Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SNEKeater]

I mean, Sonic is a big series. They could get a second and unique character. But for DLC? I strongly doubt it. If anything another Sonic character is more of a base roster thing, just like Street Fighter and Ken, for example.

If we get another SEGA series in Pass 2 I'm 100% sure it's gonna be a new series. I don't know if it would be Kiryu, SEGA has a good and cool variety of options, but it wouldn't be another Sonic rep.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Rean and Estelle - for the latter I've started a stream series of Trials in the Sky on my Twitch, but haven;t been able to continue due to time and other factors and would still like to know what makes them stand out

Haha...

I’m not a Shadow fan. I’ve always thought he was really lame & I’ve never understood why he’s so much more popular than Eggman/Tails/Knuckles. I guess it hurts that I didn’t like the Adventure games at all which is where he shines for most people.

Shadow is cool for the same reason people find sonic cool.

Sonic is whats cool in 90s
shadow is whats cool in 2000s

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Here's my thoughts on 3rd party series getting new fighters in general (Not counting Echo Fighters):

• Likely: Sonic the Hedgehog, Mega Man, Street Fighter
• Unlikely, but Still Possible: Metal Gear, Castlevania, "Persona 5", "Fatal Fury"
• Probably Not: "PAC-MAN", "Final Fantasy VII", Bayonetta, Banjo-Kazooie, Dragon Quest
• I Dunno: The one or more 3rd party series that get added in this wave of DLC

Series in quotation marks are mislabeled in my opinion since their scope is larger than the name. My perceived likelihood takes the full scope into account.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Sonic is whats cool in 90s
shadow is whats cool in 2000s

I never thought about this before but it makes complete sense.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I never thought about this before but it makes complete sense.

If you want to gain further insight...

 

[MooMew64]

Shadow's cool. His best characterization (IMO, at least) in the games, ironically, is 06. His Archie characterization was also really good once Ian Flynn took over. TBH I just like him because he has a cool design and I grew up with SADX and SA2B.

As for the actual likelihood of a Sonic fighter for DLC? Next to no chance, unfortunately. If Shadow of all characters wasn't enough of a draw for Nintendo, I doubt anyone else would be, and if any ATs are getting upgraded (which is already pretty dang unlikely), Waluigi is most likely our frontrunner for that. It's a huge shame, too: Sonic is a huge franchise with so much to pull from. Smash's current content doesn't even scratch the surface with the amount of potential movesets, stages, music, or Spirits that could be used.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I never thought about this before but it makes complete sense.

SA2 in its entirety was just everything that was cool in the 2000s similar to how the classic sonic games were appealing to western children in the 90s.

Matrix, Armageddon, Eva, Anti-Heroes, grunge, techno, rap, x-treme sports, got milk. Probaby why these games are memorable, newer sonic games dont do this anymore.

One the original ideas for Biolizard and shadow was him being lucifer the fallen angel or something crazy i forgot. Sonic dealing with the goverment and saving the president is literally stuff you'd see in a 2000s american action movie.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Surprise so many people are ranking Lara Croft's chances high on the RTC. If anything I'd think the opposite given competition with 2B, Geno, Neku, Sora, etc.

 

[7NATOR]

SA2 in its entirety was just everything that was cool in the 2000s similar to how the classic sonic games were appealing to western children in the 90s.

Matrix, Eva, Anti-Heroes, grunge, techno, rap, x-treme sports, got milk. Probaby why these games are memorable, newer sonic games dont do this anymore.

One the original ideas for Biolizard and shadow was him being lucifer the fallen angel or something crazy i forgot. Sonic dealing with the goverment and saving the president is literally stuff you'd see in a 2000s american action movie.

I've heard of Shadow's History as Terios in the creation of Shadow, I didn't know he was supposed to be Lucifer the fallen angel...

Ironically, It reminds me of that time were Tails Doll Creepypasta were popular, that Shadow was like the Holy water against Satanic Tails Doll. I remember seeing a Site based on the Church of Shadow

Shadow's cool. His best characterization (IMO, at least) in the games, ironically, is 06. His Archie characterization was also really good once Ian Flynn took over. TBH I just like him because he has a cool design and I grew up with SADX and SA2B.

As for the actual likelihood of a Sonic fighter for DLC? Next to no chance, unfortunately. If Shadow of all characters wasn't enough of a draw for Nintendo, I doubt anyone else would be, and if any ATs are getting upgraded (which is already pretty dang unlikely), Waluigi is most likely our frontrunner for that. It's a huge shame, too: Sonic is a huge franchise with so much to pull from. Smash's current content doesn't even scratch the surface with the amount of potential movesets, stages, music, or Spirits that could be used.

You know, I'm gonna be honest, While I do think Waluigi has merit, I honestly don't think he's a Frontrunner for Assist Promotion that everyone makes him out to be. at the least, I Don't think he's so far above every other Assist Trophy. I understand he got commented on by Reggie, and he's a popular character, but I don't think that alone is gonna catapult him to the front of the line...

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I've heard of Shadow's History as Terios in the creation of Shadow, I didn't know he was supposed to be Lucifer the fallen angel...

Im not entirely sure if that was accurate, it was a long time ago when i read that.
But considering sonic 06 had jesus imagery with sonic the hedgehog i wouldn't be surprised.

 

[7NATOR]

Im not entirely sure if that was accurate, it was a long time ago when i read that.
But considering sonic 06 had jesus imagery with sonic the hedgehog i wouldn't be surprised.

True, Though I don't remember Jesus getting kissed on the mouth as a Corpse to get Resurrected

Now thinking about it, I wouldn't be surprised if the idea of Shadow being an Lucifer Angel inspired part of Mephilies's Design. Just a thought

 

[MooMew64]

You know, I'm gonna be honest, While I do think Waluigi has merit, I honestly don't think he's a Frontrunner for Assist Promotion that everyone makes him out to be. at the least, I Don't think he's so far above every other Assist Trophy. I understand he got commented on by Reggie, and he's a popular character, but I don't think that alone is gonna catapult him to the front of the line...

I mean, if we're basing likelihood on differing factors such as requests, popularity, and acknowledgement from Nintendo as all being things that help, Waluigi has all three. No other AT deconfirm made headlines like his did to my knowledge.

Obviously this is just only my opinion, but if AT upgrades were on the table (I have no reason to believe they are right now, mind you), I'd say he's pretty much one of the immediate stand-outs given fan demand. Other choices are popular as well, but Waluigi had a real Ridley and K. Rool-esque outcry to his deconfirm. It doesn't mean he'd be a lock, but his odds would be pretty high up there in my opinion.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Haha...


Shadow is cool for the same reason people find sonic cool.

Sonic is whats cool in 90s
shadow is whats cool in 2000s

Honestly this makes sense & also further explains why I don’t like him. I really didn’t like ‘00s culture besides the cartoons & games of the time lmao

The 2010s were muuuuch better. I wish there a 2010s Sonic character lol

 

[cashregister9]

Sonic is whats cool in 90s
shadow is whats cool in 2000s

Zavok is cool in all times //this is a joke if it wasn't blatantly obvious

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Surprise so many people are ranking Lara Croft's chances high on the RTC. If anything I'd think the opposite given competition with 2B, Geno, Neku, Sora, etc.

I mean, Tomb Raider is a big series? It's pretty much the 3rd best selling Square Enix franchise after Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. Not that surprising she'd do well.

I'm more surprised she isn't more popular than she is in speculation considering how many people were asking for other big name 3rd Parties over the past two years.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean, Tomb Raider is a big series? It's pretty much the 3rd best selling Square Enix franchise after Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. Not that surprising she'd do well.

I'm more surprised she isn't more popular than she is in speculation considering how many people were asking for other big name 3rd Parties over the past two years.

Yeah, in terms of sleeper picks, Lara's probably the sleepiest. Heck, even I sleep on her.

...out of context that sounds so weird. lol

Anyway as far as SquarEnix picks go, I'd say that even though she's not all that popular in Japan, I think her popularity elsewhere makes her way more likely than the likes of Geno and Neku. 2B comes kinda close, though her game may be a bit too old to be included in the same vein as Joker was. And lastly Sora isn't owned by SquareEnix so there isn't even any competition there.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I wish there a 2010s Sonic character lol

I've wondered this before.
I cant thing of anything 2010 cool that works other than a super hero.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Surprise so many people are ranking Lara Croft's chances high on the RTC. If anything I'd think the opposite given competition with 2B, Geno, Neku, Sora, etc.

Well, according to Square, Tomb Raider is their 3rd of their 3 pillars. Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and Tomb Raider. That’s their 3.

So process of elimination, without the case for Geno being specifically popular in the Smash Fandom, would make Lara a no brainer. We absolutely do have to take Geno into the equation though so, really, she has 1 competitor. The puppet himself.

 

[SharkLord]

Surprise so many people are ranking Lara Croft's chances high on the RTC. If anything I'd think the opposite given competition with 2B, Geno, Neku, Sora, etc.

From the looks of it, everyone was expressing unhappiness about how underrated Lara was, so now that we're all together we take a step back and realize that maybe she's not so underrated after all.

I mean, if we're basing likelihood on differing factors such as requests, popularity, and acknowledgement from Nintendo as all being things that help, Waluigi has all three. No other AT deconfirm made headlines like his did to my knowledge.

Obviously this is just only my opinion, but if AT upgrades were on the table (I have no reason to believe they are right now, mind you), I'd say he's pretty much one of the immediate stand-outs given fan demand. Other choices are popular as well, but Waluigi had a real Ridley and K. Rool-esque outcry to his deconfirm. It doesn't mean he'd be a lock, but his odds would be pretty high up there in my opinion.

Normally, I'd rank Waluigi pretty high since I don't think ATs pose an issue. The thing is, Waluigi's just Waluigi. He's got no series to himself, no subseries, not even one specific game, nothing. For better or for worse, he's just Waluigi, and that's all he has for himself. If we were getting bonus fighters I'd rank him pretty darn high, perhaps even a 90%, but we're not, and for me that really hurts his chances.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I've wondered this before.
I cant thing of anything 2010 cool that works other than a super hero.

Well the 2010's don't really have an identity at all now that I think about it.

 

[Perkilator]

No new Spirit Event or anything tonight. Which means it'll more than likely happen tomorrow.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

But what about the issue of Tomb Raider not doing so well in Japan?

Then again being the icon she is as the female video game protagonist and being big in the 90s like Crash could help her out.

 

[7NATOR]

I've wondered this before.
I cant thing of anything 2010 cool that works other than a super hero.

There's Big the Cat, since he's the most meme character and Memes I say really hit big in 2010's.

I mean, if we're basing likelihood on differing factors such as requests, popularity, and acknowledgement from Nintendo as all being things that help, Waluigi has all three. No other AT deconfirm made headlines like his did to my knowledge.

Obviously this is just only my opinion, but if AT upgrades were on the table (I have no reason to believe they are right now, mind you), I'd say he's pretty much one of the immediate stand-outs given fan demand. Other choices are popular as well, but Waluigi had a real Ridley and K. Rool-esque outcry to his deconfirm. It doesn't mean he'd be a lock, but his odds would be pretty high up there in my opinion.

you're right

It would be foolish to Discount Waluigi completely. I just think that it's not wise to count out the other Assist Trophies though, if we're talking promotions. Other Assists like Isaac, Shadow, Skull Kid, Shovel Knight, Bomberman and others are also popular, and also do have merits over Waluigi (I mean for one, they don't come from Franchises that already got 2 New characters and a new stage, and they are more relevant to their overall franchise). That's all I'm saying

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Well, according to Square, Tomb Raider is their 3rd of their 3 pillars. Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and Tomb Raider. That’s their 3.

So process of elimination, without the case for Geno being specifically popular in the Smash Fandom, would make Lara a no brainer. We absolutely do have to take Geno into the equation though so, really, she has 1 competitor. The puppet himself.

What about Sora? He's probably way more demanded tbh and probably the current most requested character since Banjo's, K. Rool's and Ridley's inclusions.

 

[Gazorpazorpfield]

Well the 2010's don't really have an identity at all now that I think about it.

tbh the 2010's seemed more about dialing back the over-the-top cool business of the 90's and Aughts, in favor of a more lighthearted tone. The best example I can think of is Marvel's success with camp, jokes and character development, while the 'cooler' DC was laughed at for being too edgy. Spawn was 90's excess, Batman was 2000's grit, and Spiderman was 10's goofiness. either that or the whole decade was just memes idk

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What about Sora? He's probably way more demanded tbh and probably the current most requested character since Banjo's, K. Roo's and Ridley's inclusions.

The rights negotiations would be with Disney, not SquareEnix. There isn't any competition between them.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

Shadow's cool. His best characterization (IMO, at least) in the games, ironically, is 06. His Archie characterization was also really good once Ian Flynn took over.

Shadow is just Vegeta. That's why I like him

 

[Michael the Spikester]

The rights negotiations would be with Disney, not SquareEnix. There isn't any competition between them.

Last I check Disney was on board or at the very least ok with Sora being in Smash. Though they own the rights, it still comes down to Nomura's decision to have him be added.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well the 2010's don't really have an identity at all now that I think about it.

I could be wrong, but perhaps it isn't remembered for anything because it isn't old enough to be considered history to most people. I mean, it's only 2020, the people who haven't been alive in the 2010's aren't even a year old, and the people too young to remember it are like, 5.

 

[SharkLord]

Well the 2010's don't really have an identity at all now that I think about it.

depends on what way we look at it. If we look at it positively, it's the decade of growth, acceptance, and advancement. If we look at it negatively, it's the era of obnoxious memes and political ****shows, among other things.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Well the 2010's don't really have an identity at all now that I think about it.

Yea

The quality of consumer **** in every entertainment medium just went into **** super hard

Video games were getting hardcore exploited with super hard with dlc, bad movie reboots, social media becoming a massive **** hole for discussions, etc.

probably all pinpoints back to 9/11 and 2008 economic crisis.

2020 is already starting off badly and the consequences will seep through like poison as time moves forward.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

...

I think we should change topics now...

Speaking of dead franchises, what do you guys want to see come back? Apparently, there are rumors of one being announced next Direct, but that's assuming the next Direct is a thing.

This would be less "dead franchise coming back" and more "undead franchise being given an actual chance", but...

Spoiler

Here's to hoping that Capcom's current redemption arc allows one of their most underrated franchises to finally make a big comeback... you know, besides just the usual cameos, ports, and crossover appearances.

 

[Perkilator]

Yea

The quality of consumer ** in every entertainment medium just went into ** super hard

Video games were getting hardcore exploited with super hard with dlc, bad movie reboots, social media becoming a massive **** hole for discussions, etc.

Not to mention that kids' cartoons (particularly in the filthy west) were locked in the "hurhurhur random = funny" mindset.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Last I check Disney was on board or at the very least ok with Sora being in Smash. Though they own the rights, it still comes down to Nomura's decision to have him be added.

That doesn't mean there wouldn't be negotiations to have though. Even if they were on board with it, the only rights holders that would be like "sure, go ahead and use it no strings attached and no royalties necessary" would be a solo indie dev...maybe.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Darkstalkers is long overdue for a reboot. I'd certainly buy it because I like the aspect of it as a fighting game revolving around mythical creatures and a horror vibe to it.

 

[chocolatejr9]

This would be less "dead franchise coming back" and more "undead franchise being given an actual chance", but...

Spoiler

Here's to hoping that Capcom's current redemption arc allows one of their most underrated franchises to finally make a big comeback... you know, besides just the usual cameos, ports, and crossover appearances.

I mean, Akira from Rival Schools is coming to SFV. I know that's not what you're looking for, but it gives some hope for Darkstalkers. You know, make that crossover comic canon or something.

Though I don't even know how a Darkstalkers character would work Smash, much less in Street Fighter...

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Not to mention that kids' cartoons (particularly in the filthy west) were locked in the "hurhurhur random = funny" mindset.

Wealthy LA animators who had their rich parents pay millions for their art school have complete control over animation now so its not surprising that it turned bad.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I mean, Akira from Rival Schools is coming to SFV. I know that's not what you're looking for, but it gives some hope for Darkstalkers. You know, make that crossover comic canon or something.

Though I don't even know how a Darkstalkers character would work Smash, much less in Street Fighter...

The recent Street Fighter V DLC reveals, as well as Yoshinori Ono leaving Capcom this year, look to me like good signs for Darkstalkers (the latter somewhat ironically, since Ono was one of the only people at Capcom who expressed any interest in reviving the series). Again, most of Capcom's been going through a bit of a redemption arc lately (Monster Hunter World, Mega Man 11, Devil May Cry V, the Resident Evil games since VII), and it seems like their fighting game division is now starting to go through the same thing, which will hopefully mean Darkstalkers will get another chance.

As for a Darkstalkers character in Smash, for what it's worth, I did try and make a fan moveset for Morrigan.

 

[cosmicB]

Last I check Disney was on board or at the very least ok with Sora being in Smash. Though they own the rights, it still comes down to Nomura's decision to have him be added.

I'm pretty sure this isn't true. They ask Nomura out of respect for stuff like this, but if they wanted to, they could totally bypass him and do whatever they wanted with Sora. Disney has full ownership of all original KH characters IIRC.

Of course were it to actually happen, yes, Nomura would most definitely be involved. Nintendo and Disney execs would work out all the paperwork and then Nomura and Sakurai (and the rest of the team) would work together to figure out how to make things work for Sora. I really can't imagine a scenario where Nomura would refuse unless he specifically said "put Neku in instead".

 

[SpectreJordan]

But what about the issue of Tomb Raider not doing so well in Japan?

Then again being the icon she is as the female video game protagonist and being big in the 90s like Crash could help her out.

I don’t think that’s as big of a deal as people think it is. If Nintendo wants to work with a company & they bring up a big character like that, then they’ll make it happen. I doubt they’d look at Tomb Raider’s impact & huge sales then go “Yeah but she’s not that well known in Japan. So despite being a huge series with 77 mil sales that would do wonders for marketing in the West, we’re gonna pass”.

Sakurai seems well versed enough in the entire gaming sphere that he’d know a character like that’s impact too. I imagine he’d be a fan of some of the bigger western icons too. He showed a bit of his collection off a couple years ago & it had some modern western games like Star Wars: Battlefront 2015. So he definitely doesn’t thumb his nose at western stuff.

Nintendo didn’t really care that Dragon Quest has little presence outside of Japan. Infact, they even used Smash to promote it in the West; the reverse could happen for a third party that’s not popular in Japan. Plus, we’ve already gotten Nintendo characters that Japan hasn’t cared about like Little Mac & Ridley.