This isn't targeted towards anyone in particular, but I feel like Geno is just an easy target. If I were to bring up my criticisms or opinions on Fire Emblem, I would likely be lambasted out of the thread. Everyone's got their own tastes in characters and everyone's opinions should be welcome, I'm not saying end Geno criticism because that's stupid. But I never see any character get like a page of criticism aside from Geno.

I'm also not saying that stating "I don't find Geno likely" is a bad thing at all, because everyone finds characters to be unlikely. But there's always just posts talking about how stupid Geno would be, but c'mon now, when people say stuff like that about other characters it becomes a problem.

Something to keep in mind is we're paying for these characters. With Ultimate in general, Sakurai's mindset seems to be that these DLC characters should be held to a higher standard in terms of unique movesets compared to base game characters (obviously not in the sense of being "better"). Joker's Arsene, Hero's menu, Banjo's Wonderwing, Terry's GO, Byleth's weapon triangle, Min Min's atypical specials and aerial smash attacks; all of these bring something new to the table. Now how would Geno fit in here? A star gauge? Timed button presses? Personally, it just feels kind of underwhelming, though that isn't to say Sakurai can't make it work because, well, it's Sakurai. If Geno gets in, I'll try him out, consider his competitive viability and whether he fits my playstyle, and then I'll move on to wishing the next character is someone I care about more.

And yeah, Geno is absolutely an easy target, at least on Smashboards. The fanbase has been around forever and when the topic of discussion keeps coming back to him, it's going to start to grate on some people. That leads to pushback that may be disproportionate, which just creates a cycle of hostility until people in the Geno thread genuinely start considering themselves an oppressed minority and drawing parallels to the treatment of Uighur Muslims in China (yes, this is an actual thing that happened). It sucks for the fans that aren't insane which I would assume are the majority of them, and especially the ones that are able to venture outside of their thread. But the way people perceive these things is going to affect what they say, and that's just going to reflect back on the character in question, who doesn't deserve that level of vitriol at all.

 

[Staarih]

That being said, I genuinely just want him in at this point so that his fans can stop hijacking every speculation thread to circle jerk about his chances amidst very circumstantial “evidence”

I’m kinda(?) in this mindset as well, not that I think there’s a lot of ”hijacking threads” but the overall speculation around Geno nowadays is just horrible because it’s all ”insider this” or ”pattern that” or ”timeline so”. Which I guess would be fine if the actual character would also be talked about. It’s one of the reasons I’ve begun to avoid the Geno thread, even though I personally like Geno and want him in Smash. I just can’t with the speculation haha! Ridley and K. Rool found their peace so I’m just ready for the same to happen for Geno.

 

[zumaddy]

Tales of Symphonia is one of my least favourite RPGs I've ever played. So my take on Lloyd being in is uh.... not favorable. Would much rather have Yuri.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If someone says they want Ammy, but then goes "ew, why would I play Okami, I don't like action adventure games!", then I have no problem calling them a fake fan. People can obviously do what they want and there are several pros that have never played the games of their mains or desired characters, but it's not a mindset I can personally wrap my head around. Fighting game characters are more than just a moveset.

I mean, a character can still appeal to you even if you don't like the game or genre. I personally think a Resident Evil character would be cool but I'd rather not play any of the games: Too squeamish for the horror genre and zombies in particular (base form Nemisis-T Type is pretty cool though).

Also, crapping on turn-based RPGs seems to be the "cool" thing to do at the moment so do with that what you will.

This could be true for every other series.

That doesn't disprove my point though.

 

[SharkLord]

When it comes to Tales of i'm stuck between Lloyd and Yuri. Lloyd was already that Mii costume but i'm not sure if that gives him an advantage over Yuri.

I'm personally leaning towards Lloyd. He's appeared the most, he's the more popular Smash request, and his game is what popularized Tales of in the West. He's basically the Cloud of Tales. Yuri's popular with the Tales fandom, yes, but Lloyd is more emblematic of the series in general. If I were to make a comparison, I'd say Yuri is like Tidus; Popular with the Japanese fans, but not as iconic. That being said, I don't know if Yuri's popularity is worldwide or concentrated in Japan, so I'll probably be corrected on that one.

Lloyd just appeals to me more, too. He looks cooler and stands out visually, and dual-wielding is something sorely underrepresented in Smash. He's definitely on to something with his "One sword awesome, two swords moreso" mindset.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Tbh I would rather have Mallow instead of Geno.

Mallow is more interesting.

 

[Karen6969]

I’m kinda(?) in this mindset as well, not that I think there’s a lot of ”hijacking threads” but the overall speculation around Geno nowadays is just horrible because it’s all ”insider this” or ”pattern that” or ”timeline so”. Which I guess would be fine if the actual character would also be talked about. It’s one of the reasons I’ve begun to avoid the Geno thread, even though I personally like Geno and want him in Smash. I just can’t with the speculation haha! Ridley and K. Rool found their peace so I’m just ready for the same to happen for Geno.

yeah, saying that they hijack threads was a little harsh. I think I’ve just gotten jaded over time due to instances of speculation pointing towards a Mario character, I mention Waluigi and I’m met with “wow what a meme pick, he’s never getting in”, followed by geno fans implying that Geno is a lock. It just gets a little frustrating after while

 

[AugustusB]

Y'all talking about Lloyd and Yuri and no love for Luke fon Fabre.
smh

 

[SharkLord]

Tbh I would rather have Mallow instead of Geno.

Mallow is more interesting.

If we get Mallow, I'll just ask "Why the ** is Unzan added before Reimu and why the ** is he operating solo without Ichirin and where the ** did he learn magic and WHEN THE ** DID HE GROW LEGS"

...None of you know who I'm talking about, do you?

 

[Shroob]

boi


tomorrow's gonna be fun no matter what happens.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

those 2 come from games that give much more to work with on a moveset than Geno, let alone the fact that I didn’t bring either of them up.. I’m talking about Geno here. If you think Heihachi/Isaac are as similar to brawler/sword fighter as Geno is to gunner, then more power to you I guess.

I brought up Heihachi and Isaac, because people keep saying that Geno shouldn't get in because he would be the "perfect" for a Mii Gunner costume, basically implying that being a costume would be better than being a fully playable character... despite that Mii Fighter costumes on principle have super generic movesets that don't fit any one character or game.

Geno wouldn't be the "perfect" Mii Gunner costume any more than Heihachi or Isaac would be the "perfect" Brawler and Swordfighter costumes. Mii Fighters are not perfect recreations of characters, and Geno being a costume objectively wouldn't be a better outcome than being a playable character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If I were to make a comparison, I'd say Yuri is like Tidus; Popular with the Japanese fans, but not as iconic. That being said, I don't know if Yuri's popularity is worldwide or concentrated in Japan, so I'll probably be corrected on that one.

Well, Yuri does at least have a leg up on Tidus within the comparison because he's not hated by the west.

Tbh I would rather have Mallow instead of Geno.

Mallow is more interesting.

Now I wish I got to cloud city because the idea that Mallow is interesting at all baffles me. All I've seen him do is cry a lot and cry some more when he finds out that he is in fact, not a frog because he's an idiot for believing that he was one and his father is an idiot for not telling him he's adopted sooner.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

boi


tomorrow's gonna be fun no matter what happens.

That's a lie. It's gonna be sad if things don't happen.

Sad isn't fun unless its a Hollywood movie.

 

[zumaddy]

Geno this, Waluigi that, we all know the best Mario rep

plum time

 

[AreJay25]

Man, it's gonna be real funny if all of this discussion just leads to another Partner Showcase with more riveting WWE Battlegrounds gameplay.

 

[cosmicB]

Y'all talking about Lloyd and Yuri and no love for Luke fon Fabre.
smh

I love Luke, but I don't think he'd bring much to the table. As far as Tales protagonists go, it would probably be something like Velvet>Lloyd=Ludger>Yuri>literally everyone else if we're talking purely unique moveset potential.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Well, Yuri does at least have a leg up on Tidus within the comparison because he's not hated by the west.


Now I wish I got to cloud city because the idea that Mallow is interesting at all baffles me. All I've seen him do is cry a lot and cry some more when he finds out that he is in fact, not a frog because he's an idiot for believing that he was one and his father is an idiot for not telling him he's adopted sooner.

Mallow has an actual personality and story arc that develops his character.

Geno basically just shows up, says some vague **** and doesn't do much else story wise.

 

[Guynamednelson]

not perfect recreations of characters,

And that's part of the reason why I want Isaac DLC. He isn't just a swordsman, and he has far more abilities than summoning giant hands.

 

[Karen6969]

I brought up Heihachi and Isaac, because people keep saying that Geno shouldn't get in because he would be the "perfect" for a Mii Gunner costume, basically implying that being a costume would be better than being a fully playable character... despite that Mii Fighter costumes on principle have super generic movesets that don't fit any one character or game.

Geno wouldn't be the "perfect" Mii Gunner costume any more than Heihachi or Isaac would be the "perfect" Brawler and Swordfighter costumes. Mii Fighters are not perfect recreations of characters, and Geno being a costume objectively wouldn't be a better outcome than being a playable character.

I get what you’re saying, but it still isn’t the same. They could easily give Geno an actual render as a deluxe Mii gunner costume like they did for Cuphead. Sure he wouldn’t be as unique as if he were a stand-alone character, but I think he’d be close enough to please his fans. You have to consider that he’s part of a DLC pass, and the other DLC fighters so far have been pretty damn unique and/or brought a new series in. I’m not saying that Geno has no right to be playable, I can’t stress enough that I don’t mind him at all as a character. I just think getting a different 3rd party fighter with a Geno deluxe costume is a better outcome overall for the most fans than just getting Geno.

 

[cashregister9]

Geno this, Waluigi that, we all know the best Mario rep

plum time

There is another...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

There is another...

Spoiler: Image

Smh guys. Let a proper villain take the stage.

 

[Cosmic77]

It's a shame Mallow wasn't the SMRPG character who hit it off. A character who controls the weather would've been neat.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

If our next Mario rep isn't Dr. Shadow Paper Metal Baby Tanooki Mario then what's even the point?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Smh guys. Let a proper villain take the stage.

View attachment 284308

He was hypnotized by Wario into becoming his slave one game later. You call that a proper villain?

 

[SharkLord]

And that's part of the reason why I want Isaac DLC. He isn't just a swordsman, and he has far more abilities than summoning giant hands.

Indeed. Having checked the Golden Sun wiki, I can confirm that Isaac can stone people to death with ROCKS and STONES. Can your silly little Mii Swordfighters carry out a bonafide Salem Witch Trial?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I would rather have Yuri than Lloyd, Yuri is generally a cooler character.

 

[Shroob]

That's a lie. It's gonna be sad if things don't happen.

Sad isn't fun unless its a Hollywood movie.

It's gonna be sad for King Zell and Emily more like it.

 

[cosmicB]

I mean, a character can still appeal to you even if you don't like the game or genre. I personally think a Resident Evil character would be cool but I'd rather not play any of the games: Too squeamish for the horror genre and zombies in particular (base form Nemisis-T Type is pretty cool though).

Also, crapping on turn-based RPGs seems to be the "cool" thing to do at the moment so do with that what you will.

I think there's a difference between a "that would be neat" desire for a character and a passionate "I NEED THIS CHARACTER IN" desire. I've never played a Touhou, but I think Reimu would be cool as genre and legacy indie representation. But the characters I'm passionate about, like say Monokuma, you're damn right I care about the source material. From what I've seen, Geno fans are much more the latter than the former.

Also, if you're crapping on turn-based RPGs, you're my enemy. There's a reason I haven't played FF7R yet and all those damn kids complaining about turn-based is a big reason the Square side of SQEX has basically lost me :/

 

[AugustusB]

I love Luke, but I don't think he'd bring much to the table. As far as Tales protagonists go, it would probably be something like Velvet>Lloyd=Ludger>Yuri>literally everyone else if we're talking purely unique moveset potential.

I disagree.

I could see Luke bringing an ability to drop elemental pools on the ground. And if he uses a special on it, the move changes with the element attached. EXAMPLE: Swallow dance could change to Shadow Fury with the dark element on the ground.

However, I do agree with your character placements. Velvet would be sick, but maybe not for "little boys and girls"

 

[PLATINUM7]

He was hypnotized by Wario into becoming his slave one game later. You call that a proper villain?

I don't think it's stated anywhere he was hypnotised. A Mario Encyclopedia simply states he joined Wario to get revenge on Mario.

 

[SharkLord]

It's gonna be sad for King Zell and Emily more like it.

And everyone getting optimistic for Geno would experience a Big Genoof.

 

[PacificFun]

If Geno really is revealed, I'll be really happy for his fans but also really bummed out. Geno basically kills Lara Croft's chance at being in this game. I'll probably drop out of speculation if he's confirmed to be honest.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's a shame Mallow wasn't the SMRPG character who hit it off. A character who controls the weather would've been neat.

I'd rather have Castform for something like that. It would probably execute the idea way better and it's much cuter to boot.

He was hypnotized by Wario into becoming his slave one game later. You call that a proper villain?

He...what?

I would rather have Yuri than Lloyd, Yuri is generally a

The opportunity is there. I just can't capitalize on it...So this is what suffering is.

Also, if you're crapping on turn-based RPGs, you're my enemy. There's a reason I haven't played FF7R yet and all those damn kids complaining about turn-based is a big reason the Square side of SQEX has basically lost me :/

Yeah it's pretty dumb. Like, no guys, turn-based combat is not a product of its time that hasn't aged well. You could make a case for that for random encounters, but not the combat style as a whole. There are things that it brings to the table that action combat is incapable of, and vice versa.

 

[Guynamednelson]

He...what?

The manual says Wario put the people of Mario Land (which I assume are the game's unique enemies) under his control using a spell. While this could mean Tatanga was under the same spell, the wording of the manual implies that Wario invaded while Mario was rescuing Daisy and thus Tatanga was not in Mario Land when it happened.

Of course, Mario Land and Wario having hypnotic powers were both quickly dropped after this game, so it might not even matter anyway.

 

[ZelDan]

Well seems I walked into a ****storm here. personally feelings on Geno are...very awkward.

On one hand, I am a fan of SMRPG and think the game is damn great; have probably played the game close to a dozen times over the years. geno himself I've never particurily had issue with, and him being a doll swiss army knife, but with guns instead of blades is a cool concept.

On the other hand, Geno has always seemed like a weird fit for Smash to me. Sometime early on during Smash Ultimate speculation it did occur to me that we don't have a mario rep specifically for Mario's RPGs, which made me open up a bit more to Geno, though not necessarily to the point I found him super exciting or hype or whatever. Also, as someone that used to frequent and get more involved in the Geno thread in the past, and still occasionally lurk there for ****s and giggles, I've definitely seen the ugly side of the Geno fanbase moreso than any other fanbase. Obviously not ALL Geno fans are bad or anytthing extreme or crazt like that, but I still saw enough drama and unsavory behavior that it did sour my mindset when it comes to Geno coming to Smash. I realize I shouldn;t let such stuff get to me, and as a SMRPG fan I probably should like the idea, but I dunno, my brain just be like that I guess.

IF geno actually does make it in, then, well, it is what it is. Maybe if the content is cool enough the SMRPG fan within me will reignite and maybe really get into it, who knows. All I know is IF he makes it in, I'm not looking forward to the inevitable fallout that happens and I might even have to stray from Smash forums a bit depending on how things go for sanity's sake.

So yeah those are my feelings when it comes to the gun doll being in the wacky woohoo videogame crossover.

 

[Shroob]

So that's


King Zell with his 3 rumor

Emily Rogers pretty confident that the Mario HD Collection is gonna be shown off this week



Anymore insiders wanna step up to bat? You don't have much time.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Tatanga is one of those characters that I want in Smash but I know he will never be in... if not even Warth has a chance.

Also about the 3...

Looks like Dr Mario won't be the only medic in the roster anymore.
Nah it's gonna be another Three Houses character.